Facebook footage of welsh stud delivering youngstock to abattoir

TPO said:
"Poor babies"; no, colts fortunate to escape the downward spiral that awaits many who don't sell.

Did you watch the video? Where were the stress signs? Unsure certainly but not worried or stressed. All three walked in calmly.

How do you know they were unhandled and not used to travelling? You're making assumptions and using them to hang someone with.

"How they met their end"; at a professional establishment with someone skilled at what they do in an environment especially built for this exact thing? There are laws and legislation in place to ensure this is done correctly with animal welfare at the fore.

£600 may not be much to you but there are people in all walks of life struggling right now because of the devastating financial impact that covid had caused. They wont have made money taking the colts there but it might just have saved them in other ways.

There are undoubtedly other horses still at the stud and business overheads.

Rescues are bursting at the seams. I dont see an influx of threads about all these people taking on rescue horses at the same volume they are decrying a sensible option with unsellable ponies.
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Please don't attempt to tell me what words I am or am not permitted to use. I am entitled to my opinion just as you are.

Yes I did watch the video thank you. I assume they were unhandled as none were wearing headcollers and were not lead off the trailer. Perhaps I am wrong but then if they are handled then having the knackerman shoot them at home would have been even easier?

I'm sorry but I stand by my view that if they could not afford a few hundred pounds to have the foals pts at home then how will they afford to care for the rest of their stock? Let's hope they don't have any unexpected vets bills/increase in feed prices or any unexpected bills that go hand in hand with having horses.
 
While there is a difference in intent here, I feel as though some may use that as a way to justify the slaughtering of some animals. It's more acceptable to slaughter the lamb that was produced for human consumption vs. the foals that were bred for human companionship. I get it, but at the same time appreciate that circumstances change and that we don't have all of the details here. It appears, from the outside that there were other options, and I would like to know why the stud chose this method, but I'm not entitled to know.

I don't think it's more "ok" to slaughter a lamb raised with the purpose of being eaten. I think that's sort of a cheap way out, and the main reason people are all up in arms is because of this emotional attachment we have to horses and how their status in society is a bit different.

I think it a bit weird that the breeder chose this approach, but again, I don't know their circumstances. Heck, other studs could do this too but have just gone unnoticed.
 
stormox said:
The way they went to the abbatoir- whats the difference there than a foal being bought at a sale and transported off without mum as happens to thousands of foals in October? These 3 at least had each other.
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Yes thousands of youngsters are transported everyday to sales and new homes. Unless you have a magical means of doing so, there is no alternative way to get them to new homes. However there were other options here that would not have required them to be transported to slaughter. It could have been done at home!
 
luckyoldme said:
The reason for breeding those horses was to find one that the owner considered perfect..and to discard the leftovers that didnt meet their criteria..it seems so pointless.
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The reason for breeding those ponies is (not necessarily in this order)
1) to improve the breed.
2) because the owners love the breed and run a stud farm which has to make a profit or it wouldnt be viable.
3) to breed healthy good looking stock that people would want to buy.
4) and possibly the stud is running as a business to make themselves an income as we all have to do. And businesses have to be a bit sensible and not waste money.
 
So when "poor" TV's get bred just so if a potential superstar tb needs a new mum, what on earth do you think happens to the foal ? Cause they certainly kill it - so is that justifiable ? IE it's bred just incase we need a foster mum and when we do we need the skin off her healthy foal so foster mum will raise the orphaned foal.
 
I really disagree with the sentiment that unless you are vegan/veggie then you are a hypocrite to comment on what goes to the slaughterhouse and what doesn’t.

We all have the right and the responsibility to demand better welfare standards and better ethical standards whether we are meat eaters or not. I’m a veggie but I do consume dairy, I am considering making the switch to plant based but also looking at more ethical alternatives. There are several dairy farms that will now leave the calves on the mother for up to two years. It means less milk production for them but you can purchase milk knowing no male calves have gone for veal. The males will likely still end up in the food chain but it is certainly a better alternative than traditional farming methods. Some even keep the bulls and find jobs for them. This type of farming has come about because there is demand for it.

