Boggle- USA bound!

[ycbm]

He could easily have got lyme in the UK and that's just a bad. There's strangles a mile away from my yard, too. Shit things happen, it's not your fault.

 

[YourValentine]

Hey team Bog

We had our vet follow up today and she is thrilled with his progress. He is now a grade 1/almost nothing behind, and a grade 1/2 in front. We are even more suspicious now that it's EPM, apparently the ataxia being more apparent in front fits more with EPM than a neck issue. Also the fact he's holding his tail to one side, the history (pneumonia, etc). It's so DAMN unlucky I can't believe fricking believe it and I'm still devastated (and vet does still think the chances of a full recovery are still small- aka to being ridden again).. but I do think this is a better option than it being his neck.

So we continue with the crazy expensive per month EPM medication and the vet wants me to start doing some poles, in hand work etc to help rehab him a bit. I think even if he can't ever be safely ridden, I should still be able to keep him busy/occupied and happy. I hope.

And who knows, he's already surprised her at his level of improvement. Let's hope he can be one of those miracles, again.

I went to the new barn to set up his stable today, here's a pic of it! He should love the run though I feel for the horse next to him (he doesn't have one on the other side and if he's too much of a monster, I'll put a space between them). Going to move him on friday.

Oh and a cute Pepper/Bog pic from last night

View attachment 126297
View attachment 126298

I was just wondering if he'd had his 2 week checkup.

Delighted to hear the vet can see the improvements you've seen.

I know he is not 100%, but try to remember how far he has come, and don't give up hope yet. The next bit of improvement might be frustratingly slow, but he IS improving beyond expectation.

I love the new barn set up, common in Aus, and the horses seem to like the choice to stand out in the pouring rain instead of in their nice dry stable

 

[Michen]

He could easily have got lyme in the UK and that's just a bad. There's strangles a mile away from my yard, too. Shit things happen, it's not your fault.

I know.. it just sucks. I guess the grief of never sitting on him again will be hard to come to terms with.

I was just wondering if he'd had his 2 week checkup.

Delighted to hear the vet can see the improvements you've seen.

I know he is not 100%, but try to remember how far he has come, and don't give up hope yet. The next bit of improvement might be frustratingly slow, but he IS improving beyond expectation.

I love the new barn set up, common in Aus, and the horses seem to like the choice to stand out in the pouring rain instead of in their nice dry stable

A very good point I will keep at it and do as thorough neuro rehab as I can! And yes, love the runs- so great for them

 

[FlyingCircus]

Speaking from experience of having an 8 yr old who I retired earlier this year, the grief and loss of never riding again and never achieving the goals I'd set out was a lot easier to cope with than I expected after I thought I was going to lose her to colic last year.

It sucks, of course it does. But she's still alive and ultimately that bit has cemented itself as most important bit. Sometimes I feel a bit of sadness at the what could have been, but I'm sure she doesn't give a damn as she's living the life of riley on my dime in a nice field with her friends.

Glad to see Bog is on the up!

 

[Michen]

Speaking from experience of having an 8 yr old who I retired earlier this year, the grief and loss of never riding again and never achieving the goals I'd set out was a lot easier to cope with than I expected after I thought I was going to lose her to colic last year.

It sucks, of course it does. But she's still alive and ultimately that bit has cemented itself as most important bit. Sometimes I feel a bit of sadness at the what could have been, but I'm sure she doesn't give a damn as she's living the life of riley on my dime in a nice field with her friends.

Glad to see Bog is on the up!

I'm sorry about your mare and relieved you didn't lose her, it's hard though isn't it. I've had 7 years of fun and adventures with Boggle and I'm so sad we probably won't get more american ones but like you say, the relief of feeling like you won't lose them does put that into perspective.

I love him for so much more than just being the most fun horse ever to ride though- he will continue to be treated like the king he is and whilst he may not be safe to ride, there's nothing to stop me long reining and doing in hand work etc to keep him happy and busy. Maybe one day I'll get a sensible quarter horse and pony Boggle off him so he can still come on adventures

 

[Michen]

I'll be honest with you guys because I know I've just posted about the "joy" that is, not having to have put Boggle to sleep- yet at least.

