CDJ withdrawn from paris

[eahotson]

I'm afraid I will disagree with you there, certainly not all horses love to be ridden, but some absolutely do love it.
I have always thought my GP enjoyed being ridden, he does little whickers under his breath when he sees his tack approaching, and hes always been positive and forward, and just felt happy under saddle. A few years ago he injured his ddft being a buffoon in the field, he had treatment, some box rest etc, and in the end I gave him a year off in the field to see if that would do the job. For this year he was out all day, in at night, which was his routine when in work, so his routine didnt change, he was still treated as king of the yard, still saw the farrier, physio etc as he always has done, the only change was no riding. The horse lost his spark, his personality, which has always been big, shrunk, he interacted with the world less, his coat never looked quite the same, he really was a shadow of himself.

After a year he looked sound, so I started riding him again, the first day he saw me coming to him with tack his head came up, he whickered, and his eyes changed, I tacked up and got straight on, and it was as if I'd ridden him the day before, he was immaculately behaved, we only walked for 15mins but that was enough to bring him back to old self, everything changed in that horse, it was like flicking a switch. He is still sound and back in work and loves every minute of it, he is bred to be a dressage

horse, GP horses all over both sides of his pedigree, and for him, being in work makes him happy.

I know this is not the case for all horses, but some horses absolutely do love being ridden.

I had a Highland like that.Loved the whole thing,being brought in,groomed,tacked up,ridden,everything.

 

[Peglo]

I'm afraid I will disagree with you there, certainly not all horses love to be ridden, but some absolutely do love it.
I have always thought my GP enjoyed being ridden, he does little whickers under his breath when he sees his tack approaching, and hes always been positive and forward, and just felt happy under saddle. A few years ago he injured his ddft being a buffoon in the field, he had treatment, some box rest etc, and in the end I gave him a year off in the field to see if that would do the job. For this year he was out all day, in at night, which was his routine when in work, so his routine didnt change, he was still treated as king of the yard, still saw the farrier, physio etc as he always has done, the only change was no riding. The horse lost his spark, his personality, which has always been big, shrunk, he interacted with the world less, his coat never looked quite the same, he really was a shadow of himself.

After a year he looked sound, so I started riding him again, the first day he saw me coming to him with tack his head came up, he whickered, and his eyes changed, I tacked up and got straight on, and it was as if I'd ridden him the day before, he was immaculately behaved, we only walked for 15mins but that was enough to bring him back to old self, everything changed in that horse, it was like flicking a switch. He is still sound and back in work and loves every minute of it, he is bred to be a dressage horse, GP horses all over both sides of his pedigree, and for him, being in work makes him happy.

I know this is not the case for all horses, but some horses absolutely do love being ridden.

I’m not arguing that horses don’t enjoy being ridden. I believe a lot of horses enjoy being ridden and definitely enjoy being worked with.

My point is that they don’t have the same instinct to be ridden from birth that a collie does to herd.
A horse has no idea about being ridden until the idea is put to them.
A collie will try to herd without any training, just on pure instinct.

Once a horse is trained to be worked or ridden then yeah I think they can enjoy it but it’s not a natural instinct

 

[Scoti1420]

I'm afraid I will disagree with you there, certainly not all horses love to be ridden, but some absolutely do love it.
I have always thought my GP enjoyed being ridden, he does little whickers under his breath when he sees his tack approaching, and hes always been positive and forward, and just felt happy under saddle. A few years ago he injured his ddft being a buffoon in the field, he had treatment, some box rest etc, and in the end I gave him a year off in the field to see if that would do the job. For this year he was out all day, in at night, which was his routine when in work, so his routine didnt change, he was still treated as king of the yard, still saw the farrier, physio etc as he always has done, the only change was no riding. The horse lost his spark, his personality, which has always been big, shrunk, he interacted with the world less, his coat never looked quite the same, he really was a shadow of himself.

After a year he looked sound, so I started riding him again, the first day he saw me coming to him with tack his head came up, he whickered, and his eyes changed, I tacked up and got straight on, and it was as if I'd ridden him the day before, he was immaculately behaved, we only walked for 15mins but that was enough to bring him back to old self, everything changed in that horse, it was like flicking a switch. He is still sound and back in work and loves every minute of it, he is bred to be a dressage horse, GP horses all over both sides of his pedigree, and for him, being in work makes him happy.

I know this is not the case for all horses, but some horses absolutely do love being ridden.

