Boggle update

[Northern]

So sorry to hear this about Boggle, hopefully it's a relatively easy fix. I am going through the same with my TB, I can understand the frantic research and feeling downtrodden.

 

[ester]

I guess because PRP often works best with a defined ‘hole’ and no one knows yet if there is any damage let alone what it looks like.

 

[ForeverBroke_]

I guess because PRP often works best with a defined ‘hole’ and no one knows yet if there is any damage let alone what it looks like.

Ah fair enough. Mine didn't have a hole either, but to be fair I threw so much at him I've not got a clue which one actually got him sound!

 

[ester]

We used it on ours with a front lesion, and it was commented that they didn’t know it would work as not that clear a hole. She had it as on insurance that we didn’t want to spend on anything else anyway.

 

[milliepops]

Yeah Millie had it on a check lig as a obvious hole but it was not recommended for Kira's SDFT as nothing obvious to put it in.

 

[FourLeafClover]

Mine’s suspensories scanned as completely normal, but blocked positively to them twice which cemented diagnosis. On follow up my vet was saying he would re scan them ? But when I reminded him they were normal to start with he agreed there wasn’t much point.

 

[Ambers Echo]

So so sorry Michen. Poor Bog. Poor you
Not offering any advice on what I would/wouldn't do as I think you are best guided by a trusted vet and your own very good instincts. But just want to send a million hugs and bucket loads of healing vibes. Xxxxx

 

[Roxylola]

Oh I'm so sorry this is the outcome. If you are insured I'd chuck full diagnostics at it and go from there. As it's a sort of longstanding thing I wonder if he tweaked something and has just been sort of mostly ok on it since except when under pressure as opposed to it being like a repetitive strain injury which you'd expect for something working mostly on surfaces hence it not really getting worse or better on it's own.
I dunno I'm only speculating really. Hoping for an obvious and easy to fix issue on investigation for you

 

[Bernster]

Buggeration, that is all I can say!

 

[Michen]

Thanks everyone sorry for the lack of reply! Not much more I can say until I have more info on Wednesday really.

I will continue with the diagnostics, he “should” be insured (unless the insurance try and say it could be directly or indirectly related to seedy toe in the same hind 3 years ago... as per my exclusion).

 

[Wheels]

Sending you good vibes for Wednesday x I hope it is better news than you are expecting

 

[Michen]

Actually, on that, would you be worried by that wording? I’m not sure what it actually means to say conditions are excluded relating directly or indirectly to the right hind seedy toe..I assumed he was insured but maybe they will try and wriggle out of it and say the resection destabilised the hoof and caused the issue blah blah blah.

That would be the icing on the cake...

 

[FourLeafClover]

Actually, on that, would you be worried by that wording? I’m not sure what it actually means to say conditions are excluded relating directly or indirectly to the right hind seedy toe..I assumed he was insured but maybe they will try and wriggle out of it and say the resection destabilised the hoof and caused the issue blah blah blah.

That would be the icing on the cake...

I think it’s unlikely they would try to say it could be related, but even if they did you can expect your vet to put a case forward saying how the two are very separate. Had this with mine, too. Not seedy toe though, but a sacroiliac/pelvic strain.

 

[Michen]

I think it’s unlikely they would try to say it could be related, but even if they did you can expect your vet to put a case forward saying how the two are very separate. Had this with mine, too. Not seedy toe though, but a sacroiliac/pelvic strain.

Thanks. It’s not the end of the world if he’s not insured but it would be nice given I’m sure by the end of diagnostics the bill will be nearing a grand before doing anything else!

Btw FLC, where did your horse have surgery? If I was ever to consider it for any reason I think I’d be taking him to rossdales.

 

[FourLeafClover]

He was done at our ‘local’ big vets which is about 45 minutes away. They are very well respected in the area and just recently added a standing MRI unit to their diagnostic kit which is pretty cool. The vet that did it though came either from Rossdales or the other big Newmarket practice - I think his name was Richard Payne? My vet and the nurses assured me that he’s the PSD surgery guru ?

 

[hihosilver]

I keep wracking my brains after what Rowreach posted. I have a vague vague memory of a back leg possibly going down a hole when out with the RA... but just can’t remember, the days all morph into one...argh!

Vaguely remember you taking a tumble and him getting stuck out hunting? could he have pulled something then? apologies if i am mistaken. Good luck x

 

[Michen]

Vaguely remember you taking a tumble and him getting stuck out hunting? could he have pulled something then? apologies if i am mistaken. Good luck x

He jumped into a bog, I slid off him so he could get himself out. He had started doing the disuniting well before then.

 

[Michen]

So my vet who is senior VP of the RCVS has seen one of these injuries before in his career. Straight sesamoidean ligament. It took 3.5 hours this morning for us to find the issue. Blocking Boggle was not easy as he needed multiple lots of aneasthetic to loose sensation but stood like a trooper.

We got an immediate positive block on the disuniting jumping to the area. Still block high suspensory to be sure. X rayed fetlocks, scanned suspensories incase and then found the issue. There are some adhesions and it does look minor but it’s clearly bothering him for him to so positively block with the jumping.