I've never suffered from depression (that I know of), but the absolute hardest moments of my life have been because of horses and mostly- Boggle. I am sat in the airport currently just reading, reading, reading about one of the possible causes of the latest heartache re EPM. Trawling through every paper there is, organizing consultations, buying "balance pads" and other things to aid rehab. Organizing electroacupuncture- whatever the heck that is.

I've been in a constant state of anxiety for 3- 4 weeks. Actually probably months. That sick to your stomach feeling. My life has literally been waiting, researching, medicating, praying that Boggle will be ok. Swinging from happy that he can live and live well to devastated that I will likely never ride him again. Living at the yard, with him 16 hours a day.

It's only since going on a 19 hour work trip (orchestrated to be there and back in as quick a time possible) that I feel like I've come out of this "bubble" that is trying to fix him. And I'm wondering how healthy that can possibly be. I've got the chance to re route on that dive trip that I was meant to be on until he got sick, but I'm terrified, literally terrified, to leave him in two weeks time. And again over Christmas, supposed to be in Australia. How can I be on the other side of the world to him? It's not exactly easy to get back to.

At what point do you choose "life" over your horse? Do I hang around for the next few months and put any fun travel on hold, just in case? When he got pneumonia and was in hospital, I did go on a fun trip- because he was in ISO and I genuinely didn't feel like there was anything I could do. He got out of ISO a few days before I returned and when I got back and went to visit him I felt like a criminal for having left him in the first place.

 

[Cowpony]

Michen, you've been so strong over the last few weeks, I'm afraid this reaction was bound to happen sooner or later. Take some time to look after yourself. I think you are starting to get some perspective as you are asking this question. You don't need anybody's permission to enjoy yourself or take some time off. Boggle has improved hugely. As long as you are happy that he's well looked after its fine to take some time for yourself. And you probably should.

 

[AmyMay]

Michen, only you can answer the questions you’ve posed in relation to your own situation.

Personally I couldn’t put myself in the financial situation you’ve been in, let alone the mental anxiety. Neither, to my mind, are healthy.

But I appreciate that these are individual considerations.

For what it’s worth, I think you should do the planned trips, with clear instructions to your yard that if he has another crisis he’s euthanised. (I appreciate that this may be controversial).

 

[nagblagger]

Going to give you a reality check so sorry if it sounds a little harsh.
If Boggle is ill whether you are there or not what difference does it make to him, either way you will be able to make the most sensible decision with the facts available at the time.
You must trust the people who are looking after him or you wouldn't be leaving him there and he knows them, have an open and honest conversation with them.
Then, for your mental well being, go on holiday knowing he is being looked after and recharge your batteries.

 

[expanding_horizon]

I think you need a couple of weeks staying local to settle him into new yard, then he should be fine to leave. I don’t think his past health crises make him any more likely to have future urgent vet issues. And you can probably support him best long term by some time away and some mental health re-set time.

 

[Michen]

Michen, you've been so strong over the last few weeks, I'm afraid this reaction was bound to happen sooner or later. Take some time to look after yourself. I think you are starting to get some perspective as you are asking this question. You don't need anybody's permission to enjoy yourself or take some time off. Boggle has improved hugely. As long as you are happy that he's well looked after its fine to take some time for yourself. And you probably should.

Thank you. I know the care will be good, and my friend is there. But I am terrified something will happen or he will relapse and I won't be there with him to say good bye.

Michen, only you can answer the questions you’ve posed in relation to your own situation.

Personally I couldn’t put myself in the financial situation you’ve been in, let alone the mental anxiety. Neither, to my mind, are healthy.

But I appreciate that these are individual considerations.

For what it’s worth, I think you should do the planned trips, with clear instructions to your yard that if he has another crisis he’s euthanised. (I appreciate that this may be controversial).

It's just a mess- the finances suck but are manageable and it's not going to drastically affect life (although I have been very lucky that it hasn't).

