Boggle- USA bound!

YourValentine

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I may be disappointing you all on the Morgan guys.. I noticed him occasionally resting his left hind but I was obviously distracted with everything going on with him. Just found photos from him at the in hand show from the week before and where he’s stood up he’s resting it like this. It doesn’t look like a moment in time when he was moving around type thing, he looks relaxed in the photo and stood up.

I feel like I’ve learned over the years that if you see something suspicious it usually means there is something going on and not just paranoia! Not sure whether to proceed with the vetting and just widen the x rays from back to hocks, stifle, fetlocks. But seems almost silly to vet a horse where you are expecting to find a problem? That said the vetting isn’t mega money even with a bunch of additional x rays. But it wouldn’t rule out an SI problem or similar.

Of course it could just be a stone bruise 🤷‍♀️ Bog as a baby had his right hind resting like that and it was seedy toe that needed a big resection.

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I would flag your concern with vet, get them to look very carefully at both back legs and the one you are concerned about. Adding hock x-rays doesn't seem excessive.

Looking at his hoof I'm that photo it could be a foot issue.

Or back soreness as he is weak and had a poorly fitting saddle.

But appreciate not wanting to take a gamble.
 

Michen

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You sound like you are going off of him , which is ok. How would you feel if you didn’t go ahead? Perhaps it’s too soon to think of getting another while Bog is so well … just a thought , ignore if I’m talking rubbish 🙂

I’m not going off him, I’d really love him to pass, and I do really want something to play with a bit over winter. I’m just trying to not be a complete idiot haha! I think I’m going to vet but throw a few more x rays into the mix assuming he has passed the flexions etc. It seems silly to x ray so extensively a horse at his price but in UK money including transport he’s still not cheap albeit not 5 figures, so it’s maybe not that silly.

Bog doing well in some ways makes me want another horse more because if I’m slogging here over winter to keep Bog happy, I may as well have a potential riding horse in the barn too! Or ya know, two, cos there’s two empty stalls 🤣 joking, joking…
 

Michen

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I would flag your concern with vet, get them to look very carefully at both back legs and the one you are concerned about. Adding hock x-rays doesn't seem excessive.

Looking at his hoof I'm that photo it could be a foot issue.

Or back soreness as he is weak and had a poorly fitting saddle.

But appreciate not wanting to take a gamble.

Yep I’m speaking with the vetting vet beforehand. I will proceed, I’d be a bit gutted to walk away at this point tbh!
 

splashgirl45

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Well you’ve answered my questions and sound more positive , so hopefully you will soon have another horse to play with, I’ve got fingers crossed for a good vetting , once you’ve got him home I’m sure he will start to look much more like a Michen horse. Look what a difference you made to Dusty in such a short time .. good luck
 

Michen

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Tricky. Any other photos with him doing that? How did he feel under saddle?

Nope but I don’t have any others stood still really. He’s not doing it in any of the videos I have of him where I’m leaning over I don’t think but I’ll check again. But I did vaguely clock it I think at the end of the “session” I rode him for only a few minutes under saddle as tbh the saddle was so awful and we’d been with him for hours by that point. It was literally like riding a just backed baby- as in backed that day!

I didn’t feel good doing much with a horse where my weight was on a saddle that was digging into him.
 

Michen

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Well you’ve answered my questions and sound more positive , so hopefully you will soon have another horse to play with, I’ve got fingers crossed for a good vetting , once you’ve got him home I’m sure he will start to look much more like a Michen horse. Look what a difference you made to Dusty in such a short time .. good luck

A michen horse- I love that haha! Thank you. Rang the vet and threw a few more x rays in.
 

Pinkvboots

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In better news Bogs feet are ice cold and no pulses so he got 20 mins out on grass whilst I mucked out this morning.

