Roasted Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
please elaborate? Reality and practicality seldom go hand in hand with CD. Turns out my post was actually fairly popular.
Facebook footage of welsh stud delivering youngstock to abattoir
- Thread starter Frumpoon
- Start date
please elaborate? Reality and practicality seldom go hand in hand with CD. Turns out my post was actually fairly popular.
chaps89
Well-Known Member
This.
A well known Welsh stud rents the field opposite mine. All the mares are semi-feral, arrive loose in a cattle trailer and get herded in to leave. 1 this summer had the most horrendous blistering on her face. They're not checked, feet aren't done and the field is full of ragwort.
It's a well known stud and I'm definitley naive as I was stunned at how they're kept!
I imagine the costs in keeping them this way can't be anything but nominal, so the price they make from those they sell probably offsets those they don't somewhat.
It's sad but there are worse alternatives.
honetpot
Well-Known Member
They are playing a numbers game. They put how many in foal, pick the best and sell them as foals as show prospect, usually pretty colours, even markings etc for a premium price, some for an average price, then cull the rest. Keeping a native mare there is usually little cost, they use their own stallion, so if the majority are sold as foals, straight from the mare there is no keep to pay for them.
The Brightwells sale lifted the rock on this when some Criccieth ponies were presented in appealing condition but still the WPCS left the owner on the judges register. He is reported to have owned four hundred ponies, as he was trying to sell nearly a hundred through Brightwells, that probabely a good estimate.
https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/dartmoor-pony-breeder-david-hinde-banned-478732
Muddywellies
Well-Known Member
Economics. Not all equines are pets, with lovely green pasture, warm stables, and lots of hugs and cuddles. Many are assets and when surplus to requirements, are slaughtered for meat money (no different to chickens, pigs, sheep etc etc) . Just the way it is, and as others have mentioned, there are worse places a pony can end up. It's quite expensive having them PTS at home and then disposed of unfortunately.
Floofball
Well-Known Member
Yes it is a word as is speciesism
‘...a prejudice or bias in favour of the interests of members of one's own species and against those of members of other species.’
Peter Singer, Animal Liberation, 1975
It is found throughout nature and can also be used as a term for humans that project different ethical or moral codes onto animals that have a higher emotional value to them. ?
WelshD
Well-Known Member
I'm really struggling with this one, I swing from one side to the other as the arguments and 'information' come forth and the sight of those youngsters obligingly going up that ramp will stay with me for some time.
I'm surprised though that this has caused such a reaction, I am sure this practice is far from uncommon and in fact I bet there are studs for many breeds where foals are disposed off quietly and unofficially within days of being born for reasons that range from conformation issues to simply not having the right markings
If these had been sold cheaply the stud would have been criticised when no doubt one ended up down on luck in someone's shed or somewhere, its a horrible thing to say but they have controlled every aspect of that pony's life including seeing that they are not passed around for a tenner. Yes cheap ponies often land on their feet but there are a great many who don't and most livery yards will not take colts.
Its a huge assumption to assume the stud will breed as many next year, the mother in the family has passed away and in many of these old fashioned studs the older generation can be the driving force when it comes to breeding large numbers. Lack of help or money may have led to ponies not being run on over winter.
If these have been advertised from two months old then the breeders have made efforts to sell them, many foals sell when still in the womb and the best examples are often snapped up as soon as they hit the ground.
I think the target market must take some blame here - looking at the lead rein/first ridden groups on facebook everyone seems to want the perfect paragon pony but very few are willing to make one/don't want a novice/don't have the time or knowhow - someone out there has to nurture these ponies from weanlings after all.
I see adverts wanting ponies but only those with four even white socks or only dapple greys/no greys/no white etc etc - you only have to take note of those in the show ring to wonder whether it just so happens that ponies with one or three white socks just happen to be less of a good example or less talented as for sure they are underrepresented. Many of the people I've seen complaining about the loss of these ponies are people that may have snapped up that chestnut if he had four white stockings not three. People are fickle.
I'm surprised though that this has caused such a reaction, I am sure this practice is far from uncommon and in fact I bet there are studs for many breeds where foals are disposed off quietly and unofficially within days of being born for reasons that range from conformation issues to simply not having the right markings
If these had been sold cheaply the stud would have been criticised when no doubt one ended up down on luck in someone's shed or somewhere, its a horrible thing to say but they have controlled every aspect of that pony's life including seeing that they are not passed around for a tenner. Yes cheap ponies often land on their feet but there are a great many who don't and most livery yards will not take colts.
