Expectations of 'bonding' with your horse detrimental to horse ownership?

[be positive]

^ This. I want my horses to be happy, relatively speaking, in their work, to be happy with me in their space and to accept when I need to to do things they might not like. I want them to have an easy life - and that means they need to make their own lives easy, and mine too, as much as possible.

I also actively want them to be happy on their own too. One NH trainer used to rave about their horses pacing/field walking / screaming its head off and being entirely unhappy when they weren't with the horse. That to me is an utter failure for that poor horse.

Having a horse so distressed is a sign of failure not success and one example of why I am not keen on what I hear of many NH trainers, a well adjusted horse should be happy with other horses, ideally they should also be happy, or at least appear to be, left alone for short periods, I say short periods as I don't think they should ever live totally alone.

 

[Trinket12]

As a new horse owner, I wanted that “bond” however as an adult who has done her homework, what I realized fairly quickly is we can have a good relationship, but I have to put the work in.

That means I am firm and clear in my schooling and in hand work. So now she is (mostly) well behaved when we walk out in hand, stays at my side etc. I wonder if people mistake good and consistent training for the “bond”. Without realizing the work both parties have to do to have that seeming “bond”.

I always get ears forward and a little greeting when she sees me, but only because I’m the tiny human with the treats.

I am under no illusion that if disappeared tomorrow but there was still someone to give her a carrot, I wouldn’t even be a passing thought ?

 

[Cortez]

As a new horse owner, I wanted that “bond” however as an adult who has done her homework, what I realized fairly quickly is we can have a good relationship, but I have to put the work in.

That means I am firm and clear in my schooling and in hand work. So now she is (mostly) well behaved when we walk out in hand, stays at my side etc. I wonder if people mistake good and consistent training for the “bond”. Without realizing the work both parties have to do to have that seeming “bond”.

I always get ears forward and a little greeting when she sees me, but only because I’m the tiny human with the treats.

I am under no illusion that if disappeared tomorrow but there was still someone to give her a carrot, I wouldn’t even be a passing thought ?

See, this is where I get a bit lost.....I have no desire for horses to go all googly when I appear, with or without food; I just want them to understand what I want and do it calmly and without stress. If they were to run around neighing, get in my face in the field, bang the doors or generally do Black Stallion/My Friend Flicker/Black Beauty type stuff I'd be really pee'd off.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

I think if you replace the word bond with partnership it leads to a more healthy horse/human relationship. The word partnership gives a better idea of what we are striving for with our horses, I think..??
I like a partnership with my horses, a mutual respect, understanding and trust.

 

[JFTDWS]

If they were to run around neighing, get in my face in the field, bang the doors or generally do Black Stallion/My Friend Flicker/Black Beauty type stuff I'd be really pee'd off.

Mine look up when they hear my car / see me coming. My mare sometimes whickers at me from where she's standing. I like that.

Banging doors, crowding gates, running around neighing - those would all be rude and unacceptable.

I like my PDAs nice and British, thanks. None of this Americanised in-your-face nonsense here.

 

[Jules111]

I like to think i'm a stickler for ensuring my horses are safe and well mannered as a minimum so definitely not a "fur babies" mindset. However I do think there are horses you have stronger connection with. The mare I lost a few months ago was not a welcoming horse in any way, her resting bitch face could curdle milk. I met her before she was for sale and there was most definitely something about her I couldn't resist.

When I rode her, despite not being the easiest ride by any stretch of the imagination, I just didn't want to get off, it just felt like she was with me even when she didn't want to do what I was asking. On the rare occasions she allowed me to show her affection I really felt like she was rewarding me. When she was very poorly at the end she trusted me to get her up and lead her on that last walk, I felt like she was telling me she'd had enough. Not sure i'd call it a bond but I miss that grumpy, cantankerous old girl more than any animal I've ever dealt with, I think I "got" her and loved her for her quirks and she "allowed" me care for her. I've had a drink so I'll admit there was no smell like snuzzling into her neck, i'd recognise that smell anywhere. There are 15 headcollers in my tack room that have belonged to many different horses over the years... I can pick hers out by smell alone.

I've no doubt she'd have left me standing if a tiger approached but I do believe she'd have run around me rather than through me .

