Facebook footage of welsh stud delivering youngstock to abattoir

[Wishfilly]

I sort of have a problem with the argument that slaughter is kinder than the alternative of ponies ending up as welfare cases- I accept it's a true argument, but I feel that it's possible to say both are unacceptable, and both could be reduced by not overbreeding.

It does sound like in this individual case, there are factors such as the death of the stud owner and obviously covid which may have led to an unusual situation. And I don't think a witch-hunt is the answer. In this stud's case it may be a one off in a very difficult situation, and it's worth erring on the side of compassion/caution.

But I'm also well aware how hill ponies are still indiscriminately bred on Dartmoor, and it sounds like the situation in Wales is not dissimilar, except showing and desire for particular markings etc come into it as well. Overbreeding contributes to welfare issues- maybe not in the case of these specific ponies, but in the case of some dams and foals and the adult horses those foals grow up to be. Even if some breeders are sending their unwanted stock to abattoirs they're still contributing to the culture that it's ok to breed a large number of ponies and just sell the best.

I do accept it's hypocritical to object to this and still eat dairy, but I don't think it's ok to look at something and say it must be ok because there are worse alternatives. It's a bit idealistic, but I sort of want the best life possible for every foal that's born, and not the least worst outcome. I'm not naive to the realities of comercial breeding, so I'm not shocked by this, but I don't like that it goes on.

I do also think that line breeding can have a lot to answer for, in terms of sub-standard foals being produced.

 

[scats]

If anyone wants to buy a tiny welsh pony there is anther sale on the 30th. Or is that perpetuating the cycle?

I’m keeping an eye out for a little ‘un at the moment. Partly as a companion and partly as a riding pony for my honorary nephew and niece.

 

[shirl62]

yes i agree they should have run them on, the costs would have been small, and you are right its not good enough

i still have the catalogue from the coed coch dispersal sale, somewhere, some of those ponies were the best ever,


i think it is a mean, selfish and cruel thing to put down a heathy foal


a lady i knew once bought some foals that were going to slaughter, they were beautiful, i can see them now lovely healthy full of life, the sort i would have died for as kid, its why i feel strongly about this

i think if you put the mare in foal you should take responsibility to give the foals the chance to attain adulthood and become the best they can

and its true i don`t know all the circumstances, but the meanness of it is what grates, what sort of person can do things like that

Agree totally with this. I feel so sad that their little live

My feelings exactly...I maybe a sentimental old fool but hey that's the way I am and hate to see those little babies discarded like trash...I am in bits over this...

 

[laura_nash]

Not sure how this is different from a cow. Arguably a horse is more intelligent but people really anthromorphasize.

I also don't get the arguments to why this is different from a cow. From reading this thread one of those was "they are only doing it as a hobby", well plenty of people farm cows as a hobby / additional source of income alongside a full-time job around here (including me). Another was "they are being bred for pets rather than meat", well I don't get why that is so different as after all we don't need to eat beef to survive.

I would very definitely argue about a horse being more intelligent than a cow. I suspect my cows are just as intelligent as my horse, and they certainly have just as much individual character. Anyone who has been around tame cows or chickens has to wonder why it is okay to take them to slaughter but different for horses.

Its fair enough for a "vegan activist" to get up in arms about this incident, they are presumably equally distressed about farming, but all these people piling on who happily drink commercially produced milk where the male calves are removed and killed at a day old are total hypocrites IMO.

 

[Daughter of the Moor]

I am definitely in the naïve camp then if this is an every year occurrence for some studs. I'm surprised it makes economic sense to keep the mare and provide even basic care through pregnancy just to get meat money if they are colts.
It's not a tragedy and it certainly isn't the worst that could happen - it just seems all a little pointless. If they couldn't sell them this year - when horses are in such demand, then why breed at all?

it costs nothing to keep an in foal mare out on the hill or other extensive grazing. The mares usually foal naturally without human intervention

 

[jess05]

Why do people keep quoting EXCESS STOCK? Yes in the wild we have no power to control the breeding, but in a controlled stud farm we do. Why carry on breeding if you cannot afford to run the foals on until they are sold? I have heard a lot of mixed reports regarding this incident, but One thing I am certain of is that it could of been avoided with a better outcome for these colts.

