Facebook - Horse shot by livery owner

[Overread]

However I struggle to understand how the loaner didn't expect this to happen when not only was she verbally told this was the policy before moving onto the yard but also acknowledged on Facebook that she was aware he'd shot other horses who were in arrears in the past.

Few thoughts;

1) From what I recall the incident in the past happened one single time (or at least only one single event of it has been reported). This suggests that there might have been something unique in that encounter which resulted in the destruction of those specific horses.
I say that because most normal people would assume any long running business will encounter late or delayed payments through its operation. As a result most people would assume that short term (and low value - £30 is low) outstanding debts would not be an issue that would warrant destruction of of the horse. Kind of like that "ultimate" punishment that only comes after months of contact, arguments and long term problems.

2) Most people don't assume that and animal care centre will dispose of other peoples animals so quickly and in such a final and brutal fashion. It's just not done typically - again this makes people think that the clause is more a threat than a promise.

3) The horses who were shot were "travellers" horses (and I seem to recall that they were left at the yard?). This might well have suggested that since this was the one and only time the yard actually performed the action that it was the nature of the horses being travellers horses (as opposed to other social groups - since no other kills have come to light since that incident) as opposed to those from other social groups.

I suspect that the idea that the horses life would be at direct risk from the lack of payment of the £30 never crossed the persons mind. At worst they likely suspected that the animal would be returned to them and left in their garden tied up - or in the case of long term neglect (on their part) the yard would have moved to take ownership or contact the horses owner direct to resolve matters.




This does beg the question on what else must have happened; the story does have two sides and it would seem a great folly for a functional livery stables to take such drastic and abnormal action as they have.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Few thoughts;

1) From what I recall the incident in the past happened one single time (or at least only one single event of it has been reported). This suggests that there might have been something unique in that encounter which resulted in the destruction of those specific horses.
I say that because most normal people would assume any long running business will encounter late or delayed payments through its operation. As a result most people would assume that short term (and low value - £30 is low) outstanding debts would not be an issue that would warrant destruction of of the horse. Kind of like that "ultimate" punishment that only comes after months of contact, arguments and long term problems.

2) Most people don't assume that and animal care centre will dispose of other peoples animals so quickly and in such a final and brutal fashion. It's just not done typically - again this makes people think that the clause is more a threat than a promise.

3) The horses who were shot were "travellers" horses (and I seem to recall that they were left at the yard?). This might well have suggested that since this was the one and only time the yard actually performed the action that it was the nature of the horses being travellers horses (as opposed to other social groups - since no other kills have come to light since that incident) as opposed to those from other social groups.

I suspect that the idea that the horses life would be at direct risk from the lack of payment of the £30 never crossed the persons mind. At worst they likely suspected that the animal would be returned to them and left in their garden tied up - or in the case of long term neglect (on their part) the yard would have moved to take ownership or contact the horses owner direct to resolve matters.




This does beg the question on what else must have happened; the story does have two sides and it would seem a great folly for a functional livery stables to take such drastic and abnormal action as they have.

I completely agree that there's definitely more to this than meets the eye, but whether we ever hear the full story is another matter. I also agree that it's a rather extreme action to an issue I suspect every YO has encountered at some point or another. Not being local I only know what's been posted on here and Facebook with regard to past incidences but no matter how extreme and unlikely the YO's threat seemed I'm still not sure I'd have put it to the test so to speak, especially if the horse in question wasn't even mine to put at risk in the first place. I just don't understand why anyone would risk their horse at the very least becoming homeless over £30.

All in all it's an incredibly sad state of affairs.

 

[digitalangel]

Yes agree with this a lot of it isn't making sense . Only heard of two liveries leaving and only 1 who has left that wasn't heresay . No horses have left according to an eyewitness . A lot of rumours going around . No liveries have asked for donations to help leave either .

Here's what I think happened :

Overly vindictive and cruel YO decided to make an example of loaner and teach her a lesson . Probably due to losing money on bad payers and as they said in the article the buck has got to stop somewhere .

I completely agree that there's definitely more to this than meets the eye, but whether we ever hear the full story is another matter. I also agree that it's a rather extreme action to an issue I suspect every YO has encountered at some point or another. Not being local I only know what's been posted on here and Facebook with regard to past incidences but no matter how extreme and unlikely the YO's threat seemed I'm still not sure I'd have put it to the test so to speak, especially if the horse in question wasn't even mine to put at risk in the first place. I just don't understand why anyone would risk their horse at the very least becoming homeless over £30.

All in all it's an incredibly sad state of affairs.

