CDJ withdrawn from paris

[Sheep]

That article really annoyed me. The writer saying that horse sports are dressage, showjumping and cross country because they hadn't done the minimal amount of research to find out the correct names or that the blood that causes elimination doesn't necessarily come from abuse - could be accident, fly bite etc. Don't journalists do fact checks any more?

I agree there are some inaccuracies, however, we still need to sit up and pay attention - this is how horse sport may be perceived by the average person and that is where the concept of social licence becomes increasingly important

 

[splashgirl45]

What i can't understand is why the Danish riders how appared in the article, 3 of them with blue tongue horses
are in the lead in the dressage ?

Maybe, i am mistaken and they acted about it but how can the Danish Federation let them start ?

How could they start at the Olympics in the first place ? Or will they be invastigated later ?

What about the stewards at the game, can't they stop them if the horses show blue tongue ? Or are they blind ?

Surely, if they have blue tongue at the other competitions, they have it at the Olympics too ? Unless, they can hide them somehow ?

I might be a bit naîve but it seems incredible to me that no one can stop them taking part....

It’s easy to spot in a still photo and not so easy when they are moving, not saying it’s right but I can understand the stewards missing it. If they complete all of the movements in the test well their scores would be quite high even if the judges took off a mark for each movement BTV which causes blue tongue . Again not sure if the judges would see it while they are looking at the rest of the horse. Not excusing blue tongue at all. I feel they don’t mark opening mouths harshly enough and also haven’t seen any stewards checking the nose bands after the test. Maybe they should be looking for blue tongues but not sure how long a tongue would take to get back to normal , maybe after walking out it’s not showing anymore..

 

[lynz88]

But changing people is monumentally difficult and often not possible, whereas banning nosebands in competition is relatively very simple and a step forward for a lot of horses.

Change only happens when done from the top. And that starts with banning things and changing the test/judging criteria. Even then there is a good chance that it won't change training in private but it might change at least a few. It all starts with a few and baby step changes. Changing people and behaviours is HARD and requires being very strict in what is and isn't ok which may also require the re-training of judges and monitoring how they are judging. It is hard enough in a large organization let alone an entire discipline/industry.

 

[TheOldTrout]

I agree there are some inaccuracies, however, we still need to sit up and pay attention - this is how horse sport may be perceived by the average person and that is where the concept of social licence becomes increasingly important

Surely that makes it all the more important that the article's accurate? To give the average person a better, more accurate perception of horse sport?

 

[Sheep]

Surely that makes it all the more important that the article's accurate? To give the average person a better, more accurate perception of horse sport?

Well yes, but it’s already out there so there’s not much I can do about it now

My point is that this article probably sums up the viewpoint of many bystanders who cannot understand why certain things are done.
It cannot be as simple as just rebuking those comments by saying “oh it isn’t accurate*” - because sometimes, it might be. It is very very obvious that horse sports have a major image problem and as a community, we need to turn that around.

*Btw I don’t mean you specifically but in general!

 

[eahotson]

You must have missed the many posts previously which called out racing, and I’ve definitely mentioned show jumping on various threads , endurance has had a bashing (quite rightly) on other threads. I don’t think western has had much said about it but saying it’s good because there are no noseband doesn’t mean that they have less pain if yanked because they can open their mouths , the bits are severe which is why you have virtually no contact..

The horse can at least protest.A properly broken western horse starts bitless, then moves on to a snaffle and then gradually up to the big curbs.The big curb is a single bit and really is the equivalent of a double bridle.You ride with a very loose rein and mostly from the seat and the legs.The MOST that you should have to do is just touch the rein.Too much and not only do you get a very severe reaction but the horse can open its mouth as wide as it likes.You are very unlikely to get good marks in a competition for this.Of course you can get poor riding in western and abuse as, sadly in all horse sports but for me at its best it beats modern competition dressage hands down.

 

[I'm Dun]

The horse can at least protest.A properly broken western horse starts bitless, then moves on to a snaffle and then gradually up to the big curbs.The big curb is a single bit and really is the equivalent of a double bridle.You ride with a very loose rein and mostly from the seat and the legs.The MOST that you should have to do is just touch the rein.Too much and not only do you get a very severe reaction but the horse can open its mouth as wide as it likes.You are very unlikely to get good marks in a competition for this.Of course you can get poor riding in western and abuse as, sadly in all horse sports but for me at its best it beats modern competition dressage hands down.

Are you serious?? Western riding is one of the most barbaric forms of riding. From big lick to 2yrs old with heavy riders barrel racing.

At its best is might be fine welfare wise but even then I'm dubious, but at its best dressage is streets ahead welfare wise, so your not doing a fair comparison.