 

[Dave's Mam]

Why do people keep quoting EXCESS STOCK? Yes in the wild we have no power to control the breeding, but in a controlled stud farm we do. Why carry on breeding if you cannot afford to run the foals on until they are sold? I have heard a lot of mixed reports regarding this incident, but One thing I am certain of is that it could of been avoided with a better outcome for these colts.

When these colts were conceived, we didn't have Coronavirus & the stud had not lost a key member. This year's Planning is out the window.

 

[jess05]

When these colts were conceived, we didn't have Coronavirus & the stud had not lost a key member. This year's Planning is out the window.

I appreciate your reply, so I assume that no more mares have been covered this year due to the ongoing Covid issue?

 

[Dave's Mam]

I appreciate your reply, so I assume that no more mares have been covered this year due to the ongoing Covid issue?

I am not connected to the stud, so how would I know? I am making a general point.

 

[jess05]

I am not connected to the stud, so how would I know? I am making a general point.

Fair point Dave's Mam, but I am just making my own personal opinion which we are all entitled to do.

 

[Gingerwitch]

It is different though because those lambs are bred for meat. These colts have been sent for slaughter because the breeder didn’t want colts and there wasn’t a market for them.

So do lambs and these colts know the difference and dont lambs have any sense of fear and pain or us it only foals. Lastly when you have hand reared a lamb is this different to a field reared lamb and how would you tell at the slaughter house ?

 

[TPO]

I really despair at times.

Here's a business undoubtedly affected by Covid, who have suffered a bereavement and who have THREE horses that didnt sell. There is a possibility that these three had conformation issues that might also have affected their sales and possibly even their mature lives.

The stud did a responsible thing and ensured that they know where the ponies ended up and avoided the risk of them being passed around or abandoned.

There are no prizes for keeping animals going at all costs (to the animals and humans). There are real horror stories, unlike this, of people selling cheaply/gifting horses and it being a downward spiral for the poor animal. There are animals in actual pain who are posted about still being kept going or ridden. That apparently is ok?

Yet people think it's ok to harrass, bully, slander and libel a stud out of business. The colts appeared well cared for, they have produced quality ponies previously, theyve suffered a bereavement and we are in the midst of a global pandemic.

Some perspective is called for.

I'm going to bet that there are very, very few on this thread who are totally plant based, use no animal materials at all and are riding solely in synthetic tack so people in glass houses.

There are people on this thread very familiar with the abattoir and have confirmed it's high standard of care and good practices.

Although I'm sure everyone with so many negative things to say about the owners of the stud are too busy donating a lot of their time and money to sancturies and rescues to do much else, oh no wait...

 

[ycbm]

So do lambs and these colts know the difference and dont lambs have any sense of fear and pain or us it only foals. Lastly when you have hand reared a lamb is this different to a field reared lamb and how would you tell at the slaughter house ?

The difference is that there is no alternative for the lambs. If they weren't killed that way they would never be born.

There was an alternative for those ponies that would have cost a couple of hundred pounds. Less if they had machinery available to dig a hole. I have no idea whether the stud could have paid that or not, maybe they just don't have it.

I do, by the by, think there is a world of difference taking an adult horse which is used to travelling and being places to an abattoir to wait its turn quietly in a side pen.





PS there is no excuse for the trial by social media.

 

[tda]

I really despair at times.

Here's a business undoubtedly affected by Covid, who have suffered a bereavement and who have THREE horses that didnt sell. There is a possibility that these three had conformation issues that might also have affected their sales and possibly even their mature lives.

The stud did a responsible thing and ensured that they know where the ponies ended up and avoided the risk of them being passed around or abandoned.

There are no prizes for keeping animals going at all costs (to the animals and humans). There are real horror stories, unlike this, of people selling cheaply/gifting horses and it being a downward spiral for the poor animal. There are animals in actual pain who are posted about still being kept going or ridden. That apparently is ok?