 

[digitalangel]

Oh and liveries haven't left and aren't talking because either they're either being intimidated into keeping their heads down or for whatever reason don't want to leave ...

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Oh and liveries haven't left and aren't talking because either they're either being intimidated into keeping their heads down or for whatever reason don't want to leave ...

I'd be interested to know if there's any truth in the rumour that armed police and a transporter had to assist liveries off the yard as the YO had barricaded them in and refused to let them leave.

 

[Moya_999]

Apparently it is because the liveries have given deposits and YO is refusing to return them unless they give the full months notice, I suppose it is a very dificult situation to be in I mean would you want to give this guy a months notice, I know I would think twice yet I suppose people need the deposit money back to give to a new livery yard, although I know there have been offers of free emergency livery and transport....tis a rum one!

I would be worried that my horse would not be alive at the end of the month so.....
I say Boll0cks to the deposit, my horses and sons horses are more important than a few hundred or what ever deposit. I would say keep your damn deposit I'm out. I am not staying in a yard who treats horses this way. He then would not see me for the sparks on my horses feet.

 

[Clara Mo 3]

Few thoughts;

1) From what I recall the incident in the past happened one single time (or at least only one single event of it has been reported). This suggests that there might have been something unique in that encounter which resulted in the destruction of those specific horses.
I say that because most normal people would assume any long running business will encounter late or delayed payments through its operation. As a result most people would assume that short term (and low value - £30 is low) outstanding debts would not be an issue that would warrant destruction of of the horse. Kind of like that "ultimate" punishment that only comes after months of contact, arguments and long term problems.

2) Most people don't assume that and animal care centre will dispose of other peoples animals so quickly and in such a final and brutal fashion. It's just not done typically - again this makes people think that the clause is more a threat than a promise.

3) The horses who were shot were "travellers" horses (and I seem to recall that they were left at the yard?). This might well have suggested that since this was the one and only time the yard actually performed the action that it was the nature of the horses being travellers horses (as opposed to other social groups - since no other kills have come to light since that incident) as opposed to those from other social groups.

I suspect that the idea that the horses life would be at direct risk from the lack of payment of the £30 never crossed the persons mind. At worst they likely suspected that the animal would be returned to them and left in their garden tied up - or in the case of long term neglect (on their part) the yard would have moved to take ownership or contact the horses owner direct to resolve matters.




This does beg the question on what else must have happened; the story does have two sides and it would seem a great folly for a functional livery stables to take such drastic and abnormal action as they have.

I take it you didn't see my post about some of his past evil actions then ? And, for the record, the gypsies who keep their horses round that area (and one of their horses lived with mine for a time) are good payers and do not just dump horses on private yards, so no reason to shoot them at all.

As per my previous post, there was most likely nothing "unique" about this situation, he does nasty things to people all the time.

 

[LadyRascasse]

But if the yard takes deposits and the women had only been there 3 weeks how is she in debt? Every yard I have been on that requires a deposit its about £100 but even if it was just 4 weeks livery thats £40. Something doesn't add up here.

 

[undergroundoli]

I was struggling to believe this so did a bit of googling. The local paper said the loaner had only had poor kit 3 months and implied the owner had inspected the yard she was kept at. What was wrong at yard A that loaner changed yards after 2months and 1 week?

 

[Smurf's Gran]

I am just amazed as ever at the way people view the world..

You know I have zero idea how I would react if someone turned up with a horse that they had just shot, I'm not sure if I would of stayed there and waited with the horse, I can't imagine how I would react, it is a situation so awful that I can't compute it, but I kind of think that if there was someone out here with a gun, I would of gone into the house and locked myself in.

Those who are saying the the leaser is responsible, well yes they are responsible for not paying, I have no idea if she intended to pay or not, but it is just totally beyond any comprehension of mine that anyone thanks that it is OK to shoot a horse over a 30 quid, three week debt.

Completely agree with this. While the loaner should have paid the livery fees as every livery user should. However, the actions taken are totally unjustifiable, and completely unreasonable. Don't understand some of the views of people on here. In whose reality is it ever justifiable, or even understandable to shoot someone's horse because they haven't paid livery. This is the UK and not some lawless country. Yes, if she had paid her livery it wouldn't have happened, but is this seriously behaviour we would ever condone, whatever the amount of the unpaid bill. I don't think I ever could, and amazed at some of the views on here.

