CDJ withdrawn from paris

[little_critter]

Anyone who can afford to keep them to ride by definition can afford to keep them as pets. Whether they might want to is a separate matter.

Exactly. A non ridden horse costs the same (possibly less) than a ridden horse to keep.
However, I agree that few people would purchase a horse with the intention of it not being ridden.

 

[Burnttoast]

Exactly. A non ridden horse costs the same (possibly less) than a ridden horse to keep.
However, I agree that few people would purchase a horse with the intention of it not being ridden.

Yes the second part is true I'm sure. I'm one of the few who (if my health allowed, sadly it doesn't) would willingly follow up on my retired guy with a herd of rescue minis (except that my vet threatened never to visit again if I did that )

 

[EventingMum]

How Many Horses Died in WW1 and WW2? Millions of animals served in both wars but died because of thirst, wounds, diseases, and starvation. Over 8 Million horses in WW1 and 0.7 million in WW2 died, any left killled and eaten, and how many couldn't be bothered to get off their backsides to go and vote, after all the sacrifice, so many so called animal lovers didn't have the respect to go and use their hard won vote, any media outcry........no...,,maybe whilst the country is apologising for something our ancestors did 200 years ago, maybe it could apologise for all the animal abuse and suffering caused, you know, just whilst everyone is being all high and mighty and all that.

All year every year, particularly at Appleby, horse/ponies ridden at too young an age, raced up and down on hard surfaces shouted at and whipped, forced into the river with two riders on, heads pushed under the water, waiting for the outcry............no....why is that ?, waiting.....

I'm all for animal abuse being exposed, and the individual being held to account and dealt with accordingly, but the "selective" crucifying of one individual, just at this "particular" moment in time totally stinks.

Re Appleby, there definitely needs to be action taken regarding horse welfare there, unfortunately a major part of the problem is that it concerns a certain sector of society who are feared by a lot of people or if criticised it's said to be bigotry. Their treatment of animals is usually seen as ignorance/lack of education however, with CDJ that is not the case. She has been looked up to and presented herself as an educated, skilled rider and trainer.

 

[Breather]

Has anyone seen any comments from The British Horse Society about CDJ?

 

[lannerch]

I have not read all the posts there’s far too many .

But my take is the abuse is horrifyingly and I could never condone it , but she cannot train her horses regularly this way as she we old never get the results and harmony she does with them , and her horses always look totally relaxed .

She is being punished and quite right too , I suspect the worst of any punishment is the fact that she has had to pull out of the olympics and only days before she was set to leave for Paris , this is something she has worked for for 4 years .

Let’s see what the FEI also do , suspect there is a lot more to follow .

 

[Skib]

Over 8 Million horses [died] in WW1 and 0.7 million in WW2 died,

I dont think this is right. I am a War historian. I dont have the reference with me here tonight with my mind on the Olympic games but I believe that more horses died in WW2 than in WW1.
Restrictions on German rearmament after WW1 meant that in WW2 the Germans invaded France with horses - and later retreated from Normandy also with horses.
On the Eastern front in WW2, the Russians used cavalry in conjunction with tanks and had military aid - truck chasis from USA and horses from Mongolia.

 

[ester]

I wouldnt worry too much skib, it's widely missing the point even for here.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Just skipped to the last page having read the first few originally. It’s taken off!

I’m not going to read it all, but just commenting the past few days that I’ve been asked so much about this the past day or so and there seems a pattern in opinions. I’ve
Everyone non horsey seems to be totally horrified and everyone horsey a bit “eww” maybe not condoning but not wanting to see her go down for this or and this is possibly the majority we have seen or done worse.

 

[Pedantic]

Charlotte is not being crucified. She has been suspended pending an investigation for abuse that she has been filmed doing. What do you suggest should have been done? Let her pop off to the Olympics and carry on as if nothing happened?

No, I expect the same spotlight treatment for all, not this selective media persecution.

 

[ester]

Surely spotlight on everyone is a bit complicated, it being a spotlight and all?

We'd have all liked parra/helgstrand/werth etc to be included but they aren't going to be of much interest to UK MSM are they?

 

[Jenko109]

Everyone non horsey seems to be totally horrified and everyone horsey a bit “eww” maybe not condoning but not wanting to see her go down for this or and this is possibly the majority we have seen or done worse.

Do you think it is in part because horse people already knew that this sort of thing goes on.

We know show jumpers get poles lifted to knock their legs. We know show ponies are left tied down all day.

So we are saddened when we actually see it, but we are not shocked to the same degree as someone non horsey who perhaps had no idea about any of these practices.

It is a sad reality, that where there is money and fame, there will be exploitation.

