humblepie
Well-Known Member
On the radio the other day in the religious thought for the day the person said abuse does not condemn use. That got me thinking.
CDJ withdrawn from paris
- Thread starter Zoeypxo
- Start date
Cortez
Tough but Fair
A separate caveson noseband is required/mandatory at FEI level, as are spurs and double bridle. A properly fitted caveson is 99% decorative; a crank*-type winched in as tight as it can go will stop a horse from being able to open it's mouth, which is unfortunately what most riders are doing. Stewards are supposed to check noseband tightness, but obviously they are not enforcing a standard, if there even is one.I don't have an answer and possibly "correctly fitted" comes very much into this noseband problem.
Cortez, with your experience it would be good if you could answer this point and explain what we (they) should be using on these high class dressage horses because I am lost.
*crank noseband are fine, as long as they're not.....cranked.
sbloom
Well-Known Member
I think a correctly fitted cavesson or no noseband should be equal options.
Crazy_cat_lady
Well-Known Member
Now people on the HH fb page are moaning about the blood rule being applied to cause that guy to get eliminated
Cortez
Tough but Fair
Cavessons have been in and out of fashion throughout history - most of the middle ages was without, as was early to late 19c (look at many old hunting prints).
sbloom
Well-Known Member
My boy had a big fat WB head, took a 6" bit but the only bit I could find him was an aurigan bradoon. He looked like a proper donut to many I expect, bless him, with no noseband and a tiny wee bit ring on him but it worked and I thought he looked rather dashing. I had already rejected flash nosebands long before but decided by that point a cavesson was just something else to clean.
FieldOrnaments
Well-Known Member
paisley
Well-Known Member
Possibly, and I agree it’s an invasive procedure and not the routine treatment such as magnetic rugs, physio, ice therapy etc. It wasn’t done without a lot of thought and on each instance in vet advice and avoided if possible. The horse was travelled abroad very rarely. So, yes to maintain a competitive career but not at all costs.
sbloom
Well-Known Member
Some things have to be a hard line and blood is one. I do get their point that a nick to the leg is less a welfare issue when they're still turning a blind eye to everything else.
blitznbobs
Well-Known Member
There is a standard there is even a tool to check it
Attachments
paddy555
Well-Known Member
is it a difficult tool to use? it really must be from the number of cases when officials apparently struggle to use it.
blitznbobs
Well-Known Member
I’ve used it it’s very simpleis it a difficult tool to use? it really must be from the number of cases when officials apparently struggle to use it.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
piebaldproblems
Well-Known Member
Paris 2024: Charlotte Dujardin video a 'huge shock' and she has 'paid very heavily', says Carl Hester
Carl Hester says the video of Charlotte Dujardin "excessively" whipping a horse is a "huge shock" and his long-time team-mate has "paid very heavily" for it.
www.bbc.co.uk
paddy555
Well-Known Member
what about where the noseband goes below the bit where it is really cranked in tight. It would be a real struggle to push it in there. In fact almost impossible. The Kineton that was on the horse's nostrils would also have a problem.
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
I bought my horse a new bridle and couldn’t find one locally without a crank flash. I took the flash part off and just used the crank adjusted correctly I.e.not tight and it seemed to fit her well and it’s padded all the way round so I V would think more comfortable than a normal cavesson. I ended up buying a separate cavesson as found the crank quite difficult to clean
blitznbobs
Well-Known Member
You push it under both parts at the bridge of the nose so there is 2 fingers between the lower band and the nose
blitznbobs
Well-Known Member
Crank nose bands done up correctly give more even pressure than not having one so they are a good thing if used correctly
paddy555
Well-Known Member
in this situation you have lots of choice where to push it.
I'm sure someone will tell me why this lot is needed. i
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
Paris 2024: Charlotte Dujardin video a 'huge shock' and she has 'paid very heavily', says Carl Hester
Carl Hester says the video of Charlotte Dujardin "excessively" whipping a horse is a "huge shock" and his long-time team-mate has "paid very heavily" for it.www.bbc.co.uk
that is not good enough and I don't believe him.
sbloom
Well-Known Member
I believe it's specifically for FEI dressage where all horses would be wearing a double/cavesson. I agree there need to be ways to check all nosebands at all levels.
palo1
Well-Known Member
Well she has paid with likely the loss of her career, through public humiliation, probably a degree of loss of identity and the sense that she is reviled by many who used to admire her. I think, in spite of how wrong she was to act in the way she did, that price will be very high to her. Her life will never be the same again though she may come to see some benefit to that if she can turn things around for the better.