I just don't know what else I could have done. PTS when he got the pneumonia? PTS when this next thing happened? How could I do that to protect my own sanity, when the horse has given me absolutely everything for 7 years. I just couldn't. Especially not when he's so bright and chirpy and himself.

Am I being blind that I should have just PTS weeks ago?

 

[Asha]

You have gone above and beyond for him, but for you own sake you need to accept you cannot fix everything. No one can .
You need to look after yourself as well as you look after Bog. Take a break from all this.

 

[ycbm]

Michen, only you can answer the questions you’ve posed in relation to your own situation.

Personally I couldn’t put myself in the financial situation you’ve been in, let alone the mental anxiety. Neither, to my mind, are healthy.

But I appreciate that these are individual considerations.

For what it’s worth, I think you should do the planned trips, with clear instructions to your yard that if he has another crisis he’s euthanised. (I appreciate that this may be controversial).

This. All of it, the money and the anxiety and the PTS.
.

 

[Michen]

I agree on the PTS. I have cancelled his Colicare/surgery coverage because I know it's not something I'd do at this point. Anything else that's drastic is a no brainer.

 

[DiNozzo]

I just don't know what else I could have done. PTS when he got the pneumonia? PTS when this next thing happened? How could I do that to protect my own sanity, when the horse has given me absolutely everything for 7 years. I just couldn't. Especially not when he's so bright and chirpy and himself.

Am I being blind that I should have just PTS weeks ago?

No. Why should pneumonia indicate a possible (unrelated) illness that might have also nearly killed him?

The worst thing, the absolute worst thing, you have done, is to yourself. And you haven't even done that on purpose. Who else couldn't have been so gloriously happy that he made such a comeback?! Someone at a distance might have predicted a secondary illness (y'know, like thrush after AB's?), but I doubt even the most cynical of us could have predicted this. You certainly couldn't and that's what's cruel (ETA: for you, not Boggle! You certainly haven't been cruel to him!). It's not your fault though.

 

[ycbm]

Am I being blind that I should have just PTS weeks ago?

No, you made the decisions that you did because the pain of losing him was greater than the pain of losing the money.

For other people, and I'll say straight away that includes me, the financial barrier would be set a lot, lot lower.

That doesn't make them right and you wrong. You know why you did what you did. You can afford it. End of.
.

 

[Michen]

No, you made the decisions that you did because the pain of losing him was greater than the pain of losing the money.

For other people, and I'll say straight away that includes me, the financial barrier would be set a lot, lot lower.

That doesn't make them right and you wrong. You know why you did what you did. You can afford it. End of.
.

But it's not just the money it's whether I'm being an idiot to continue down this path of research and hope. The vet said the chances of a full recovery are "smaller than small". But because it's what I do, I'm chucking myself into everything I can with therapies and rehab and blah blah blah.

And I wonder if I'm just a complete lunatic to even be bothering to try, or whether most people just DON'T try that hard and that's why their horses don't recover.

 

[palo1]

@Michen, you have had an absolutely awful time and given Boggle every possible support you could have done. It is inevitable that you feel overwhelmed and sort of drowning in the perma-crisis. I have been there a few times with dogs and horses in the past and it's not healthy or sustainable. BUT, if Boggle is through the immediate crisis and you can ensure appropriate care, you should probably take a break yourself. Sometimes we do have to relinquish 'control' - it can be a good test of health/recovery too, to reduce the micro detail of management systems. After all, if the only way to keep amazing Boggle going is like this, long term, then you probably know that cannot really work. And it probably doesn't need to be like that but it's hard when you are in crisis mode, to step down. So maybe take a break with a degree of acceptance that you really need that to get your balance back. It's awfully hard, I know but if you can't keep going, and who could, then something has to give? You've done amazing for Boggle, know that for certain. He is one lucky, much loved pony. He will, in all likelihood be absolutely fine! It's bloody hard to trust them and feel confident in them when they are trying to kill us with worry!! And if there was another crisis, you need time and proper headspace to think about how you would deal with it. Hugs.

