oldandgold
Well-Known Member
Oh Boggle, I hope that the carrots have no adverse effects to his digestion system.
Boggle- USA bound!
- Thread starter Michen
- Start date
PurBee
Well-Known Member
Oh Bog! Maybe he thought he needed to step-up his game for team bogmichen and pull his weight to eat for 2, with your appetite in flux?! 
He’s looking very chuffed with himself. Hopefully he sensibly gorged so it all glides through no problem
He’s looking very chuffed with himself. Hopefully he sensibly gorged so it all glides through no problem
blodwyn1
Well-Known Member
Can you get milk thistle? I feed that to my 26 yr old who is on Bute. I would say that managing retired horses is not like managing fit horses. My old girl is lame if not on Bute, my markers are is she eating, is she pleased to see us all, can she get down and roll, can she mooch around and enjoy life. The answer is still yes although she mostly walks everywhere but she can control the others by twitching an ear and she still enjoys life.
blodwyn1
Well-Known Member
I have to add I can only walk because I have morphine patches on my back and I enjoy life and riding.
Michen
Well-Known Member
He is just such a horror! Then when I went to remove him from the hay bit he had the audacity to try not to “catch”. In a space he can barely turn around in 
I’m not sure if he’s feeling better as I decided to put a stables gap between the horses. So they can socialise over the run (as one is two stables big if that makes sense), although the runs are sodden so I’m keeping them out of them anyway and they are out in the field 13 hours.
I figured it’s not nice for Dusty to have bog flying with him at teeth, and if Bog isn’t feeling great maybe he needs some space.
He does seem much improved in pasture. Just took this but they are now grazing nose to nose.
I’m not sure if he’s feeling better as I decided to put a stables gap between the horses. So they can socialise over the run (as one is two stables big if that makes sense), although the runs are sodden so I’m keeping them out of them anyway and they are out in the field 13 hours.
I figured it’s not nice for Dusty to have bog flying with him at teeth, and if Bog isn’t feeling great maybe he needs some space.
He does seem much improved in pasture. Just took this but they are now grazing nose to nose.
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
He certainly knows how to push the boundaries, let’s hope he has no ill effects from his escape
SEL
Well-Known Member
Oh Bog! I remember my Ardennes getting into the feed room with his chunky backside blocking the doorway. I was pulling at his tail and he ignored me with his head stuck in another livery's competition mix. Fortunately she saw the funny side and was crying with laughter watching me try and get him out.
I do wonder if Bog is a bit jealous of Dusty. My big mare isn't shy in having a go at the ponies if she feels they're taking up too much of my attention.
I do wonder if Bog is a bit jealous of Dusty. My big mare isn't shy in having a go at the ponies if she feels they're taking up too much of my attention.
Michen
Well-Known Member
It just happened so suddenly though, as soon as I started taking Dusty out for hacks. I think it bought on ulcers or whatnot even though he seemed ok.
rabatsa
Confuddled
If the bute is taking away his pain then he may be far more pleasant to Bog.
I had a horse that we came to the conclusion suffered from headaches due to air pressure. He could go all summer without problems but when the weather started changing he became narky and sometimes downright nasty with the others. At the equinox the others were frightened of him. He was put down due to this.
I had a horse that we came to the conclusion suffered from headaches due to air pressure. He could go all summer without problems but when the weather started changing he became narky and sometimes downright nasty with the others. At the equinox the others were frightened of him. He was put down due to this.
Oneday
Member
I had 2 mares who were best friends in the field, moved them to a new yard with internal stables and bars between. Had to separate them as they were rearing up and fighting over the internal wall, it was probably 8 ft high. Definitely not playing. Put my gelding between them who they both only tolerated in the field and no problems , who knows what goes through their minds.He is just such a horror! Then when I went to remove him from the hay bit he had the audacity to try not to “catch”. In a space he can barely turn around in
I’m not sure if he’s feeling better as I decided to put a stables gap between the horses. So they can socialise over the run (as one is two stables big if that makes sense), although the runs are sodden so I’m keeping them out of them anyway and they are out in the field 13 hours.
I figured it’s not nice for Dusty to have bog flying with him at teeth, and if Bog isn’t feeling great maybe he needs some space.
He does seem much improved in pasture. Just took this but they are now grazing nose to nose.
View attachment 138026
VRIN
Well-Known Member
Is it possible that Bog is 'jealous' rather than stressed??
SEL
Well-Known Member
I'm thinking that.
I've been spending a lot of time with my young gelding recently (he's the only one with 4 working legs!) and my big mare is being horrid to him!
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
That is what i thought. At the risk of amthropomorphism, I think you have such a close bond with boggle he just does not want to share you.