You’ve got to love a horse that despite that being the most turnout he’s had in a few days, still comes to call to bring in 💕

Glad his better today it's amazing even a few days off grass and just being mindful can make such a difference 😍
 

Pinkvboots

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Nope but I don’t have any others stood still really. He’s not doing it in any of the videos I have of him where I’m leaning over I don’t think but I’ll check again. But I did vaguely clock it I think at the end of the “session” I rode him for only a few minutes under saddle as tbh the saddle was so awful and we’d been with him for hours by that point. It was literally like riding a just backed baby- as in backed that day!

I didn’t feel good doing much with a horse where my weight was on a saddle that was digging into him.
That saddle didn't look great and any sort of soreness in his back may cause him to want to rest his legs maybe?
 
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Roxylola

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I think you are understandably keen to protect yourself after all the heartbreak. But, realistically if you look hard enough you're going to find _something_ on any horse. By all means vet the horse thoroughly, but even with the cleanest of x rays the best of flexions etc etc a horse can still go wrong just standing in a field. They're fragile.
Ultimately, spend what you can afford and set a line for treating and investigating issues and injuries as and when they occur.
It could be something as simple as habit making him a little asymmetrical and a little inclined to stand resting that foot - a bit like the way people fold their arms one way or another and never vary, or it could be something like thrush, or something which with the work you'll do will never come to anything anyway
Don't trouble trouble til trouble troubles you 😉
 

Michen

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I think you are understandably keen to protect yourself after all the heartbreak. But, realistically if you look hard enough you're going to find _something_ on any horse. By all means vet the horse thoroughly, but even with the cleanest of x rays the best of flexions etc etc a horse can still go wrong just standing in a field. They're fragile.
Ultimately, spend what you can afford and set a line for treating and investigating issues and injuries as and when they occur.
It could be something as simple as habit making him a little asymmetrical and a little inclined to stand resting that foot - a bit like the way people fold their arms one way or another and never vary, or it could be something like thrush, or something which with the work you'll do will never come to anything anyway
Don't trouble trouble til trouble troubles you 😉


This is good advice thank you. Luckily I am spending about a third of what I intended to spend but he's still twice as much as the most expensive horse I've ever bought! So it's kinda weird lol.

We will see what the vetting brings...
 

southerncomfort

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M - if he's reactive and nervous, could it be what I've seen described as a 'running leg', I.e rather than resting a foot, it's about being ready to run.

I've seen it in a lot of youngsters that have been rushed. On the surface they are doing everything asked of them, but they are actually holding on to a lot of anxiety.
 

palo1

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M - if he's reactive and nervous, could it be what I've seen described as a 'running leg', I.e rather than resting a foot, it's about being ready to run.

I've seen it in a lot of youngsters that have been rushed. On the surface they are doing everything asked of them, but they are actually holding on to a lot of anxiety.
Indeed - I have seen this with rushed/poorly prepared youngsters - there can be a great deal of tension which results in this exact leg 'resting' position. One of our sharper hill ponies did this whilst being started, and in fact, she always struggled to relax: she was a dominant mare that we had hoped might work for one of our children but she was always rather too sharp so she went back to the hill. OH really liked her - clever, hot and sensitive and once she was more confident she was brilliant but was never going to be a suitable pony for a 10 year old! This completely reminds me of her!
 

Caol Ila

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Indeed - I have seen this with rushed/poorly prepared youngsters - there can be a great deal of tension which results in this exact leg 'resting' position. One of our sharper hill ponies did this whilst being started, and in fact, she always struggled to relax: she was a dominant mare that we had hoped might work for one of our children but she was always rather too sharp so she went back to the hill. OH really liked her - clever, hot and sensitive and once she was more confident she was brilliant but was never going to be a suitable pony for a 10 year old! This completely reminds me of her!

Yes, totally agree with palo1 and southerncomfort. Hermosa did a bit of that when she had her crash course in handling after I bought her (as you know, the breeder did zero handling of her youngstock, and I had no idea WTF I was doing with an unhandled horse because I'd never had one before), and Fin still does when he is unsure of something. The wild pony instincts are strong. I have seen tons of photos of his feral herd on the estate, and they are all looking at the photographer with one leg pointed, just like that. It's actually difficult to find photos where they're not standing with a 'running leg.' But they're wary of people, and so if someone is there shooting photos, then they will be on edge.

