limestonelil
Well-Known Member
Edited, accidentally posted nothing.
CDJ withdrawn from paris
- Thread starter Zoeypxo
- Start date
eahotson
Well-Known Member
But banning nosebands would help a lot In western riding you can use any bit you like but no nosebands!
FieldOrnaments
Well-Known Member
any bit you like in western has led to some seriously awful contraptions being produced 
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Much of Western is diabolical 
There is more than one way to abuse a horse in the name of competition.
There is more than one way to abuse a horse in the name of competition.
eahotson
Well-Known Member
There is good riding in western and bad.I have seen some superb horsemanship and if you abuse the bit at least the horse can open its mouth and protest.Much of Western is diabolical
There is more than one way to abuse a horse in the name of competition.
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
Those western bits are very severe and the use of spurs over in the USA by tiny children is horrible especially in barrel racing and the spinning they do must be uncomfortable for the horses .. I’ve ridden western with the standard western bits and actually enjoyed it , even had a go at barrel racing but not at the speed I’ve seen others..
eahotson
Well-Known Member
Fair enough but I have just seen a video of a blind folded race horse,absolutely terrified,being dragged into the gates.Pot and kettle spring to mind
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
What are you trying to say?
eahotson
Well-Known Member
That there is good horsemanship/riding in all disciplines and poor horsemanship and riding in all disciplines.
Mrs. Jingle
Well-Known Member
Ahhh! good old whataboutery, of course that makes everything OK then. 
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
That’s pretty obvious, not sure why you quoted me to say it . One of the reasons I posted was exactly that after the bashing that dressage has got because of CDJ. I abhor ill treatment of all animals and we need to call it all out whichever discipline it is..
eahotson
Well-Known Member
So just call out western and ignore the rest.Ahhh! good old whataboutery, of course that makes everything OK then.
Mrs. Jingle
Well-Known Member
I have been following this thread from day one. I do not see any instance of 'ignoring the rest' anywhere on this thread. Obviously dressage has been the main focus because that is the discipline that is the subject of the thread. But other disciplines, tack, training methods, and other personalities have all been mentioned as having faults that we should all be aware of. I am not sure what you base your statement on that just western has been called out and everything else ignored.
sbloom
Well-Known Member
‘The horses don’t choose to take part’: should equestrian sports be removed from the Olympics?
A video of dressage champion Charlotte Dujardin whipping a horse caused shockwaves last week - and it wasn’t an isolated incident in the sport
YourValentine
Well-Known Member
Very good article, glad they referenced the Helgstrand documentary. But shows how precarious things are for equestrian sport at any level.‘The horses don’t choose to take part’: should equestrian sports be removed from the Olympics?
A video of dressage champion Charlotte Dujardin whipping a horse caused shockwaves last week - and it wasn’t an isolated incident in the sportwww.theguardian.com
I have to admit I'm really sad that Denmark are currently in team gold medal position.
SaddlePsych'D
Well-Known Member
Absolutely fair play here to Jenny Rudall (who is open about being a friend of CDJ), Ben Atkinson and Simon Grieve for taking on an uncomfortable conversation in a meaningful way, sticking with it even when it feels awful/awkward/upsetting/overwhelming to talk about.
And some really great points made so far; I'm about halfway through and they have raised how little interest people have shown in 'where is the horse now and how is it doing?', and how the conversations around it have been unhelpful (either abusing/annihilating Charlotte, or at the other end defending/excusing her actions or trying to wash over them completely).
Also appreciating the honesty that this is not isolated in the industry. I thought Ben also quite skilfully/kindly challenged how, although upsetting to lose the Olympics, that should actually not be the focus and we have much bigger problems in horse sport.
Kaylum
Well-Known Member
My friend was at a Liberty yard and well she didn't last long. I don't understand the Liberty stuff and probably never will.
blitznbobs
Well-Known Member
What’s to understand … it’s training horses with no tack …. And like training with tack can be done with or without abuse.
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
You must have missed the many posts previously which called out racing, and I’ve definitely mentioned show jumping on various threads , endurance has had a bashing (quite rightly) on other threads. I don’t think western has had much said about it but saying it’s good because there are no noseband doesn’t mean that they have less pain if yanked because they can open their mouths , the bits are severe which is why you have virtually no contact..