 

[Goldenstar]

If it's true that the police had to attend to allow clients to remove their horses the YOer seems to be determined to dig an even bigger hole for himself .
I just can't understand why anybody would stay ( although do I do understand that losing a deposit and finding another at short notice might be difficult ) I mean a place where people are showing such a lack of control and behaving in such a vindictive way ( because the dumping of the horse can't be seen as anything but vindictive ) is not a place where I would feel safe to be and it's certainly not somewhere were I could go to relax and enjoy my horse.
And that's without thinking of the principle of the thing .
Those who have left and 'lost 'their deposits should seek advice ( BHS might be a good start point ) they well be able to make a case that the circumstances left them no choice but to leave and take the YOer to the small claims court for return of the deposit .
They would need some advice from a lawyer experienced in this field but one a lot of advise could help a lot if not all of them so would not be too expensive .

 

[teabiscuit]

It's too brutal, to kill a horse over 30 quid, to a rational mind.
I can't cope with the thought of it.
Either there was much more to it, or the guy is off his trolly psycho.
Either way, poor poor horse, humans stink sometimes.

 

[Smurf's Gran]

Hi, Just thought I would add my two pennies as I have read this thread with interest and I keep my horse close to this place. I know a lot of people are in too much shock to comprehend that this killing is simply over a £30 debt and think surely there must be more to this than we are hearing. Sadly, there probably isn't more to it than the small debt. The man in question (the livery owner) is renowned in this area for being a particularly evil man. In addition to the stories we have read on here, there are three others I can relate which may give you some idea as to the sort of individual he is. He once was owed some money for horse livery so he took the horse to a roundabout in thirsk and tethered it there (alive fortunately). A little odd maybe ? He fell out with an ex employee and took his farm vehicle (JCB/digger or something similar) to the guy's car which was parked outside his house and rammed it until it stood up on its end against the guy's garage wall - a little odd too I think. And he shot his daughters ponies when they decided they weren't as interested in them as they once were - surely one would remind said daughters how fortunate they were or sell the ponies.

So, shooting horses willy nilly and doing things that most of the rest of the population thinks crazy just seem to come as second nature to this individual and are not likely to stop here either if he gets away with it.

As for Cooper, well I am disappointed if he did this without having been given some convincing lies about why it needed to be done, he has looked after my pony before now and always been lovely (not the horse whispering that he does, I don't believe in it !), so this has really given me a kick up the bum with respect to him. I shan't be using either his or the livery's services again, that is for sure.

Kit's owner - I am devastated for you love, so sorry you lost her this way.

Really good to get some proper perspective on here, and local information which has been lacking. I am getting sick of some people suggesting that in some way the loaner is responsible, and trying to offer reasonable excuses for said behaviour.

 

[AmyMay]

I'd be interested to know if there's any truth in the rumour that armed police and a transporter had to assist liveries off the yard as the YO had barricaded them in and refused to let them leave.

Wow.

 

[justice4kit]

To make matters worse the RSPCA refuse to remove horses from the establishment responsible - GG Equestrian. The RSPCA also refuse to give an explanation as to why they continue to financially support the monsters reponsible. Their arrogance in the face of public fury is unbelievable. Growing support ie. online petitions against both bodies is gathering momentum.

 

[diamonddogs]

I was struggling to believe this so did a bit of googling. The local paper said the loaner had only had poor kit 3 months and implied the owner had inspected the yard she was kept at. What was wrong at yard A that loaner changed yards after 2months and 1 week?

Probably nothing. This yard is a short walk from her house, is cheap and on the face of it, has great facilities.

 

[Clara Mo 3]

Really good to get some proper perspective on here, and local information which has been lacking. I am getting sick of some people suggesting that in some way the loaner is responsible, and trying to offer reasonable excuses for said behaviour.

Thanks, he is notoriously a nasty evil man. I think people want to believe there is more to it, they cannot comprehend such disgraceful behaviour could possibly only be connected with a £30 debt. Well, knowing how this man operates, I'm afraid the likelihood is that it really was over a £30 debt. he is deranged and should be stopped somehow, but he has got away with it for years, and when money is no object, what's to stop him ?

 

[amandaco2]

Sickening. What a vile malicious act.to the killers of kit i hope you get whats due to you, and it aint your precious thirty quid thats for sure

 

[Smurf's Gran]

Thanks, he is notoriously a nasty evil man. I think people want to believe there is more to it, they cannot comprehend such disgraceful behaviour could possibly only be connected with a £30 debt. Well, knowing how this man operates, I'm afraid the likelihood is that it really was over a £30 debt. he is deranged and should be stopped somehow, but he has got away with it for years, and when money is no object, what's to stop him ?