I do not believe that people who undertake such practices are inherently bad people. There was a time when they simply loved horses, just like everyone on this forum. Somewhere along the journey, they lost their way.

 

[Equi]

Perhaps there is an element of institutionalisation. But that can always be worked on. We can always do better. This whole thing starts with personal accountability and encouraging a wider accountability for our sport.

 

[Miss_Millie]

Anyone who can afford to keep them to ride by definition can afford to keep them as pets. Whether they might want to is a separate matter.

Agreed!

The definition of pet is 'a domestic or tamed animal kept for companionship or pleasure.' I see my horses as pets, both ridden and non-ridden. Both bring me a lot of happiness and companionship. The non-ridden are more affordable generally, as they don't need saddle fitting or the same amount of physio etc.

I understand that most people primarily own horses for riding, but that can be a problem in and of itself when the riding is put above welfare - e.g. youngsters carrying weight before they can manage it, because people want to ride asap.

I think that horse welfare would generally be better if people viewed horses as companions first and steeds second. I know that's never going to happen, but it would be nice.

 

[Upthecreek]

No, I expect the same spotlight treatment for all, not this selective media persecution.

Clearly someone not as well known is not going to attract the same attention from the media as someone who has won 6 Olympic medals, been an advocate for horse welfare and a role model for young riders. People get prosecuted for animal cruelty all the time and the fact they are not famous means that it’s not in the spotlight. I don’t know why anyone that prioritises horse welfare above all would think it’s a bad thing that this news has broken at this time.

 

[SantaVera]

Agreed!

The definition of pet is 'a domestic or tamed animal kept for companionship or pleasure.' I see my horses as pets, both ridden and non-ridden. Both bring me a lot of happiness and companionship. The non-ridden are more affordable generally, as they don't need saddle fitting or the same amount of physio etc.

I understand that most people primarily own horses for riding, but that can be a problem in and of itself when the riding is put above welfare - e.g. youngsters carrying weight before they can manage it, because people want to ride asap.

I think that horse welfare would generally be better if people viewed horses as companions first and steeds second. I know that's never going to happen, but it would be nice.

Mine are companions first and steeds second.

 

[SkylarkAscending]

Well on Twitter the comments relating to the horse and rider shown as part of the opening ceremony say it all.

I would not be surprised if irreparable damage has been done to equestrianism in the eyes of the general public

 

[Gloi]

Exactly. A non ridden horse costs the same (possibly less) than a ridden horse to keep.
However, I agree that few people would purchase a horse with the intention of it not being ridden.

Unless the horse was a working horse being kept to make money for the owner.

 

[little_critter]

Unless the horse was a working horse being kept to make money for the owner.

The vast majority of horses are a cost to their owners, not at asset.

 

[teapot]

I dont think this is right. I am a War historian. I dont have the reference with me here tonight with my mind on the Olympic games but I believe that more horses died in WW2 than in WW1.
Restrictions on German rearmament after WW1 meant that in WW2 the Germans invaded France with horses - and later retreated from Normandy also with horses.
On the Eastern front in WW2, the Russians used cavalry in conjunction with tanks and had military aid - truck chasis from USA and horses from Mongolia.

Some figures here by someone who works on horses in war https://lucybetteridgedyson.com/2020/11/04/straight-from-the-horses-mouth/

 

[lynz88]

Well on Twitter the comments relating to the horse and rider shown as part of the opening ceremony say it all.

I would not be surprised if irreparable damage has been done to equestrianism in the eyes of the general public

I don't have Twitter. What's the comments?

 

[FieldOrnaments]

Unless the horse was a working horse being kept to make money for the owner.

which very, very, few are nowadays in the UK

 

[poiuytrewq]

Do you think it is in part because horse people already knew that this sort of thing goes on.

We know show jumpers get poles lifted to knock their legs. We know show ponies are left tied down all day.

So we are saddened when we actually see it, but we are not shocked to the same degree as someone non horsey who perhaps had no idea about any of these practices.

It is a sad reality, that where there is money and fame, there will be exploitation.

I do not believe that people who undertake such practices are inherently bad people. There was a time when they simply loved horses, just like everyone on this forum. Somewhere along the journey, they lost their way.

Maybe. I don’t know, It’s just my observation as so many people have mentioned it and being on non horsey platforms, many more non horsey people are talking about it

 

[blitznbobs]

How Many Horses Died in WW1 and WW2? Millions of animals served in both wars but died because of thirst, wounds, diseases, and starvation. Over 8 Million horses in WW1 and 0.7 million in WW2 died, any left killled and eaten, and how many couldn't be bothered to get off their backsides to go and vote, after all the sacrifice, so many so called animal lovers didn't have the respect to go and use their hard won vote, any media outcry........no...,,maybe whilst the country is apologising for something our ancestors did 200 years ago, maybe it could apologise for all the animal abuse and suffering caused, you know, just whilst everyone is being all high and mighty and all that.

