CDJ withdrawn from paris

[Orangehorse]

They have opinions, which won’t necessarily chime with yours, and have to be considered and discussed if you wish to get anything done. They are deep thinkers, and strong believers in cost-benefit analyses. What works with a horse won’t necessarily work with a mule, so you have to have an array of methods to offer. But once they’ve “got” something, they’ll do it forever and with great dedication (this includes opening the kitchen window and asking for carrots). It takes longer to train a mule, but you won’t need to go back and do it again. If they don’t like someone nothing will change their mind. I was very fond of our mules, but then I do have a sense of humour. They can sense indecision a mile off, likewise fear.

I don't know if you ever came across a memoir which was written by a wartime commander in charge of (horse) transport. In India the horses, donkeys and mules were moved by train and one day there was an accident, a derailment. He said that the donkeys died of fright, the horses panicked and injured themselves in trying to escape and the mules just waited patiently to be rescued.

 

[KEK]

Whereas when I put mine out to block a dog mine ran backwards. Maybe I should counter condition it. He is very food motivated.
Just musing what I could do better.. not saying whip use is wrong.

 

[blitznbobs]

Whereas when I put mine out to block a dog mine ran backwards. Maybe I should counter condition it. He is very food motivated.
Just musing what I could do better.. not saying whip use is wrong.

It is a lesson that needs to be taught early. My first lesson with all my youngsters is whip is something that is harmless and you can be touched anywhere with it together with commands for forwards and backwards. I don’t teach anything else til they have all these concepts ingrained

 

[paddy555]

Unsure of what you can't comprehend. I clearly wrote that BN has been posted about before "predominantly on the thread about the other whackadoodle The Travelling Horse Witch ". Not sure how to simplify that BN is discussed on the Travelling Horse witch. Both unqualified. TTHW is a whackadoodle who has lied about her qualifications amongst other things.

That's good, I'm glad you have so much trust in untrained and unqualified people who curate their own social media and delete any questions that don't fit their narrative. Never mind very questionable treatment of horses, their own and others. As long as other people like them they must be great and absolutely what they claim to be Nutjob more than covered the obvious.

I didn't make any comment on the video so you're barking up the wrong tree again.

pull apart someone's work by all means if it is technically wrong. Pulling apart their work because of their character is pointless. Taking into account the qualifications of someone else ie the TTHW (and I have no idea who she is) when doing so just defeats me.

 

[rabatsa]

I don't know if you ever came across a memoir which was written by a wartime commander in charge of (horse) transport. In India the horses, donkeys and mules were moved by train and one day there was an accident, a derailment. He said that the donkeys died of fright, the horses panicked and injured themselves in trying to escape and the mules just waited patiently to be rescued.

I read that but the donkeys were uninjured but shot because they froze and refused to move after the crash, the horses were shot due to injury from panic but once the train stopped the mules who were uninjured like the donkeys, were happy to move when asked.

Mules always weigh up the pros and cons of doing something, then do what is safe for the mule. One reason they are used for tourists in the Grand Canyon. A horse can be made to step off a cliff, not so a mule as they trust their judgement over the riders.

 

[TPO]

pull apart someone's work by all means if it is technically wrong. Pulling apart their work because of their character is pointless. Taking into account the qualifications of someone else ie the TTHW (and I have no idea who she is) when doing so just defeats me.

I at no point said that TTHW lack of qualifications had anything to do with BN. Merely that they are both unqualified.

I often wonder how charlatans get away with their scams but you're answering it.

You are thr one desperate to know more about BN and apparently unable to do any research for yourself. I pointed out that BN had already been discussed in detail on the long TTHW thread. To help give you a starter for 10.

Someone with a character that includes neglecting horses and/or causing them pain should be a factor when deciding what "professional" to pay attention to. But as many followings prove common sense isn't a flower growing in everyone's garden.

I know you're argumentative and go out of your way to be antagonistic but fail to see what you ever hope to achieve.