And don't get me started on QH breeding in America, where they happily breed HYPP horses that drop to the floor unable to breathe. I don't want either, but I'd take a hyper mobile warmblood over that

 

[eahotson]

Are you serious?? Western riding is one of the most barbaric forms of riding. From big lick to 2yrs old with heavy riders barrel racing.

At its best is might be fine welfare wise but even then I'm dubious, but at its best dressage is streets ahead welfare wise, so your not doing a fair comparison.

Is that all you know about western?

 

[Cortez]

Are you serious?? Western riding is one of the most barbaric forms of riding. From big lick to 2yrs old with heavy riders barrel racing.

At its best is might be fine welfare wise but even then I'm dubious, but at its best dressage is streets ahead welfare wise, so your not doing a fair comparison.

And don't get me started on QH breeding in America, where they happily breed HYPP horses that drop to the floor unable to breathe. I don't want either, but I'd take a hyper mobile warmblood over that

Oh please, I’m not a huge western riding expert but I’ve lived and worked in the States and this is simply nonsense. There are many very fine western horsemen, and of course some awful ones, just as in any discipline. Tennessee Walking horses are not ridden western, they are part of the Saddle Seat style which is quite separate (and quite awful all in it’s own unique way).

 

[Tiddlypom]

The UK western trainer that I knew (name still appears on current WES list) told me not to try western with my mare as it would ruin her, and that her clients only go into western because they are too useless to do anything else .

 

[Michen]

The UK western trainer that I knew (name still appears on current WES list) told me not to try western with my mare as it would ruin her, and that her clients only go into western because they are too useless to do anything else .

Wow. I have seen far more skilled riders riding western in the USA than I have English in the USA.

A well trained western horse frankly makes a mockery of our English trained horses

 

[planete]

The UK western trainer that I knew (name still appears on current WES list) told me not to try western with my mare as it would ruin her, and that her clients only go into western because they are too useless to do anything else .

Please go and ride a well trained western horse and experience for yourself the lightness and responsiveness to the slightest weight and balance shifts. You will need to have great feel, timing and balance to have a successful ride.

 

[paddy555]

The UK western trainer that I knew (name still appears on current WES list) told me not to try western with my mare as it would ruin her, and that her clients only go into western because they are too useless to do anything else .

I agree "Wow", that is an amazing statement for a UK western trainer to make. It suggests she was so useless she would be unable to train you and the mare properly and kindly. To suggest people only go into western as they are too useless for anything else is beyond belief.


why exactly would it ruin her? Surely what would ruin her would be the way you used the bridle, applied the aids etc. or the way she trained you both and that is the same for everything.

 

[Tiddlypom]

It was referring to senior mare, who has expressive elevated paces. The western trainer advised me that western training would shut her paces down, that she was too good for western.

At the time I was recovering from a serious back injury and had been out of the saddle for three years. Whilst recovering I spectated at a number of western training clinics both with that trainer and others. The ‘useless’ riders were my friends - I was rather gobsmacked at the comment.

ETA I didn’t pass the ‘useless’ comment to my friends, they were completely hooked both on the western training and that particular trainer, I just stepped away.

 

[paddy555]

It was referring to senior mare, who has expressive elevated paces. The western trainer advised me that western training would shut her paces down, that she was too good for western.

At the time I was recovering from a serious back injury and had been out of the saddle for three years. Whilst recovering I spectated at a number of western training clinics both with that trainer and others. The ‘useless’ riders were my friends - I was rather gobsmacked at the comment.

sorry I misunderstood. I didn't realise that the trainer simply meant your specific mare and western wouldn't be good together. I though it was referring to Western in general.

not sure why your friends would pay to go to a clinic where the trainer thought they were too bliddy useless to do anything else.

ETA hopefully she was a good enough trainer to enable them not to be "bliddy useless" at western riding. I expect they made a lot of progress under her guidance.

 

[eahotson]

The UK western trainer that I knew (name still appears on current WES list) told me not to try western with my mare as it would ruin her, and that her clients only go into western because they are too useless to do anything else .

Really?Must have been a really good instructor

 

[criso]

That article really annoyed me. The writer saying that horse sports are dressage, showjumping and cross country because they hadn't done the minimal amount of research to find out the correct names or that the blood that causes elimination doesn't necessarily come from abuse - could be accident, fly bite etc. Don't journalists do fact checks any more?

Actually I don't think saying dressage, cross country and show-jumping rather than saying dressage show jumping and eventing which includes dressage show jumping and cross country is the end of the world. If they'd said disciplines rather than sports it would have been better but doesn't change anything.

 

[Caol Ila]

Some of yous beat me to it, but I was just gonna say that big lick training has F-all to do with Western.

I'm Dun's statement is like a Western rider looking at the current excesses of dressage, then saying, "All English riding is terrible!"

