Another fatal dog attack

[skinnydipper]

They could tick along nicely with no problem then something will trigger that instinct.

The husband of the woman attacked in her garden by the dog she adopted from the Dogs Trust said:

“We don’t know what set him off,

He showed no signs of aggression whatsoever. He just didn’t seem like that sort of dog.

He loved my wife to bits and would sit on the sofa with her resting his head in her lap.

We just don’t understand why he did it and we never will. Something must have triggered him.”

 

[SilverLinings]

The husband of the woman attacked in her garden by the dog she adopted from the Dogs Trust said:

“We don’t know what set him off,”

“He showed no signs of aggression whatsoever. He just didn’t seem like that sort of dog.

“He loved my wife to bits and would sit on the sofa with her resting his head in her lap.

“We just don’t understand why he did it and we never will. Something must have triggered him.”

Those sorts of things seem to be said by the owners in a lot of the reports of XLB attacks. Although some owners may be lying (to avoid bearing any responsibility for a dog they already knew was dangerous), I would have thought the majority are not which adds to the concern about the breed. If they don't (or rarely) show aggressive tendencies prior to a serious attack then there is no way to keep them safely as family pets, or to allow them off-lead or un-muzzled in public. Even with a very knowledgeable and experienced adult owner there would still be a significant risk that they may at some point be attacked.

It is difficult to know how much of what owners report post-attack is true, and in some cases they may be telling it how they see it but the dog may have been giving off obvious signals that the owner was too unknowledgeable to read. As there are such a relatively high number of attacks there does seem to be an issue with this particular breed though. It is a shame there isn't data on the breeding of the dogs who carry out attacks to look for a genetic component, as there do appear to be some well-adjusted examples of the breed.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I think carrying a knife makes sense. After all, as horse owners, it is perfectly reasonable that we would have a knife on our person.

Opening bales of hay, cutting through rogue bits of electric fence, opening feed bags, hacking shreds out of dangerous dogs that are trying to kill us.... the list goes on.

If it wasn’t so sad, it’d be funny.

 

[twiggy2]

https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2023-10-20/charity-which-rehomed-dog-which-mauled-owner-stops-taking-in-xl-bullies

Dogs trust have stopped taking in xl bullies.

The title is misleading I think as u have read the article which says they won't be homing then not that they won't take them in.

 

[Chucho]

BTW the dog parks in the US look like terrifying places .

We are in Canada but it isn't dissimilar. There are dog parks and then there are dog parks. Some are small confined spaces, others are just places that are unfenced where you can let your dog off leash during a walk. Some are designated for small dogs only. The worst ones are in tourist areas with on lead restrictions - putting a load of slightly stressed dogs due to being away from home in a confined unfamiliar space together because people can't be bothered with exercising them properly is a recipe for disaster. And disasters did happen. But not as frequently as the subject of this thread!

It's not my thing. Our dogs are intact and dogs here are not so used to intact dogs. Neutering normally still happens at a very young age here. Ours are very well socialized, but not necessarily tolerant of dogs that have no social skills (the so-called 'friendly' ones... they generally wonder WTF they're doing and why they do not respond to social cues) and I do not see why I should subject them to those kinds of interactions. They have friends that we visit with for play dates. Even when we lived in an apartment, we wouldn't take them to the dog park. Rather do enrichment games in the house and take lots of walks every day.

It takes a lot of effort to train a dog into a pleasant on lead walking companion and give them all the enrichment they need in the large cities here, I can see why people don't bother and go to the dog park instead.

 

[Ratface]

I got a new-to-me car recently. I put in my usual "animal emergency" kit. Large multi-tool penknife. A long piece of baler twine. Dog slip lead with narrow gauge rope. Dually headcollar with snap lead rope attached. Litter-picking stick. Anything else that I should add? Living in the sticks, and sometimes coming across random loose animals, I like to think that I could deal with most situations. However, I'm not as strong as I was, due to old age and a slight degree of infirmity. Suggestions?

 

[skinnydipper]

The title is misleading I think as u have read the article which says they won't be homing then not that they won't take them in.

The charity said it "immediately" stopped promoting the breed for adoption after the government announced a ban in September.

It added it has also "made the difficult decision to pause the intake of dogs suspected to be an American Bully XL-type".

 

[Ratface]

PS. Also, I have a large medical bag with human stuff in, so plenty of bandages, pads, surgical tape etc.