Its a huge assumption to assume the stud will breed as many next year, the mother in the family has passed away and in many of these old fashioned studs the older generation can be the driving force when it comes to breeding large numbers. Lack of help or money may have led to ponies not being run on over winter.
If these have been advertised from two months old then the breeders have made efforts to sell them, many foals sell when still in the womb and the best examples are often snapped up as soon as they hit the ground.
I think the target market must take some blame here - looking at the lead rein/first ridden groups on facebook everyone seems to want the perfect paragon pony but very few are willing to make one/don't want a novice/don't have the time or knowhow - someone out there has to nurture these ponies from weanlings after all.
I see adverts wanting ponies but only those with four even white socks or only dapple greys/no greys/no white etc etc - you only have to take note of those in the show ring to wonder whether it just so happens that ponies with one or three white socks just happen to be less of a good example or less talented as for sure they are underrepresented. Many of the people I've seen complaining about the loss of these ponies are people that may have snapped up that chestnut if he had four white stockings not three. People are fickle.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
To anyone who feels that they can help save an unwanted equine life, please do consider taking on a rehabilitated horse or pony from one of the reputable rescue charities. This will leave a space for another neglected near death equine to be taken in by knowledgable people.
This would do much more good than condoning this hysterical shame fest at healthy animals meeting a humane end.
I have fostered ponies twice before from the RSPCA. I carried on their good work til the ponies went on to be rehomed.
This would do much more good than condoning this hysterical shame fest at healthy animals meeting a humane end.
I have fostered ponies twice before from the RSPCA. I carried on their good work til the ponies went on to be rehomed.
Tizer88
New User
personally i think its not different to dog breeding, humans having babies. If you cant ensure you have the space, money or time to care for the life you are bringing into the world then dont do it,
Theyre not farmers breeding for meat to earn money. Theyre a stud (who usually are hobbyists ) if they dont have the space to run the foals on they should be banned by the breed society for irresponsible breeding.
the fact that people want good safe ponies is true, but as most of the people into welshies know, many studs breed from a stallion thats only proven to be able to run around a ring at high speed trotting - the mares are half feral and rarely have any "proven" life under their belt, they dpnt breed riding or driivng ponies truely, they breed to suit there own click of judges that again can sprint around a ring at high speed ..... this is not what the people want.
gone are the days of a a versatile welsh pony who can do a few jobs. We all buy native irish ponies now as kiddies all rounders because the welsh are too flightly to do the job .
the breeders need a long hard look at themselves
Cortez
Tough but Fair
I used to have a stud farm. On average we would put down two foals a year because they were not saleable, due to conformation problems usually. Breeders of stock (and horses ARE stock, not pets, if they are being commercially produced) need to be responsible for their excess. IMO the breeders were being circumspect in sending these unsaleable colts to slaughter. I've no idea if they have thought about their breeding plans going forward, but it would make sense to cut back in light of the current situation. Pony weanlings are no different to dairy bull calves or any other youngstock with no market.
dorsetladette
Well-Known Member
That's quite a sweeping statement. You only have to look at the lead rein and first ridden rings and (small working hunter classes) to see that the welsh A (and small B) still dominant there. So not all welsh ponies are bred as you suggest.
Ranyhyn
Well-Known Member
I have to agree here. Ive had a welsh a and a welsh b (currently) who are awesome allrounders as FYFR and FR ponies for my 8yo daughter.
Hallo2012
Well-Known Member
hoping to start a turning tide with mine, he is a B, (out of a mare who did the ridden job, by a RW winner)......already competing elem, schooling adv medium.
hoping he will prove he can perform and stay sound and sane and people will see he is worth the higher AI stud fee and isn't just a flash in the pan in hand winner
maggie62
Well-Known Member
I am aware of that.....but probably advertised for sale when weaned
Ranyhyn
Well-Known Member
hoping to start a turning tide with mine, he is a B, (out of a mare who did the ridden job, by a RW winner)......already competing elem, schooling adv medium.
hoping he will prove he can perform and stay sound and sane and people will see he is worth the higher AI stud fee and isn't just a flash in the pan in hand winner
Having seen your lad thats the kind of pony I'd be looking to put on our mare if we ever wanted to breed.
dorsetladette
Well-Known Member
They have been advertised since at least July (on the stud website) from what I can see. Probably earlier, this is the type of stud who would usually have a line of people wanting their stock to show next season, not a 2 bit place. They have ponies going all over Europe and as far as New Zealand.
