Facebook footage of welsh stud delivering youngstock to abattoir

[CanteringCarrot]

That video made me terribly terribly sad. I don't think this is ok at all. I sympathise these are difficult times, but I feel the stud owner has let these poor babies down massively.
If they couldn't be sold on then why not turn out until next spring? And if they had no other choice other than to be pts then why not do it at home? Familiar surroundings and nose in a bucket? Not hauled for god knows how long to a stranger place stinking of death.
I'm truly sickened by the human race on times ?

It possible they could not afford to turn them out until next spring. I am not sure of the circumstances. I also do not know, aside from their gender (?) what made them unable to be sold. I can only assume little demand.

I am not opposed to a horses body being used for meat and other products, as we can't technically bury them here and at least you know the body is to be of some use. We have horse based pet food, lanolin, chewing bones for dogs, and so on. Not sure how this is different from a cow. Arguably a horse is more intelligent but people really anthromorphasize. I think a better way may have been to shoot them (not terribly expensive) then have the remains hauled off for rendering, but I don't know the logistics of all that and why they saw going direct to the abattoir as a better option.

 

[Ranyhyn]

That video made me terribly terribly sad. I don't think this is ok at all. I sympathise these are difficult times, but I feel the stud owner has let these poor babies down massively.
If they couldn't be sold on then why not turn out until next spring? And if they had no other choice other than to be pts then why not do it at home? Familiar surroundings and nose in a bucket? Not hauled for god knows how long to a stranger place stinking of death.
I'm truly sickened by the human race on times ?

It is terribly sad, thats a given. But honestly, a producer of this ilk is not in the market of overwintering an animal which is not paying its way or more or less guaranteed to pay its way eventually (ie a mare) in this climate you simply cannot afford to take a punt on anything. This is going to happen more. If its not worth money or going to be worth good money its going to get knocked on the head pretty sharpish over the coming months.

Great time for those of you with the money and correct situation to lie in wait to snap up fairly good animals.

 

[Equine_Dream]

In normal circumstances I would say yes, give them another year, halter break them and get them handled and gelded and then they are easier to sell on.

However maybe finances do not allow for this, the breeder had died, maybe the family who have inherited the ponies have to sell land to pay for inheritance tax....this is not a normal situation as the person who owned the ponies has died.

They would hardly have fetched a good price going for meat...
I realise the circumstances are difficult but I wouldn't want that on my conscious.
I also wonder how many of their mares are back in foal for next year ?

 

[Equine_Dream]

I would add, I understand completely why people are upset. Seeing three beautiful and (on the surface) healthy foals being taken into an abbatoir is not a nice sight. BUT I think the witch hunt on the stud is slightly counter productive. If they go out of business then what happens to their horses then? There may be a lorry load arriving at the local slaughter house shortly afterwards...

 

[ester]

It's not about them fetching a good price, it's how much money is put into them that wouldn't otherwise need to be spent, such as PTS at home and disposal.

 

[Equine_Dream]

It's not about them fetching a good price, it's how much money is put into them that wouldn't otherwise need to be spent, such as PTS at home and disposal.

Ok but then I wonder what price they were offered at for private sale? Were they offered at the same price as they fetched going for meat? I doubt it. And yes there is a risk they could end up in a poor home but that is a risk of any horse that is sold.

 

[ycbm]

I think the meat argument is a question of intent. If your intent is to breed beef, sheep, pork and to create milk, then I have no issue with the product going into the food chain as humanely as possible.

But if your intention is to breed pet ponies, and you do so with complete lack of concern as to how you might have to dispose of an unwanted surplus, then I have an issue with that. (We don't know if this stud did that or if their circumstances changed.)

I would prefer no animals to end their lives in an abattoir. But I eat meat and accept that it is part of that. I try not to drink much milk because of the calves being taken off their mothers at a day old.

But yes, I find I do have an issue with not caring about giving any horse the best end it can have, and nobody would class taking weanlings to an abattoir as that.



PS the trial by social media is an awful, unacceptable part of the Internet age.
.

 

[rabatsa]

My husband has a saying "The first loss is the smallest" he says this a lot about animals.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Equine Dream said "If they couldn't be sold on then why not turn out until next spring? And if they had no other choice other than to be pts then why not do it at home? Familiar surroundings and nose in a bucket? Not hauled for god knows how long to a stranger place stinking of death".

