Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Fully agree. It’ll help to deflate the arsey “I’ve checked it myself, it’s fine. You (the steward) are checking it wrong, I know much more than a pleb like you” type of competitor.
CDJ withdrawn from paris
- Thread starter Zoeypxo
- Start date
Reacher
Well-Known Member
Aaaand the winner of “I have no media training and couldn’t sound more defensive and awkward if I tried” goes to….
Isabel Werth.
Good grief has she no idea how she comes across?!
WrongLeg
Well-Known Member
you are supposed to be able to perform dressage movements with a sword in one hand.
…just as…
if you move cattle with the reins in one hand
& or you need both hands to go through a gate
you learn pretty quickly to do a rein back/ leg yield/ turn on the forehand with your seat & legs
…necessity being the mother of all invention.
SaddlePsych'D
Well-Known Member
Well... 'The Queen of Dressage' everyone. As we have so often been reminded this week.
Orangehorse
Well-Known Member
What's grim? Explain yourself.Re saddle seat. ‘Upheaded’ horse
For humans to show off on. Grim.
Orangehorse
Well-Known Member
Spanish horses were traditionally started bitless and did not have a bit in their mouth until their adult teeth were through.
Orangehorse
Well-Known Member
Why do you think it is awful? I have ridden Saddle Seat and didn't find anything awful about it. I didn't hang on to my horse's mouth, I didn't sit on his loins, I had to concentrate hard to give a canter aid with the outside leg while keeping the inside leg still. It is a very niche thing to do, as it doesn't transfer to a working horse or a sports horse. The Tennesse Walkers were bred via the European breeds to cover a lot of ground at speed while being comfortable for the rider.
The Ambler breeds didn't survive in Europe but continued to be bred in America.
blitznbobs
Well-Known Member
And it would be good if too tight at the check it was automatic elimination … that would loosen them another notch
Cortez
Tough but Fair
I have trained out of a TWH barn in Tennessee, the things I saw there, and also in Kentucky when I worked there surrounded by Saddlebred and Morgan trainers, will stay with me for the rest of my life. "Park" riding, AKA saddleseat, is some sort of travesty of Victorian era Rotten Row display riding, which is in itself a sort of parody of high school showing off, but without even the basics of gymnasticising the horse to enable it to perform the sort of showy movements desired. So instead of elevation, engagement and power, you get "high headedness" achieved by forcing the head up, and the corresponding hollow back. Instead of uphill paces you get rattles (solid wooden balls put around the shins), soring, chains, rubber straps, weighted shoes, etc., etc. to make them pick the legs up. To get the desired high tail carriage that goes with the head carriage you get muscles cut and tail "sets" worn 24 hours a day, ginger shoved up the anus. The poor Tennessee Walkers get even worse stuff done to them, and thus the nicest, most amenable horse breeds (along with Morgans and Arabians) are subjected to the most awful treatment.
I used to rehab 2 year olds (yes TWO YEAR OLDS) that had been discarded from Big Lick and Saddle Seat training, so I've ridden a few(dozens)....and my experience is why I know it is an awful way to train horses.
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shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
Traditionally started with a serrata though, so not exactly friendly. Why quite often they have scars all over their nose.
FieldOrnaments
Well-Known Member
There is abuse in every discipline but that does not mean, necessarily, that the whole discipline HAS to be done in a way which is abusive. The only common denominator across disciplines where abuse is present (and I'll reiterate that that is all of them) are human beings.
The issue with 'modern' dressage is that the abusive training, the grossly biomechanically incorrect ways of going, the marshmallow fluff nonsense, Etc has gone even beyond being normalised and is actively rewarded, and has been for ages (when i think 'front leg mover' i think Totilas, but realistically it's been going on since probably before i was born, which is really sad).
Just as western pleasure rewards the four beat lope, the hobbling shuffle-jog, and the weighed bits and gimmicks that are used to achieve those.
I actually think ASBs are beautiful au naturel but sad and freakish when made up for 'their' discipline.
The issue with 'modern' dressage is that the abusive training, the grossly biomechanically incorrect ways of going, the marshmallow fluff nonsense, Etc has gone even beyond being normalised and is actively rewarded, and has been for ages (when i think 'front leg mover' i think Totilas, but realistically it's been going on since probably before i was born, which is really sad).
Just as western pleasure rewards the four beat lope, the hobbling shuffle-jog, and the weighed bits and gimmicks that are used to achieve those.
not to mention it has its origins in plantation owners wanting to look fancy but be comfortable as they toured the plantations. That something which is hideously cruel to animals only exists because of hideous cruelty to humans is dreadful.
I actually think ASBs are beautiful au naturel but sad and freakish when made up for 'their' discipline.
FieldOrnaments
Well-Known Member
tl;dr humans are awful =)
maya2008
Well-Known Member
Changing the scoring criteria absolutely works to change a sport.
I was watching gymnastics today (on iPlayer because we missed it on the day!) with my family and thinking how much stronger, more muscled and healthier the women gymnasts are now. They changed the scoring criteria and in doing so changed the whole way the athletes were trained and developed. Difficulty is now prioritised over artistry, strength and power are winning qualities. There were many many tales over the decades of how girls in international competitions from x or y country were kept artificially small and light to win - nothing changed until the scoring system did. Then boom!
I was watching gymnastics today (on iPlayer because we missed it on the day!) with my family and thinking how much stronger, more muscled and healthier the women gymnasts are now. They changed the scoring criteria and in doing so changed the whole way the athletes were trained and developed. Difficulty is now prioritised over artistry, strength and power are winning qualities. There were many many tales over the decades of how girls in international competitions from x or y country were kept artificially small and light to win - nothing changed until the scoring system did. Then boom!
pistolpete
Well-Known Member
This may sound mean but I’m really rooting for the GB dressage squad to prove we don’t need the ‘golden girl’ who fell on her sword! No one is indispensable.