I think Peglo's point wasn't saying horses can't love to be ridden - but the comparison to herding dogs isn't correct - a herding dog will herd whether we teach them to or not - a horse doesn't know what humans riding it is until we have invested time and care into teaching them

 

[TPO]

My point is that they don’t have the same instinct to be ridden from birth that a collie does to herd.
A horse has no idea about being ridden until the idea is put to them.
A collie will try to herd without any training, just on pure instinct.

You've never seen a cutting bred QH loads of footage online of youngstock herding/working cattle before they've been started.

That is bred into them just like collies.

I do agree with the point that you're making though. Collies, cattle horses, jumpers etc do have this bred into them. Does the average "normal" horse have an overriding desire to "perform"?

I also fully agree with your second sentence.

Edited for awful grammar and spelling autocorrects (even worse than the usual)

 

[littleshetland]

I'm afraid I will disagree with you there, certainly not all horses love to be ridden, but some absolutely do love it.
I have always thought my GP enjoyed being ridden, he does little whickers under his breath when he sees his tack approaching, and hes always been positive and forward, and just felt happy under saddle. A few years ago he injured his ddft being a buffoon in the field, he had treatment, some box rest etc, and in the end I gave him a year off in the field to see if that would do the job. For this year he was out all day, in at night, which was his routine when in work, so his routine didnt change, he was still treated as king of the yard, still saw the farrier, physio etc as he always has done, the only change was no riding. The horse lost his spark, his personality, which has always been big, shrunk, he interacted with the world less, his coat never looked quite the same, he really was a shadow of himself.

After a year he looked sound, so I started riding him again, the first day he saw me coming to him with tack his head came up, he whickered, and his eyes changed, I tacked up and got straight on, and it was as if I'd ridden him the day before, he was immaculately behaved, we only walked for 15mins but that was enough to bring him back to old self, everything changed in that horse, it was like flicking a switch. He is still sound and back in work and loves every minute of it, he is bred to be a dressage horse, GP horses all over both sides of his pedigree, and for him, being in work makes him happy.

I know this is not the case for all horses, but some horses absolutely do love being ridden.

I completely agree. My PRE is totally happy when he's being ridden. He see's his tack coming towards him, and you can see him 'smiling'.

 

[ester]

You've never seen a cutting bred QH loads of footage online of youngstock herding/working cattle before they've been started.

That is bred into them just like collies.

I do agree with the point that your making thought. Collies, cattle horses, jumpers etc do have this bred into them. Does the average "normal" horse have an overriding desire to "perform".

I also fully agree with your second sentence.

That’s what I was thinking!

 

[daffy44]

I think Peglo's point wasn't saying horses can't love to be ridden - but the comparison to herding dogs isn't correct - a herding dog will herd whether we teach them to or not - a horse doesn't know what humans riding it is until we have invested time and care into teaching them

I do appreciate that point, but I'm not sure about horses not knowing about riding until we've done it, obviously they dont understand the human concept of "riding", but these horses that are bred to do a specific job will often show that before they've ever seen a saddle. As TPO said, young horses bred to work cattle will do it before they have been backed, young dressage horses will do dressage movements in the field before they are backed, young jumpers, jump etc, and I think they often show a desire for human company which makes working with so easy.

I remember one of mine was living with a fabulous welsh pony when she was young, both 2yr old fillies, great friends, and one day the Welsh pony managed to break the top rail of the fence and promptly jumped/crashed over it in and grazed the new grass on the other side, my filly just piaffed on her side of the fence, they were both doing what they had been bred to do, piaffe and eat!

 

[Peglo]

I do appreciate that point, but I'm not sure about horses not knowing about riding until we've done it, obviously they dont understand the human concept of "riding", but these horses that are bred to do a specific job will often show that before they've ever seen a saddle. As TPO said, young horses bred to work cattle will do it before they have been backed, young dressage horses will do dressage movements in the field before they are backed, young jumpers, jump etc, and I think they often show a desire for human company which makes working with so easy.

In fairness I never actually said they didn’t have any of those instincts though. Just that being sat on by a predator (humans) and doing them isn’t a natural instinct. Especially when making a comparison to collie dogs herding.

My horses buck, rear, kick, leap, spin, roll and do sliding stops at fences when in the field but I wouldn’t enjoy doing any of that on their backs extended trot and collected canter in a square at a safe distance from the fence would be much better for my blood pressure unfortunately they don’t choose to do it.

 

[shortstuff99]

Oh dear

FEI Issues Two Yellow Warning Cards to Dressage Riders for Abuse of Horse

FEI Issues Two Yellow Warning Cards to Dressage Riders for Abuse of Horse

eurodressage.com

 

[Tiddlypom]

Misuse of a whip by a Brit rider in a dressage warm up .