I wish you well filling your life with something slightly less miserable. UI

 

[paddy555]

These people may not be scientists and may not be able to critically assess whether what she is saying is correct or not. It's up to individuals to believe what they want and to get information from what ever sources they think are reputable. Personally, if I wanted to know about horse anatomy I would be deriving information from someone with a science background and academic qualifications in a relevant subject, ideally with published peer reviewed scientific papers in that subject. Conversely, if I wanted a pet stuffed I would go to a taxidermist.

If I didn't trust the source of the information I wouldn't want to have to keep cross checking against more reputable sources to check which parts were correct or not. I would think anyone with sufficient knowledge to critically appraise this stuff wouldn't bother or would be blocked and deleted as per normal on social media.

In theory I agree that one should use a qualified professional and be able to totally rely on them. However IRL I have unfortunately found this theory falls down badly in some cases over a wide range of qualified professionals so in actual fact you are having to cross check on the professional anyway.

 

[TheMule]

They have opinions, which won’t necessarily chime with yours, and have to be considered and discussed if you wish to get anything done. They are deep thinkers, and strong believers in cost-benefit analyses. What works with a horse won’t necessarily work with a mule, so you have to have an array of methods to offer. But once they’ve “got” something, they’ll do it forever and with great dedication (this includes opening the kitchen window and asking for carrots). It takes longer to train a mule, but you won’t need to go back and do it again. If they don’t like someone nothing will change their mind. I was very fond of our mules, but then I do have a sense of humour. They can sense indecision a mile off, likewise fear.

Excellent post about mules. I'm on my 2nd- he is a big, big character and will take time to train, but it will be worth it

 

[paddy555]

I at no point said that TTHW lack of qualifications had anything to do with BN. Merely that they are both unqualified.

I often wonder how charlatans get away with their scams but you're answering it.

You are thr one desperate to know more about BN and apparently unable to do any research for yourself. I pointed out that BN had already been discussed in detail on the long TTHW thread. To help give you a starter for 10.

Someone with a character that includes neglecting horses and/or causing them pain should be a factor when deciding what "professional" to pay attention to. But as many followings prove common sense isn't a flower growing in everyone's garden.

I know you're argumentative and go out of your way to be antagonistic but fail to see what you ever hope to achieve.

I wish you well filling your life with something slightly less miserable. UI

I appreciate I am on UI but I'm pretty sure you will be back to see my response. Too hard to resist I suspect. I did enjoy your reply above. Made me smile so thank you.

what does concern me about your postings is that you are criticising people against a background of little knowledge and hearsay.

I will give you a couple of examples.

On the whackadoodle thread you referred me to you wrote

I know Yasmin is in the Travelling Horse Witch cult. Plenty of info online exposing what a lying, harm causing whackadoodle she (Celeste) is.

Luckily a couple of people who did have knowledge and information rather than your guesswork did come forward and advise Yasmin was in fact a good physio. Your posting which simply appeared to be based on your own prejudiced opinion could have damaged her reputation. Again why she is linked to Celeste who knows.

As far as BN goes you are stating as fact that she neglects horses and causes them pain. That is a pretty serious allegation to make about anyone especially when you appear to have absolutely no evidence other than the word of someone who appeared on the Helsgrad thread, posted 15 posts bad mouthing her again with no links to actual evidence and then disappeared. That is not evidence simply someone's opinion. If you can provide some evidence showing B has been convicted of cruelty and neglect then of course my view will be different.

 

[nutjob]

Again why she is linked to Celeste who knows.

I would think she (Yasmin Stuart) is linked to Celeste because she claims that she is on her own website

 

[paddy555]

I would think she (Yasmin Stuart) is linked to Celeste because she claims that she is on her own website

View attachment 144953

thank you. I had not heard of Celeste.

 

[PurpleSpots]

It's so difficult, because mainstream 'knowledge' isn't always right, and equally it's evolving all the time. It's why vets, for example, have to undertake CPD.

If you judge people who see things differently/have different skills against mainstream knowledge/qualifications/practitioners, they're always going to be different, and won't always/often/ever fit into the mainstream boxes. So automatically they will seem different - because they are. Sometimes people are just plain wrong, sometimes they're ahead of their time with significant ideas and knowledge to share.

