CDJ withdrawn from paris

[Zoeypxo]

Slightly off the current topic, but I was on Carl Hester's Web page earlier. It has clearly been updated recently as the Paris team bronze medal is listed on the results page. But i was interested to see that all reference to CDJ has been removed from the page, she doesn't appear in the photos of the team either.

She definitely used to be there as there was a whole section about Valegro.

Hmm

I noticed this , on the horses page it only has now a handful of carls horses, there used to be alot of charlottes horses featured too

 

[ponyparty]

I saw an article today about how Team GB had overcome the Charlotte Du Jardin Whipping Controversy. It basically said things were good now and the team had done so well to overcome the negativity of the scandal.... I do feel she is being scapegoated. She is by far not the worst. That does NOT mean I feel she should be able to continue as before or that what she did was in any way acceptable. I hope she is never allowed to compete again. But I also would like IW and Patrick Kittel and the endless list of people who ride horses in hyperflexion, blue tongued, train them horribly etc to be banned as well. Unfortunately the spin seems to be it's all ok now that terrible Charlotte is no longer in the frame :-(

Agree - and I KNEW this would happen, I kept saying it to my poor non-horsey family, who had the misfortune of being on holiday with me when the news about CDJ broke (so obvs I talked about nothing else!). They got a very thorough education - probably a little more than they really wanted!

 

[I'm Dun]

I think I've said this above but the only people with video evidence will be insiders and unless they are planning on giving up that status they are going to sit on it. This is why this kind of thing is so rare.

she also doesn't allow lessons to be filmed, or hasn't with the people I know who have trained with her. So its likely she has that approach with a lot of people and therefore there is no video evidence to show.

 

[I'm Dun]

I've been thinking of setting up a Facebook group after my disappoinment with the 'It's time to act group'. Basically a group where anyone can air their concerns. Any personal attacks, threats of violence etc would be removed and i'd ideally like people to discuss the behaviour/action and not the person/rider. I wouldn't allow any 'time to move on' comments and would say anyone's concerns are valid but I imagine in reality it would be near on impossible to manage!

do it, I'll help you run it, as a lazy layabout mature, ahem! student, I have tons of time on my hands

 

[reynold]

Daily Mail are papping her today - headline to article is that CDJ is 'seen smiling in first appearance since the video came out'.
Taken with her partner (and child) in a visit to Gloucester airport.

Tone is hinting along the lines of 'she hit a horse so she shouldn't be smiling' and repeating all the stuff printed previously.

The public comments are mainly ones saying she was stitched up by rival countries - so yet again more supportive than critical of her actions...

Personally I don't see her coming back from this as it has similarities to the furore around Mark Todd and the tree branch incident. That did destroy his career although he still is a racehorse trainer in a small way.

 

[PurpleSpots]

Daily Mail are papping her today - headline to article is that CDJ is 'seen smiling in first appearance since the video came out'.
Taken with her partner (and child) in a visit to Gloucester airport.

Tone is hinting along the lines of 'she hit a horse so she shouldn't be smiling' and repeating all the stuff printed previously.

The public comments are mainly ones saying she was stitched up by rival countries - so yet again more supportive than critical of her actions...

Personally I don't see her coming back from this as it has similarities to the furore around Mark Todd and the tree branch incident. That did destroy his career although he still is a racehorse trainer in a small way.

I gess it's a slow news day and they need to create stories.

The media often governs alot of public opinion - how things progress could relate to the media's future input I suspect.

 

[suestowford]

Yesterday I saw a picture of IW's horse, during her test at these current Olympics. The horse's tongue was blue.
IW signed the letter of condemnation of CDJ's behaviour, just a few days before this.
Pots & kettles come to mind...

 

[paddy555]

I used to think that the Equestrians It's Time to Act group was a small beacon of hope for top end competition, but it's gone to the dogs. Since the CDJ video was leaked, the cognitive dissonance and toxic positivity has disproportionately overridden what should be objective criticism. It's my impression that most people on that group care more about the sport than the horse, and the small number of people continuing to (rightly) criticise on posts are being name called.