I am not associated with them but have watched them through facebook and their names was good back in the 80's and 90's when my parents were breeding welsh ponies.
chocolategirl
Well-Known Member
I didn’t know how many were involved, I couldn’t bear to watch, but I still maintain some are breeding specifically for slaughter ?
chocolategirl
Well-Known Member
I was merely pointing out that to be an animal lover, but still eat meat is called cognitive dissonance, of which I’m guilty?
Wasn’t having a go ffs?
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Why the ??
HollyWoozle
Well-Known Member
I wanted to contribute to this thread and wasn't sure how to word my thoughts, but this post sums them up perfectly.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
I highly doubt it; there's no margin at all in that. Horses are bred for meat in France; every other farm animal is also bred for meat.
TheMule
Well-Known Member
You wouldn’t breed Welsh ponies specifically for slaughter. There are meat breeds- big draft horses. You get paid per kg of meat, there is not much meat on section A!
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
especially not a weanling, that really is a bad business plan
ihatework
Well-Known Member
especially not a weanling, that really is a bad business plan
New covid business
Spit roast Welsh A, suitable for groups of 6 who have piled on the lockdown pounds?! ?
Tarragon
Well-Known Member
I have just, coincidently, seen the footage on FB.
I have always said that lambs have the best life of all farm animals as they allowed to stay with mum, generally in large spaces, and can play with their friends. They have a short but very natural life.
I feel the same way about these 3 ponies. They would have lived out in their herd with their dam and played and they looked well cared for and healthy. I would far rather this short life to one where their future is not certain and a possible life of mistreatment and hardship, which I imagine is the motivation for the stud to deal with them in this way.
This is not in the same league as any animal bred for meat in appalling conditions who have a miserable life and a miserable end.
I have always said that lambs have the best life of all farm animals as they allowed to stay with mum, generally in large spaces, and can play with their friends. They have a short but very natural life.
I feel the same way about these 3 ponies. They would have lived out in their herd with their dam and played and they looked well cared for and healthy. I would far rather this short life to one where their future is not certain and a possible life of mistreatment and hardship, which I imagine is the motivation for the stud to deal with them in this way.
This is not in the same league as any animal bred for meat in appalling conditions who have a miserable life and a miserable end.
Chinchilla
...
One is left wondering if those so up in arms over these foals also make sure to not buy battery farmed eggs and only purchase British-reared and slaughtered meat.
meleeka
Well-Known Member
Absolutely. I would not buy imported meat or eggs from battery hens. I’m not against breeding animals for meat in this country, if it’s done properly, but this isn’t what we are talking about here. Horses aren’t farmed for their meat because there’s no need for it. These people are breeding just because they can and so they can pick a few good ones and dispose of the rest. It’s really not the same as cows specifically bred for food.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Ah well, the video does tend to bring important salient information in order for informed discussion.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
Well, we don't know that, do we? For whatever reason, there was not a buyer for these particular colts and the breeders decided to do right by them. I would err on the side of commending them, not chastisement. I'd reserve that for the people who abandon their unwanted animals or simply fail to take care of them at all.
Hallo2012
Well-Known Member
PapaverFollis
Well-Known Member
All three ponies looked in really good condition and despite being a little confused about where they were they weren't distressed to my eye. They looked sweet and optimistic. Which of course makes it emotive to watch but logically it's actually a good thing. I love Welsh As and it does leave a heavy heart watching the video but I'm also fully surrounded by very cute calves all year here. And lambs in spring. And it's just the fate of individuals of the species that have hitched their evolutionary wagon to ours... in that sense these species are very successful, even if life is short for a percentage of the individuals. They could be out there competing with our palm oil farms instead.
I don't see any benefit in having a social media witch hunt of an individual stud farm that has given those youngsters a short but happy life and secured their future. I can't imagine they are overjoyed at sending them for slaughter themselves. If they were offered for sale initially it's not like they are quietly disposing of the dross.
I'm sure there are wider issues to discuss re breeding/overbreeding etc but hounding individuals gets noone anywhere. Except making the people doing the hounding feel raight smug about themselves. Hey hey I saved the world today etc.
I don't see any benefit in having a social media witch hunt of an individual stud farm that has given those youngsters a short but happy life and secured their future. I can't imagine they are overjoyed at sending them for slaughter themselves. If they were offered for sale initially it's not like they are quietly disposing of the dross.
I'm sure there are wider issues to discuss re breeding/overbreeding etc but hounding individuals gets noone anywhere. Except making the people doing the hounding feel raight smug about themselves. Hey hey I saved the world today etc.