Facebook footage of welsh stud delivering youngstock to abattoir

[Tiddlypom]

I'm sure there are wider issues to discuss re breeding/overbreeding etc but hounding individuals gets noone anywhere. Except making the people doing the hounding feel raight smug about themselves. Hey hey I saved the world today etc.

Well said.

 

[honetpot]

That's quite a sweeping statement. You only have to look at the lead rein and first ridden rings and (small working hunter classes) to see that the welsh A (and small B) still dominant there. So not all welsh ponies are bred as you suggest.

I am one of those sad people who trawl through show catalogues looking at breeding, and certain studs and stallions tend to have more offspring entered, nearly every breed is now divided by type, the old fashioned working type, and the show type. If you are looking for a LR or FR Welsh, you are actually been off if it's not shown inhand as the traits that make it win in hand, often are not the ones you are looking for in a LR, FR.
Our bog standard Welsh A, who is a full brother to a well known stallion, will do any job, but apart from WHP, he was never ever going to win anything, so never went anywhere until he was broken at three.
What worries me, and it has always concerned me, is that certain genes dominate, they are further being culled for looks, or as they would like to say 'type', but the type in favour depends so much on the judge, who could also be a breeder of that same type. Anyone who has had a small pony produced will know that they are mainly ridden by adult riders, with great experience and more time than the average mum. I have a friend who spent a lot of money on buying and having ponies produced, mainly M&M smalls, and the pony that shows well and can be ridden and produced from home with a child rider is a very rare thing.
My failed Welsh A, who has done PC, hunted, broken to drive and put up with novice children would have been culled now, mainly because he was the wrong colour, but when he was young there was a better market.

I'm sure there are wider issues to discuss re breeding/overbreeding etc but hounding individuals gets noone anywhere. Except making the people doing the hounding feel raight smug about themselves. Hey hey I saved the world today etc.

You're right, but most people have no idea what goes on, everyone gives travellers stick for over breeding and but the WPCS who registers the ponies must know who is over breeding.
When I left school I worked on a small private stud, and every pony bred would have a ridden future, they bred about four ponies a year, and most of the stud owners I know now only breed that amount, and they are sold through word of FB, its very rare they are actively advertised.
In 2008-9, I think every sensible stud owner didn't recover their mares and expected to perhaps have to hang on to stock.

 

[chocolategirl]

You wouldn’t breed Welsh ponies specifically for slaughter. There are meat breeds- big draft horses. You get paid per kg of meat, there is not much meat on section A!

It much meat in chickens or lambs either ?

 

[ester]

there is compared to your garden chicken/sheep

 

[Pedantic]

This is where my brain and heart fall out with each other.
I know its the only way but it makes me so sad.
The other morning when i was refuelling I saw a cattle wagon. I tried to force myself not to look but in the end I made eye contact. It makes me so sad. Still not sad enough to go vegetarian though.

Me too, I wont be sorry when I leave this planet, fed up of being part of the problem and the Cancer of this planet.

 

[Palindrome]

We have no idea the full reason these weanlings ended up there. On the continent it's totally accepted that the bottom % of whatever you breed will go to the abattoir. The ones with wonky limbs which didn’t come right with some intervention, the ones with big overbites, the ones with a retained testicle that requires either running on or an expensive operation and countless other reasons, including just not being quality enough to fit the reputation of what you sell. Breeding is a lottery.
People can not sit behind their screens and say 'but why not give it away, my sister's friend's cousin would have had it' because that's how ponies fall into hard times.

FWIW I'm at that abattoir reasonably regularly but don’t often see weanlings. I haven’t been since Covid so perhaps things have changed.

Everything gets tooted about of what happens on the continent. Most young horses at the abattoir are racehorses or horses bred for meat. Foals cannot be legally slaughtered and reputable breeders don't send their horses to the abattoir.

 

[Frumpoon]

Well, we don't know that, do we? For whatever reason, there was not a buyer for these particular colts and the breeders decided to do right by them. I would err on the side of commending them, not chastisement. I'd reserve that for the people who abandon their unwanted animals or simply fail to take care of them at all.

Delivering healthy, planned, well bred young stock to an abattoir is so far from doing right by them that I wonder if you and I are of the same species

 

[Cortez]

Delivering healthy, planned, well bred young stock to an abattoir is so far from doing right by them that I wonder if you and I are of the same species

They were unsaleable, which I am sure was not what was planned, but it is what happened. What do you suggest they should have done with them? And please don't say keep them and sell them trained and ridden; I'm sure if that was a viable option they would have done just that. What would be your solution?

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Delivering healthy, planned, well bred young stock to an abattoir is so far from doing right by them that I wonder if you and I are of the same species

Well what do you suggest when there is nobody wanting them ? (not until they find they were despatched, then a zillion homes were offered).

I call it responsible if they cannot be kept on.
They have sold copious animals since the mother passed away early this year, to cut numbers to a manageable amount.

 

[Frumpoon]

They didn’t meet their reserve at one auction

They should have run them on, this stud has their own land and other means of income....it’s just not good enough.....

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Why run them on? If they weren't wanted as weanlings what would make people buy them as yearlings? 2yos? 3yos? 4yos? If they were good enough to reproduce they would either have been kept and run on then used sold as a stallion or they would have been snapped up. It would cost them more to geld them than they are worth and again who would then buy a gelding youngster? There is still a huge stigma in native pony showing of geldings being geldings because they weren't good enough to be stallions. When actually I find a lot of show ring stallions are not good enough to be bred from and should have been gelded but a stallion has more presence. But that's a totally different arguement all together.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

They didn’t meet their reserve at one auction

They should have run them on, this stud has their own land and other means of income....it’s just not good enough.....