Maybe that group isn't an accurate representation of the general horse-owning/riding demographic, but I have lost hope that change will come from within the industry, and will be relying on public opinion being the catalyst for change in the long run. In the meantime horses will continue to suffer for ego and medals.

For the first time I feel sorry for Charlotte Dujardian - she has been made the scapegoat and it's business as usual. Nothing has changed.

haven't read this thread for a few days and just came on to write exactly what you have.

I too was hopeful for that group but now I just see them for what they are, totally up their own backsides as they are the professionals. They can't see because they don't want to see. "we in our profession" etc. and don't dare criticise us you plebs who have no idea.
You are right, business as usual just a bit more patting the horse as we really do care about them. (or at least we do as long as they win)


I was searching for something else and this came up by mistake. Post number 2 says it all for me.

Anyone read 'Reflections on Equestrian Art' Nuno Oliveira

Just received this book today and after the first few pages I know that as soon as I've finished I will be reading it all over again. As I embark on a journey into the unknown for me 'Dressage' or in particular Classical Dressage as soon as I started reading this book I am filled with...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

 

[paddy555]

if anyone wants a laugh (not that any of this is remotely funny from the horse's POV) have a look at equestrians it's time to act where someone has posted a petition to allow bitless to be used.
The comments are exactly what one would expect. I get the impression from those that these bits/nosebands etc are required to control the horse. I thought it was all about training not forceful control but perhaps not.
Someone suggested a neck ring. Not a good suggestion.

Business as usual folks.

 

[sbloom]

if anyone wants a laugh (not that any of this is remotely funny from the horse's POV) have a look at equestrians it's time to act where someone has posted a petition to allow bitless to be used.
The comments are exactly what one would expect. I get the impression from those that these bits/nosebands etc are required to control the horse. I thought it was all about training not forceful control but perhaps not.
Someone suggested a neck ring. Not a good suggestion.

Business as usual folks.

The group has been thoroughly depressing for some time. So much welfare-washing/denial out there.

 

[paddy555]

The group has been thoroughly depressing for some time. So much welfare-washing/denial out there.

hadn't seen that wording ie w-washing before but it is a really good description.

 

[Miss_Millie]

haven't read this thread for a few days and just came on to write exactly what you have.

I too was hopeful for that group but now I just see them for what they are, totally up their own backsides as they are the professionals. They can't see because they don't want to see. "we in our profession" etc. and don't dare criticise us you plebs who have no idea.
You are right, business as usual just a bit more patting the horse as we really do care about them. (or at least we do as long as they win)


I was searching for something else and this came up by mistake. Post number 2 says it all for me.

Anyone read 'Reflections on Equestrian Art' Nuno Oliveira

Just received this book today and after the first few pages I know that as soon as I've finished I will be reading it all over again. As I embark on a journey into the unknown for me 'Dressage' or in particular Classical Dressage as soon as I started reading this book I am filled with...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

The irony that they're fawning over Snoop Dog, who has no knowledge of horses whatsoever, whilst name-calling empathetic, informed and experienced horse people 'pony patters' and 'the behaviour brigade'

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

she also doesn't allow lessons to be filmed, or hasn't with the people I know who have trained with her. So its likely she has that approach with a lot of people and therefore there is no video evidence to show.

That's absolutely not true.
I've been along and filmed training a few times over the years - last as recently as Easter last year. Obviously it wasn't shared on public media by me but given to rider to do with what they wished.
I know of others who had training and there were no restrictions either.

 

[Bobthecob15]

That's absolutely not true.
I've been along and filmed training a few times over the years - last as recently as Easter last year. Obviously it wasn't shared on public media by me but given to rider to do with what they wished.
I know of others who had training and there were no restrictions either.

That’s positive, it would be weird if she didn’t allow filming prior to this incident

 

[I'm Dun]

It absolutely is true for the 3 people I know who trained with her, maybe it is location or person-specific. None of them had a bad experience with her, but stopped for various niggly reasons and I cant imagine all 3 made up the same lie, as 2 of them told me long before this surfaced.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

It absolutely is true for the 3 people I know who trained with her, maybe it is location or person-specific. None of them had a bad experience with her, but stopped for various niggly reasons and I cant imagine all 3 made up the same lie, as 2 of them told me long before this surfaced.