Well hopefully this action taken will live on for long enough in peoples minds to out him out of business. Good to get very local info though, as some of the posts on here seem to be looking for reasonable explanations, where it appears there are none

 

[diamonddogs]

... as some of the posts on here seem to be looking for reasonable explanations, where it appears there are none

I don't read most of the threads in the light of trying to excuse what's happened at all. People are just trying to get their heads round what's happened. I think this is because nobody wants to believe that a person could be capable of doing something so barbaric. It's just beyond my comprehension that someone would do something so vile and not even feel any remorse in the face of mounting support for Kit and her humans.

 

[undergroundoli]

Probably nothing. This yard is a short walk from her house, is cheap and on the face of it, has great facilities.

True, so why not start off at it?

 

[georgiegirl]

I believe she had only just recently moved house which would tie in to moving to another yard

 

[Wagtail]

Really good to get some proper perspective on here, and local information which has been lacking. I am getting sick of some people suggesting that in some way the loaner is responsible, and trying to offer reasonable excuses for said behaviour.

Not ONE person has come out in support of the YO. I think, without exception everyone on this thread has condemned his actions as totally outrageous and disgusting. Please quote where anyone has supported him killing this poor horse.

People HAVE said that they would be livid with the loaner if they owned the horse, as would I. I would totally hate her if it had been my horse. But I would be gunning for the person that actually carried out the horrendous deed. That person is a total psychopath.

 

[BethanT]

I was struggling to believe this so did a bit of googling. The local paper said the loaner had only had poor kit 3 months and implied the owner had inspected the yard she was kept at. What was wrong at yard A that loaner changed yards after 2months and 1 week?

I too was starting to wonder why she was planning to leave the yard after only 4 weeks. To then find out the information you have provided does make it all sound a tad odd. Did the owner know she had moved yards? I know im my loan contract if the loaner moves my pony she has to inform me before she does so.

While this whole situation is dreadful and I do not, in any way, condone what the YO has done - the loaner does have some degree of oddness about her. Not only that but I find that the pictures of her "showing off" the blood stained sheet odd, as I don't think I would want my face in the papers, not like that. But I could be getting at the wrong end of the stick.

Again, I have the uthmost sympathy for both loaner and the owner as the whole thing is disgusting, and I am NOT saying that the loaner has equal blame as the YO, but something is just not sitting right with me. Like people have said, I think there is more to this than has been realsed to public knowlege.

 

[Rollin]

Can someone clarify for me WHO shot the horse, was it the Yard Owner or another person named who is an animal behaviourist or some such who I believe I have had dealings with.

Was the horse dumped dead or alive - it has been suggested it was delivered still alive - even more shocking.

 

[Clara Mo 3]

I don't think the loaner is whiter than white, she appears to be a serial non-payer by all accounts and an attention-seeker (referring to the press pictures), however nothing excuses the YO's actions, nor his past actions - which are too many too mention - over the years. He is an arrogant man who has got away with too much in the past and, like a naughty child who tests the boundaries and does something naughtier each time until there is a punishment or other discipline, he continues to behave badly and gets worse each time because he hasn't been "disciplined" so far.

I feel for Kit and her owner, I would probably be facing a prison sentence now if someone had done that to my horse and were looking likely to get away with it.

 

[BethanT]

I don't think the loaner is whiter than white, she appears to be a serial non-payer by all accounts and an attention-seeker (referring to the press pictures),

This is what I was getting at - mainly the attention seeking. Just doesn't feel right. Above all, just not fair on the actual owner of the horse for it to be publicised so much, I can't help but feel if it was another person it may not have been publicised to this extent. But again, I could be wrong.

 

[cptrayes]

Can someone clarify for me WHO shot the horse, was it the Yard Owner or another person named who is an animal behaviourist or some such who I believe I have had dealings with.

Was the horse dumped dead or alive - it has been suggested it was delivered still alive - even more shocking.

All on the other thread.

 

[digitalangel]

I don't know I don't think it's fair to judge the loaner !

As for the rumour with armed police etc no it's *******s - someone trying to stir the pot .

The other liveries aren't talking and I do find that interesting

This is what I was getting at - mainly the attention seeking. Just doesn't feel right. Above all, just not fair on the actual owner of the horse for it to be publicised so much, I can't help but feel if it was another person it may not have been publicised to this extent. But again, I could be wrong.

 

[Wagtail]

Even though I have said I would have been livid with the loaner if it were my horse, I think the photographs would have been requested by the press. They decide what photographs they want and the more sensational, the better.

Also, I don't understand liveries needing money to move. Usually the deposit a yard takes is equivalent to one month's livery, which in this case would be around £40. Personally I never take a deposit, just ask for a month's livery in advance. But really, if liveries cannot afford to move, then they can't afford to keep horses. What would they do if their horse needs the vet?