Boggle- USA bound!

[Michen]

Yup, Boggle getting them well on their way to addition. I watch how they just want to be around them, stroke their noses, feed them bits of hay, breathe in their smell. And I think yep- I'm pretty much still exactly like that haha. If not being able to ride Boggle has taught me anything it's that it all started with just wanting to be near a horse and that in itself is still enough.

 

[Michen]

Bog got wind I was going away today, and from next week out of Colorado for a solid month.

His solution- cellulitis! A fun new thing he’s never had. Will he eat the antibiotics in his feed I just did an hour round trip to pick up? Absolutely not.

Why do I ever bother booking holidays? Honestly a part of me is thinking should I even bother trying to treat this or just PTS, for what, to prolong his life a few more months…

 

[southerncomfort]

I was just thinking about you this morning, and hoping he was giving you an easier life just now.

 

[Michen]

He was for a minute! All was well and easy.

Sigh.

 

[nutjob]

I've had one with cellulitis which came out of nowhere. The vet came the same day a few hours after I called, by that time both back legs were massive and very hot despite cold hosing. Within a week he was back to normal and it hasn't happened again, this was about 5 years ago. They don't all respond well to antibiotics but mine did. I did cold hosing and walking in hand but I think the main thing is getting the antibiotics in and if they are effective.

Sorry you've got yet more stress that you don't deserve but mine had a fast uneventful recovery despite being in a frighteningly bad way initially.

 

[Michen]

I've had one with cellulitis which came out of nowhere. The vet came the same day a few hours after I called, by that time both back legs were massive and very hot despite cold hosing. Within a week he was back to normal and it hasn't happened again, this was about 5 years ago. They don't all respond well to antibiotics but mine did. I did cold hosing and walking in hand but I think the main thing is getting the antibiotics in and if they are effective.

Sorry you've got yet more stress that you don't deserve but mine had a fast uneventful recovery despite being in a frighteningly bad way initially.

Thank you so much for this. I guess I immediately thought of poor TPO who lost a horse to it.

It’s just the worst timing, I get back from this work trip Thursday so it’s just a short one but I need it to be cleared up or well on its way out if I’m going to leave the state, then country next Monday.

 

[meleeka]

Oh Bog, you just couldn't enjoy the peace for 5 minutes! I just mixed the powder with water and syringed it. I always wore some of it but most of it went in. I wish the sachets weren't so big though!

 

[palo1]

Thank you so much for this. I guess I immediately thought of poor TPO who lost a horse to it.

It’s just the worst timing, I get back from this work trip Thursday so it’s just a short one but I need it to be cleared up or well on its way out if I’m going to leave the state, then country next Monday.

I've had 2 horses with cellulite episodes. Thankfully both recovered quickly on antibiotics with no further recurrence. Getting the medication into the one was a nightmare that I vowed I would never repeat though . Sorry to hear Bog is stressing you again.

 

[Michen]

He’s a PITA but he is very cute he always knows when to ramp it up.

I leave the runs open now so they can come and go and they are always sharing.

Thanks everyone, hopefully it’ll clear up quick. He’s not super lame on it or anything. Not sure whether to clip the leg? It’s rather hairy!

 

[Pinkvboots]

Water mint essence and a syringe to mix with them works for mine.

 

[Trouper]

When mine was kicking up a fuss about meds, I mixed them into grated carrot, grated apple, tiny handful of oats dampened down with a weak molasses solution. I know, I know about the sugar but deemed this preferable to no meds and she was practically barging me out of the way to get to the (tiny) bowl I mixed it all in.

 

[Michen]

Thank you I’m off to purchase stuff. He will eat it as it is if… I hold the feed bucket up for him. Lol.

 

[Ceriann]

I’ve had two with it. One ate the antibiotics happily with Bute. The other wouldn’t touch it - once suspicious I was trying to end her wouldn’t play ball with anything oral. Vet had to inject for three days. Both times cleared up pretty quickly and easily (bar the feeding fight). In neither case was there an obvious or systemic reason (or not obvious to me or the vet). Hope he recovers quickly from his latest drama.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I've used apple sauce with success. I haven't used molasses in ages, but that's an option too.

His timing and ability to cause stress is truly impeccable! Hopefully it resolves with no further issues.

 

[Michen]

Well I abandoned him as had to go to Arizona for a work meeting (where it’s currently 48 degrees). Have not heard anything from his carers that his leg no longer resembles a leg so must be ok. Back tomorrow then he has four days to sort himself out before I truly leave!