He stands like that even under mild tension. I think it's a habit now from living in pure survival mode for so long, though he does it a bit less these days.

It enables the horse to get out of dodge fractionally quicker than it would if both hind feet were firmly planted on the ground.
 

CanteringCarrot

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Yes, totally agree with palo1 and southerncomfort. Hermosa did a bit of that when she had her crash course in handling after I bought her (as you know, the breeder did zero handling of her youngstock, and I had no idea WTF I was doing with an unhandled horse because I'd never had one before), and Fin still does when he is unsure of something. The wild pony instincts are strong. I have seen tons of photos of his feral herd on the estate, and they are all looking at the photographer with one leg pointed, just like that. It's actually difficult to find photos where they're not standing with a 'running leg.' But they're wary of people, and so if someone is there shooting photos, then they will be on edge.

He stands like that even under mild tension. I think it's a habit now from living in pure survival mode for so long, though he does it a bit less these days.

It enables the horse to get out of dodge fractionally quicker than it would if both hind feet were firmly planted on the ground.

That makes sense. Mine used to do it when he was younger and I really don't see him do it anymore. He's also got more training, handling, and confidence now, so could be that.
 

Michen

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I’d never even heard of that being a thing! Thank you for the info. Will see what the vetting brings. And if he vets ok but then is not right I’m fully prepared to lose my money as you should always be with horses.

I hate this waiting for a vetting rubbish, it’s also proving to be a nightmare to organise getting him to the USA unless I want to wait until end of October. At the moment the best option is looking like I will drive to Texas instead of flying to a team meeting in 3 weeks time with my trailer, then drive Dallas- Kansas afterwards to pick him up from a holding stables there where he would have been left the day before. Kinda ridiculous! 12 hours Colorado to Dallas, 6 hours Dallas to Wichita, 8 hours Wichita to Colorado. There’s only two trucks that go where I am and no options until almost into November, as he will miss the next truck because the health papers to travel post vetting have to be signed by a federal vet which takes a week.

In the meantime I am pre work hiking with pepper to try and forget the whole thing 🤣 horses are covered this am so nice to have a break.


IMG_2285.jpeg
 

myheartinahoofbeat

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I’d never even heard of that being a thing! Thank you for the info. Will see what the vetting brings. And if he vets ok but then is not right I’m fully prepared to lose my money as you should always be with horses.

I hate this waiting for a vetting rubbish, it’s also proving to be a nightmare to organise getting him to the USA unless I want to wait until end of October. At the moment the best option is looking like I will drive to Texas instead of flying to a team meeting in 3 weeks time with my trailer, then drive Dallas- Kansas afterwards to pick him up from a holding stables there where he would have been left the day before. Kinda ridiculous! 12 hours Colorado to Dallas, 6 hours Dallas to Wichita, 8 hours Wichita to Colorado. There’s only two trucks that go where I am and no options until almost into November, as he will miss the next truck because the health papers to travel post vetting have to be signed by a federal vet which takes a week.

In the meantime I am pre work hiking with pepper to try and forget the whole thing 🤣 horses are covered this am so nice to have a break.


View attachment 146200
Lovely to see gorgeous Pepper
 

little_critter

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It’ll all work out if it’s meant to I really believe that :)
I’m not usually one for this sort of stuff, but I believe this too.
When I was buying last time I found a horse that ticked most of my boxes, he was a sensible buy but he didn’t make my heart sing.
Luckily he dismally failed the vet, and just a week later I found my beautiful T.
I got “that” feeling and joked to my vet pleeeease don’t fail this one.
 

Northern Hare

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I may be disappointing you all on the Morgan guys.. I noticed him occasionally resting his left hind but I was obviously distracted with everything going on with him. Just found photos from him at the in hand show from the week before and where he’s stood up he’s resting it like this. It doesn’t look like a moment in time when he was moving around type thing, he looks relaxed in the photo and stood up.