 

[Foxford]

British Olympic legend 'mentally crucified' after scandal banned her from Paris

She is reportedly still receiving death threats.

metro.co.uk

This kind of hyperbolic response really annoys me. I wonder if this is part of the relaunch strategy - assuming her length of ban will be announced soon and she needs to have some kind of comeback plan?

 

[eahotson]

British Olympic legend 'mentally crucified' after scandal banned her from Paris

She is reportedly still receiving death threats.

metro.co.uk

This kind of hyperbolic response really annoys me. I wonder if this is part of the relaunch strategy - assuming her length of ban will be announced soon and she needs to have some kind of comeback plan?

Apparently there are people who stand outside her house threatening her and have even threatened her farrier.This is unforgivable and makes them as bad or worse than her.
I abhore what she did but she has paid a high price.She has lost sponsors,missed the Olympics and been head line news round the entire world for all the wrong reasons.She should have a ban and possibly a fine and then a line should be drawn under it and she should be able to move forward IMHO.

 

[Snowfilly]

Apparently there are people who stand outside her house threatening her and have even threatened her farrier.This is unforgivable and makes them as bad or worse than her.
I abhore what she did but she has paid a high price.She has lost sponsors,missed the Olympics and been head line news round the entire world for all the wrong reasons.She should have a ban and possibly a fine and then a line should be drawn under it and she should be able to move forward IMHO.

There shouldn’t be bullying and especially not of the farrier, those horses need their feet doing.

But I don’t think a line should be drawn under it. A teacher who abuses children is never allowed to work with children again; a horseman who abuses horses should never be allowed to work or be with them again. Ban and fine, yes, but it should be a career ending thing.

 

[eahotson]

There shouldn’t be bullying and especially not of the farrier, those horses need their feet doing.

But I don’t think a line should be drawn under it. A teacher who abuses children is never allowed to work with children again; a horseman who abuses horses should never be allowed to work or be with them again. Ban and fine, yes, but it should be a career ending thing.

We are all entitled to our opinion but Julie Hanson Taylor, who wrote the book "I can't bear to watch any more?" which makes very grim reading indeed, is not a fan of horse sports or Charlotte said it made her sick to her stomache to see Charlotte thrown under a bus by people who have done as much and in some instances much worse than her.

 

[Snowfilly]

We are all entitled to our opinion but Julie Hanson Taylor, who wrote the book "I can't bear to watch any more?" which makes very grim reading indeed, is not a fan of horse sports or Charlotte said it made her sick to her stomache to see Charlotte thrown under a bus by people who have done as much and in some instances much worse than her.

The remedy for this is not to pull Charlotte out from under the bus; it’s to find the others who have done the same or worse and then punish them the same way. We might loose half the international riders in a year, mighr see the sport collapse entirely. Do it and be done with and then start again with what’s left.

 

[tristars]

My concern is centered around the horse who was beaten how is that horse now, where is it, how does it feel, the day it was beaten how did it feel alone In the stable that night, the pain and confusion must have been a hard time for that horse to go through

I don't know about the fei giving yellow cards, it's the fei who should be carded and banned, they have created this state of affairs, they set the rules, standards of conduct, and then not adhered to them it's a state of paralysis, what the hell happens next

The fei have for years ignored animal welfare and true humane training of horses, they know full well what goes on, yet have time and again rewarded it, and people have seen this and turned away from watching something they don't like

And the riders are caught up in this, if you want to win you have to conform and ride that way, the riders are not in it for the art, they are competitors, with the drive to win, it seems sometimes at the expense of the horse and now at the ultimate cost to themselves

Like all things that swerve off course they have lost their way, the tower must fall, and be rebuilt on a new and different model

Cjd is a victim of a system, yes, but she did have a choice, the fei are the true villains for lacking in vision and allowing dressage to evolve to the point of self destruction, bringing down the riders and causing untold suffering to many horses.

