Facebook - Horse shot by livery owner
- Thread starter rockysmum
- Start date
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
"There's fates worse than death for a horse" isn't that what we are constantly told on this forum? To send the horse to the auction for meat money goes against the grain of almost everyone here, doesn't it?
I don't know what it's like in the UK as I've been away too long now, but over here you cannot just go dumping a live horse in someone's garden, or tying it up at the end of their driveway. You would be prosecuted for doing that. When someone brings a horse onto your property you are responsible for that horse and all costs for it are laid on your doorstep if the owner does not pay. Is it like that in the UK too? YOs can't go around not tending to horses just because the owners don't pay them, and this can go on for months for some poor unlucky YOs. Once again, I reiterate I think he went overboard but then I can't understand anyone accepting the possible death of their horse if they don't pay as laid out in a livery contract.
I don't know what it's like in the UK as I've been away too long now, but over here you cannot just go dumping a live horse in someone's garden, or tying it up at the end of their driveway. You would be prosecuted for doing that. When someone brings a horse onto your property you are responsible for that horse and all costs for it are laid on your doorstep if the owner does not pay. Is it like that in the UK too? YOs can't go around not tending to horses just because the owners don't pay them, and this can go on for months for some poor unlucky YOs. Once again, I reiterate I think he went overboard but then I can't understand anyone accepting the possible death of their horse if they don't pay as laid out in a livery contract.
rockysmum
Well-Known Member
If you had quoted the full post, I meant that nothing she could have done would have deserved this horrific action. Not defending her on non payment at all
Wagtail
Horse servant
I keep thinking about this, and can only imagine it's because it is so darn cheap. £10 a week, I mean...
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Me too , when it's so cheap why not just pay , and on the YOers side why overreact so wildly over £30 .
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
I suspect, as others have said, that there is a whole load more to this story than what has been reported. It's a beautiful looking EC with all those arenas everywhere and post and rail fencing ... and all that for 10 a week. Seems very disproportionate, but then maybe it has to be that cheap to entice owners to sign such a contract!
touchstone
Well-Known Member
According to our local news the horse had been neglected and the loaner had hardly been to see to it and the action was taken by the yo to prevent future suffering. While he is responsible for the welfare of horses on his property I can understand, but not condone, his actions.
Moya_999
Well-Known Member
Right so the horse was only there 3 weeks right, well you would expect a new livery to be given a little more rope till they settled in or the owner go round to the house of the loaner or write a letter to the loaner which would be the best way to go and what most of us would do in this situation as someone else mentioned. Some of its equipment could have been sold off in payment of outstanding fees.
Regardless of the loaner non committal to pay the fees, the owners actions are way out there on the extreme measures actions.
Owner at his age should have a system in place where by anyone not paying there fees within a certain time would:
Be asked to leave immediately or within a set time if they did not pay ( and court would be involved )said would proceed that way to Redeem fees unpaid by padlock the stable until fees paid
Told to sell equipment or hand over equipment to the value and only then the horse released from the yard
Attempts should be made to find the actual owner to recoup fees.
How ever its dressed up this "so called livery Yard" took matters into their own hands without a thought for the animal or the owner. They acted totally inhumanly without a care in the world for doing it in a civilized fashion.
I hope he and this yard go down down down to the deepest dept of the world and rot in hell............................
Regardless of the loaner non committal to pay the fees, the owners actions are way out there on the extreme measures actions.
Owner at his age should have a system in place where by anyone not paying there fees within a certain time would:
Be asked to leave immediately or within a set time if they did not pay ( and court would be involved )said would proceed that way to Redeem fees unpaid by padlock the stable until fees paid
Told to sell equipment or hand over equipment to the value and only then the horse released from the yard
Attempts should be made to find the actual owner to recoup fees.
How ever its dressed up this "so called livery Yard" took matters into their own hands without a thought for the animal or the owner. They acted totally inhumanly without a care in the world for doing it in a civilized fashion.
I hope he and this yard go down down down to the deepest dept of the world and rot in hell............................