 

[CorvusCorax]

A knife is an offensive weapon, the police won't care why you're carrying it, if you're caught with it in public.

 

[Chucho]

I'm not sure a knife is defensible or even practical. Fighting dogs are not stationary, it's often pretty fast paced. I'd probably end up stabbing myself instead. We carry a sturdy walking stick and bring a big rock with us here as well as bear spray as we are in coyote/cougar/bear country. We get stalked by coyotes on walks at least once a year and that is what the rock is for.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Selling, buying and carrying knives and weapons

The laws on selling, buying and carrying a knife or weapon depend on the type of knife or weapon, your age and your circumstances.

www.gov.uk

You can carry a ‘folding pocket knife‘ aka penknife that:

• have a cutting edge no longer than 3 inches
• are not lock knives (they do not have a button, spring or catch that you have to use to fold the knife)

I don’t fancy my chances in taking on an XL bully armed with a penknife

 

[Jenko109]

The law is open to interpretation. Some knives that do have a longer cutting blade can be carried if you have a good reason to be carrying it.

It would be up to a court to determine if your reason is considered to be a good one.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

It's fine for rescues/shelters/whatever entities to stop taking in XL Bully's, but there still needs to be some form of resource out there, and maybe some vets or shelters are providing it, I don't know.

The resource would be euthanasia, really.

Sucks to euthanise a dog because of breed/type when the dog hasn't demonstrated any bad or aggressive behavior yet, but to what extent is it just a matter of time?

I'm sure not every single XL Bully type will attack in it's life time, but they're probably the minority.

I don't believe that many of the dogs attack out of nowhere, unless they are completely just not wired right. Or are hell bent on dominance.

Some signs are subtle and your margin of error with a XL Bully is probably very small. Some probably treat them the same they would a Labrador or other pet dog, for example, and you can't.

A dog with such a hair trigger has no business in society and is no dog for the average owner. Even a professional would have to be extremely precise, careful, and could possibly run into the same issues.

There are tons of guardian breeds out there in homes across the UK, US, and EU that possess guarding instinct, but don't seem to be on this level or are more trainable so they don't get to that point, maybe.

It's sad that it's gotten to this point, and I do wonder about a genetic component. I also wonder about temperament testing. I bet close to none of these dogs or their relatives have been tested.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

The law is open to interpretation. Some knives that do have a longer cutting blade can be carried if you have a good reason to be carrying it.

It would be up to a court to determine if your reason is considered to be a good one.

In the current climate, most people with common sense would determine the reason of potential self defense/personal protection against animal or human threats to be reasonable. The court however..

Edit: no gamble here! See the next posts. Removed so people don't get ideas.

 

[ycbm]

In the current climate, most people with common sense would determine the reason of potential self defense/personal protection against animal or human threats to be reasonable. However, it's still a gamble in court and might not hold up.

No gamble in the UK, you are definitely not allowed to carry any kind of offensive weapon in public in case of a need for self defense, particularly not a knife.


From the CPS guidelines

Intended by the person having it with him for use for causing injury to the person. This definition includes defensively as well as offensively.

I don't think stating that your intention was to use it on a dog will be a defence.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

No gamble in the UK, you are definitely not allowed to carry any kind of offensive weapon in case of a need for self defense.

I figured you'd reply

That's what I had thought, but the post I responded to made me question that thought.

 

[conniegirl]

A knife is an offensive weapon, the police won't care why you're carrying it, if you're caught with it in public.

Depends on your reason for having it.
When we are reenacting we carry some fairly hefty knives all perfectly legally.

We also carry them to and from events

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Edit: see next post

 

[CanteringCarrot]

"Self-defence or self-protection are not valid reasons for carrying a knife or offensive weapon..."


There it is.


Other reasons however...

 

[SilverLinings]

It's fine for rescues/shelters/whatever entities to stop taking in XL Bully's, but there still needs to be some form of resource out there, and maybe some vets or shelters are providing it, I don't know.

The resource would be euthanasia, really.

Sucks to euthanise a dog because of breed/type when the dog hasn't demonstrated any bad or aggressive behavior yet, but to what extent is it just a matter of time?

I don't believe that many of the dogs attack out of nowhere, unless they are completely just not wired right. Or are hell bent on dominance.

Some signs are subtle and your margin of error with a XL Bully is probably very small. Some probably treat them the same they would a Labrador or other pet dog, for example, and you can't.

A dog with such a hair trigger has no business in society and is no dog for the average owner. Even a professional would have to be extremely precise, careful, and could possibly run into the same issues.