Barton Bounty
Just simply loving life with Orbi 🥰
I am too, i was horrified by the video and really hoped it wasnt a learned behaviour or a regular thing.
Our team are doing amazing so far!
pistolpete
Well-Known Member
Hope anyone else sitting on dodgy evidence of abuse is brave enough to share now.I am too, i was horrified by the video and really hoped it wasnt a learned behaviour or a regular thing.
Our team are doing amazing so far!
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Thanks, Cortez, for your insider view of saddle seat. How anyone can defend this travesty is beyond me.
Barton Bounty
Just simply loving life with Orbi 🥰
Exactly! But in all honesty, if i was that wee girl riding… cdj would have been knee capped
I couldnt have sat there and for the other person to be laughing. They are all guilty in that situationJenJ
Well-Known Member
That doesn't sound mean to me at all! And I think it would be the best way to show that there is more to the GB Dressage team than one 'name'.
LadyGascoyne
Well-Known Member
Becky made us so proud. It was a lovely lovely test.
WrongLeg
Well-Known Member
I suspect that CDJ learned abusive treatment of horses in the showing world.
I found this thread online written by someone who worked in a yard of a H&H columnist…
…”I too have worked on showing yards, no, its not about the ponies, in many cases, not all, how is it about a pony, when they as a 4 year old novice have travelled miles to a show, to not go well, come home, get battered with a shovel in a small tack room infront of livery clients? Its a sick, sick world the world of showing and whether it is bent or not, is, or should be the least of peoples worries, the abuse is the worst thing! ACP'd up to be schooled, beaten, ponies scared stiff of their evil b*tch owner, the list goes on!“
I remember the H&H columnist in question using a schooling whip to force a 12hh show pony to walk forward into the bit with the reins held tight. There were whip marks left on the pony’s hind 1/4s.
I remember, as a 9 yo, sitting in the corner of the pony’s stable crying afterwards.
The columnist was v.careful to make sure nobody else was in the School before the ponies were whipped like this.
One part or me thinks that the timing of the CDJ complaint was sabotage.
Another part of me, can empathise with the rider being told this was ‘normal’, their feelings were not valid, and not being able to bear CDJ’s media coverage at the Olympics after the way she treated her horse.
I feel slightly sick every time I see this H&H columnists articles. However many years ago you witnessed something abusive, 4 years ago or 30, it can feel like yesterday.
From people’s reaction to this video, I now know that the way I feel about this is valid.
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scats
Well-Known Member
Who on earth was this? Disgraceful.
pistolpete
Well-Known Member
So true!Exactly! But in all honesty, if i was that wee girl riding… cdj would have been knee capped
WrongLeg
Well-Known Member
If you Google the quotation…you can see which yard the thread is about.
“ACP'd up to be schooled, beaten, ponies scared stiff of their evil b*tch owner, the list goes on!“
“ACP'd up to be schooled, beaten, ponies scared stiff of their evil b*tch owner, the list goes on!“
WrongLeg
Well-Known Member
Having been in a situation like this as a 9/10yo not a 15yo
….I think this is a bit like a man trying to force himself on you. You are so scared, you just freeze and it’s like your trying to scream but no sound comes out.
Barton Bounty
Just simply loving life with Orbi 🥰
I was too, I started helping at the stables and was dumbfounded by the treatment of some of the ponies by certain people. Once I got my own I didnt see those people as much and many of them didnt last long anyway.
Vowed never ever to be like that!
humblepie
Well-Known Member
The professional showing yard I had a horse with had high standards, no short cuts, no side reins, lots of turn out, lots of hacking, huge attention to detail. The Olympic rider’s event yard I worked in totally relaxed no gadgets proper riding amazing hacking and turn out. Lots of laughs and a fab time. The crossest bit of riding I saw was at a dressage yard which has connections to a current Olympic horse and rider. That may have been a moment in time. It may be how that person rides. Was only there for a lesson not with that person so I can’t say. We mustn’t taint everyone or every individual because of how one person behaves. That individual behaviour should be addressed.
WrongLeg
Well-Known Member
I agree about tainting with the same brush. I also know kind and brilliant riders from the showing world.
I suspect that the yard CDJ rode at as a child was not particularly kind to ponies simply because of the way those ponies reacted to the whip/ hand.
…I have no evidence but horses tell you their own story about how they have been treated. Horses and Ponies are the most reliable witnesses.
I suspect that the yard CDJ rode at as a child was not particularly kind to ponies simply because of the way those ponies reacted to the whip/ hand.
…I have no evidence but horses tell you their own story about how they have been treated. Horses and Ponies are the most reliable witnesses.
equinerebel
Well-Known Member
I once knew of someone (briefly liveried on the same yard) who’s idea of getting their horse onto the bit was to ride them in ever increasingly tight circles and smacking them with a schooling whip. Any time the horse resisted, they shouted that the horse was “testing” the rider and needed to be ridden harder.
Eventually, the horse was pts for behavioural reasons.
The sad part is that wasn’t a particularly unusual experience growing up in the horse world for me.
Eventually, the horse was pts for behavioural reasons.
The sad part is that wasn’t a particularly unusual experience growing up in the horse world for me.
PoppyAnderson
Well-Known Member
Who are the good ones you're referring to? I think the good eggs in the equestrian world should be named! (If anyone wants a recommendation for someone in Cheshire to back or produce, I know someone who is fabulous and never, ever hits, never uses gadgets or short cuts and is always kind to the horse.)