Facebook - Horse shot by livery owner

[Echo Bravo]

The facts are this horse was shot on the yard owners say so, it was not his property to destroy. If someone came along and shot your horse and said you owed them money and Woops sorry wrong person because you had loaned the horse out to somebody that did owe money. 1) where do you stand in getting cost of horse back and what I understand this horse was counted at low value and 2) What would you do to bring the persons that shot your horse to count.

 

[saddlesore]

She knew that this place has a history of shooting horses (as per her own comments on facebook)
She was told that she must pay up front and was adamant that she would not do this
If she had paid, the horse would still be alive.

Those are the facts.

Well if the owner has a history of shooting horses then maybe not!

 

[ladyt25]

I don't think it's right to be naming the person who allegedly shot this horse. Unless their name has been confirmed then that could be very damaging. I do not believe that person, although licenced would agree to shoot a healthy horse in those circumstances.

 

[saddlesore]

They're nor exactly comparable though are they??? one owes a £30 bill, and the other shoots a horse and dumps it in the owners garden Godfather Style, and they are both as responsible?? how does that work then ? I really don't get your logic

Me either tbh.

 

[ladyt25]

Sebastian - don't be so silly of course I'm not defending the girl who didn't pay the rent. I was merely stating that despite wether she owed £30 or 3k it makes absolutely no difference as to wether the men in question were right to shoot a perfectly healthy horse which didn't belong to them, load it in a tractor bucket, drove to through the village and dump it on her front lawn.

This is real life were dealing with here not the 'Godfather' and if these guys get away scot free with what they have done what do you think that means for equines all over the country wether they are owned by irresponsible owners or not. You can't just take the law into your own hands, shoot horses and dump them in gardens!

My point was stated merely for horse welfare. Not to defend the loaner/owner or whoever.

I can't believe people haven't picked up on the RSPCA and how unprofessional their 'reports' are seeing as they are highly biased to this place. But having said that considering they house diseased horses on what is a public facility says a lot to be honest....

I look forward to seeing the vets report to see if it tallys up with their story.......

How do you know diseased horse were or have been kept on this land?

 

[Smurf's Gran]

I cannot follow all of this thread. Am I right in believing that Cooper Wilson was the one who shot the horse?

I had to look in my email box, but have had contact with this man, recommended to me by a CB breeder in the UK after a stallion she bred showed no interest in covering our mares. She said he had been traumatised and this man could help...he wanted a photo and details of what the horse had to eat. We had already had stallion seen by a vet blood tested etc.

My current boy loves his work!!!

But could you honestly keep using his services after this !!

 

[Smurf's Gran]

It's a good idea than injured horses can always be put down quickly without mucking around with paperwork.
As a welfare officer I was present several times when horses where PTS without owners knowing each time delay would have prolonged suffering .
In this case on a well run livery yard the YO ought to have all the horses passports so the owner could be easily circumvented anyway .
Anyway a little thing like paperwork is not going to stop someone prepared to shoot a horse and dump it on the debtors lawn over £30.

The pass port is the property of the owner. I don't know of any yards in York that ask for the passport to be held by them

 

[georgiegirl]

Ladyt25 - I presume the RSPCA are bound by freedom of information so why not ask them?

All I'm saying is it's not just land they rent from this guy and whistle needs blowing on this outfit good and proper.

 

[Smurf's Gran]

Nowhere have I tried to excuse the YO for his actions. I am just trying to fight my way through the morass of hysteria to deal with the facts and the law as it stands.

You say "it has been confirmed" that the debt is £30. By who? Are you saying I should believe everything I read in the newspapers?

We don't know the terms of the livery agreement.

Leave it to the courts and if you don't like the law, write to your MP or sign a petition, I believe there is one. But I will not condone trial by media especially when the public response is fuelled by emotion.