Burnttoast
Well-Known Member
I never did anything spectacular with liberty work but when I got my boy he was very angry and defensive about ropes particularly, couldn't be lunged or long-reined if you valued your life, and liberty was extremely useful in regaining some trust. He needed lameness work-ups so teaching him to be lunged again was necessary if I didn't want to run in a lot of circles myself. Also quite fun, and I later used it to help him with his fear of various everyday objects. Somewhere I have an amusing video of us running round the field with an umbrella. But it was always kept very positive because I was using it to reframe very negative experiences. Of course it would be possible to do it with a lot more pressure.
Sheep
Well-Known Member
‘The horses don’t choose to take part’: should equestrian sports be removed from the Olympics?
A video of dressage champion Charlotte Dujardin whipping a horse caused shockwaves last week - and it wasn’t an isolated incident in the sport
Good article for sure, a couple of minor inaccuracies but fundamentally this is the kind of view we need to take very, very seriously. Social licence is becoming a huge topic and we need to consider how it all comes across to an onlooker.
It’s a bit like the Strictly debate in some ways… I know sod all about dancing but I can recognise what may or may not look like abuse to a layperson.
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
Your bit about strictly is spot on and covers the argument by the shouts vet who says if you haven’t ridden at a certain level you don’t know what you are talking about .. I’m the same as you, I can’t dance but can see who is a good dancer and who is rubbish and could also spot any sort of abuse whether physical or verbal
Sheep
Well-Known Member
That’s it. And a bit like Strictly, it seems like it is endemic to the sport.
The pro dancers in Strictly have been brought up in that incredibly intense environment and had this kind of training hammered into them from a very young age, and ultimately become blind to it until Joe Public sees and suddenly we begin to realise how awful it can be.
And… in both Strictly and dressage, it has become incredibly competitive and people will really push and do whatever it takes to win.
Appreciate it’s a simplistic comparison but one that both horsy and non-horsy folks could understand!
Slightlyconfused
Go away, I'm reading
There is a stunt/liberty yard near me, does not have a good rep for those who kmow people who have worked there and two female friends who when for job trials were warned not to be alone with the owner...ever....they didn't stay on
Cloball
Well-Known Member
You could also compare it to gymnastics with the athletes being so young and indoctrinated into a system that is 'necessary' to win.
Burnttoast
Well-Known Member
Plenty of conventional yards with dodgy owners. Not sure what your point is here.
Sheep
Well-Known Member
Definitely - and it is something that is probably relatively widespread in competitive environments. It’s a terrible reality to confront.
But I think the difference is that, as bystanders, we’ve all had some closer and very recent insight, through media coverage, into how things are achieved eg in the world of dancing and dressage.
Slightlyconfused
Go away, I'm reading
Just adding to the point of its not just one yard/discipline like everyone else. And the abuse is not always directed to the horses either
Janique
Well-Known Member
What i can't understand is why the Danish riders how appared in the article, 3 of them with blue tongue horses
are in the lead in the dressage ?
Maybe, i am mistaken and they acted about it but how can the Danish Federation let them start ?
How could they start at the Olympics in the first place ? Or will they be invastigated later ?
What about the stewards at the game, can't they stop them if the horses show blue tongue ? Or are they blind ?
Surely, if they have blue tongue at the other competitions, they have it at the Olympics too ? Unless, they can hide them somehow ?
I might be a bit naîve but it seems incredible to me that no one can stop them taking part....
are in the lead in the dressage ?
Maybe, i am mistaken and they acted about it but how can the Danish Federation let them start ?
How could they start at the Olympics in the first place ? Or will they be invastigated later ?
What about the stewards at the game, can't they stop them if the horses show blue tongue ? Or are they blind ?
Surely, if they have blue tongue at the other competitions, they have it at the Olympics too ? Unless, they can hide them somehow ?
I might be a bit naîve but it seems incredible to me that no one can stop them taking part....
TheOldTrout
Completely Unknown Member
That article really annoyed me. The writer saying that horse sports are dressage, showjumping and cross country because they hadn't done the minimal amount of research to find out the correct names or that the blood that causes elimination doesn't necessarily come from abuse - could be accident, fly bite etc. Don't journalists do fact checks any more?‘The horses don’t choose to take part’: should equestrian sports be removed from the Olympics?
A video of dressage champion Charlotte Dujardin whipping a horse caused shockwaves last week - and it wasn’t an isolated incident in the sport