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stencilface
High upon a hillside
But how can a horse be neglected in 3 weeks? At grass livery in our current weather, you wouldn't even need to provide water for a horse to survive. And I'm pretty sure there are troughs, not water buckets in the fields, so that's out of the question. The pics of the dead horse did not looked starved either, so I would like to know they're definition of neglected. There are horses behind my house who's owners come up twice a week or less and there's a foal there that was born this year. And whilst that's not ideal, they have plenty of water and food (currently at least) that I'm not concerned.
It is cheap at the GG centre, even £10 to use their facilities for as long as you want is cheap, they have some Xc fences and a lovely grass gallops too. Maybe it will get sold to someone new now?
It is cheap at the GG centre, even £10 to use their facilities for as long as you want is cheap, they have some Xc fences and a lovely grass gallops too. Maybe it will get sold to someone new now?
Chavhorse
Well-Known Member
From reading everything yesterday it seems the "if you don't pay up I will shoot your horse" is not in the actual livery contract it is something that liveries are told verbally....but even so If a YO said this to me I would run for the hills
georgiegirl
Well-Known Member
As stated earlier do NOT be fooled by the pretty pictures on the establishments website which are very old and no where near a true representation of the facilities and what its like there. Decent establishments DONT house RSPCA horses with strangles and other diseases and also double up as a public access facility......basically putting horses at risk all over the area. As stated before the RSPCA have a VERY heavily vested interest in this property so any comments they make at all on this case should be taken with a pinch of salt. And its wholly inappropriate, biased and unprofessional that they are there reporting on the case at all.
I dont give two figs wether the girl paid or didnt pay or wether it was £30 or 30k. It still leaves absolutely NO excuse to destroy a healthy horse, load it in a tractor bucket and dump it over someones lawn hedge in the pitch black night.
This has got my blood absolutely boiling.
I dont give two figs wether the girl paid or didnt pay or wether it was £30 or 30k. It still leaves absolutely NO excuse to destroy a healthy horse, load it in a tractor bucket and dump it over someones lawn hedge in the pitch black night.
This has got my blood absolutely boiling.
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
It sounds like he did have a system in place though. Anyone not paying their fees within a certain time would:
Result in their horse being PTS.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
It was not the loaners horse .
The YOer had no right to do this .
YOers cannot shoot horses will nilly because they feel they might be suffering .
You can in some circumstances shoot a horse without permission but they owe me £30 and it had not got a rug on is not sufficient reason .
This horse had an owner who ought to have had the option to remove his or her property .
Amirah
Well-Known Member
I don't often comment on posts, but this has really upset me, she has a look of one of my lovely mares.
I am not convinced that he tried to load her, that just sounds like an excuse for killing her, claiming she had become dangerous etc (and don't ex-racehorses load well usually?) Did he try to load the three gypsy cobs he allegedly shot? I highly doubt it. Also, as she was a five minute walk away, he could have walked the poor mare round as others have said.
My feeling (and this is purely conjecture) is that she infuriated him on the phone with a refusal to pay, and being a vindictive nutjob he went straight off and took his anger out on the poor innocent mare. He dumped her in the loaner's garden to 'teach her a lesson', Godfather style. Just awful. The mare has been let down by several of our wonderful species that I am so often ashamed to be a member of.
I am puzzled as to why the livery owner has not been arrested, as he is in his seventies apparently and the men arrested were younger.
I don't know what sort of crime he will be held to account for, but I wonder if he'd have got off scott free (as with the cobs) if he'd not gone the extra spiteful mile and dumped her in the garden.
Sadly, he'd have been in more trouble for going round and giving the loaner a slap than for killing the innocent horse.
I just hope that the other liveries there have moved their horses.
I am not convinced that he tried to load her, that just sounds like an excuse for killing her, claiming she had become dangerous etc (and don't ex-racehorses load well usually?) Did he try to load the three gypsy cobs he allegedly shot? I highly doubt it. Also, as she was a five minute walk away, he could have walked the poor mare round as others have said.
My feeling (and this is purely conjecture) is that she infuriated him on the phone with a refusal to pay, and being a vindictive nutjob he went straight off and took his anger out on the poor innocent mare. He dumped her in the loaner's garden to 'teach her a lesson', Godfather style. Just awful. The mare has been let down by several of our wonderful species that I am so often ashamed to be a member of.
I am puzzled as to why the livery owner has not been arrested, as he is in his seventies apparently and the men arrested were younger.