And then there are qualified people who use their qualifications as a way to use their own opinions as 'fact' when they often aren't, and who seem to hold progress back.

At the end of the day, it is always most important how the horse feels, and what someone's intention is. Rather than dismissing anyone different, shouldn't we look to accept all the good bits the world around us has to offer, in whatever form it's made available to us?

Equally, we have all of us got things wrong at some point, or been in a position where in hindsight we acknowledge we could have done better, or perhaps just taken too much on and not been able to keep up with ideals. It doesn't mean the rest of that person's life and all of their knowledge and ideas should be, to use a buzz term, 'cancelled'.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I appreciate I am on UI but I'm pretty sure you will be back to see my response. Too hard to resist I suspect. I did enjoy your reply above. Made me smile so thank you.

what does concern me about your postings is that you are criticising people against a background of little knowledge and hearsay.

I will give you a couple of examples.

On the whackadoodle thread you referred me to you wrote

I know Yasmin is in the Travelling Horse Witch cult. Plenty of info online exposing what a lying, harm causing whackadoodle she (Celeste) is.

Luckily a couple of people who did have knowledge and information rather than your guesswork did come forward and advise Yasmin was in fact a good physio. Your posting which simply appeared to be based on your own prejudiced opinion could have damaged her reputation. Again why she is linked to Celeste who knows.

As far as BN goes you are stating as fact that she neglects horses and causes them pain. That is a pretty serious allegation to make about anyone especially when you appear to have absolutely no evidence other than the word of someone who appeared on the Helsgrad thread, posted 15 posts bad mouthing her again with no links to actual evidence and then disappeared. That is not evidence simply someone's opinion. If you can provide some evidence showing B has been convicted of cruelty and neglect then of course my view will be different.

I know Yasmin and have used her as a physio for both of my horses and honestly she was the best I have seen for a long time.

I didn't know she did the nerve release training with celeste but was interested because I have a horse that is a mild head shaker.

I got her to do the treatment I watched the whole treatment it wasn't anything I was worried about.

Did it work? I don't know but he is definitely better but it wasn't instant but I have added oily herbs and other things to his diet so who knows it may be a combination of things.

 

[I'm Dun]

I bet the PMs were flying back and forward last night. Your ears must have been burning Paddy!

 

[suestowford]

I heard a good mule story once from our farrier.
It was wartime, and a party of mules were travelling through steep terrain, carrying heavy loads of ordinance. One of the mules fell down a ravine with a gun barrel strapped to its back. The army farrier was sent down the ravine with a sharp knife as no-one could imagine the mule would be in a fit state to climb back up. The mule stayed put, but when it spotted the man and his knife, it somehow managed to get to its feet, and climb back up the side of the ravine, still with the gun barrel attached. The army farrier had to make his own way up as the mule did not wait for him!

 

[Observer]

this video is on several sites showing the effect of over bending (rollkur) on the skeleton. It is the first post on this FB page and is a video of about 6 mins.

Becks Nairn

‏‎Becks Nairn‎‏. ‏‏٢٤٬٣٠٤‏ تسجيلات إعجاب · يتحدث ‏٨٬٢٢٦‏ عن هذا‏. ‏اهتمامات‏

www.facebook.com

Beck Nairn, who now labels herself an equine dissectionist, lacks formal qualifications but possesses a talent for persuasive speech. Until she completes a thesis and her findings are validated by qualified professionals, discerning individuals may view her as merely ranting. She charges substantial fees for people to watch her dissect horses, likely advising owners to euthanize their animals without veterinary approval. Despite claiming to ride classical dressage, she has never won a major competition, except for an elementary test on an old stallion she has taught a few tricks, misleadingly presenting him as trained at Grand Prix level.