 

[Winters100]

I think if you replace the word bond with partnership it leads to a more healthy horse/human relationship. The word partnership gives a better idea of what we are striving for with our horses, I think..??
I like a partnership with my horses, a mutual respect, understanding and trust.

Totally agree. I don't mind using the word 'bond', but to me it is not some mythical thing, but a bond of respect and trust which is achieved by being calm and consistent in what I expect of them and how they may expect to be treated. I love my horses very much, but I am under no illusions that they love me back. They respect me, and they know that I am not a threat to them, but I really don't like it when people say 'oh, look how they love you' - no they follow me without a rope simply because this is what I have taught them that I expect and require.

It seems that many now have the view that their animals can only be happy with them, and that they are the only people who can care for them properly. To me this is absurd, it is simply not true that we are the only ones who can care for our animals, neither is it desirable for any animal to feel so dependent upon a human to feel secure. If your animal is overly dependant on you (and I have had this problem with a dog who I had nursed through 2 major surgeries) then you need to do something to make sure that they can feel calm and happy in other situations. I will never sell either of my horses, at least that is my expectation, but none of us knows what the future brings, and if I was ever unable to be here for them I would never want to think that they were any less content with their new owner or carer than they are with me.

 

[Rokele55]

Some people can work with any animal. Horses just say hello, what do you want, I can do that (or at least try). Just look at some jockeys or event riders who inspire their just introduced mounts to great efforts. Just imagine what they could earn if it could be bottled and sold. I wonder if they ever use he word bond?

 

[DabDab]

Mine look up when they hear my car / see me coming. My mare sometimes whickers at me from where she's standing. I like that.

Banging doors, crowding gates, running around neighing - those would all be rude and unacceptable.

I like my PDAs nice and British, thanks. None of this Americanised in-your-face nonsense here.

Pebbles is very chatty but it doesn't mean a great deal I don't think. She does sometimes do it to try and catch your attention, but mostly it's just chatter at random things (the barn robin gets nickered at a lot for example). Arty only nickers on occasion when I approach with saddle (probably correlates to whether she happens to be a bit bored), other than that she neighs, one loud short neigh, every so often, which is most definitely her shouting some sort of order at me. She is always ignored, but it does amuse me as much as it is irritating, I just love the brass neck on her

 

[PapaverFollis]

Mine all come in from the field when I call. They stand while I faff with them and they willingly accept tack. They seem pleased to be in my company and for us to be doing something. I'm pretty sure some of it is because it a sequence of events at which there is a treat at the end (and I do mean one measly horse treat after I dismount! ) . I do like that they at least appear to like it all though.

I don't think it is bond as such. It's a functional working relationship on the whole. They are moments of companionship within the processes of the day that are more profound than just a mechanical I do X so you do Y input output behavioural response but those moments are seperate from my behavioural expectations of them I think.

When things go a bit wrong (as they did today with Beast) I don't think "oh god I need to work on our bond" I think "what are the causes of this behaviour and how can I fix it". I think if you are tied up in the idea of bond you start to take everything waaaaay too personally.

 

[AdorableAlice]

The nose of my young horse bonded with my wooden spoon this evening as he forgot his table manners in a rather rude way, all 17.2 of him.

 

[JJS]

The deal was clear, the horse's welfare was the human's responsibility and it included everyday basics such as food and water plus compatible turnout companions, shelter in inclement weather, exercise, veterinary care and importantly good training (which also made sure the horse was rehomable if the need ever arose).

Horses recognising and neighing at their owners/grooms was normal. I was encouraged to find when grooming if a horse had an itchy spot that they enjoyed having groomed etc... the horse was never treated as a machine and violence was not tolerated.


So...
Has this expectation of developing a magical 'bond' with your horse actually been detrimental to new horse owners?
Have their expectations of horse ownership been skewed into something unachievable?
Would they be better off just using good basic horsemanship (of whatever flavour) and let the relationship with their horse develop naturally over time?

I don’t see that the two need to be mutually exclusive. Rather, I think there’s a tendency to look back on the past with rose-tinted glasses. Basic horsemanship still exists, and in many ways, we do better by our equines now than we did before, because we’re less willing to write problems off as bad behaviour and more willing to look for the root cause.