Lurfy
Well-Known Member
Bog thinks he is a person, helping out in the feedroom. His face when he got in there must have been pure joy!
Michen
Well-Known Member
I honestly don’t know. This all started when I started taking Dusty hacking. But, he is obviously not sound, so to me it makes more scientific sense that he has ulcers because I stressed him out even if I thought he was fine and he’s been in pain that I haven’t correctly managed.
He is not now being slightly grumpy with me, since separating him from Dusty. But that could also be ulcer treatment starting to work.
The sun is out it’s 20 degrees and he seems relaxed and content so I don’t feel bad about waiting until Thursday. He just squealed at Dusty for coming near his hay which made me happy as odd as that sounds as that’s much more typical Bogboss behaviour over the teeth open running at him for no reason thing. I am scared with what I’ll see when he comes off the bute from tomorrow but we need a proper assessment of his comfort levels so needs must.
He is not now being slightly grumpy with me, since separating him from Dusty. But that could also be ulcer treatment starting to work.
The sun is out it’s 20 degrees and he seems relaxed and content so I don’t feel bad about waiting until Thursday. He just squealed at Dusty for coming near his hay which made me happy as odd as that sounds as that’s much more typical Bogboss behaviour over the teeth open running at him for no reason thing. I am scared with what I’ll see when he comes off the bute from tomorrow but we need a proper assessment of his comfort levels so needs must.
teapot
Well-Known Member
He may just prefer having the space - you've always said he's a toad towards others! Any pent up angst by him won't have helped his ulcers either.
Surbie
Well-Known Member
I was wondering that too. I didn't realise that mine will get horribly jealous if, say, I hand him over to a friend to lead in from the field and then take the others.
Bog really does know how to push Every Single Button - he looks so pleased with himself. I'm glad the grazing/pen change has brought some positives.
We have a last-chance laminitic on my yard. Last year she wasn't supposed to be out much and obviously got fed up. She escaped her wooden stable by pushing the wall out so the door opened, and wandered up the yard eating every breakfast she could find before going into the barn and gorging on hay.
Michen
Well-Known Member
Something to ask you guys, I've been toying with the idea for a few days but I'm considering having a necropsy done if, when he is PTS. I'm fairly pragmatic that a body is a body, so I'm not sure I'm any more upset by the idea of him being messed with than going straight to the usual disposal (I have no intention of cremating or whatnot). Has anyone had this done not for the insurance, but for their own... peace of mind?!
I don't know if it would help or hinder afterwards, I guess I always wonder about the neck and the clicking and the fall he had last february... I never wanted to CT scan only because there would be no treatment whatever it was, so it was pointless to put him through it. But I did, and I guess do, kind of want to know..
I looked at him again on the lunge, he doesn't look great to me. His face doesn't look uncomfortable or anything, and he was happy enough to tank off bucking in the canter, but the trot just looks "restricted" is the best way I can describe it. Stuffy, stuck, stiff in front. I appreciate he's a retired out of work horse and doesn't need to look "good" on the lunge but, in December/Jan he DID look good. If I didn't know his neck history I'd be thinking bilateral hoof lameness. I think he looked good the other day either because of the snow elevating his adrenalin or something I don't know. Or, he had a shot of IV bute (because I was late on the bute as I lost it and vet had to come out, so wanted it to act quick). Although it was the same dosage, maybe IV makes a difference.
I don't know if it would help or hinder afterwards, I guess I always wonder about the neck and the clicking and the fall he had last february... I never wanted to CT scan only because there would be no treatment whatever it was, so it was pointless to put him through it. But I did, and I guess do, kind of want to know..
I looked at him again on the lunge, he doesn't look great to me. His face doesn't look uncomfortable or anything, and he was happy enough to tank off bucking in the canter, but the trot just looks "restricted" is the best way I can describe it. Stuffy, stuck, stiff in front. I appreciate he's a retired out of work horse and doesn't need to look "good" on the lunge but, in December/Jan he DID look good. If I didn't know his neck history I'd be thinking bilateral hoof lameness. I think he looked good the other day either because of the snow elevating his adrenalin or something I don't know. Or, he had a shot of IV bute (because I was late on the bute as I lost it and vet had to come out, so wanted it to act quick). Although it was the same dosage, maybe IV makes a difference.
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GrassChop
Well-Known Member
If money was no object and I'd been through as much as you have with Bog without any firm answers then yes, I would definitely have it done so I finally knew.