 

[eahotson]

My concern is centered around the horse who was beaten how is that horse now, where is it, how does it feel, the day it was beaten how did it feel alone In the stable that night, the pain and confusion must have been a hard time for that horse to go through

I don't know about the fei giving yellow cards, it's the fei who should be carded and banned, they have created this state of affairs, they set the rules, standards of conduct, and then not adhered to them it's a state of paralysis, what the hell happens next

The fei have for years ignored animal welfare and true humane training of horses, they know full well what goes on, yet have time and again rewarded it, and people have seen this and turned away from watching something they don't like

And the riders are caught up in this, if you want to win you have to conform and ride that way, the riders are not in it for the art, they are competitors, with the drive to win, it seems sometimes at the expense of the horse and now at the ultimate cost to themselves

Like all things that swerve off course they have lost their way, the tower must fall, and be rebuilt on a new and different model

Cjd is a victim of a system, yes, but she did have a choice, the fei are the true villains for lacking in vision and allowing dressage to evolve to the point of self destruction, bringing down the riders and causing untold suffering to many horses.

Not just in dressage.

 

[splashgirl45]

I get a bit fed up of the demonising of dressage yet the show jumpers and other disciplines are being ignored. All horse sport and training needs to be judged . I found the CDJ video so hard to watch I switched it off as I had seen enough but death threats and people outside her house is going too far IMO.. she has a husband and a child who deserve that

 

[ester]

No they're not, have you missed the andrew mcconnon stuff?

I think overall for the competition bit eventing and show jumping have appeared to do more in recent years to address some of the big issues. Blue tongues hit the headlines 15 years ago, and it just seems to be an even bigger problem now and all that happened was a group of riders was spoken too, nothing official It just seems a bit stuck.

 

[splashgirl45]

Yes, but that’s the only one

 

[ester]

Definitely no george morrison stuff either then, or mark todd's video, Kocher's electric spurs, british breeder promoting his riders rollkur in the eventing arena walk in paris to me there's a pretty rolling stock of stuff coming out from all sectors.

 

[eahotson]

Definitely no george morrison stuff either then, or mark todd's video, Kocher's electric spurs to me there's a pretty rolling stock of stuff coming out from all sectors.

Racing isn't always very pretty either.Appalling video of a horse so terrified of the gate it was blindfolded,and people were pushing it from behind and pulling it from the front.The commentator said it was being "stubborn. " If that had been a dog would people have reacted like that?

 

[bonny]

Racing isn't always very pretty either.Appalling video of a horse so terrified of the gate it was blindfolded,and people were pushing it from behind and pulling it from the front.The commentator said it was being "stubborn. " If that had been a dog would people have reacted like that?

Ever watched greyhounds being loaded ?

 

[eahotson]

Ever watched greyhounds being loaded ?

Oh God.Is there no end to it.

 

[tristars]

Trouble with dressage is that, well it is just that, the training of the horse, as presented to the judges who are supposed to mark each movement on its correctness, so if they chose to mark high incorrectness that is the winner, and sets the standard to achieve if you want to win

With a lot of other sports it's clear who jumped clear or went fastest, and does not rely on someone's opinion

There are concerns in many sports, for me especially dressage and racing, and murky clouds around multiple welfare
Issues off piste

 

[eahotson]

Inequsable

Trouble with dressage is that, well it is just that, the training of the horse, as presented to the judges who are supposed to mark each movement on its correctness, so if they chose to mark high incorrectness that is the winner, and sets the standard to achieve if you want to win

With a lot of other sports it's clear who jumped clear or went fastest, and does not rely on someone's opinion

There are concerns in many sports, for me especially dressage and racing, and murky clouds around multiple welfare
Issues off piste

Showing is pretty much the same.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Two minute piece on at 7.28 am on this morning’s Radio 4 Today program re the FEI responding to welfare events in dressage, including the CDJ episode. Laura Scott was voicing it.

Sorry only half heard it as was putting the washing on, but it included whether dressage/horse sports at the Olympics are in peril.

 

[eahotson]

I think,unless radical change happens,it is.Not immediately perhaps but soon.

 

[southerncomfort]

Ben Atkinson posted this yesterday. Been mulling it over ever since. While I agree with the gist of it, and anyone who feels the need to send people death threats needs help quite frankly. But the rest of it feels a bit 'please turn a blind eye and don't make a fuss in case you upset the bad horse trainer'. I can't get on board with that. That's how we've ended up where we are. Maybe I've read it wrong...

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/rCyBpM4KiN9SA7et/

 

[Equi]

Ben Atkinson posted this yesterday. Been mulling it over ever since. While I agree with the gist of it, and anyone who feels the need to send people death threats needs help quite frankly. But the rest of it feels a bit 'please turn a blind eye and don't make a fuss in case you upset the bad horse trainer'. I can't get on board with that. That's how we've ended up where we are. Maybe I've read it wrong...

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/rCyBpM4KiN9SA7et/

I believe he was referring to DHO