Very emotive words but somewhat exaggerated. If the foals had been sold they would, to use your words 'have been hauled for god knows how long' to a new home and that might well have been further than from Wales to Bristol. What is the difference where they end up? As for the slaughterhouse 'stinking of death', I have been there and can assure you it definitely doesn't and just as well as it is in a built up area. When I was there, there were ponies and horses penned all round the approach to the killing chamber and all were totally unconcerned. One was an Exmoor which grieved me. I took two ponies there and they were no more upset than they would have been at a show. The only persons upset were me and my husband. To have them put down at home would cost in the region of £200 each in my experience so that would have been about £600. I hate the idea of lovely well bred foals being put down full stop but have lived long enough and in the farming world to be realistic.
A friend of mine bought a very nice NF filly at Melton Mowbray sales back in the 1980's. She came out of a pen of 6 or 8. All had been bought as foals by a farmer who then ran them on with his cattle till a sensible age to sell. Two went to private homes and the others went on the meat wagon at the end of the day. We were horrified as they were all lovely quality ponies. Back then there were always meat buyers at the local sales. I hope things have changed since then. Much better that ponies go direct from the stud to the abattoir than trawled round the sales as they used to be.

 

[milliepops]

I think the meat argument is a question of intent. If your intent is to breed beef, sheep, pork and to create milk, then I have no issue with the product going into the food chain as humanely as possible.

But if your intention is to breed pet ponies, and you do so with complete lack of concern as to how you might have to dispose of an unwanted surplus, then I have an issue with that. (We don't know if this stud did that or if their circumstances changed.)

I would prefer no animals to end their lives in an abattoir. But I eat meat and accept that it is part of that. I try not to drink much milk because of the calves being taken off their mothers at a day old.

But yes, I find I do have an issue with not caring about giving any horse the best end it can have, and nobody would class taking weanlings to an abattoir as that.



PS the trial by social media is an awful, unacceptable part of the Internet age.
.

I get what you're saying about intent, but when it comes down to it, if people are prepared to send cows and sheep to an abattoir then I really can't see the difference in terms of the animal's experience, what species it is. to the animal, the intent of the owner breeding it has little relevance. People can wring their hands about it all but the cow didn't want to be bred to be eaten any more than the foal wanted to be sent to the abattoir (leaving aside neither of them knew anything about it until the last moments). it's all kind of meaningless IMO.

People intentionally kill animals all the time. I'm not sure what makes these ones more special tbh

 

[honetpot]

If you look hard enough some foals were sold this year,
https://www.voofla.com/GB/Newbury/145992772145283/Springbourne-&-Blanche-Welsh-Mountain-Ponies
Some were on here,
https://farmersmarts.auctionmarts.c...zU5MDgyLWU1MWQtNDY3Ni05Yzg1LTQxNzNhNTViNGYzMA
As I have spent most of my equestrian life buying other peoples cast offs, usually as youngstock, and making the best of them, I find it difficult to believe unless something was wrong with them, they could not have been found knowledgable homes as stores.
A quick google and there are no ads for a dispersal sale, which if it's a well known stud is how you attract buyers, if you are closing down.

To me it's about honesty, every cow in my paddocks will end up on someones fork, and some friends are a bit off with me about it, but anyone is welcome to see how they are kept and they are kept cleaner in conditions than some horses stables. I have my ponies shot at home, and I am quite happy to defend my choices. Your 'shop front' should not be just a front.

 

[ester]

Just for accuracy they weren't from wales, they are based near newbury and the abattoir is in wiltshire not bristol. About 35 miles trip one way.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Thanks ester . I did rather make an assumption about where the stud and abattoir were based. When I went it was Potters at Bristol. 35 miles is not very far at all. I used to go much further to show mine.

 

[windand rain]

Used to go to Melton mowbray sales regularlly every year from september to january groups of weanling colts were driven off wagons by the dozen. Several of them would have three or four sales stickers on most were exhausted and under nurished by the end of winter with total despair in their eyes. They were almost exclusively New Forest but an odd exmoor or darmoor pony might be amongs them. There are big studs of rare breed ponies that send to slaughter ponies that have prohibited colours and markings perfect foals but unlucky enough to have white stockings or a blaze or white higher than the fetlock male or female. They are never offered for sale they go straight to slaughter once weaned. I am pretty sure Exmoors that dont meet the breed standard go the same way even if its only a slight deviation. I do not think it is right but the whooha this one consignment of three colts has caused does the pony breeds no good at all. They are even more likely now to end up in dire straights there simply are not enough knowledgeable homes for them. You could say well do not breed but sadly it is a tradition that the land management and hill farmers have followed from generation to generation and as someone else commented big cats have to eat too. Equines going to slaughter is nothing new and it is not possible to save them all. In fact every horse owner is supporting this as there are probably three or four horses in dire straight to every one that has a loving home

 

[ester]

HP what a nice looking bunch of kids ponies on the voofla link.