 

[gallopingby]

Michen you’ve done so well and must have been constantly on edge for weeks / months now. Boggle has had the best care anyone can provide because of you. There’s a phrase ‘do as l say, not as l do’ which maybe could put things into perspective. I think you should go on holiday as planned, have a decent break and recharge your batteries. Bog will hopefully be settled by the time you go, you’ll have friends around that you trust to let you know if anything if going on but maybe everything will be fine, no issues and just ticking along. If you don’t go you’ll have missed out again and would anyone want you to do that? You may well then return with a different view of whatever had been worrying you.

 

[palo1]

But it's not just the money it's whether I'm being an idiot to continue down this path of research and hope. The vet said the chances of a full recovery are "smaller than small". But because it's what I do, I'm chucking myself into everything I can with therapies and rehab and blah blah blah.

And I wonder if I'm just a complete lunatic to even be bothering to try, or whether most people just DON'T try that hard and that's why their horses don't recover.

In my experience, research, understanding and a committed rehab plan are good things. You are not wrong in any of that. But you probably need a break to really process all the things that have happened and work out how you are going to move forward emotionally, in terms of your expectations for Boggle and in light of all the information and advice you have to hand.

 

[sychnant]

If I could afford it, I'd try that hard too. I'm not saying it's the right or most sensible thing to do, but the two issues seem to be unrelated. If they had been related I might have considered my options when the second thing happened, but honestly, if they had happened further apart it would probably seem different to you. 2 such major things occurring so close together would be enough to make anyone feel how you do!

I can understand how you feel about needing to take a break, and also why you're not sure you can! But if Boggle has people who will look after him, maybe it's what you need?

Sending love and hugs to you both, you'll do what's best, and hopefully a huge amount of good luck is coming your way because you really deserve it.

 

[Ambers Echo]

But it's not just the money it's whether I'm being an idiot to continue down this path of research and hope. The vet said the chances of a full recovery are "smaller than small". But because it's what I do, I'm chucking myself into everything I can with therapies and rehab and blah blah blah.

And I wonder if I'm just a complete lunatic to even be bothering to try, or whether most people just DON'T try that hard and that's why their horses don't recover.

I think it may be somewhere in the middle. On the one hand, most people just would not be able to lay their hands on that kind of money, even if they were willing to spend every penny they had, and so very expensive treatments are not often tried. So there is limited experience of what is possible if money really is no object.

And also, human medicine shows us that there are limits to what can be done for any illness regardless of what cash is thrown at it.

Plus I am deeply, deeply sceptical (for aniamls and humans) of those people who offer 'Hail Mary' options. I would run a mile from anything 'alternative' in this kind of situation. At best people are well meaning but have not carried out rigorous research in their methods. At worst people are exploitive of people's desperation. And there will always, always be someone who thinks they have something only they can offer.

Also 'research' done by amateurs just can't compare with what vets with decades of experience know is possible or feasible with a given presentation. So I would not necessarily stop trying to achieve the best possible outcome, but I'd be guided very much by trusted vets on what to try and what not to try.

Also I echo all the other comments about you needing a break. You really, really do.

 

[Michen]

Thank you. You all raise really good points. In some ways, the easier bit is over. The harder bit will be spending the next 6-12 months trying to rehab him fully and it failing. That will be brutal.

And my vet warned me of it, I think that's why in some ways she's being so cautious about the prognosis for any return to work. Because she knows the toll this has taken and has seen the utter devastation and sadness. I think she'd in some ways rather I didn't try so that I can't be heartbroken again.

This isn't something I can just sit on either, if I'm going to try and rehab him I need to do it now, there is a small window for nerves to improve. I suppose that's again why I'm thinking how on earth can I leave the country for 10 days then 21 days at a time- interrupting his rehab (I can't really ask anyone to do it- but could pack him off to a rehab barn for the longer stint however not really fair on him).