Don't you think there is enough fact about this to condemn it though - loaner owes YO money so YO has horse shot and delivers its dead body to loaner lawn via JCB bucket. These are the facts.. how much more do you need to know...the rest is surely minor detail, is this not bad enough.

 

[Smurf's Gran]

Don't you think there is enough fact about this to condemn it though - loaner owes YO money so YO has horse shot and delivers its dead body to loaner lawn via JCB bucket. These are the facts.. how much more do you need to know...the rest is surely minor detail, is this not bad enough.

I don't know of any livery agreement anywhere that says we can shoot your horse if you don't pay.. how ridiculous

 

[PeterNatt]

I find this incident quite unbelievable. How can someone shoot a healthy horse just because they are owed £30.00 by the person loaning the horse?

 

[minesadouble]

I cannot follow all of this thread. Am I right in believing that Cooper Wilson was the one who shot the horse?


I had to look in my email box, but have had contact with this man, recommended to me by a CB breeder in the UK after a stallion she bred showed no interest in covering our mares. She said he had been traumatised and this man could help...he wanted a photo and details of what the horse had to eat. We had already had stallion seen by a vet blood tested etc.

My current boy loves his work!!!

I haven't previously commented on this post as I hate to pass comment where the facts are not truly known.
However the Cooper Wilson aspect has left me intrigued. He has shot a horse (livery) at our place and and as far as i can gather he is not actually licensed for horse slaughtering?
I have also been led to believe he is an 'animal communicator' who has, in the past, 'communicated' to an owner her horse 'wanted' to be destroyed and then shot the said animal???
This could all be fabrication but am merely repeating what I have heard. All very odd!!

 

[eggs]

The pass port is the property of the owner. I don't know of any yards in York that ask for the passport to be held by them

I don't want to comment on this particular story but the passport should be in possession of the person in charge of the care of the horse so on part/full livery this is usually the YM although for DIY they usually stay with the owner / loaner.

 

[ladyt25]

Ladyt25 - I presume the RSPCA are bound by freedom of information so why not ask them?

All I'm saying is it's not just land they rent from this guy and whistle needs blowing on this outfit good and proper.

I am just saying I do not know where this information about horses having strangles etc has come from. Someone mentioned it in the thread earlier. There doesn't seem to be any evidence and, even if it is the case it's not like other yards haven't suffered with strangles outbreaks. We have had a few at various yards in Yorkshire.
It's not really relevant to the event this thread is about and, as much as I am no fan of the RSPCA I don't actually feel this is a welfare issue so it isn't really something they need involvement in.
However, going forwards it is not good press for them to be associated with this yard. I feel for the horses now as there will not be space for them so they are likely to meet the same fate as this poor horse.

 

[ladyt25]

I haven't previously commented on this post as I hate to pass comment where the facts are not truly known.
However the Cooper Wilson aspect has left me intrigued. He has shot a horse (livery) at our place and and as far as i can gather he is not actually licensed for horse slaughtering?
I have also been led to believe he is an 'animal communicator' who has, in the past, 'communicated' to an owner her horse 'wanted' to be destroyed and then shot the said animal???
This could all be fabrication but am merely repeating what I have heard. All very odd!!

Unsure about this. Surely he'd have to be licensed for him to be who the RSPCA use to shoot the horses they have? If not then that is not good

 

[Smurf's Gran]

I don't think it's right to be naming the person who allegedly shot this horse. Unless their name has been confirmed then that could be very damaging. I do not believe that person, although licenced would agree to shoot a healthy horse in those circumstances.

Cooper Wilsons name has been mentioned by the person who loaned the horse, and this is all over facebook (and the facebook transcript has also been pasted onto this thread) if she is wrong then this would be defamation of character.

 

[cronkmooar]

I haven't previously commented on this post as I hate to pass comment where the facts are not truly known.
However the Cooper Wilson aspect has left me intrigued. ..............I have also been led to believe he is an 'animal communicator' who has, in the past, 'communicated' to an owner her horse 'wanted' to be destroyed and then shot the said animal???
This could all be fabrication but am merely repeating what I have heard. All very odd!!