 

[misst]

Just a thought Michen. People are my specialty rather than horses medically but, people on long term high dose steroids can be immunosuppressed and get things like cellulitis much more easily than others. Is it worth discussing dosage with your vet? Sorry maybe not helpful but it just occured to me. Hope you're doing ok x

 

[Michen]

Just a thought Michen. People are my specialty rather than horses medically but, people on long term high dose steroids can be immunosuppressed and get things like cellulitis much more easily than others. Is it worth discussing dosage with your vet? Sorry maybe not helpful but it just occured to me. Hope you're doing ok x

That was my first thought. Apparently not related and actually steroids can be used to treat it.

Nonetheless we’ve reduced down for now though his dose is not particularly high anyway.

 

[misst]

That is great news M. and I learned something! I hope he does well for you while you're away. This rollercoaster must be so hard for you x

 

[Michen]

It’s ok! Honestly I’ve gone through every scenario and possibility for Boggle and his long term future and winter, and I still feel PTS is the best option for him. Not me.

Now that I’m coming to accept that, everything else is just.. noise.

That doesn’t mean I don’t cry daily about the idea of losing him but it does mean that something like this whilst frustrating doesn’t tear me up as much.

Maybe that’s healthy

 

[Michen]

Boggle report is that leg is much better actually.

He had kicked his door out of its runner due to annoyance at whatever didn’t happen when he expected it to happen.

Yesterday vs today. I expect it was a fly bite or something, they are viscous at the moment.

 

[Ahrena]

He really doesn’t like you going away does he?! Glad he’s doing better. Lexi had it after she ditched me in the ford and it cleared up after about a week.

 

[Michen]

He really doesn’t like you going away does he?! Glad he’s doing better. Lexi had it after she ditched me in the ford and it cleared up after about a week.

Part of his controlling behaviour oh I forgot about you being ditched in that ford. Hehe

 

[Ahrena]

They’re so narcissistic. She put ME in a Ford in November and then I felt bad because she got a fat leg

 

[Michen]

Need some help from my HHO sounding board . I just don’t know what I’m going to do with Boggle. We are maybe 8 weeks from having snow on the ground and I’ve been holding steady on my plan to PTS before winter but it’s just so, so hard. I’m trying to lay it out in a sensible way to find a way forward.

Medically good:
- Been on oral steroids since April. Tolerated well. No muscle wastage, no lami. Bit fat but grass now mostly done.
- Gallops around etc just fine.
- Gets up after a roll fine 9/10. I may see the odd mis step.
- Very perky and bright and himself

Medically not good
- I see a pain response occasionally when he reaches around to itch sometimes. Not every time. It’s a slight cock of the head, and an eye expression after. Lasts maybe 5 seconds.
- When weaned off omeprazole I saw a very slight increase in dominance/grumpyness with his companion. So went back on a half dose.
- Resistant to stretching forelegs out and forward but fine to shoe.
- His neck cracks and clicks constantly.

Medical options:
- Had steroids into neck a year ago and two weeks later had a huge ataxic episode. We aren’t actually sure if it was caused by the steroids, maybe it shifted something, it seems odd it happened right when the steroids would have been at their peak. We could try steroids into neck again but also we don’t even know where to put them. We injected the joints that looked the worse on x ray but I’m not even convinced that’s necessarily where the problem is. I’m not sure you can inject every single neck joint in one go?
- Tried stem cell/biologics and made no difference.

Winter problem:
Here is where it just sends me into a turmoil. He is living his best life currently in a pasture, stall and run set up that is just heaven. I have full control over his care, no need to worry about enough hay etc. One companion. No stress for him. Comes in and out of turnout, stall, run as he pleases. Never confined in a small space. Sun is shining, weather is warm, still some grass to graze, literally perfect for a compromised horse. But he is at 8500 feet elevation and a 20- 30 min drive from my house. The way I see it I have the following options.