Yet people think it's ok to harrass, bully, slander and libel a stud out of business. The colts appeared well cared for, they have produced quality ponies previously, theyve suffered a bereavement and we are in the midst of a global pandemic.

Some perspective is called for.

I'm going to bet that there are very, very few on this thread who are totally plant based, use no animal materials at all and are riding solely in synthetic tack so people in glass houses.

There are people on this thread very familiar with the abattoir and have confirmed it's high standard of care and good practices.

Although I'm sure everyone with so many negative things to say about the owners of the stud are too busy donating a lot of their time and money to sancturies and rescues to do much else, oh no wait...

 

[teddypops]

So do lambs and these colts know the difference and dont lambs have any sense of fear and pain or us it only foals. Lastly when you have hand reared a lamb is this different to a field reared lamb and how would you tell at the slaughter house ?

That’s not the point I was making. The lambs are born to be slaughtered for meat. There is a market for this. They would not have been born otherwise. They don’t have another use. These ponies were intentionally bred with the HOPE that there was someone willing to buy them or they were the next superstar. They were not bred for meat. Turns out no one wanted them and the owners took them for slaughter. There are other options for ponies.

 

[babymare]

I really despair at times.

Here's a business undoubtedly affected by Covid, who have suffered a bereavement and who have THREE horses that didnt sell. There is a possibility that these three had conformation issues that might also have affected their sales and possibly even their mature lives.

The stud did a responsible thing and ensured that they know where the ponies ended up and avoided the risk of them being passed around or abandoned.

There are no prizes for keeping animals going at all costs (to the animals and humans). There are real horror stories, unlike this, of people selling cheaply/gifting horses and it being a downward spiral for the poor animal. There are animals in actual pain who are posted about still being kept going or ridden. That apparently is ok?

Yet people think it's ok to harrass, bully, slander and libel a stud out of business. The colts appeared well cared for, they have produced quality ponies previously, theyve suffered a bereavement and we are in the midst of a global pandemic.

Some perspective is called for.

I'm going to bet that there are very, very few on this thread who are totally plant based, use no animal materials at all and are riding solely in synthetic tack so people in glass houses.

There are people on this thread very familiar with the abattoir and have confirmed it's high standard of care and good practices.

Although I'm sure everyone with so many negative things to say about the owners of the stud are too busy donating a lot of their time and money to sancturies and rescues to do much else, oh no wait...

Well said 100%. The energy used in the hysteria on social media would be better used in generating funds for charities fighting true horrific cruelty and neglect because boy there are lots of poor souls out there suffering. But everyone loves a "crusade" don't they!

 

[Widgeon]

erm.... even more likely to be out of budget I'd have thought....?

You should go anyway....

 

[milliepops]

You should go anyway....

??? no no no no

 

[Widgeon]

??? no no no no

oh shhh....just start another thread and along you go. We'll all be waiting to see what happens

 

[stormox]

Its my bet that this thread is so biased towards 'no they shouldn't have been killed' because of the venom and hate shown by the 'they should have run them on/sold them/ given to charity brigade.
A lot of sensible professional horsey farming type people don't want to be involved in a slagging match.

 

[AmyMay]

Its my bet that this thread is so biased towards 'no they shouldn't have been killed' because of the venom and hate shown by the 'they should have run them on/sold them/ given to charity brigade.
A lot of sensible horsey farming type people don't want to be involved in a slagging match.

I’m not sure that’s the case at all (perhaps with the odd exception).

 

[Goldenstar]

Its my bet that this thread is so biased towards 'no they shouldn't have been killed' because of the venom and hate shown by the 'they should have run them on/sold them/ given to charity brigade.
A lot of sensible horsey farming type people don't want to be involved in a slagging match.

Have you read the thread I don’t think you can have done .