Nairn has a history of animal neglect in New Zealand and opportunistically adapts to suit her financial interests. Now, she portrays herself as an academic, referring to her followers as “lay people.” Her attention in Ireland and Scotland is primarily due to the rarity of horse dissections. It is highly doubtful that her dissections are accurate or that she adheres to veterinary reports, instead claiming diagnoses as her own. It is perplexing how people can be deceived by internet gurus who repurpose online information and textbooks, presenting it as their original work.

 

[JenJ]

Beck Nairn, who now labels herself an equine dissectionist, lacks formal qualifications but possesses a talent for persuasive speech. Until she completes a thesis and her findings are validated by qualified professionals, discerning individuals may view her as merely ranting. She charges substantial fees for people to watch her dissect horses, likely advising owners to euthanize their animals without veterinary approval. Despite claiming to ride classical dressage, she has never won a major competition, except for an elementary test on an old stallion she has taught a few tricks, misleadingly presenting him as trained at Grand Prix level.

Nairn has a history of animal neglect in New Zealand and opportunistically adapts to suit her financial interests. Now, she portrays herself as an academic, referring to her followers as “lay people.” Her attention in Ireland and Scotland is primarily due to the rarity of horse dissections. It is highly doubtful that her dissections are accurate or that she adheres to veterinary reports, instead claiming diagnoses as her own. It is perplexing how people can be deceived by internet gurus who repurpose online information and textbooks, presenting it as their original work.

You had me at 'dissectionist'...

 

[PurpleSpots]

Is there an abundance of what Becks Nairn offers available openly elsewhere by anyone felt to be acceptable by those who disregard her on the basis of qualifications and the past?

I don't know her, and am discerning about all I see on the internet, but equally try to keep an open mind and am definitely open to learning all I can.

To offer another example, The Study of the Equine Hoof openly says she is learning as she goes and is on a journey (as we all are), but in my opinion has done a huge amount of good for the horses in our lives with the images and videos she has shared over the last few years. Given that she is not a vet or a farrier, should she not have shared what she has? Or is it the way in which she shares it and approaches questions which is the difference?

 

[JenJ]

Is there an abundance of what Becks Nairn offers available openly elsewhere by anyone felt to be acceptable by those who disregard her on the basis of qualifications and the past?

I don't know her, and am discerning about all I see on the internet, but equally try to keep an open mind and am definitely open to learning all I can.

To offer another example, The Study of the Equine Hoof openly says she is learning as she goes and is on a journey (as we all are), but in my opinion has done a huge amount of good for the horses in our lives with the images and videos she has shared over the last few years. Given that she is not a vet or a farrier, should she not have shared what she has? Or is it the way in which she shares it and approaches questions which is the difference?

I think it's all about this.

 

[nutjob]

Or is it the way in which she shares it and approaches questions which is the difference?

The problem with information which is shared on social media is that often there is only one point of view presented. Anyone who asks pertinent questions or especially if they are an expert in the field and dare to point out errors will have their comments removed and they will be blocked so it looks like there are a large number of people who agree and nobody who disagrees.

For example there was a fb page set up extolling the virtues of turmeric. Every single person on the page had success treating a whole variety of conditions that their horse was suffering from, so it looks like a miracle cure for almost everything. It may or may not have some benefits, but if you exclude everyone who has tried it and it has failed then the data is useless. Also, if you pick and choose what information to consider you actually lose any valuable information about what it may or may not do. If you allow an open discussion then you can test out these theories, offer alternative interpretations and generally increase knowledge.

If you want another example, try PSSM. There is a group which extols the virtues of genetic testing and self styled experts offer advise based on the outcome of these tests. Nobody is allowed to mention other scientific research which has disproven this whole theory. If it was an open forum where all available data was able to be shared and discussed then I think this is a better way forward.

Lay people may have very good valid ideas but it's important to be able to challenge and discuss them which social media often provides exactly the opposite of this.

 

[I'm Dun]

Some of the PSSM groups are run like dictatorships!