For the love of all that is holy, surely not.

These people all seem to live on a different planet to me

 

[ladyt25]

Cooper Wilsons name has been mentioned by the person who loaned the horse, and this is all over facebook (and the facebook transcript has also been pasted onto this thread) if she is wrong then this would be defamation of character.

Yes, but nothing official has been mentioned has it? Something very fishy if it is the true as would suggest he was spun a story about why the horse was to be destroyed. All very tragic ��

 

[georgiegirl]

Actually I think it's very pertinent information regarding the general attitude and care that the place and the RSPCA offers....


Imagine if there was a show centre that had strangles/salmonella etc but because they are 'kept round the back then that's ok?' There would be absolute public uproar.

What has basically happened here is a horse has been unlawfully shot by one their own employees. On top of the above...doesn't look good does it?

Said 'charity' is also the ones who have provided the welfare statements to the police. Now seeing as they rent a huge amount of land and buildings from this place doesn't it occur to you that any reports from them may perhaps be biased at the very least? Where else in the law would you see someone advising and reporting on there own crime?

 

[be positive]

Unsure about this. Surely he'd have to be licensed for him to be who the RSPCA use to shoot the horses they have? If not then that is not good

I think the RSPCA's comments were that the horse had been humanely killed but that the gun was not a legal one for use on horses, so the killing was in fact illegal from that point of view, which could tie in with someone who legally has a weapon but is using it inappropriately.
No idea about the RSPCA using an unlicensed person but as they seem to interpret rules on welfare as it suits them they can probably do whatever they like within reason as long as it is considered humane.

 

[Smurf's Gran]

Yes, but nothing official has been mentioned has it? Something very fishy if it is the true as would suggest he was spun a story about why the horse was to be destroyed. All very tragic ��

HERE IS THE FACEBOOK TRANSCRIPT

Default Re: Facebook - Horse shot by livery owner



from beckie warner:

"Cooper Wilson shot her for no reason other than could not load her. He looks after rspca horse that reside at the gg centre he gets paid to do it. A lot of gypsy horses got shot cz they couldn't move them within an hour he shot them. The gypsys we're going crazy and snapped both his ankles. He shot another and took it to a garden in strensal a few years ago. I'd been there 2 weeks and spoke to his mother an hour before to say was bringing £30 around Friday and she said fine. He had other ideas of bringing to garden but went wrong. Into a cattle trailer come on she is 16.3. Not the size if a cow. No headcollar tried to chase her in. Doesn't load well anywhy. No wonder she went crazy. Poor girl. The rspca are up laytons arse as the rspca is a homing centre for 200+ horses and he will kick them off if they say anything out of term about him"

source - facebook

 

[NeilM]

I just looked up the requirements of the licence and if the dispatching is carried out "in the field", or for emergency purposes, then you do not need to be a licensed slaughterman.

 

[ladyt25]

Actually I think it's very pertinent information regarding the general attitude and care that the place and the RSPCA offers....


Imagine if there was a show centre that had strangles/salmonella etc but because they are 'kept round the back then that's ok?' There would be absolute public uproar.

What has basically happened here is a horse has been unlawfully shot by one their own employees. On top of the above...doesn't look good does it?

Said 'charity' is also the ones who have provided the welfare statements to the police. Now seeing as they rent a huge amount of land and buildings from this place doesn't it occur to you that any reports from them may perhaps be biased at the very least? Where else in the law would you see someone advising and reporting on there own crime?