I find it really sad that there are a lot of dogs suffering in this. There are ones who are kept and looked after poorly and were just bought as status symbols, and there are ones who will be euthanised because their owners are too lazy to register them and buy (and use) a lead and muzzle.

There are already far, far too many dog owners of 'easy' breeds like labs who treat their dogs like unfeeling objects with no needs. Dogs who don't get walked, who get shouted at, get mixed signals regarding 'acceptable' behaviour, who are hit, not fed correctly, not provided with company, not given medical treatment. Add into the mix a dog that will stand up for itself and is big enough to overpower a human and it's a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I find it really sad that there are a lot of dogs suffering in this. There are ones who are kept and looked after poorly and were just bought as status symbols, and there are ones who will be euthanised because their owners are too lazy to register them and buy (and use) a lead and muzzle.

There are already far, far too many dog owners of 'easy' breeds like labs who treat their dogs like unfeeling objects with no needs. Dogs who don't get walked, who get shouted at, get mixed signals regarding 'acceptable' behaviour, who are hit, not fed correctly, not provided with company, not given medical treatment. Add into the mix a dog that will stand up for itself and is big enough to overpower a human and it's a disaster waiting to happen.

Yeah, it is sad whenever a animal has to suffer. I know these dogs can be or are aggressive and/or deadly, but that's all because we, as humans (not us, as in HHO exactly) made them that way. We bred them. We bought them. We sold them. So it comes back to the idiots.

There are definitely different levels of tolerance and/or "user friendliness" when it comes to dogs.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I've never seen any excuse, including hunting/rabbiting etc, fly, which is why I wrote what I wrote, but good luck to anyone who wants to give it a bash

 

[CanteringCarrot]

No gamble in the UK, you are definitely not allowed to carry any kind of offensive weapon in public in case of a need for self defense, particularly not a knife.


From the CPS guidelines



I don't think stating that your intention was to use it on a dog will be a defence.

Just saw your edit and I agree.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I've never seen any excuse, including hunting/rabbiting etc, fly, which is why I wrote what I wrote, but good luck to anyone who wants to give it a bash

I've not looked up all of the case law, and I'm not willing to try it.

 

[splashgirl45]

So many people don’t seem to be able to read dog signs. I watched the dog house Australia today and a dog had its tail between its legs and was stiff and the potential adopters were unaware that she was uncomfortable with them petting her quite rigorously and I was expecting her to snap, luckily the handler came back in and calmed things down and they did adopt the dog and it was ok… now this was a small dog that could have bitten but unlikely to kill you. Would be interesting to see how many of the XL bully attacks have been in the home or attacking their owner … so many of the social media posts with this sort of dog and babies make me cringe as the dogs signals don’t seem particularly sweet to me…

 

[AmyMay]

The title is misleading I think as u have read the article which says they won't be homing then not that they won't take them in.

“It added it has also "made the difficult decision to pause the intake of dogs suspected to be an American Bully XL-type".

 

[Chucho]

The problem with photos of dogs and children is that it can be the camera that dogs are uncomfortable about. It's then obviously not ideal to put the child and dog in that situation. But they're not necessarily uncomfortable with the proximity to the child.

I can only speak for my own child/dog interactions and say that from about 6 months old our daughter figured out that she could interact with the dogs and get them to do things (e.g. attract their attention by offering food [face palm]). We have never encouraged their interactions but they are monitored closely. Where we can manage the environment to so that we are able to limit them entirely (e.g. meal times!) we do. But she has definitely gone about building her own relationships with each dog very deliberately. We guide her on how to interact in a safe way that is positive for the dogs. Now, at almost 2 she is about ready to start giving them commands. It's been a really special and unexpected journey to watch. I would not plaster it all over social media, and I'm certainly not saying it's ok to do this with XLBs, but I can understand how the dog-child interactions give people (and the children) pleasure.

 

[Goldenstar]

It’s not illegal to carry a pocket knife ( the type that folds ) I do a lot of the time because I just forget I have it .
Not sure it would get you very far mind .

 

[skinnydipper]

Five-year-old in hospital with serious injuries after dog attack

Emergency services were called to Maple Street in Ashington following a report that a Staffordshire Bull Terrier had injured a child

www.chroniclelive.co.uk

 

[skinnydipper]

Young boy seriously injured after being attacked by dog in Coventry

He was taken to University Hospital Coventry

www.coventrytelegraph.net