 

[Equine_Dream]

Equine Dream said "If they couldn't be sold on then why not turn out until next spring? And if they had no other choice other than to be pts then why not do it at home? Familiar surroundings and nose in a bucket? Not hauled for god knows how long to a stranger place stinking of death".

Very emotive words but somewhat exaggerated. If the foals had been sold they would, to use your words 'have been hauled for god knows how long' to a new home and that might well have been further than from Wales to Bristol. What is the difference where they end up? As for the slaughterhouse 'stinking of death', I have been there and can assure you it definitely doesn't and just as well as it is in a built up area. When I was there, there were ponies and horses penned all round the approach to the killing chamber and all were totally unconcerned. One was an Exmoor which grieved me. I took two ponies there and they were no more upset than they would have been at a show. The only persons upset were me and my husband. To have them put down at home would cost in the region of £200 each in my experience so that would have been about £600. I hate the idea of lovely well bred foals being put down full stop but have lived long enough and in the farming world to be realistic.
A friend of mine bought a very nice NF filly at Melton Mowbray sales back in the 1980's. She came out of a pen of 6 or 8. All had been bought as foals by a farmer who then ran them on with his cattle till a sensible age to sell. Two went to private homes and the others went on the meat wagon at the end of the day. We were horrified as they were all lovely quality ponies. Back then there were always meat buyers at the local sales. I hope things have changed since then. Much better that ponies go direct from the stud to the abattoir than trawled round the sales as they used to be.

You're right there isn't a difference between them being hauled to a new home or the abbatoir, other than the fact they are being taken to be pts. This is what I take issue with as it imo causes unnecessary upset when the deed could be done at home. It is obviously necessary to transport these ponies to new homes, but quite unnecessary to travel them to be pts. Other than as you say, it's cheaper, which is imo a pretty rubbish excuse for what has happened to these 3 foals.
Now with regards to my comment about the smell, I am curious. Are the animals slaughtered in separate areas? Are the ones waiting for the deed to be done kept at a distance where they would not hear/smell anything that would alert them to what is about to happen? I really hope this is the case?

 

[Orangehorse]

I think it is the same for large scale breeding in any country. If the animal has poor conformation and would not sell, and would be a bad advertisement for the stud.

 

[Ranyhyn]

These people are running a business. Cheaper is totally a very good reason to do it that way round.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

You're right there isn't a difference between them being hauled to a new home or the abbatoir, other than the fact they are being taken to be pts. This is what I take issue with as it imo causes unnecessary upset when the deed could be done at home. It is obviously necessary to transport these ponies to new homes, but quite unnecessary to travel them to be pts. Other than as you say, it's cheaper, which is imo a pretty rubbish excuse for what has happened to these 3 foals.
Now with regards to my comment about the smell, I am curious. Are the animals slaughtered in separate areas? Are the ones waiting for the deed to be done kept at a distance where they would not hear/smell anything that would alert them to what is about to happen? I really hope this is the case?

Perhaps not pleasant reading, but here are current regs in this Link
A horse cannot be killed within sight of another horse or where there are any remains of another animal. (Eg, a previously killed horse).

To add, in some respects, if more than one to put down, then it's more swift in my opinion at abbatoir than doing 1 at a time at home as unless using different areas each time, as one needs pts and winching, before the next one has same procedure. As I say tho, just my opinion, from past experiences.

 

[Equine_Dream]

These people are running a business. Cheaper is totally a very good reason to do it that way round.

Not when it comes to the welfare of your stock, or ensuring they have the best end, and as ymcb put it so well, ending up in an abbatoir is definitely not the best end for these foals.

 

[Ranyhyn]

Not when it comes to the welfare of your stock, or ensuring they have the best end, and as ymcb put it so well, ending up in an abbatoir is definitely not the best end for these foals.

Who measures the best end? Viewers on Facebook?

Are these foals halter broke? Can they be shot at home without being? I dont know. Maybe someone will.

 

[Chinchilla]

Just for accuracy they weren't from wales, they are based near newbury and the abattoir is in wiltshire not bristol. About 35 miles trip one way.

which stud is it?