Could he just be compensating and that's why he moves that way now? Not necessarily because he's uncomfortable? Are there anymore checks you can do just in case it is something that he did when he fell which is treatable?
meleeka
Well-Known Member
I wouldn’t. What if it came back with something unexpected, but fixable, or even worse, nothing much? I think they are useful when you have no idea or if tumours are suspected but I’d already be fairly sure of the outcome before I’d PTS, so what’s it really going to tell you?
Equi
Well-Known Member
There are three ways it can go. You’ll find a major issue that was causing pain, you find nothing that explains his ailments or you find something that potentially could have been treatable. Are you willing to risk the later? Or would you rather let it go with the knowledge that the vet wouldn’t pts if they too didn’t agree something was wrong. Does it really matter what it was that was wrong?
But for what it’s worth, I’m a morbidly curious kind of person too. I would have loved to have my old boys leg kept, but at the time I was too emotional to deal with anything.
But for what it’s worth, I’m a morbidly curious kind of person too. I would have loved to have my old boys leg kept, but at the time I was too emotional to deal with anything.
nutjob
Well-Known Member
No, I have always PTS due to quality of life so how bad the horse was internally was never relevant.
The mother of one of my horses dropped down dead when my boy was 6 weeks old and her owner did have it in this case as it was unexpected which I would have done in similar circumstances. I did have one who dropped down dead but he was 27 and had a heart condition.
I would rather spend the money on outstanding vet bills, my remaining still alive horse(s) and buying a new horse.
In your case if you are seriously considering this then make sure that you will get the information you need. When they do the CT myelogram it's the contrast agent which enables them to see if and how much the spinal cord is compressed. I believe they also put the head / neck in different positions to see if this has any effect. A dissection may not give you this information. As mentioned previously, I also worry that you could find something which was missed and how would you feel about this?
SO1
Well-Known Member
No I don't think you should do it as I am not sure if you could cope if you found it was something treatable.
I think if you have to make a decision based on symptoms rather than diagnostics then it is kinder for you to let him go on the basis of your belief that his problem is untreatable. I appreciate you want closure and would feel better if you had confirmation of your suspicions.
I think if you have to make a decision based on symptoms rather than diagnostics then it is kinder for you to let him go on the basis of your belief that his problem is untreatable. I appreciate you want closure and would feel better if you had confirmation of your suspicions.
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
I'm honestly not sure what you'd find that would be "treatable" at this point that would really matter.
It's hard to say because I'm not you. Would I have a necropsy done? Maybe, because I am a curious person.
It's hard to say because I'm not you. Would I have a necropsy done? Maybe, because I am a curious person.
Michen
Well-Known Member
My plan I think is to ask the vets to block the fetlock down to rule out that area. And flexion of course. Assuming nothing there, an ultrasound to see if there’s any obvious inflammation in the neck (though there’s never been any signs of this on ultrasound). Other than that I’m not sure there’s much else I’d do diagnostic wise as other than feet, I can’t think of anything else that’s very “fixable” in front.
My vet did always warn me he’d be a prospect for coffin joint arthritis. It’s definitely something to rule out.
The only other thing is when we’ve treated the neck it’s always been lower down as that’s where we see the most arthritis. But he holds his tension much higher up, it’s around his poll/top of the neck that seems sore to me when you do bodywork. I’d “maybe” consider lobbing some steroid in there as a last ditch. Maybe.
Necropsy $400 plus maybe extra for disposal people to take him there as it’s 2 hours away.
Michen
Well-Known Member
Thanks all. That’s a good point re spinal cord compression. I think.. what I kinda would want to know, is if there was a fracture/broken something there.
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
It's really only $400? That's not bad.
Michen
Well-Known Member
Yes I was surprised too. I think it will be the disposal people getting him there that’s more. I’m sure given this is Colorado and America it’ll cost several thousand to have him PTS
I just got an email from the vets saying my bill schedule thing was now clear and that I’ll move to normal billing (aka no more lump sum coming out). That made me laugh, darkly.
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
Yes I was surprised too. I think it will be the disposal people getting him there that’s more. I’m sure given this is Colorado and America it’ll cost several thousand to have him PTS
I just got an email from the vets saying my bill schedule thing was now clear and that I’ll move to normal billing (aka no more lump sum coming out). That made me laugh, darkly.
Yeah, it also depends on how you go about it. Around here I could find someone to (or I could) shoot a horse, get a backhoe and call it a day. If I did it the "proper" way then it'd certainly be more. I think you can still get a horse euthanized for under $1k though.
Michen
Well-Known Member
I have always been in the shoot them camp. Walk away and leave them to it and they know nothing about it, quick and they go with a carrot in their mouths.
But, I feel really strongly that I need to be there right to the end however hard it is, and even if I could find someone with a gun to do it here I just could not bear to see that.