There is little demand for small native ponies especially ones that may have conformational issues. I’m not saying what the stud has done by dropping them off at the abattoir was irresponsible. If they truly didn’t have the funds to run them on (and really funds required for that would be minimal the way these ponies are kept) and were facing financial hardship then fine. But we don’t really know and we don’t really know what their next steps have been.

If they have bred the same number of foals for next year from the same mares/stallion that have produced foals with potential conformational issues then they are the problem. Overbreeding is the same issue whether you’re breeding gypsy cobs, Welsh ponies or thoroughbreds for racing. The only difference is some end up dying in a field and some end up ferried miles to an abattoir. You can be mad about both outcomes whether ones more ‘humane’ or not. And I think it’s all a big pointless waste and shouldn’t be happening end of.
 
Equine_Dream said:
I don't think its the fact that these colts were pts is what has got so many people upset. It's how these poor babies met their end that most disagree with. As again I think ymcb said above, there is a vast difference between transporting adult horses that are used to being handled and travelled. The colts appeared unhandled and certainly not used to travelling. Why put them through the stress of being transported to a strange place only to be killed when again, this could have happened at home?
My local hunt charges £180 to pts and dispatch the body. I understand the argument that the stud might not have the money but then I would question their ability to care for the remaining ponies? If £600 would bankrupt them, then how would they afford an unforseen vet bill?
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My lambs have never left their mothers either when they are taken to market and subsequently slaughtered. Because they were bred for meat do these babies not feel stress?

Its not a question of wether the stud has the money to keep them its a business, if you spend money on sentiment you'll probably find you don't have a particularly fruitful animal business certainly. That £600 would probably feel two horses for the winter, so do they spend less at an abbatoir and save some to feed the rest of the herd or do they spend it all on sentiment?
 
On a tangent I am horrified to see the venom flying about on social media towards these breeders.

If by some stroke of luck, they or their connections read this thread I hope they will see that not only are many in support of them but quite often even those who oppose them, are able to do so in a sensible adult manner.

Please God dont let the crazies get to you - I am concerned this could lead to a real dent in their mental health or worse :(
 
I don't condone the trial by social media but I hope some lessons have been learnt. Over breeding is a real problem and I trust they will consider reducing the number of foals bred over the next few years if nothing changes. That's if anyone will buy a foal from them after all this....
 
TPO said:
How do you know they were unhandled and not used to travelling? You're making assumptions and using them to hang someone with.
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They were run loose out of the trailer up the ramp and herded into the abattoir by shutting a door on them. No assumptions here, just what I saw, unhandled young stock driven where people wanted them to go, not led.
.
 
ycbm said:
They were run loose out of the trailer up the ramp and herded into the abattoir by shutting a door on them. No assumptions here, just what I saw, unhandled young stock driven where people wanted them to go, not led.
.
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the same is true of the ?15 big older horses that came out of the big red lorry on the same day though, so I don't think the way they are handled there is necessarily that meaningful.
 
Equine_Dream said:
Please don't attempt to tell me what words I am or am not permitted to use. I am entitled to my opinion just as you are.

Yes I did watch the video thank you. I assume they were unhandled as none were wearing headcollers and were not lead off the trailer. Perhaps I am wrong but then if they are handled then having the knackerman shoot them at home would have been even easier?