Personally, I still see it as my job to provide all of the above, but I also believe that me and my horses have a pretty strong bond (I know, I know - I used a dirty word!). That’s because, while I don’t expect them to fend off a tiger on my behalf, I do believe that they enjoy spending time with me and that there’s a real degree of trust and affection between us.

To me, that constitutes a bond - one that benefits us both and helps contribute towards a better partnership (both ridden and on the ground) in the long run.

 

[smolmaus]

Speaking as someone who has yet to own their own horse and I suppose, someone primed to fall into this trap... what is the point where "bond" goes beyond the horse trusting you and knowing your body language as an individual (and vice versa) to woo territory? We all anthropomorphise them to some extent, humans will do that to anything, so is it when you expect them to act... not like a horse?

 

[JFTDWS]

"I won't sell my [dangerous, poorly managed] horse because we have an unbreakable bond"

"I will continue to do [dangerous, stupid thing] with my horse because we have an unbreakable bond"

"My horse behaves like that [clearly unhappy in general life] because of our speshul unbreakable bond"

^That's when you hit woo territory...

 

[NLPM]

I grew up reading Jinny and Shantih so I had ridiculously high expectations of my poor first pony!

I like to think I have a stronger bond with one of mine over the others, but realistically...
- he'll always be special to me as he's been mine for the past 25 years. He just thinks I'm the only person in the world with access to carrots as no one else has ever given him one, ergo he will always approach me first.
- we've built up an awful lot of trust in that time, which in bad situations can look on the outside like a strong bond but is simply one of us having enough determination to outweigh the other one's fear. We know each other pretty well too so I can pick up very quickly when he's anxious - which has happened less and less as he's gotten older, wiser and more trusting.
- it's really all on his terms. He always approaches me as soon as I get into the field, gets in the way of whatever I'm trying to do in order to get a cuddle and a scratch, follows me around a bit... and then goes back to whatever he was doing before. Lovely that he consistently chooses to come and potter about with me but I'm not kidding myself - if I opened all the field gates tomorrow he wouldn't hang around just because he likes me. He'd forsake his strip-grazed patch for next door's cattle field within minutes.

I don't mind people talking about a bond with their horses as long as it's not an excuse for poor behaviour. Especially when 'we have such a bond, I'm the only one that can catch/hoofpick/ride him' - the idea that horses have a 'chosen one' and no one else could possibly handle the horse really angers me as that's not a happy horse. "Bonding" with your horse should not involve setting them up to fail when you're not there.

 

[PapaverFollis]

I think it becomes a bit "woo" when you expect creating a "bond" to fix a training problem. When in reality consistent handling and training is what creates the relationship.

Trying to create a "bond" causes people to be desperate for the horse to like them so the handling can go inconsistent because they are trying too hard to be really nice and end up being ineffective.

Also the expectation that it's all going to be sunshine and buttercups because you love them soooooo much. And then it's not. Cos it's just horses and reality.

 

[FourLeafClover]

A couple of days ago, I went and checked on my horse at lunchtime in the stable. He is out at night at the moment and is often found snoozing laid down during the day. He always lets me sit with him, stroke his face, and sometimes rest his head on me. This day, I sat across him, stroked his withers and his belly and within about five seconds was stretching down for a proper flat out, neck stretched sleep, with me still sat on his back stroking his belly.
It was pretty amazing. If we don’t have a ‘bond’ there is definitely trust there after 3 and a half years ?

 

[smolmaus]

"I won't sell my [dangerous, poorly managed] horse because we have an unbreakable bond"

"I will continue to do [dangerous, stupid thing] with my horse because we have an unbreakable bond"

"My horse behaves like that [clearly unhappy in general life] because of our speshul unbreakable bond"

^That's when you hit woo territory...

Okay yeah I can see that. Where feelings override actual behaviour is a line to draw.

I am definitely a person who wants animals to like me so I do need to be aware of these pitfalls! I am the person who lets the dog play bitey games when she is not allowed to play bitey games with other people so that's something I should probably work on.

Thank you thread ?

 

[DabDab]

I think it becomes a bit "woo" when you expect creating a "bond" to fix a training problem. When in reality consistent handling and training is what creates the relationship.

Trying to create a "bond" causes people to be desperate for the horse to like them so the handling can go inconsistent because they are trying too hard to be really nice and end up being ineffective.