 

[teddypops]

Its my bet that this thread is so biased towards 'no they shouldn't have been killed' because of the venom and hate shown by the 'they should have run them on/sold them/ given to charity brigade.
A lot of sensible horsey farming type people don't want to be involved in a slagging match.

I don’t think this thread is biased. There is a mixture of views on here.

 

[Equine_Dream]

I don't think its the fact that these colts were pts is what has got so many people upset. It's how these poor babies met their end that most disagree with. As again I think ymcb said above, there is a vast difference between transporting adult horses that are used to being handled and travelled. The colts appeared unhandled and certainly not used to travelling. Why put them through the stress of being transported to a strange place only to be killed when again, this could have happened at home?
My local hunt charges £180 to pts and dispatch the body. I understand the argument that the stud might not have the money but then I would question their ability to care for the remaining ponies? If £600 would bankrupt them, then how would they afford an unforseen vet bill?

 

[TPO]

I cant speak on behalf of stormox but my take was that they meant in general not just this thread. FB is certainly overrun with one side more than the other.

I'm actually really worried about the stud owners and associates. I doubt a trip to the abattoir is a fun day out for them, they were harassed there at already a difficult time, theyve been hounded and every scrap of internet information about them and their horses interrogated. Their names and addresses are out there, theyve had a bereavement and they are likely to be in a bad position next year in regards to selling because of the vile behaviour of these people.

 

[AmyMay]

My local hunt charges £180 to pts and dispatch the body. I understand the argument that the stud might not have the money but then I would question their ability to care for the remaining ponies? If £600 would bankrupt them, then how would they afford an unforseen vet bill?

But of course in this instance the hunt may not have dispatched them as they were seemingly under six months old.

 

[TPO]

I don't think its the fact that these colts were pts is what has got so many people upset. It's how these poor babies met their end that most disagree with. As again I think ymcb said above, there is a vast difference between transporting adult horses that are used to being handled and travelled. The colts appeared unhandled and certainly not used to travelling. Why put them through the stress of being transported to a strange place only to be killed when again, this could have happened at home?
My local hunt charges £180 to pts and dispatch the body. I understand the argument that the stud might not have the money but then I would question their ability to care for the remaining ponies? If £600 would bankrupt them, then how would they afford an unforseen vet bill?

"Poor babies"; no, colts fortunate to escape the downward spiral that awaits many who don't sell.

Did you watch the video? Where were the stress signs? Unsure certainly but not worried or stressed. All three walked in calmly.

How do you know they were unhandled and not used to travelling? You're making assumptions and using them to hang someone with.

"How they met their end"; at a professional establishment with someone skilled at what they do in an environment especially built for this exact thing? There are laws and legislation in place to ensure this is done correctly with animal welfare at the fore.

£600 may not be much to you but there are people in all walks of life struggling right now because of the devastating financial impact that covid had caused. They wont have made money taking the colts there but it might just have saved them in other ways.

There are undoubtedly other horses still at the stud and business overheads.

Rescues are bursting at the seams. I dont see an influx of threads about all these people taking on rescue horses at the same volume they are decrying a sensible option with unsellable ponies.

 

[stormox]

The way they went to the abbatoir- whats the difference there than a foal being bought at a sale and transported off without mum as happens to thousands of foals in October? These 3 at least had each other.

 

[Equine_Dream]

But of course in this instance the hunt may not have dispatched them as they were seemingly under six months old.

Good point but then why not turn them out for a month or two? They couldn't have been far off 6 months surely as they had obviously been weaned? If they are a great deal younger than 6 months then that is a different matter altogether!

 

[luckyoldme]

So do lambs and these colts know the difference and dont lambs have any sense of fear and pain or us it only foals. Lastly when you have hand reared a lamb is this different to a field reared lamb and how would you tell at the slaughter house ?

I know its not directed at me but I absolutely get the point you are making.
I suppose the slaughter at the end of a lambs short life is a necessary evil. Its horrible but thats what they have been bred for..theres a reason.
The reason for breeding those horses was to find one that the owner considered perfect..and to discard the leftovers that didnt meet their criteria..it seems so pointless.