Well, all I can say is that actually having been present at a good number of training sessions over a 9 year period till Easter 23, it wasnt the case when I happened to be there. No hearsay, I was present.


I still abhor what I saw in 'that' video though.

 

[Pinkvboots]

My instructor had lessons with her and he has shown me videos of the lessons.

 

[eahotson]

Dressage insiders generally. Owners, anyone allowed to get out a phone. Anyone who wants to be invited back! We all know there are lots of people who think this stuff is a normal part of training. They're all out there online saying 'I've seen worse'. They have nothing to gain by exposing stuff like this. Clearly some people even find it funny, not disturbing. There's a reason grooms in a lot of places have to sign NDAs and Helgstrand was exposed only as a result of covert filming. No one in the industry exposed him and the industry's done pretty much zero to stop him.

Can I say again,saying I have seen worse does not mean you approve.It is just a sad but factual statement.

 

[Burnttoast]

Can I say again,saying I have seen worse does not mean you approve.It is just a sad but factual statement.

Of course, except for the tone of acceptance in many of the posts/comments that say this.

 

[ester]

So the danish (Carina Cassoe Kruth) video has reached the interweb. Atm I’ve only seen it on dressagehub who I’m loathed to link to…

 

[Dave's Mam]

So the danish (Carina Cassoe Kruth) video has reached the interweb. Atm I’ve only seen it on dressagehub who I’m loathed to link to…

Apart from the very acidic "ARGH" on the videos, her floating head makes me ill. I can't actually watch, they make me sea sick.

 

[shortstuff99]

I think it is as bad if not worse than the CDJ video and all she got was a slapped wrist and no fei involvement.

 

[scats]

I think it is as bad if not worse than the CDJ video and all she got was a slapped wrist and no fei involvement.

It’s an appalling video and I really struggled to watch it, more so than CDJs.
It doesn’t make you very hopeful that any action will be taken over CDJ, does it?

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

It’s an appalling video and I really struggled to watch it, more so than CDJs.
It doesn’t make you very hopeful that any action will be taken over CDJ, does it?

Or that some kind of action will be taken over CDJ, while others get off with a piddly fine or "being spoken to" and get to point the finger at her to make themselves look better.

To be clear I do think CDJ should face BD and FEI consequences, I just think it stinks that I'm getting loads of FEI content fawning over IW in my FB feed (I don't follow their page) and being told that presenting your horse with incredible tension, stress and a blue tongue (not photoshopped ) is in fact the best the world has to offer in dressage. Nah. Just... nah.

 

[sbloom]

Or that some kind of action will be taken over CDJ, while others get off with a piddly fine or "being spoken to" and get to point the finger at her to make themselves look better.

To be clear I do think CDJ should face BD and FEI consequences, I just think it stinks that I'm getting loads of FEI content fawning over IW in my FB feed (I don't follow their page) and being told that presenting your horse with incredible tension, stress and a blue tongue (not photoshopped ) is in fact the best the world has to offer in dressage. Nah. Just... nah.

Snap, for all of it.

 

[stormox]

How can someone be fined for "alleged" abuse? It's either abuse or isn't!!

 

[Burnttoast]

It explains how horses will still go forward into an iron-hard contact, which has always mystified me slightly (well not really, I'm not that innocent, but one hopes...). But according to some people you can't force a horse to do something it doesn't want to do

 

[ester]

Hadn’t realised it was helgstrand teaching /at his place.

 

[sbloom]

It explains how horses will still go forward into an iron-hard contact, which has always mystified me slightly (well not really, I'm not that innocent, but one hopes...). But according to some people you can't force a horse to do something it doesn't want to do

Bigger bit <=> bigger spurs and if that doesn't work, hit it! Don't forget leaning back and driving hard with the seatbones.

 

[Burnttoast]

Bigger bit <=> bigger spurs and if that doesn't work, hit it! Don't forget leaning back and driving hard with the seatbones.

21st-century refined aids.....