I don't know what sort of crime he will be held to account for, but I wonder if he'd have got off scott free (as with the cobs) if he'd not gone the extra spiteful mile and dumped her in the garden.
Sadly, he'd have been in more trouble for going round and giving the loaner a slap than for killing the innocent horse.
I just hope that the other liveries there have moved their horses.
Sebastian
Well-Known Member
To me, on the other hand, it is worrying to see the attitudes of some posters here. How can you not give two figs whether the girl paid, or not? It is an important part of the story. I am going to repeat this - what the GG centre has done is inexcusable and horrific, but the loaner is just as responsible for what has happened. It is absolutely ridiculous, in my mind, to absolve her of any responsibility.
Princess Rosie
Well-Known Member
Our thoughts and prayers are with you at this Absolutely horrific time. I hope that you can get justice for your lovely mare. God bless.
rockysmum
Well-Known Member
Well it seems as though once again the RSPCA will be able to report on their involvement by investigating it themselves.
I have has a reply from World Horse Welfare, and I quote
Thank you again for your email. From information received, the two gentleman who were involved in the incident are under arrest by police. The RSPCA are also actively involved with investigating this horrible event. Unless requested by police or the RSPCA, we will not be getting directly involved as one Welfare Organization is already involved. If asked, we would be more than happy to assist
I have has a reply from World Horse Welfare, and I quote
Thank you again for your email. From information received, the two gentleman who were involved in the incident are under arrest by police. The RSPCA are also actively involved with investigating this horrible event. Unless requested by police or the RSPCA, we will not be getting directly involved as one Welfare Organization is already involved. If asked, we would be more than happy to assist
Sebastian
Well-Known Member
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Pretty poor, but it does not surprise me.
Illusion100
Well-Known Member
Both parties are at fault, although IMO very disproportionally.
Yes the loaner should have paid up but for the YO to slaughter a horse because of it is atrocious. I'm forgetful, I'm either in credit or arrears re: livery payment. Should I be more on the ball with paying on time, yes. Does my horse deserve to be destroyed for late payment, no.
Tbh, I don't really care what the Law says, this act deserves punishment. If technically the YO has done nothing wrong, the Law needs changing.
Yes the loaner should have paid up but for the YO to slaughter a horse because of it is atrocious. I'm forgetful, I'm either in credit or arrears re: livery payment. Should I be more on the ball with paying on time, yes. Does my horse deserve to be destroyed for late payment, no.
Tbh, I don't really care what the Law says, this act deserves punishment. If technically the YO has done nothing wrong, the Law needs changing.
NeilM
Well-Known Member
And possibly show others what he will do if they don't pay up.
This keeps striking me as an unbelievably threatening and intimidating (as well as barbaric and wrong) thing to do.
My feeling is that this was not just aimed at the person directly involved and that there is an awful lot that we don't know and probably won't ever know.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Intimidating behaviour is illegal and I think this where the law will go with it .
gmw
Well-Known Member
Do you have to have the horses passport with you when horses are PTS. Shouldn't there be a signature agreeing to horse being PTS by owner and relevant person doing the destroying? I know that when I produced a passport for our beloved horse to be PTS the vet said it wasn't necessary. I just feel that this should be compulsory. Then the passport returned to relevant society. This surely would have alerted the actual owner of the horse as to what was happening. Still a disgusting way to behave and if not.. should be illegal
wowser
Well-Known Member
i think the loaner is playing the victim, i feel for the owner and horse.
if the loaner had paid the rent when asked, this would never of happened, i look at it when you put an animal on someones property, they say they want their rent paid by such and such, that's what you do, after all if you don't like that find somewhere else. as for what yard owner did,very very wrong. everyone has bills to pay
if the loaner had paid the rent when asked, this would never of happened, i look at it when you put an animal on someones property, they say they want their rent paid by such and such, that's what you do, after all if you don't like that find somewhere else. as for what yard owner did,very very wrong. everyone has bills to pay
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
It's a good idea than injured horses can always be put down quickly without mucking around with paperwork.
As a welfare officer I was present several times when horses where PTS without owners knowing each time delay would have prolonged suffering .
In this case on a well run livery yard the YO ought to have all the horses passports so the owner could be easily circumvented anyway .
Anyway a little thing like paperwork is not going to stop someone prepared to shoot a horse and dump it on the debtors lawn over £30.