 

[eahotson]

It was referring to senior mare, who has expressive elevated paces. The western trainer advised me that western training would shut her paces down, that she was too good for western.

At the time I was recovering from a serious back injury and had been out of the saddle for three years. Whilst recovering I spectated at a number of western training clinics both with that trainer and others. The ‘useless’ riders were my friends - I was rather gobsmacked at the comment.

ETA I didn’t pass the ‘useless’ comment to my friends, they were completely hooked both on the western training and that particular trainer, I just stepped away.

Carl Hester did a demo with David Deptford,a top UK western trainer/competitor.He was impressed with David's riding,said he liked the "lightness" a d thought more people should do some.Perhaps your instructor thought western might spoil the expressiveness of your mares paces for dressage as these are two different disciplines but to suggest that all her pupils were useless does not reflect well on her I think.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I did a western riding for dressage clinic which specifically taught western techniques to improve balance and control though the seat. By the time we finished, my horse was going into rein back from a change weight in my pelvis alone. I thought it was really useful and incredibly light riding. I appreciate that this was a particularly brilliant coach, and many western riders, like many English riders, are pretty shocking.

 

[Miss_Millie]

I like that the fundamentals of western riding seem to be more about using your seat and weight*, rather than hanging off of the horse's mouth and having a super short rein, as often seen in English disciplines. *When done well/correctly.

 

[stormox]

You can't jump in Western riding though - totally different seat

 

[sbloom]

The horse can at least protest.A properly broken western horse starts bitless, then moves on to a snaffle and then gradually up to the big curbs.The big curb is a single bit and really is the equivalent of a double bridle.You ride with a very loose rein and mostly from the seat and the legs.The MOST that you should have to do is just touch the rein.Too much and not only do you get a very severe reaction but the horse can open its mouth as wide as it likes.You are very unlikely to get good marks in a competition for this.Of course you can get poor riding in western and abuse as, sadly in all horse sports but for me at its best it beats modern competition dressage hands down.

Unless you're committed to bitless, this is a really fascinating explanation on spade bits from a trainer I rate very highly, and similar would apply to the double, though I think I probably err on the side of no horse deserving that great bulk of metal in their mouths

https://www.facebook.com/consilienthorsemanship/posts/pfbid05FT99N1hk1C98MpqHAqLWCopDLTTb4aKKXwdyaWPpb8tXfh7iAaBHjNa42BFbuj2l

 

[eahotson]

Unless you're committed to bitless, this is a really fascinating explanation on spade bits from a trainer I rate very highly, and similar would apply to the double, though I think I probably err on the side of no horse deserving that great bulk of metal in their mouths

https://www.facebook.com/consilienthorsemanship/posts/pfbid05FT99N1hk1C98MpqHAqLWCopDLTTb4aKKXwdyaWPpb8tXfh7iAaBHjNa42BFbuj2l

Very interesting.

 

[Caol Ila]

Unless you're committed to bitless, this is a really fascinating explanation on spade bits from a trainer I rate very highly, and similar would apply to the double, though I think I probably err on the side of no horse deserving that great bulk of metal in their mouths

https://www.facebook.com/consilienthorsemanship/posts/pfbid05FT99N1hk1C98MpqHAqLWCopDLTTb4aKKXwdyaWPpb8tXfh7iAaBHjNa42BFbuj2l

I follow her on FB. She always has useful things to say, especially about the vaquero/bosal stuff.

 

[eahotson]

I did a western riding for dressage clinic which specifically taught western techniques to improve balance and control though the seat. By the time we finished, my horse was going into rein back from a change weight in my pelvis alone. I thought it was really useful and incredibly light riding. I appreciate that this was a particularly brilliant coach, and many western riders, like many English riders, are pretty shocking.

Fantastic.

 

[Fransurrey]

The UK western trainer that I knew (name still appears on current WES list) told me not to try western with my mare as it would ruin her, and that her clients only go into western because they are too useless to do anything else .

I don't claim to be an expert in any discipline, but if a trainer said that to me about anything I was interested in without qualifying the statement, I'd be avoiding like the plague.

 

[sbloom]

An equestrian organisation has emailed members to ask them to basically not even comment on any of it and only portray horses in the most positive light possible, as if that will save the SLO. And then I see this performative rubbish, dangerous too. But everything's just fine here...!!

 

[HollyWoozle]

I also saw that post and thought "what a load of tosh".

 

[Nocturnal]

An equestrian organisation has emailed members to ask them to basically not even comment on any of it and only portray horses in the most positive light possible, as if that will save the SLO. And then I see this performative rubbish, dangerous too. But everything's just fine here...!!

Hammock in the stable? That will end up as one of two things... Hay bar or poo spot. Possibly both.