Also the expectation that it's all going to be sunshine and buttercups because you love them soooooo much. And then it's not. Cos it's just horses and reality.

Yep, I think that sums up the 'bond' pitfall pretty well.

 

[shortstuff99]

Talking of woo bonds, I have inadvertently managed to teach my horse a really useful command. I'm not even sure how I did it but whenever I say 'head down please' she lowers her head. Really useful when your short and the horse is tall. Maybe there is something mystical in it ?.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I think I’m very fortunate to have bought a very calm, sweet boy. He will gallop past the person who normally catches him in if he sees me. He herds other horses away from me (probably terrified they’ll get the carrot he knows I have!) He comes to call, shouts if he hears me walking onto the yard, gets annoyed if I dare to talk to the horse opposite.

I’d say we have a bond, but a lot of it is to do with me providing food/attention. He demands cuddles and is quite arsey if I won’t cave into his demands. I do think he likes me, there is a bond, but I think he’d dump me if someone offered food. Lockdown has helped, I’m having to catch him in, which isn’t usual.

I don’t think a well-behaved, well schooled horse and a bond are mutually exclusive. You can have both, even if the bond is based on you being the main carer/food giver. I’m strict with him, because I‘m concerned about safety, plus he’s a big lad, so he has has to have manners and is a dream to handle/ride.

 

[PapaverFollis]

I think we're discussing two different things really.

The bond or relationship itself. A provable phenomenon that has fallen out of the long history of domestication of the horse. Which itself can be surprisingly profound but is counterbalanced with a healthy dose of horse running away from lions and leaving you to rot type behaviour... or whinnying at the yard owner because they bring them hay too... etc. This bond is not damaged by the application of some discipline. And is not expected to replace training. And the owner doesn't take it personally when the horse acts like... a horse.

And then there is the active *seeking* of a "special bond" at the expense of setting the occasional boundary. Where the "bond" is essentially all in the owner's head and it's character is largely expected to be similar to that found in fiction. Usually accompanied by the horse being a spoilt brat. Or a disappointed owner who can't just enjoy the horse for what they are.

The last person who went on about special bonds to me, I ended up holding the poor sod of a horse while it colicked for hours and hours and noone could get in touch with the owner... given that she insisted the horse talked to her all the time I'm amazed it didn't tell her to get her arse on the phone to the vet so it could be PTS sooner.

 

[Leo Walker]

I've had what looked like that mythical bond with one horse. I got hm from a troubled past and out of a situation where he wasn't happy. He hated me and everyone else for about a month, then decided I was it for him. It coincided with me getting rid of his pain issues. In his head he equated me with a safe, happy place. While it was kind of nice that he loved me and hated everyone else its not acceptable.

I spent 3 months or so gradually introducing other people. My friend came up to see him most days and made a fuss of him, gave him a treat and left. My partner did the same. I basically had as many people fuss over him as possible while I did all the other stuff in a very matter of fact way.

He still always preferred me to everyone else, he would always watch me to see where I was, and run over whinnying when I came, but he was ok for other people to handle as well and had one or two that he actively liked. He dropped weight when I had my eye problems and wasn't around much though. People always commented on how he was with me though, and I suspect it would have been very easy to talk about our amazing bond, blah, blah, blah.

When he went to be retired I was heart broken and worried he wouldn't settle without me. He ran round the field screaming for 2 days and I was worrying it would be PTS time if he didn't settle, when all of a sudden he did settle. If I hadn't made the effort initially to get him accepting of other people and not as dependant on me I don't think he would ever have settled and he would have been PTS without even trying retirement.

 

[Winters100]

Some people can work with any animal. Horses just say hello, what do you want, I can do that (or at least try). Just look at some jockeys or event riders who inspire their just introduced mounts to great efforts. Just imagine what they could earn if it could be bottled and sold. I wonder if they ever use he word bond?

We have a trainer who is just like this - amazing at dealing with tricky horses and really gets the best out of them. But I don't think it is any special gift, rather the result of years of experience and hard work which gives him knowledge about how best to deal with a wide range of behaviours.

 

[Trouper]

Someone on my yard today said they wanted a foal as they would develop a better bond....

God - where do you start!......................

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I think we're discussing two different things really.