 

[gallopingby]

Michen a very long time ago, maybe 40 years ago, l had a much loved and successful pony who unexpectedly became ill at 9 years old. Fortunately she was well insured and eventually ended up at one of the vet hospitals where there was a research project going on, she spent a few months there, maybe four or five, with some progress and some set backs along the way before she was discharged home. She lived happily and well for another 21 years. I remember one of the vets asking me what l had thought along the way as apparently she had got some ‘stick’ occasionally for keeping the pony going. She was a favourite with the yard staff and went back if they had a seminar and wanted an ‘exhibit’ l think you do have to weigh up the odds but sometimes people opt out of long term care due to a range of different circumstances. At the end of the day things work out one way or another. Maybe lay off the reading/research while you’re away though.

 

[gallopingby]

Thank you. You all raise really good points. In some ways, the easier bit is over. The harder bit will be spending the next 6-12 months trying to rehab him fully and it failing. That will be brutal.

And my vet warned me of it, I think that's why in some ways she's being so cautious about the prognosis for any return to work. Because she knows the toll this has taken and has seen the utter devastation and sadness. I think she'd in some ways rather I didn't try so that I can't be heartbroken again.

This isn't something I can just sit on either, if I'm going to try and rehab him I need to do it now, there is a small window for nerves to improve. I suppose that's again why I'm thinking how on earth can I leave the country for 10 days then 21 days at a time- interrupting his rehab (I can't really ask anyone to do it- but could pack him off to a rehab barn for the longer stint however not really fair on him).

Yes but it’s the vets job to warn you of possible outcomes - she’s doing her job!! Doesn’t mean she’s right or wrong but more likely as with people and illness sometimes we just don’t know. Patients get upset because the medics won’t give them a straight answer but that’s usually because there isn’t one. Just time and patience and maybe a bit of good luck thrown in.

 

[AmyMay]

Am I being blind that I should have just PTS weeks ago?

Not necessarily. However many would have.

Bottom line is you can’t let the next however many months be ruled by anxiety and crisis.

You’ve moved to another country to explore and experience the opportunities that it gives you. Not failing at that should be your priority.

 

[TPO]

I've been in a similar position.

My last TB had an undiagnosed reoccurring issue despite numerous vet interventions and two surgeries.

He would be in acute pain for a day until an abscess burst and then absolutely fine in himself.

After the first surgery he had 13wks of box rest and weekly vet visits. I once stupidly attempted to count up the cost of all the vets and stopped when I got to 36k above insurance.

The problem was that he was "fine", there was only that day or 2 until an abscess burst.

Each time I said that was the last time and the next reoccurrence I was calling it a day. I became pretty hot at spotting anything and doctoring things so they became slightly less of a big deal, apart from on the pocket.

It meant he was a field ornament but not "just" a field ornament, a field ornament that I worried about 24/7.

My late 20s/early 30s were more restricted than I would have liked because there wasn't anyone I could leave him with. It wouldn't have been fair on them either to shoulder that responsibility. Plus the money factor. His costs did restrict "life" because I had a mortgage, car and all that good stuff to pay alone too.

Ironically when I did make the call it was unrelated to him. He was actually doing alright. Although as a, by that point, 16yr old ex racer who'd had a very hard life (started at 16mths, fractured pelvis at 2yrs and so it goes on) I could see that we were starting on the downhill slope with his overall health. There was *something* stirring in at least one knee, that I'd hazard a guess at being arthritis. He looked really well for a 16yr old ex racer but he didn't have his usual bloom and blood tests showed nothing untoward.

It was mum's horse needing pts with a heart issue that made me decide to let him go at the same time.

Needless to say it wasn't a great day holding two to be pts. He went first, and unfortunately I've been there for a few already but I've never had the sense of relief that I got instantly when he went. Don't get me wrong, I was heartbroken, but I don't think I knew how much stress and worry I'd carried about for 6yrs because of him.

It was a bit like how you can be swamped at work but you keep going and thrn it'd thr Christmas holidays and finally your body relaxes then *wham* you get sick/flu. Once he was gone it was almost a release, and that's no reflection on how much I loved the big lump.

I was just under 8k last year for Chips attempt to amputate his leg and 10k this year for whatever it was that was trying to kill him from the inside. I'm very fortunate that I had savings, but his latest timing coincided with buying a new house, so that didn't help! I know that isn't a patch on Bog's bills.