All year every year, particularly at Appleby, horse/ponies ridden at too young an age, raced up and down on hard surfaces shouted at and whipped, forced into the river with two riders on, heads pushed under the water, waiting for the outcry............no....why is that ?, waiting.....

I'm all for animal abuse being exposed, and the individual being held to account and dealt with accordingly, but the "selective" crucifying of one individual, just at this "particular" moment in time totally stinks.

The difference between war and a game is so incomparable as to be facile… one was to stop the genocide of an entire group of people the other is to get some shiny things to go on your wall….

 

[blitznbobs]

I have 9 horses and only 2 are ridden atm ( and one of those only light exercise to keep his hocks moving )

 

[honetpot]

How Many Horses Died in WW1 and WW2? Millions of animals served in both wars but died because of thirst, wounds, diseases, and starvation. Over 8 Million horses in WW1 and 0.7 million in WW2 died, any left killled and eaten, and how many couldn't be bothered to get off their backsides to go and vote, after all the sacrifice, so many so called animal lovers didn't have the respect to go and use their hard won vote, any media outcry........no...,,maybe whilst the country is apologising for something our ancestors did 200 years ago, maybe it could apologise for all the animal abuse and suffering caused, you know, just whilst everyone is being all high and mighty and all that.

All year every year, particularly at Appleby, horse/ponies ridden at too young an age, raced up and down on hard surfaces shouted at and whipped, forced into the river with two riders on, heads pushed under the water, waiting for the outcry............no....why is that ?, waiting.....

I'm all for animal abuse being exposed, and the individual being held to account and dealt with accordingly, but the "selective" crucifying of one individual, just at this "particular" moment in time totally stinks.

If you are talking about the 1914-18 war, I do not think human life was valued much more than equine. At that time the equine was for the majority was the work horse, my grandfather went down the pit at fourteen to look after pit ponies, and served in the 14-18 war and was lucky to come home with just shell shock, and went back down the pit. A lot didn't,

Casualties | WW 1

Chronology Slovenians in the WW1 Casualties Economy Art Food Refugees Prisoners of War World War 1 casualties The historical literature on World War I is still arguing about …

www.100letprve.si

The horse is pretty much now a companion animal, very few them are for work, and the majority of them that are worked are used for sport. I think most of us want the or equines to be safe and well looked after. What worries me is not the past, we can not change it, but the present, where people who have the control and influence seem not to be concerned about the animals they make their living from, as their objectives are more important than the animals welfare from conception and throughout its life.

Every year at Appleby there are concerns about horse welfare, and people try to improve things. If we are thinking about equines used for sport it happens on a weekly basis, there is a vast amount of money spent on it, and for large sponsers it sells a lifestyle, the influence so called elite riders have, can affect the attutudes of the average horse owner. I just hope that this make the average horse owner able to question trainers and say if needed what they are doing is wrong. They make money from us, and really with holding the £ is perhaps the most direct option to make changes.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

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Wayne Lourens, South African vet comment.

I'm in favour of ALL the support being given to
I'd love to have seen ALL the footage of what lead up to the incident videoed, to assess whether Charlotte's actions were according to the principles of "minimal force", which I feel they were, having myself been an observer of animal behaviour (INCLUDING Southern Africa's most dangerous wildlife, in multiple close encounters) since I was a young child.

Minimal force? Really?

 

[JenJ]

I'm in favour of ALL the support being given to
I'd love to have seen ALL the footage of what lead up to the incident videoed, to assess whether Charlotte's actions were according to the principles of "minimal force", which I feel they were, having myself been an observer of animal behaviour (INCLUDING Southern Africa's most dangerous wildlife, in multiple close encounters) since I was a young child.

Minimal force? Really?

Are they are likening the behaviour of the horse being whipped in the video to that of Southern Africa's most dangerous wildlife? And if not, why the hell mention it?

 

[criso]

The difference between war and a game is so incomparable as to be facile… one was to stop the genocide of an entire group of people the other is to get some shiny things to go on your wall….

If you're talking about WW1, the reasons behind it were less lofty but that's a discussion for another thread.

However these days even if modern warfare hadn't changed, I doubt the use of horses would be acceptable. There was enough controversy about the ones that got loose in London.

 

[Old school]

I don’t have X. Please, what was the gist of the comments?

 

[Fellewell]

Well, after four long years of umming and ahing I'm just glad that dressage has finally been saved

(and Germany are still going to win team gold)