I'm sorry but I stand by my view that if they could not afford a few hundred pounds to have the foals pts at home then how will they afford to care for the rest of their stock? Let's hope they don't have any unexpected vets bills/increase in feed prices or any unexpected bills that go hand in hand with having horses.
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this did occur to me, if they dispose of stock in this way is there provision money for the other animals, ?
 
teddypops said:
That’s not the point I was making. The lambs are born to be slaughtered for meat. There is a market for this. They would not have been born otherwise. They don’t have another use. These ponies were intentionally bred with the HOPE that there was someone willing to buy them or they were the next superstar. They were not bred for meat. Turns out no one wanted them and the owners took them for slaughter. There are other options for ponies.
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So are we saying that if a species is not for commercial food, toil or pleasure it has no worth ? This is so so sad. What an awful planet this would be if we annihilated anything that did not fit these groups.
 
tristar said:
but everyone`s planning went out the window, you should never have more stock than you have long term provision for, financially
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which they don't have, any more. Maybe this was always the long term provision? it's a plan of sorts even if it's not what everyone would choose.

if a stud breeds a number of foals each year it's always going to be a gamble to see what happens the next year. it might be covid, it might be something else, they possibly weren't also predicting a bereavement :(
 
tristar said:
but everyone`s planning went out the window, you should never have more stock than you have long term provision for, financially
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No one could have predicted Covid when these were conceived.

The stud have cut down on their stock, which is responsible.
 
Tiddlypom said:
No one could have predicted Covid when these were conceived.

The stud have cut down on their stock, which is responsible.
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no stud knows what is around the corner, when you put the stallion in with the mares the buck stops with you, breeding is a long term project, at lot longer than 15 months

breeding on a shoestring is the worse plan possible
 
How do you know they are or were operating on a shoestring? You don’t.

Maybe they had a very good business and income which Covid has put paid to, such as event management/weddings/anything. Maybe they have an idea of the numbers that they can keep properly over winter, and prefer to stick to that number.

But carry on with the uninformed criticism, hey, if it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling.
 
Tiddlypom said:
How do you know they are or were operating on a shoestring? You don’t.

Maybe they had a very good business and income which Covid has put paid to, such as event management/weddings/anything. Maybe they have an idea of the numbers that they can keep properly over winter, and prefer to stick to that number.

But carry on with the uninformed criticism, hey, if it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling.
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i was not talking about them, specifically just in general, if you care to read my post with your glasses on

if they, as you surmise had a good income previous to covid would it be beyond the realms of possibility that they would have had money put away, or do you know that they`` spent as they went``,



they should have thought about the numbers they could keep over the winter when they put the stallion in with the mares not when covid struck


you are equally uninformed in your critique of my post, i certainly have no warm fuzzy feeling about these foals, i am sick to my stomach of what is happening in the horse world

but hey, as you put it, use their deaths to put me down, i don`t care!!!!!
 
Gingerwitch said:
So when "poor" TV's get bred just so if a potential superstar tb needs a new mum, what on earth do you think happens to the foal ? Cause they certainly kill it - so is that justifiable ? IE it's bred just incase we need a foster mum and when we do we need the skin off her healthy foal so foster mum will raise the orphaned foal.
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I am not saying that TBs don't go to slaughter in large numbers because they do, but I can tell you it is actually pretty rare for TB weanlings to go to slaughter. 5/6/7/8yos who haven't made the grade yes, in pretty large numbers, but weanlings no- not in the way that e.g. dartmoor hill pony weanlings do.
 
I looked at the video and was sad. They looked like lovely foals to me.

But then, I also thought it was none of my business. The foals looked well cared for, healthy, well transported... I felt the video was intrusive.

I have said many times on here, when someone PTS a horse, I agree with them. Even for a professional, it cannot be a nice thing to have to do.

They were going about their business, dealing with their problem. I too would rather that than the ponies sold on to somewhere unsuitable.

What they were doing was legal, so I think naming and shaming was wrong.
 
Red-1 said:
I looked at the video and was sad. They looked like lovely foals to me.

But then, I also thought it was none of my business. The foals looked well cared for, healthy, well transported... I felt the video was intrusive.

I have said many times on here, when someone PTS a horse, I agree with them. Even for a professional, it cannot be a nice thing to have to do.