 

[Miss_Millie]

Beck Nairn, who now labels herself an equine dissectionist, lacks formal qualifications but possesses a talent for persuasive speech. Until she completes a thesis and her findings are validated by qualified professionals, discerning individuals may view her as merely ranting. She charges substantial fees for people to watch her dissect horses, likely advising owners to euthanize their animals without veterinary approval. Despite claiming to ride classical dressage, she has never won a major competition, except for an elementary test on an old stallion she has taught a few tricks, misleadingly presenting him as trained at Grand Prix level.

Nairn has a history of animal neglect in New Zealand and opportunistically adapts to suit her financial interests. Now, she portrays herself as an academic, referring to her followers as “lay people.” Her attention in Ireland and Scotland is primarily due to the rarity of horse dissections. It is highly doubtful that her dissections are accurate or that she adheres to veterinary reports, instead claiming diagnoses as her own. It is perplexing how people can be deceived by internet gurus who repurpose online information and textbooks, presenting it as their original work.

I have no idea who this person is, but I think it's a good example of why one shouldn't assume that an online persona represents the real person. And hero-worshipping someone you have never actually met IRL is a bad idea (very relevant to this thread tbh)

 

[suestowford]

Some of the PSSM groups are run like dictatorships!

It wasn't a PSSM group, but I had to leave one fb group because it was so immensely frustrating. The list of things we were not allowed to mention was longer than allowed topics.

 

[shortstuff99]

Oh dear...

78K views · 716 reactions | Une vidéo de la "détente" de Edward Gal au CHIO Rotterdam Juin 2024. Il y a des centaines de raisons et séquences dans les 27 minutes de la vidéo... | By Collectif Pour Les Chevaux | Facebook

Une vidéo de la "détente" de Edward Gal au CHIO Rotterdam Juin 2024. Il y a des centaines de raisons et séquences dans les 27 minutes de la vidéo...

www.facebook.com

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

Oh dear...

78K views · 716 reactions | Une vidéo de la "détente" de Edward Gal au CHIO Rotterdam Juin 2024. Il y a des centaines de raisons et séquences dans les 27 minutes de la vidéo... | By Collectif Pour Les Chevaux | Facebook

Une vidéo de la "détente" de Edward Gal au CHIO Rotterdam Juin 2024. Il y a des centaines de raisons et séquences dans les 27 minutes de la vidéo...

www.facebook.com

Aside from the horrid, hard-handed riding there, I dread to think what that horse could have been subjected to in order to produce movement like that

 

[Michen]

Sorry if already posted but I was actually impressed with this article

Why it might be time to stop riding horses

The Charlotte Dujardin scandal was the latest in a long line of equine controversies and, perhaps, we should get out of the saddle for good

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Beausmate]

Oh dear...

78K views · 716 reactions | Une vidéo de la "détente" de Edward Gal au CHIO Rotterdam Juin 2024. Il y a des centaines de raisons et séquences dans les 27 minutes de la vidéo... | By Collectif Pour Les Chevaux | Facebook

Une vidéo de la "détente" de Edward Gal au CHIO Rotterdam Juin 2024. Il y a des centaines de raisons et séquences dans les 27 minutes de la vidéo...

www.facebook.com

Ooof! Nice rib-poke at 1.10 Relaxation for Gal, maybe. Not sure his horse would agree.....

 

[Beausmate]

Sorry if already posted but I was actually impressed with this article

Why it might be time to stop riding horses

The Charlotte Dujardin scandal was the latest in a long line of equine controversies and, perhaps, we should get out of the saddle for good

www.telegraph.co.uk

Paywall, so can't see it unfortunately.

 

[shortstuff99]

Sorry if already posted but I was actually impressed with this article

Why it might be time to stop riding horses

The Charlotte Dujardin scandal was the latest in a long line of equine controversies and, perhaps, we should get out of the saddle for good

www.telegraph.co.uk

I read this and I have to say I thought it was a bit of a rubbish article!

Especially the bit from the anti racing campaigner who said there was no ethical argument for riding horses, and then proceeds to justify why it was okay that he rides his own horses and that was 100% ethical and fine!

 

[Reacher]

Paywall, so can't see it unfortunately.

Following a tip from @PurBee on another thread I downloaded Ghostery browser which lets you read it