I googled it (bad idea)- guarded to poor prognosis. Vet is going to consult with surgeon to work out a conservative treatment plan but it’s almost definitely going to be a long period of box rest (initial thoughts 12 weeks, then a further 12 in the field). My vet actually suggest I continue to hack him in walk from the box but he’s so bonkers to hack at the moment there’s no way it will be feasible so we will need to come up with a plan.

Not sure how I feel. I’m very relieved it’s not the suspensories but a bit shocked having just googled the prognosis. It’s such a rare injury it seems there’s nothing black and white. Either way he’s had this for nearly six months minimum and there is scar tissue and adhesions so there’s a possibility it may need surgery to clean it up (but that will be an end of the road option). Feel a bit shit I didn’t catch it sooner and cringing when I think of the hunting and massive hedges he’s jumped since then.

Apparently the sort of injury you get from a knock.

So I think it’s good news in some ways and bad in others... not sure. But I am super relieved it’s not chronic PSD and that we got a diagnosis.

 

[Roxylola]

Knowing is always better than not knowing. You could easily have put it down to schooling and continued so well done for being so proactive about investigating it and all. Equally it sounds like there is literally nothing you could have done to prevent this if it likely came from a knock and it really is just unlucky - in that respect it is much better than suspensories.

He sounds like a super dude and I am rooting for a full recovery

 

[chaps89]

A huge well done to you in pushing for a diagnosis.
I prefer vets who are realistic about treatment options when the horse hasn't read the manual and won't do/cope with what you'd want them to - luckily it sounds like your vet is that way inclined.
Very best of luck getting him patched up and back on the road.

 

[OldNag]

I suspect many people would not have known there was a problem at all until it got far worse.
Just a thought - if he won't box rest well and your vet is advising walk hacking during box rest, would it not be an option to just turn away for box and field rest?

Mine did not cope well with box rest (suspensory) and with hindsight I wonder if we'd just turned away for a few months we'd have ended up with the same result.

 

[Michen]

My vet is super. As an alternative he’s suggesting maybe a yard with a horse walker. Sadly my insurance defo doesn’t cover expensive rehab yards.. I think I’ll take my chances on in hand walking him as want to keep him looked after by me unless he becomes really difficult. He’s box rested for about 2/3 weeks very well but 3 months...

 

[Michen]

I suspect many people would not have known there was a problem at all until it got far worse.
Just a thought - if he won't box rest well and your vet is advising walk hacking during box rest, would it not be an option to just turn away for box and field rest?

Mine did not cope well with box rest (suspensory) and with hindsight I wonder if we'd just turned away for a few months we'd have ended up with the same result.

So at the moment he feels strongly there needs to be a period of controlled immobilisation, aka box rest, followed by field rest. I’m not a box rest fan either but I do think Boggle will do it ok but hacking him at walk is not an option or long reining etc he’s far too fresh and sharp. Walking in hand around concreted yard would be doable.

 

[DressageCob]

I'm just catching up on this. Sorry you didn't get better news, but I'm super impressed by your vets being able to find the problem, since it seemed very subtle. I hope the box rest is not as long as you fear.
I know someone who felt that the Arc Equine helped with a ligament recovery. I've never used it but it has amazing reviews online.

 

[ycbm]

Well done on even spotting there was a problem, Michen, hes a lucky horse.

If it helps, I once owned a TB who had pulled a sesamoid ligament right off the sesamoid bone on a hind. He had a year's rest and retired from racing, when I bought him, but it never gave me a moment's problem.

Fingers crossed.

.

 

[OldNag]

So at the moment he feels strongly there needs to be a period of controlled immobilisation, aka box rest, followed by field rest. I’m not a box rest fan either but I do think Boggle will do it ok but hacking him at walk is not an option or long reining etc he’s far too fresh and sharp. Walking in hand around concreted yard would be doable.

It's a pain isn't it. Mine hated being away from his friends while on box rest and I ended up moving him so he didn't have that stress. When we graduated from box rest we did several weeks of in hand walking and he coped surprisingly well with that (he's a very forward pony). It took months for him to become sound (it seemed like forever) but he's been sound for nearly 18 months now so it was worth it.

Boggle is darn lucky to have an attentive owner like you. Most would never have spotted that at all.

 

[AmyMay]

I had a horse do her sesamoid ligament. She came back absolutely sound on it xx

 

[Michen]

I had a horse do her sesamoid ligament. She came back absolutely sound on it xx

Was it the SSL? Not sure if that makes a difference. How did you treat it? Xx

 

[Michen]

It's a pain isn't it. Mine hated being away from his friends while on box rest and I ended up moving him so he didn't have that stress. When we graduated from box rest we did several weeks of in hand walking and he coped surprisingly well with that (he's a very forward pony). It took months for him to become sound (it seemed like forever) but he's been sound for nearly 18 months now so it was worth it.

Boggle is darn lucky to have an attentive owner like you. Most would never have spotted that at all.

I’m feeling really shit though that he’s been working so hard on it hunting etc. If I had literally had a few more sj lessons in Oct/nov this would have been picked up on within weeks not months. Bloody hope I’ve not ruined his chance of recovery from carrying on...

 

[AmyMay]

Was it the SSL? Not sure if that makes a difference. How did you treat it? Xx

Not sure ?. It was a front leg, if that makes any difference. 6 weeks box rest, then 3 weeks walking under saddle before she could be turned out.