BlairandAzria
Well-Known Member
The pictures on have website are old, the facilities are tired and aging now.
The lady lived less than 5 minutes away - they could have walked the horse.
My horse is about 10 miles away, and currently still out un rugged and a tb- he is not a welfare case.
There are well known rumours that this gentleman has done this before to travellers ponies, we were discussing it the other day at the yard as I am new to the area and mentioned to a local livery about going and using the gallops. Travellers never got the police involved. We will not be using the facilities now.
Allegedly, The yard has some vicious guard dogs, the night the men were arrested they let out the dogs and locked the gates, meaning existing liveries could not get access to their horses.
The entire incident is disgusting and really horrific. No matter the details, the fact is an innocent horse paid the price.
The lady lived less than 5 minutes away - they could have walked the horse.
My horse is about 10 miles away, and currently still out un rugged and a tb- he is not a welfare case.
There are well known rumours that this gentleman has done this before to travellers ponies, we were discussing it the other day at the yard as I am new to the area and mentioned to a local livery about going and using the gallops. Travellers never got the police involved. We will not be using the facilities now.
Allegedly, The yard has some vicious guard dogs, the night the men were arrested they let out the dogs and locked the gates, meaning existing liveries could not get access to their horses.
The entire incident is disgusting and really horrific. No matter the details, the fact is an innocent horse paid the price.
Amirah
Well-Known Member
Poor horse didn't owe him any money. And on the other side of the coin there are all the lovely yard owners on here who dig deep into their own pockets to feed horses that have been dumped on them by irresponsible owners.
Obviously the YO in this case has two younger accomplacies who are willing to go along with his appalling ideas regarding the 'right way' to deal with things. He really can't see he has done anything wrong! How anyone with even a tiny slither of a heart could shoot that mare is beyond me. She didn't ask to be there, or get a say in who was responsible for her.
Obviously the YO in this case has two younger accomplacies who are willing to go along with his appalling ideas regarding the 'right way' to deal with things. He really can't see he has done anything wrong! How anyone with even a tiny slither of a heart could shoot that mare is beyond me. She didn't ask to be there, or get a say in who was responsible for her.
fburton
Well-Known Member
I suspect the sort of people who do this are also unhinged/deranged.
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digitalangel
Well-Known Member
from beckie warner:
"Cooper Wilson shot her for no reason other than could not load her. He looks after rspca horse that reside at the gg centre he gets paid to do it. A lot of gypsy horses got shot cz they couldn't move them within an hour he shot them. The gypsys we're going crazy and snapped both his ankles. He shot another and took it to a garden in strensal a few years ago. I'd been there 2 weeks and spoke to his mother an hour before to say was bringing £30 around Friday and she said fine. He had other ideas of bringing to garden but went wrong. Into a cattle trailer come on she is 16.3. Not the size if a cow. No headcollar tried to chase her in. Doesn't load well anywhy. No wonder she went crazy. Poor girl. The rspca are up laytons arse as the rspca is a homing centre for 200+ horses and he will kick them off if they say anything out of term about him"
source - facebook
So neither of the people arrested were the YO.
"Cooper Wilson shot her for no reason other than could not load her. He looks after rspca horse that reside at the gg centre he gets paid to do it. A lot of gypsy horses got shot cz they couldn't move them within an hour he shot them. The gypsys we're going crazy and snapped both his ankles. He shot another and took it to a garden in strensal a few years ago. I'd been there 2 weeks and spoke to his mother an hour before to say was bringing £30 around Friday and she said fine. He had other ideas of bringing to garden but went wrong. Into a cattle trailer come on she is 16.3. Not the size if a cow. No headcollar tried to chase her in. Doesn't load well anywhy. No wonder she went crazy. Poor girl. The rspca are up laytons arse as the rspca is a homing centre for 200+ horses and he will kick them off if they say anything out of term about him"
source - facebook
So neither of the people arrested were the YO.
digitalangel
Well-Known Member
"Beckie said cooper Wilson shot him and cooper Wilson is the RSPCA man"
-- fb
-- fb
Moya_999
Well-Known Member
Funny how their terms and conditions are no longer available for download.
love the road they are in Hags Lane.
love the road they are in Hags Lane.