I feel like I’ve learned over the years that if you see something suspicious it usually means there is something going on and not just paranoia! Not sure whether to proceed with the vetting and just widen the x rays from back to hocks, stifle, fetlocks. But seems almost silly to vet a horse where you are expecting to find a problem? That said the vetting isn’t mega money even with a bunch of additional x rays. But it wouldn’t rule out an SI problem or similar.

Of course it could just be a stone bruise 🤷‍♀️ Bog as a baby had his right hind resting like that and it was seedy toe that needed a big resection.

View attachment 146121
That's an interesting photo Michen. This is the same stance a horse I had years ago took when stood still. I got it checked out several times because although he wasn't lame on it it just didn't look right to me. In the end he did go lame on it and it was the annular ligament which runs around the back of the fetlock joint above the sesamoid bone. He went to Rossdales but they didn't feel surgery was needed, and by that time he was just hacking anyway so after field rest and rehab he was ok to hack.
 

Ossy2

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That's an interesting photo Michen. This is the same stance a horse I had years ago took when stood still. I got it checked out several times because although he wasn't lame on it it just didn't look right to me. In the end he did go lame on it and it was the annular ligament which runs around the back of the fetlock joint above the sesamoid bone. He went to Rossdales but they didn't feel surgery was needed, and by that time he was just hacking anyway so after field rest and rehab he was ok to hack.
I agree on this and maybe share your observations. I recently viewed a horse that was resting hind in stable when we got there, was resting it again when in the tie stall being tacked up and then again when we went back to untack. It was something I noted mentally and enough to have in back of mind. The horse was still doing it when I came to vet. But she Passed everything with flying colours until the last 2 X-rays of the fetlock on that hind leg, where it was found she had a chip in the sesamoid bone. She was young, unproven and wasn’t cheap and I had to walk away. The two might not have been related but seemed too coincidental for me. I think your view of being aware of it and doing extra X-rays seems logical
 

Michen

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Thank you both. It’s so tricky! In truth if this was an expensive vetting like the one I just did in the UK (sending my vet from miles away) I’d probably have called it.

I suppose I feel I’m protecting myself with x rays but that wouldn’t rule out soft tissue…

The vet should ring me today so I’ll raise it with him.

Hmmm this is really hard. I am feeling more uneasy about it with that leg as we get closer to the vet. Though I did find a video of him doing it on the other hind which made me feel a little better 🤣 Of course on HHO you’ll always get a variety of experiences, some bad and some ok, when presenting a “thing”. I also want them to run the bloods for any pain relief and then you kind of get into the thing of well if your already checking x y z because of feel/gut/intuition whatever it is- then is this really a good idea!?

Definitely growing up I’m sure I wouldn’t have thought like this in my twenties ;)
 
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nutjob

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Do you have any video of walk / trot, either with you on board or lead / lunged. I will try to pm you with a video of one which I viewed which had an issue with hind legs.
 

Moobli

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I’d never even heard of that being a thing! Thank you for the info. Will see what the vetting brings. And if he vets ok but then is not right I’m fully prepared to lose my money as you should always be with horses.

I hate this waiting for a vetting rubbish, it’s also proving to be a nightmare to organise getting him to the USA unless I want to wait until end of October. At the moment the best option is looking like I will drive to Texas instead of flying to a team meeting in 3 weeks time with my trailer, then drive Dallas- Kansas afterwards to pick him up from a holding stables there where he would have been left the day before. Kinda ridiculous! 12 hours Colorado to Dallas, 6 hours Dallas to Wichita, 8 hours Wichita to Colorado. There’s only two trucks that go where I am and no options until almost into November, as he will miss the next truck because the health papers to travel post vetting have to be signed by a federal vet which takes a week.

In the meantime I am pre work hiking with pepper to try and forget the whole thing 🤣 horses are covered this am so nice to have a break.


View attachment 146200
Amazing dog walking scenery 😍
 
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