The bond or relationship itself. A provable phenomenon that has fallen out of the long history of domestication of the horse. Which itself can be surprisingly profound but is counterbalanced with a healthy dose of horse running away from lions and leaving you to rot type behaviour... or whinnying at the yard owner because they bring them hay too... etc. This bond is not damaged by the application of some discipline. And is not expected to replace training. And the owner doesn't take it personally when the horse acts like... a horse.

And then there is the active *seeking* of a "special bond" at the expense of setting the occasional boundary. Where the "bond" is essentially all in the owner's head and it's character is largely expected to be similar to that found in fiction. Usually accompanied by the horse being a spoilt brat. Or a disappointed owner who can't just enjoy the horse for what they are.

The last person who went on about special bonds to me, I ended up holding the poor sod of a horse while it colicked for hours and hours and noone could get in touch with the owner... given that she insisted the horse talked to her all the time I'm amazed it didn't tell her to get her arse on the phone to the vet so it could be PTS sooner.

Yes I think you've explained the difference between the realistic use of the word 'bond' and the unrealistic use.

When I have heard it used IRL and often on the forum, people do appear to mean the second definition more and more. So that is really the one I was questioning.

A - 'I have this issue when riding'
B - 'I'm sure some lessons with *good instructor* would help'
A - 'Oh no I don't want to ruin our bond'

It's not a conversation that I would have ever expected to have even just a few years ago.

 

[milliepops]

I think we're discussing two different things really.

The bond or relationship itself. A provable phenomenon that has fallen out of the long history of domestication of the horse. Which itself can be surprisingly profound but is counterbalanced with a healthy dose of horse running away from lions and leaving you to rot type behaviour... or whinnying at the yard owner because they bring them hay too... etc. This bond is not damaged by the application of some discipline. And is not expected to replace training. And the owner doesn't take it personally when the horse acts like... a horse.

And then there is the active *seeking* of a "special bond" at the expense of setting the occasional boundary. Where the "bond" is essentially all in the owner's head and it's character is largely expected to be similar to that found in fiction. Usually accompanied by the horse being a spoilt brat. Or a disappointed owner who can't just enjoy the horse for what they are.

The last person who went on about special bonds to me, I ended up holding the poor sod of a horse while it colicked for hours and hours and noone could get in touch with the owner... given that she insisted the horse talked to her all the time I'm amazed it didn't tell her to get her arse on the phone to the vet so it could be PTS sooner.

I, too, think this separates the concepts well.

I would say I'm very close to one of mine, bit like LW it's a triumph over adversity type of relationship between us and she is - for my horses - unusually affectionate and keen to seek contact, reassurance and company etc and that only really happened when I changed the way I thought about her. something funny happened when I decided to "like" her rather than just train her, she sort of opened up hugely. but the lions... well, bye bye then. i think we just understand each other really well.

the thing about not taking it personally is a critical point, I think. That's where it tends to go from nice interactions between horse and owner, and wooo territory. "he's trying to piss me off" type thoughts are related to this too I think.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

This was also in my mind when I started this thread.

I'm only selling him as I don't feel we are bonding

From the ad for that grey on YCBM's thread.

Now I'm not saying the no one should ever sell an unsuitable horse, it's just that something about it made me wonder if unrealistic expectations maybe played a part?

 

[milliepops]

This was also in my mind when I started this thread.



From the ad for that grey on YCBM's thread.

Now I'm not saying the no one should ever sell an unsuitable horse, it's just that something about it made me wonder if unrealistic expectations maybe played a part?

yeah it's impossible to say with that individual, but going on threads on here, it definitely seems like some people expect to develop a relationship with a new horse over a couple of weeks. I think horses often take 6 months upwards to settle into a new environment and learn to understand/trust/etc a new person. So you have to be prepared to go through the motions to a degree until that happens.

 

[luckyoldme]

I bought my horse after waiting 30 years to have my own.
I expected to have a bond but realised very quickly he was very very hard work.
Im not that experienced but worked out that i had to loose the emotion and be a bit mor practical.
Ihad a lot of problems with him but we worked through it at a really slow pace.
There was a definate moment where every thing fell into place between us and he knew he could trust me.
We had 10 years together and I remember it with rose tinted glasses and memories of a special bond.
We believe what we want to sometimes just because it makes us happy. Wether its true or not ( if that makes sense)