They were going about their business, dealing with their problem. I too would rather that than the ponies sold on to somewhere unsuitable.

What they were doing was legal, so I think naming and shaming was wrong.
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Yes. This pretty much says what I was trying to put this into words earlier but gave up!
 
luckyoldme said:
This is where my brain and heart fall out with each other.
I know its the only way but it makes me so sad.
The other morning when i was refuelling I saw a cattle wagon. I tried to force myself not to look but in the end I made eye contact. It makes me so sad. Still not sad enough to go vegetarian though.
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I am in this boat with you!
 
I think a lot of people don’t see that one can be very sad about an outcome but also not judge the decision.

I am sad that the foals died because they were unwanted. I understand that unwanted animals should be disposed of humanely, and that humane slaughter has prevented the fact that they are unwanted causing them to be abandoned or to suffer cruelty.

It is the ‘surplus to need’ that makes me sad, not so much the slaughter. It is also what makes me avoid products that come from large commercial producers, and why I like to buy from local farms/ friends instead. I don’t like to see animals being treated as waste, or slaughtered to be disposed of rather than slaughtered to produce meat.

The dairy farm next door takes their male calves to slaughter, usually at just under a year old. We get veal from them. It’s sad that the calves go but it’s part of the reason that they are kept in the first place, and it’s part of farming. It doesn’t feel like waste - the veal is used, and the calves are kept beautifully.

These colts feel unwanted and that doesn’t sit well with me. I cannot judge the choice to slaughter though, despite being sad about the result. We do not know the circumstances, nor the reasoning.

The saddest thing, I think, is that people think it’s acceptable to wish harm or physical violence on the owner, or that they genuinely believe that having the ponies in their garden is a solution. The naivety coupled with the sheer spite is very disturbing.
 
Interesting debate.

Firstly, although I won't be watching the video, i'm not surprised in the slightest. Some people are very naive.

I do hate the argument that theres worse fates, two wrongs dont make a right BUT I do find things I see regularly in the horse world far more sad.
Everyone has seen the horse in pain thats being smacked for being 'lazy', 'naughty', 'mareish' etc. etc. A life in pain now thats sad. A quick end not so much.

I dont eat meat and the reason for this is i have no idea the life that animal has had and i couldn't have it on my conscience to be supporting any form of cruelty. I cant see the difference between a cow and a pony.

We dont know the whole story here and i hate that social media has decided it was an easy decision for the stud. Oh and the people that are putting out the statement 'anything i sell or breed is welcome back at anytime'. Really(?) umm not convinced!

Anyway I really hope the owners of the stud are ok, i doubt this was an easy decision.

For me the jury is still out.
If for financial/other reasons the stud felt they had no choice then well done them for making the hard decision.

However, if the stud routinely sends the unwanted stock to slaughter, stands at hoys with the chosen stock then that doesn't sit well with me.
 
The colts feel unwanted? How do the colts even know if they are wanted or not?

Why do we attach these feelings and emotions to animals?

I find veal to be absolutely disgusting. It's ok for a young calf to be taken from its mother, put into a small pen/shelter so they cannot move to much and develop strong muscle in order for the meat to stay soft and tender. This is ok because of intent and that they were brought into this world to be slaughtered for meat. Right.

It is sad that the colts were slaughtered and I am not sure that I would support a breeder that did this. Also depends on the details I suppose, but I'm not about to put them on trial or anything.

I just can't get over the emotions that people only attach to certain animals. I know why this happens, but still.

Also sad what people have to tell themselves in order to justify their meat consumption. You eat it because you like it. That's really it. You're free to do so.
 
So will all those protesting be watching the online WPCS sales next week and buying up the wee colts that aren’t selling?

Time to put your money where your mouth is, after all people Are saying someone should have bought them. Or will it be the standard excuse of not funding overbreeding. Again leave open answers to my question of what to do with them now they are here. Just curious ??‍♀️??
 
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