 

[Chinchilla]

never mind found it
(I'm assuming it's the one who have deleted their facebook page, lol)

 

[Equine_Dream]

Who measures the best end? Viewers on Facebook?

Are these foals halter broke? Can they be shot at home without being? I dont know. Maybe someone will.

Ok Ranyhyn if you see no issue with this then we clearly have very different views on what is a morally acceptable way for animals to be treated.
I actually keep my horses on livery yard which also runs as a Welsh D stud. This years foals were halter broken and leading within a week. It just takes someone to care enough to put the effort in. Unfortunately I can't see how effort or care was invested in these poor babies.

 

[Teaboy]

I couldn’t watch it, I think it’s awful. But for me no more awful then the millions of other animals slaughtered every day around the world. That’s why I only eat plant based.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Those ranty activists hurling abuse in person and on line at responsible folk who take their unwanted equines to a reputable abbatoir will be directly contributing to a rise in more cases like this.


Happy now?

This foal, despite all the odds being stacked against him, did survive after a huge amount of veterinary intervention and dedicated care.

https://news.rspca.org.uk/2015/03/02/gizmo-update-four-month-foal-getting-stronger-every-day/

 

[Chinchilla]

WHAT @Tiddlypom SAID. A thousand times over

Because you know what?
Yeah, it's heartbreaking, those poor babies having to die, of course it is. They didn't ask to be born in the first place - let alone die - and I must admit for the prices horses still seem to be going for, I AM surprised they couldn't be found homes for. But arguably, as has already been said, it is better that they had a quick end than were passed around or dumped to become someone else's problem, or to starve in a ditch; slating the stud really achieves nothing except that, as I observed upthread, they have deleted their facebook page so will undoubtedly become harder to reach. This by extension means they cannot advertise ponies! So all the veganazis have achieved is potentially risking the lives of more ponies and the livelihoods of the people. (And I DO think it is, given the broader context of Coronavirus etc., perhaps simply a matter of finances that they were sent to the abbatoir: our welfare standards in Britain are high, so if someone is struggling financially do they bankrupt themselves paying £200 a pony for home euthanasia or get £50 for sending them to the abbatoir, whilst still ensuring the animals get a quick and painless dispatch?) I think the reaction of the animal 'activists' online has been done with almost no thought as to its consequences and I do not condone it, it certainly will not benefit the animals - or people - in the longterm, which of course when discussing breeding horses you have to think about: it is only sensible when bringing into the world an animal with a lifespan of 30 years.

*ducks below parapet again*

 

[Ranyhyn]

Ok Ranyhyn if you see no issue with this then we clearly have very different views on what is a morally acceptable way for animals to be treated.
.

We probably do. I produce animals for human consumption so to me, animals can be a commodity. While some people elevate the importance of certain animals to align with their personal values, others do not. I am yet to hear a sensible argument for why its any different for my lambs to go to market, than these ponies. I do not employ someone to come to my farm to knock 60 odd lambs on the head. I dont know anyone that does. Maybe its not allowed in order for animals to go into the food chain - someone better read here will hopefully be able to shed light. These ponies are not loved pets. They may be to you but you are not their owner and ultimately their owner has done exactly what she/he has every right to do. Wether or not the GP would prefer to see these ponies wintered out in luxury, or held lovingly whilst a vet administers a lethal dose is totally immaterial. They've done nothing wrong, factually or morally.

 

[luckyoldme]

I think for me its the conflicting messages.
On one hand you've got a proud owner in the ring eith a beautiful looking horse . I would look up to someone who looked after a horse and produced it like that.
On the other hand in order to get that one horse in the ring the same person will knowingly breed many more..knowing full well where some of them will end up.
Thats someone I wouldnt look up to.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Those ranty activists hurling abuse in person and on line at responsible folk who take their unwanted equines to a reputable abbatoir will be directly contributing to a rise in more cases like this.

View attachment 57507
Happy now?

This foal, despite all the odds being stacked against him, did survive after a huge amount of veterinary intervention and dedicated care.

https://news.rspca.org.uk/2015/03/02/gizmo-update-four-month-foal-getting-stronger-every-day/

The 3 ponies knew no suffering. A statement which cannot be said about the coloured foal in the picture. Gizmo’s story and recovery was nothing short of a miracle achieved by outstanding vets.

If more people had the guts to make sensible decisions over unwanted, elderly and infirm horses there would be a lot less suffering. As winter bites, wages are lost or reduced through the pandemic, hay and straw become expensive and short, we will be seeing a lot of unwanted horses and a lot of suffering.