I do understand empathy for her, even whilst thinking that she made choices that brought his down on her.
Miss_Millie
Well-Known Member
Paris 2024: Charlotte Dujardin video a 'huge shock' and she has 'paid very heavily', says Carl Hester
Carl Hester says the video of Charlotte Dujardin "excessively" whipping a horse is a "huge shock" and his long-time team-mate has "paid very heavily" for it.www.bbc.co.uk
A very disappointing response from Carl Hester.
Charlotte's behaviour was not exceptional within upper level training, she shouldn't be the scapegoat and it's outrageous that the likes of Isabell Werth have publicly condemned her behaviour, given her penchant for rollkur. I think we as a community were particularly shocked because of Charlotte's carefully curated PR image, but it isn't really that shocking when you think about how deep rooted physical abuse and punishment is in equestrian culture - at all levels. When you add competition to the mix, people will take all kinds of 'shortcuts' to win, at the expense of the animal.
That being said, do they take us for idiots, in no world will I ever believe that the video was a 'one-off' - she was calm, confident and practiced in her hitting of that horse. She even implied in the small amount of audio that she has hit horses in training before. Once again, I'm sure that she isn't just one bad apple, but I'm tired of the 'out of character' narrative.
Maybe there are other interviews, but at no point has Carl mentioned the welfare of the horse who was being abused in the video. Saying that it was 4 years ago and that people make mistakes is just more deflection. No I don't think he should 'cancel' her, I understand that they are close and that he wants to support her, but he should be honest to the public and state that her behaviour was entirely unethical and unacceptable.
I think it would be amazing if down the line, Charlotte used this opportunity to expose the industry for what it is, and to try and bring about significant and lasting change to improve the welfare of horses in competition. I think the FEI are the real villains at the heart of the corruption, all they care about is money and making horses move like bizarre automatons.
Pointless1
Well-Known Member
He is right you have to forgive people and if I thought that was a one off It would be easier to think of forgiveness. Sadly , I for one do not believe for one minute that it was the first time she's used a whip like that
It must be very difficult for him as obviously they are close friends. He's got to distance himself from what happened but also support his friend.
So much wrong with dressage and horse sports. Lots needs to change..
It must be very difficult for him as obviously they are close friends. He's got to distance himself from what happened but also support his friend.
So much wrong with dressage and horse sports. Lots needs to change..
equinerebel
Well-Known Member
What a shame. I know it must be very difficult for him, but his response reads more of singling CDJ out as a unique problem when the rot goes so much deeper.
PoppyAnderson
Well-Known Member
Charlotte had power and more profile than any other rider. She should have decided to be a true force for positive change and for good long before she was exposed. Anything going forwards will look somewhat hollow. She was an ambassador for The Brooke and made many videos highlighting the plight of horses, donkeys etc around the world, whilst at the same time, behind closed doors, was thrashing horses herself. I don't want to see her destroyed. Good people do bad things and one mistake doesn't define a whole person. I just don't see a way back for her into the limelight right now.
PoppyAnderson
Well-Known Member
What sounds unlikely? That if I name them that it'll be deleted or that it actually happens? If it's the latter, I can assure you it happens and I've seen it with my own eyes. A well known female GP dressage rider for one. Bar of soap shoved right into the horses mouth and rubbed all over the bit. It's a vile practice. She did at least have the good grace to apologise to the horse whilst she was doing it.....
Marshmallow fluff is used for a different reason.
blitznbobs
Well-Known Member
Did you report them?
PoppyAnderson
Well-Known Member
I reported them to a big sponsor of theirs at the time (kind of sponsor.....tv channel who featured them a lot). They replied and said they had no cause for concern.
blitznbobs
Well-Known Member
Was it not in a competition??