I don't really know what I'm trying to say

With hindsight I wish I'd made the call years earlier with Doobie. Which is easy to say now but when I was in it and, for the most part, he was OK just being a horse. But each time I thought, "This is it, this will fix him" so I tried.

I'm nearly 41 now and I'm pretty certain that Chip will be my last. It's just not fun waiting for the next thing to happen, and there is always a next thing. If Chip's insides fail again that will be it, I'm not putting either of us through that again, he was really ill at one point.

I know what I think the answer is but it's completely different when you're in it, even more so when there's a healthy looking and acting horse involved.

ETA I've been there with the rehab too. I had possibly a small advantage as I've done McT-C and EBW training and that meant I also had a lot of contacts from.those courses who were vets, physios and osteos.

I did literally put life on hold and put everything into his rehab (& box rest prior). I worked 7.30-5(usually longer) so it meant 4am starts and 11pm finishes doing everything around work. I didn't have time, money or energy for any sort of social life for quote a few long periods. At the time I hoped it would be worth it, in my case it wasn't.

I'm clearly a slow learner because everything got thrown at Vinnie who got round the clock (literally hourly) care for the 5wks until cellulitis took him.

Then when Chip was ill he got the same attention. Its making me teary just writing this.

I wish I had a magic wand to make it all better for you.

 

[scats]

I think you just need to take a day at a time, at least for the next couple of months.

From a personal point of view, I won’t travel or leave my horses for any length of time. I don’t do holidays and I wouldn’t choose a job that meant I have to be away. I’ve lost a lot of horses and I know just how fast things can go wrong, so I always want to be around or be able to get back to them as quickly as possible.
But that’s just me and travel has never been important to me so it’s no big deal. I totally understand that people are different and my life probably looks very boring to many!

I think that you have two choices. You either cancel travel plans and stick around as much as you can just to get him through the next few months (I assume his long term chances will improve the further down the road you get?) or you carry on with your plans but have a plan out in place in case things go wrong and maybe accept that you might not be there at the end. The outcome likely wouldn’t be any different, so it really does come down to how you would feel about the worst case scenario if it did happen and you weren’t around.
Neither of these is wrong and no-one can deny your commitment to Boggle.

 

[Bionic Boy]

Honestly only you can answer all the questions you raise. We can all give opinions but unless you are in the situation you can only say what you think you will do, reality can be very different.
12 years ago my boy got kicked and broke his elbow, he went off to Newmarket and now has a plate and 14 screws holding his leg together (hence my screen name ). I was told at the time there was a high chance of him not surviving the operation, if he got through that it depended on how he comes round from the GA. Chances were if he survived he would never be ridden again. I made the decision to go ahead with the operation. It cost me more to fix him than buy him. It was a very long hard 12 months but I got back on him and that one little hack made it all worthwhile. He went on to be a happy hacker for about 7 years before I retired him.
I am glad I done what I done but I’m not sure I would go through it all again. It was a very hard time, emotionally it was an extreme rollercoaster.
Not sure what I am trying to say really apart from make each decision as you need to rather than trying to look at a bigger picture when your not sure what the bigger picture looks like.
I for one would not judge any decisions you make for yourself or Boggle.

 

[Michen]

I thought of you a lot TPO because I know you’ve been through utter shit luck and long drawn out heartache too.

I think I was fine because I was busy doing stuff for Bog and now suddenly I’m in another state and properly thinking about everything that’s happened and it’s… WTF.

Just boarding a flight (Albuquerque is a weird place btw everyone, not sure I recommend it ) and will read all replies properly.

Thank you for once again scraping me off the floor with sensible insights and thoughts, I know that once I see Bog’s happy little face in a few hours there will be no question in my mind whether all this is worth it.

Given my horse is still continuing to give life his all, I know that I have to do the same for him and try my absolute best to get him as recovered as I possibly can.

ETA but you have helped me answer the main question and I do need to get out of here and spend some time in the ocean, if I carry on like this I’m going to crack and if I crack, my work will suffer. And that, above all, is the most important thing because without it there is no Bog money pit available to even be able to remove financial restraints from this s*** show.