The person mentioned is not a direct employee of the RSPCA as far as i am aware. Plus I am not sure where the proof of the strangles has come from but it's not unheard of for yards to be hit and some competition yards in the area have been closed over the past few months. I am not sure if this yard was amongst them but it may well have been and that makes it no better or worse than others. These things do happen.
I still don't think it has any relevance to the horrific incident that has occurred and there is far too much speculation about who was involved. what this YO did/had done is disgraceful and angers and upsets me but, the horse it seems would never had suffered this horrible fate if the link as loanee had just paid the measly £30

 

[Echo Bravo]

To destroy an animal through not fault of it's own for a £30 debt is dispicable and should be regarded as such and why people are trying to defend what this monster and his henchman did who should have the book thrown at them and prison, makes me wander how they would react in the same situation?

 

[brucea]

Am I the only one that finds it very sad that there is such a lack of trust, indeed a huge level of mistrust and contempt, for the organisation that is meant to be protecting animals in this country?

Dear Lord, I hope none of my animals ever fall into the "care" or RSPCA.

 

[ladyt25]

To destroy an animal through not fault of it's own for a £30 debt is dispicable and should be regarded as such and why people are trying to defend what this monster and his henchman did who should have the book thrown at them and prison, makes me wander how they would react in the same situation?

I don't think anyone is trying to defend the yard owner but, if the person who has been named as actually shooting the horse is correct then I certainly don't think the full story has been heard as i cannot believe that person would shoot a horse without good reason or having been spun a line about the reason! As far as i was aware the person who shot the horse was released without charge if initial reports were correct.

 

[georgiegirl]

The person mentioned is not a direct employee of the RSPCA as far as i am aware. Plus I am not sure where the proof of the strangles has come from but it's not unheard of for yards to be hit and some competition yards in the area have been closed over the past few months. I am not sure if this yard was amongst them but it may well have been and that makes it no better or worse than others. These things do happen.
I still don't think it has any relevance to the horrific incident that has occurred and there is far too much speculation about who was involved. what this YO did/had done is disgraceful and angers and upsets me but, the horse it seems would never had suffered this horrible fate if the link as loanee had just paid the measly £30

What I'm basically trying to say is people are angry because they know what goes on there and the attitudes of the people running the joint.

Whatever the loaner did or did not do is in fact completely irrelevant when compared to shooting dead a perfectly healthy horse and dumping it on someone's lawn. There is NEVER an excuse for doing such a thing regardless of what the owner/loaner or whoever has done.

Given the charity's involvement with the place it can generally be assumed that any evidence or reports given by them can be regarded as irrelevant as they have an interest in the place. Where do you move over 200 horses to?

Hopefully the vets report will shine through the smoke and mirrors of other so called expert opinions. I sincerely hope so a) to get this place shut down completely and b) for the welfare of horses up and down the country who may fall foul of unlawful or unecessary killing just because they 'can get away with it'

 

[Smurf's Gran]

What I'm basically trying to say is people are angry because they know what goes on there and the attitudes of the people running the joint.

Whatever the loaner did or did not do is in fact completely irrelevant when compared to shooting dead a perfectly healthy horse and dumping it on someone's lawn. There is NEVER an excuse for doing such a thing regardless of what the owner/loaner or whoever has done.

Given the charity's involvement with the place it can generally be assumed that any evidence or reports given by them can be regarded as irrelevant as they have an interest in the place. Where do you move over 200 horses to?

Hopefully the vets report will shine through the smoke and mirrors of other so called expert opinions. I sincerely hope so a) to get this place shut down completely and b) for the welfare of horses up and down the country who may fall foul of unlawful or unecessary killing just because they 'can get away with it'

Couldn't agree more

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I find this incident quite unbelievable. How can someone shoot a healthy horse just because they are owed £30.00 by the person loaning the horse?

None of this makes sense!

Why would YO allow the horse onto the land without upfront payment, if that was the usual terms? Having done so why did he suddenly decide that £30 was more than enough debt? If the mare refused to load why didn't YO just lead her to the garden, which can only have been a short distance away?

There has to be more to this than meets the eye!

I shall be interested to hear how this pans out eventually. I wonder if YO and loaner have some kind of previous history.

 

[Honey08]

The poor horse landed in the middle of some really bad characters.