- PTS in autumn. Accept his condition is only going to worsen and get ahead of it, let him go when he’s happy and healthy and looks amazing
- Try and find a suitable boarding option down the mountain. I’ve yet to achieve this. Retirement type barns are mainly pasture turnout in a herd (I don’t think he’d cope). Stall options are possible but they would be shut in at the minimum overnight so that’s 14 hours in a 12 x 12 stall. For an ataxic, arthiritic horse, is that right? Turnout is feasible but uninspiring so think dry lot with hay outside. Maybe a half acre at best. Boarding sucks here, it really does.
- Keep him where he is. I’ve basically already discounted it for a few reasons. Firstly, there is a serious risk of not being able to get there due to snow. It’s not on a main road, and last winter we had a whole 5 days where the entire of Evergreen was snowed in. That’s rare, but can happen. I travel a lot and whilst I would risk myself to get there on the roads whatever conditions, I can’t expect grooms to. There is also the very scary idea that a vet wouldn’t be able to get to him in an emergency if he needed PTS and went ataxic. That’s of course a risk even with a healthy horse with a colic or not but with him it’s higher. The runs at the barn are also on a hill so will get slippery with snow and ice.
- Haul him out of state to avoid winter. Arizona, California. This would still be a dry lot type situation but everything would stay warm for him and no snow to worry about. Expect it’s 16-18 hours trailering, even spread over a few days that’s a LOT to ask of an (albeit mild) ataxic horse and especially one that’s had pneumonia

It feels like whatever way I turn there’s just no good option. But the thought of PTS makes me want to hurl, he is so bright and looks so good. How can I end his life? But what’s the alternative, wait until he’s miserable and it’s critical? I also am sure he’s living in a level of discomfort every day given the omeprazole makes a slight difference to his temperament. But I don’t know how much pain he’s in, he is SUCH a brave, stoic little horse. I see the odd eye expression that makes me think he’s in pain, but it’s gone in a flash and then I watch him leaping around and just question how the heck I can put him down. Many of us live in pain every day but I have no true idea of how much he’s in, what’s acceptable.

I don’t know how long he’d have if I get him through another winter. It could be he stabilizes and could have years ahead of him. Or it could be I’d get him through winter to need to PTS anyway. I just don’t know.

I am also extremely frightened about what losing him is going to do to me. That will never factor into my decision because I only ever want to do the right thing for HIM, but I don’t know if my brain then tries to justify keeping him going.

I just don’t know what to do and this felt like a far away problem in April but now it feels very close. I wish I could ask him. I’ve been away for nearly a week and am going back to the UK for 2/3 weeks, I thought some distance would help clarify but when I swung back to Denver last night to see him before leaving again it just made me so upset.

Pic of him from last night

 

[j1ffy]

Oh Michen - I really don't envy your position.

I think you need to not only think about the feeling of him no longer being there, but also the mental health impact of keeping him going. The constant anxiety and rollercoaster of his health will surely have taken its toll, particularly with everything else you have been through.

It's easy to say as an objective bystander but I feel PTS is the kindest, and surest, option for you both. He won't know any better and it will save you both a lot of stress (as well as his likely discomfort) through the winter.

HHO will support any decision you take, with plenty of virtual hugs added for good measure.

 

[splashgirl45]

Only you can decide. If it was me I don’t think I could PTS unless I was sure he would deteriorate in the winter. He still sounds full of life and enjoying himself and where he is now seems perfect for him. If the only thing stopping you keeping him there is difficulty for people to get there , could you find somewhere similar for the winter, maybe not close enough for you to do a daily visit but accessible for grooms/vet and then bring him back I the summer .. I don’t envy you but whatever you decide I know it will be in his best interest and not yours, you know we are all behind you whatever you decide .. x

 

[Tarragon]

It will be so hard for you to PTS, at any time, but you may be surprised by the sense of a weight being lifted once it is done, and a sense of freedom. You have been under huge pressure for years now, and as far as the lovely Bog goes, he only knows what he has now and absolutely no sense of future, so it will make no difference to him.

 

[Michen]

Only you can decide. If it was me I don’t think I could PTS unless I was sure he would deteriorate in the winter. He still sounds full of life and enjoying himself and where he is now seems perfect for him. If the only thing stopping you keeping him there is difficulty for people to get there , could you find somewhere similar for the winter, maybe not close enough for you to do a daily visit but accessible for grooms/vet and then bring him back I the summer .. I don’t envy you but whatever you decide I know it will be in his best interest and not yours, you know we are all behind you whatever you decide .. x

Not really annoyingly. These private barns to rent are like hens teeth… I was really really lucky to find someone so generous. People who have horse properties here don’t need the money from renting it if it’s unused

I will definitely keep an eye out though.

 

[Michen]

The other thing is if I don’t PTS, what do I do medically? Inject the neck again? Continue with oral steroids?

 

[splashgirl45]

The other thing is if I don’t PTS, what do I do medically? Inject the neck again? Continue with oral steroids?

Can you have a frank discussion with your vet there or the one you trust in the UK to help you decide