You know that for a fact?
Quite honestly, you sound very embittered, particularly in the applauding of the vilification of people you dont know, who are doing nothing illegal, that you disagree with.

 

[Cortez]

They didn’t meet their reserve at one auction

They should have run them on, this stud has their own land and other means of income....it’s just not good enough.....

I'm afraid it's not up to you to decide what people do with their stock; there are a million reasons why it was not possible for them to keep the ponies, up to and including they just plain didn't wish to. I would far, far rather see people taking responsibility for their animals than neglecting them. Some of the most awful rescues I've been involved in have been from "animal lovers" who decided they loved their horses/dogs/cats too much to put them down, but then either couldn't be arsed to or didn't have the resources to look after them properly.

 

[Frumpoon]

I'm afraid it's not up to you to decide what people do with their stock; there are a million reasons why it was not possible for them to keep the ponies, up to and including they just plain didn't wish to. I would far, far rather see people taking responsibility for their animals than neglecting them. Some of the most awful rescues I've been involved in have been from "animal lovers" who decided they loved their horses/dogs/cats too much to put them down, but then either couldn't be arsed to or didn't have the resources to look after them properly.

Likewise it’s not up to you what I post

 

[Palindrome]

They were unsaleable, which I am sure was not what was planned, but it is what happened. What do you suggest they should have done with them? And please don't say keep them and sell them trained and ridden; I'm sure if that was a viable option they would have done just that. What would be your solution?

Horses can take a while to sell. They should have included that in their plans. All the breeders I know geld their colts and just wait for them to be sold (or do a dispersal sale if needed).

Why run them on? If they weren't wanted as weanlings what would make people buy them as yearlings? 2yos? 3yos? 4yos? If they were good enough to reproduce they would either have been kept and run on then used sold as a stallion or they would have been snapped up. It would cost them more to geld them than they are worth and again who would then buy a gelding youngster? There is still a huge stigma in native pony showing of geldings being geldings because they weren't good enough to be stallions. When actually I find a lot of show ring stallions are not good enough to be bred from and should have been gelded but a stallion has more presence. But that's a totally different arguement all together.

They could be sold to riding schools at 3-4 yrs old if they are not of show quality.

 

[Frumpoon]

You know that for a fact?
Quite honestly, you sound very embittered, particularly in the applauding of the vilification of people you dont know, who are doing nothing illegal, that you disagree with.

Embittered, sad, very sad in fact, disappointed...lots of words could apply to me right now

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Embittered, sad, very sad in fact, disappointed...lots of words could apply to me right now

Step away from the keyboard for a bit then, nothing you are ranting about is really helpful to anyone.

 

[Cortez]

Likewise it’s not up to you what I post

Oh, I'm delighted for you to post, but don't expect everybody to agree with you - just as I'm not expecting everybody to agree with me. See, it's a discussion forum - everyone gets to have a whole opinion to themselves (or very often, more than one...).

 

[Frumpoon]

Step away from the keyboard for a bit then, nothing you are ranting about is really helpful to anyone.

er it’s a discussion...you cant really tell me what to do

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Horses can take a while to sell. They should have included that in their plans. All the breeders I know geld their colts and just wait for them to be sold (or do a dispersal sale if needed).

They could be sold to riding schools at 3-4 yrs old if they are not of show quality.

The active partner stud owner dying early in the year, covid preventing people turning up to see stock, sales cancelled. Nobody had a crystal ball.
Not everyone has the finances to keep them for 4 more years and include backing and working them.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

er it’s a discussion...you cant really tell me what to do

I appreciate that, but as you were stamping your feet, I thought I'd reply in similar vein ?

 

[Cortez]

Horses can take a while to sell. They should have included that in their plans. All the breeders I know geld their colts and just wait for them to be sold (or do a dispersal sale if needed).


They could be sold to riding schools at 3-4 yrs old if they are not of show quality.

You do know that dispersal sales often result in horses going to slaughter, don't you? A lot of your "solutions" are just pie in the sky, "could", "should".....not reality I'm afraid.

 

[Frumpoon]

The active partner stud owner dying early in the year, covid preventing people turning up to see stock, sales cancelled. Nobody had a crystal ball.
Not everyone has the finances to keep them for 4 more years and include backing and working them.

They have a lot of their own land and WPCS went online

 

[Equi]

According to Facebook (so not the best source) they were all parrot mouth. Which could explain why they didn’t and we’re unlikely to ever sell in a showing based industry.

 

[conniegirl]

Horses can take a while to sell. They should have included that in their plans. All the breeders I know geld their colts and just wait for them to be sold (or do a dispersal sale if needed).


They could be sold to riding schools at 3-4 yrs old if they are not of show quality.

you do realise that most riding schools have very little use for a 3 yr old 12hh pony? Most want 8 or 9 yrs old and minimum of 12.2hh

 

[Cortez]

They have a lot of their own land and WPCS went online

I have a lot of my own land. I am in the process of reducing my horses as I have no desire to keep slogging through winters; it is not compulsory to own animals you have not the resources to look after.

[Content removed]

...and you're neither mature enough nor polite enough to engage in a discussion with.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

[Content removed]you just aren’t bright enough to argue with

Would you mind keeping personal insults to yourself?
You may be put out that breeders are not doing what you want, but there is absolutely no need to get personal. Please try stepping away from the keyboard for a while eh?

 

[Frumpoon]

Would you mind keeping personal insults to yourself?
You may be put out that breeders are not doing what you want, but there is absolutely no need to get personal. Please try stepping away from the keyboard for a while eh?

oh you can call me names though yes?

 

[conniegirl]

[Content removed]

She isn’t the one that has resorted to angry and offensive personal insults

 

[Frumpoon]

She isn’t the one that has resorted to angry and offensive personal insults

Calling me embittered????