CDJ withdrawn from paris

[Abacus]

She has brought this on herself and that was by no means the first time she has used that as a training method. That is evident.

But no, it is NOT evident. It is by no means proven that she has done this before or since. There are some indications, yes, in that video - but not the proof that you state. You need to be very careful to distinguish between fact and opinion - I echo the above poster who calls for her not to be tried and convicted by social media.

 

[Miss_Millie]

But no, it is NOT evident. It is by no means proven that she has done this before or since. There are some indications, yes, in that video - but not the proof that you state. You need to be very careful to distinguish between fact and opinion - I echo the above poster who calls for her not to be tried and convicted by social media.

'This is so shit at hitting' (referring to the whip) would suggest that she has used more 'effective' hitting implements before...

 

[Abacus]

'This is so shit at hitting' (referring to the whip) would suggest that she has used more 'effect' hitting implements before...

By your own words, it suggests. It doesn’t prove.

 

[SibeliusMB]

I think over the next 6 to 12 months we're going to learn a LOT about whether this was a one off incident or not. If others have video evidence of CDJ conducting herself this way, it will start to come forward. Even without video, it wouldn't be surprising if people come out with testimony.

But I also agree this is probably not an isolated incident or lapse of judgment.

 

[Honey08]

That’s the thing that’s angering people really - she portrayed herself as a paragon, a new type of dressage rider, with horses that lived out and had a much better experience. And she was a face of World Horse Welfare.. If you set yourself up as that and you’re not, then when it comes out you’re going to fall harder.

 

[Burnttoast]

I think over the next 6 to 12 months we're going to learn a LOT about whether this was a one off incident or not. If others have video evidence of CDJ conducting herself this way, it will start to come forward. Even without video, it wouldn't be surprising if people come out with testimony.

But I also agree this is probably not an isolated incident or lapse of judgment.

I would like this to be so but I'm not sure it will happen like that. It didn't with Helgstrand. People with the kind of access to make this sort of footage are insiders and the vast majority of them want to stay that way. Covert filming, as with farming and abattoirs, might be the only way to really get informative data on this kind of behaviour.

 

[Rowreach]

Also worth remembering that this wasn’t a behind closed doors/what happens on the yard stays on the yard incident …

 

[Miss_Millie]

By your own words, it suggests. It doesn’t prove.

If the cap fits...

 

[PapaverFollis]

Just lurking and reading through... was the rider in the video a minor? Someone said "kid".

 

[Bellaboo18]

Just lurking and reading through... was the rider in the video a minor? Someone said "kid".

Yes, at time of the recording

 

[saalsk]

The abuse aside - I was beyond shocked seeing the video. The timing aside - of course it was timed to cause a specific effect.

I am disappointed. So disappointed. She was meant to be the Nice One. The one that we all thought taught and rode her horses with kindness, not whips and spurs. I feel stupid, and duped, for believing it.

I don't however, wish the entire life changing catastrophic life melt down that must her world at the moment, on anyone.

We are naive if we think it is not something that goes on with many people, top or not. She got caught, and wow is she going to pay the price. Horse sport in general is going to pay a price. Should she ? yes. Is she going to take a huge hit for a lot of people doing the same thing - yes.

Who is the loser ? the horse and all the others getting the same treatment, while people don't speak out.

I'd say my horses are getting extra hugs tonight, but they are so hugged, treated, spoiled and fluffed, I doubt they'd notice.

 

[Sanversera]

Child safeguarding comes into the equation surely? Not safe for a minor to be having a lesson with a horse abuser using a whip on the horse while the child is riding it.

 

[Upthecreek]

I can’t find any sympathy for Charlotte at all. That’s not to say that I agree with people making vile comments or threats because I don’t. These days surely everyone is aware that anything they are doing could possibly be being recorded, either covertly or not? And within seconds it can be shared with the world on social media. What did she think would be the consequence of this kind of behaviour being made public? Or was she too arrogant to even consider the possibility that it might happen?

 

[Barlow]

Who were her sponsors? I lose track.

According to her PR management:


Obviously hasn’t been updated in light of recent events…

 

[Honey08]

Anyone want to précis what pH says?

It was just that she’d worked alongside Charlotte, trained with her, and she’d never seen anything like that behaviour.
I saw her on something else saying more, but I can’t remember it properly.

 

[SO1]

Did she actually say this I don't think the sound on the video is good enough to really confirm this.

'This is so shit at hitting' (referring to the whip) would suggest that she has used more 'effective' hitting implements before...

 

[Equi]

Did she actually say this I don't think the sound on the video is good enough to really confirm this.

She does say that. she also says (after the rider does say something but I can’t make it out) “it cracks so you don’t have to whip ‘em”

 

[Miss_Millie]

Did she actually say this I don't think the sound on the video is good enough to really confirm this.

It is perfectly audible to me.

 

[Sandstone1]

Did she actually say this I don't think the sound on the video is good enough to really confirm this.

I thought she said " Im so shit at hittiing hard" could be wrong though.

 

[Equi]

Having listened again multiple times I can hear

C “This is so s*it at hitting em hard”
Rider “is it on his leg”
C “it cracks so you (or possibly it) don’t have to whip em”

I could of course be very wrong in all that. But that is just what I hear.

 

[paddy555]

But no, it is NOT evident. It is by no means proven that she has done this before or since. There are some indications, yes, in that video - but not the proof that you state. You need to be very careful to distinguish between fact and opinion - I echo the above poster who calls for her not to be tried and convicted by social media.

the balance of probability is that this has happened before however you are correct there is no proof. Does that matter? there is proof in this video that she has done it once. How many repeats are necessary.

 

[lynz88]

Did she actually say this I don't think the sound on the video is good enough to really confirm this.

I couldn't hear nor see properly on my laptop but it's clear from my mobile.

She does say that. she also says (after the rider does say something but I can’t make it out) “it cracks so you don’t have to whip ‘em”

I heard the same. Again, very very hard to hear on my laptop but perfectly clear on my phone.

 

[EternalVetBills]

I have put my headphones in and turned the volume up as far as I can to try and hear better (rip my eardrums, that whip cracking has done them in!)
From what I heard, and I may be very wrong, it was

CDJ "This is so s*it at hitting 'em hard"
Rider "something something hurt him" is what I heard. Perhaps does it hurt him?
The CDJ "it cracks so you don't have to whip 'em" which is a strange thing to say when you've just complained in the previous breath that the tool you're using to inflict harm on an animal isn't doing it well enough

 

[Nonjumper]

What a damned depressing thought that is. So basically you are saying nothing changes? Can you clarify why you think this is the case, do you have insider knowledge that may not be in the public domain?

Because, like it or not, it's what happens in all sports and has done for decades. Sponsors only really care about whether the person they sponsor gives them wide public exposure. It's why they will pay millions over the years to successful athletes and big occasions. They will only drop someone if the hits the fan, and sometimes not even then. But dropping athletes is just a PR stunt. Truth is they probably don't really care despite their "oh isn't it awful" statements that get released.

A quick Google will bring up a number of high profile athletes who got dropped when found out in wrong doing only for the old sponser to come creeping back or new sponsors take over after time has moved on a bit and the furor has died down. For example:

Tiger Woods:
Had an affair, all but one sponsor (Nike) dropped him like a hot potato. Now has just as many sponsors as before.

Maria Sharipova
Took drugs - suspended for 2 years.
Dropped by three sponsors, two stuck by her, a few more came on board once she started competing again.

Michael Vick
Ran a dogfighting ring.
Lost all his sponsors was suspended from sport and went to jail.
Upon leaving jail he resumed his sports career and the sponsors quickly returned.

Adrian Peterson
Child abuse. Sponsors all dropped him. Upon his return he quickly found sponsorship again.

Wayne Rooney
had an affair but was only dropped by his main sponsor after a rant. Other sponsors stuck by him.

I could go on ...

There are dozens, probably hundreds of such instances across the world of sport where things a 'mild' as having a roving eye to full on abuse and even murder leads to sponsors first of all running, then coming back once the dust has settled. In CDJs case it will depend on what sentence the FEI hands down. I personally don't think she'll get anything like what EL received for electrocuting his horses.

​

 

[Bruce17]

The riders voice, whatever she says, sounds panicked to me. I'd certainly be panicking if someone was whacking a horse I was sat on like that.

The person videoing, or the person next to them, sounds to have an Australian accent to me?

 

[HuskyFluff]

I feel very sad this evening. I've been uncomfortable with dressage for a long time, and one of the apparent 'good guys' being caught doing this makes me feel there's no hope for the sport.

I've just seen a post on fb that names the person filming/whistleblowing. I know there are questions about timing etc, but I'm not sure that's right.

 

[Nonjumper]

A comparison is the MT video - I dont recall that going beyond horsey publications, I know he isn't British, but he was still a highly successful sportsman
o these yards to see what goes on. Nothing announced as of course, the "methods" would be very carefully chosen on the day of the visit if they knew

It was all over the news at the time.

 

[Nancykitt]

Just read a post on Facebook:
"Looking at the video it is not as shocking as I expected. There is a battle of wills between Charlotte and the horse and she cracks the whip to make him lift his legs higher in canter than he wants to, hence him kicking out. But what she is doing is not hurting him; horses are huge strong animals and it takes a lot to hurt them."

Seriously, I'm beyond horrified that anyone would post that 'it takes a lot to hurt' horses.

Comment goes on:
"She is pressurising him but not abusing him. The rider clearly goes along with it otherwise she would have left the arena. A person behind the video is chuckling so they are clearly not appalled by what they are seeing. Athletes, whether human or equine have to work harder and do better if they are going to win medals. If they can’t take the pressure they have to step down. Some horses can do the movements more easily than others and those are the ones that win. But be assured, they wouldn’t comply if they didn’t want to. A horse can always run away, bolt, rear and buck off even the best rider if it wants to."

Lots of people are agreeing with these comments. One says that they could 'easily have done twice as bad' to their horse. And then the OP says something about those who disagree with her - 'A lot of do-gooders who don’t know anything about horses.'

It's stuff like this that really does sicken me.

 

[Shadowmere]

Yeah, I don't believe that's a "one-off loss of temper"... she looks perfectly calm and the horse doesn't seem to be doing anything wrong. I don't understand what she's even trying to achieve? It's not helping the horse understand the objective any better, it's just bullying for the sake of it.
I used to get goosebumps watching her and Valegro performing together, it all just seems so hollow now.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I totally agree cauda equine. There have been many deaths at Appleby over the years, from drownings to horse worked so exhaustion and death. Nothing has changed and I wonder how many people even remember there was at least one this year, certainly not the general public.

There isn't an official body in charge of Appleby, or any other similar event, so we have to rely on RSPCA, to police welfare standards associated with them
I would hope that FEI/BD will step up rather more proactively and train dressage judges to recognise uncomfortable, tense horses and mark them down.