Facebook - Horse shot by livery owner

[Overread]

As with any story hot in the social media and with little official info there are a lot of stories flying around - and someone suggests an idea in one thread; someone else reports that in another forum as fact then another repeats it and suddenly "facts" appear without any justification.

It makes a messy sea of things quickly that can get out of hand - or can simply be very hard to sort out. That the situation is abnormal makes it even harder because of the YO's clearly strange and quite hostile nature. Plus, as with any online news story, its very easy for any party to make bold claims, even under different accounts, to further their end cause (I'm not in anyway saying that this is for certain happening or not - just that its always a possibility)

This is especially true as it seems he's run the yard for a long time and done well; even getting the RSPCA on-site as well. This thus begs the questions as to if there is more to it or if he's just been very lucky in keeping his bad-press very local and not having it get out so overtly.



In the case of publicity chances are that its a good thing; if the YO has a history of doing similar things its likely that a lack of effective publicity (or any at all) meant he could continue without too much attention being drawn to it.


The oddly muddy area that seems to be appearing is the actions of the other owners at the site using the livery services. Getting a fair few mixed messages there from claims everyone is jumping ship to a more muted response. Would be good to get some further solid fact on that front as it tells a big part of the picture (if they all are not jumping ship it suggests that there might be far more to the story than we've heard thus far).

 

[rowan666]

The other liveries aren't talking and I do find that interesting

totally agree, very strange indeed! Although maybe they fear for their horses lives if they speak out? I dnt know its all very odd and extremely unnerving, I cant quite believe its (in the eyes of the law) acceptable to randomly shoot people's pets without just cause!

 

[Overread]

totally agree, very strange indeed! Although maybe they fear for their horses lives if they speak out? I dnt know its all very odd and extremely unnerving, I cant quite believe its (in the eyes of the law) acceptable to randomly shoot people's pets without just cause!

It might also be that they don't want to jeopardize any potential legal action by making claims. Cases have been thrown out in the past because of publicity of details and punishments reduced because of a "witch-hunt" claim.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

I don't read most of the threads in the light of trying to excuse what's happened at all. People are just trying to get their heads round what's happened. I think this is because nobody wants to believe that a person could be capable of doing something so barbaric. It's just beyond my comprehension that someone would do something so vile and not even feel any remorse in the face of mounting support for Kit and her humans.

The problem is that everyone on here is looking at it from the perspective of being horse lovers that we are. To understand his actions you have to acknowledge that some people are nasty and selfish, without much of a conscience and that they don't value human life very highly, so don't care what suffering they cause and they don't value animal life at all, viewing them only in terms of monetary value as posessions rather than as living breathing creatures with thoughts and emotions. It horrified us on this forum because we don't think that way and we would never do such a thing. But I've met people like that and I can totally believe that he shot a horse over a 30 pound debt (and IMO probably to prevent further debt, as well as put others off from running up debts with him) and in his mind felt that he was justified in doing so.

 

[cptrayes]

I cant quite believe its (in the eyes of the law) acceptable to randomly shoot people's pets without just cause!

It isn't. But in the eyes of the law, it is only damaging property. I have, probably pointlessly, started a gov.uk petition to have the law change to recognise the emotional value of our animals. As soon as it goes live, I will let everyone know and ask you to spread it as wide as you can.

 

[Wagtail]

It isn't. But in the eyes of the law, it is only damaging property. I have, probably pointlessly, started a gov.uk petition to have the law change to recognise the emotional value of our animals. As soon as it goes live, I will let everyone know and ask you to spread it as wide as you can.

That is certainly something I would support.

 

[rowan666]

It isn't. But in the eyes of the law, it is only damaging property. I have, probably pointlessly, started a gov.uk petition to have the law change to recognise the emotional value of our animals. As soon as it goes live, I will let everyone know and ask you to spread it as wide as you can.

but from what im gathering, its unlikely that anyone would serve a decent custodial sentence for doing so? (I dont know, just going off what ive read on this thread) fantastic that you are doing something pro active! Completely support you and will definitely be signing

 

[Circe]

It's too brutal, to kill a horse over 30 quid, to a rational mind.
I can't cope with the thought of it.
Either there was much more to it, or the guy is off his trolly psycho.
Either way, poor poor horse, humans stink sometimes.

^ this . I'm just reading this thread, and cant quite believe it.
My heart goes out to Kits owner. RIP kit

 

[Amirah]

It isn't. But in the eyes of the law, it is only damaging property. I have, probably pointlessly, started a gov.uk petition to have the law change to recognise the emotional value of our animals. As soon as it goes live, I will let everyone know and ask you to spread it as wide as you can.

Definitely will be signing it. Thank you for starting it, although I feel your pain at how little power petitions seem to have.

Apparently you don't have to pay a deposit for grass livery, and she had paid the first ten pounds, and then didn't pay for three weeks.

However, even if this lady is a poor payer, I feel people's annoyance at her (mine included) is because we wish she had paid and not put us all through the pain of seeing what happened to the poor horse. However, 'There for the grace of God go I'. I feel very lucky to own my own land, but aren't we all just three pieces of bad luck away from struggling to pay our bills? Yes, she shouldn't have taken on a horse without being able to afford it, but that's another issue really.

Who would believe he would take such extreme and frankly insane action over £30? Peanuts, probably cost him more in time and diesel to do what he did. Sheer spite, temper and vindictiveness. The man has mental problems and needs anger management help.

It seems that his son is the one who is out on bail (a chip off the old block obviously) and that Cooper was persuaded that the horse was ill, which doesn't say much for his 'ac' skills, not that I believe in it anyway, or that any info they do get right comes from God or any place good.

I sincerely hope that there is some justice for Kit, and that no animals are harmed by the Johnson family in the future. Kit's owner, my heart goes out to you that you are having to live through this horrible ordeal, God bless you.

 

[brucea]

It will be interesting to hear how other liveries are reacting

I guess they have been told that a dim view will be taken of any comments on social media. In any case they will likely be taking time to work out what to do next rather than jumping quickly.

 

[Holly Hocks]

It isn't. But in the eyes of the law, it is only damaging property. I have, probably pointlessly, started a gov.uk petition to have the law change to recognise the emotional value of our animals. As soon as it goes live, I will let everyone know and ask you to spread it as wide as you can.

Excellent idea.

 

[*Whinney*]

RIP Kit and condolences to your owner.

While not condoning what the YO did in any way, if the loaner had just paid the measly £40 needed for the month in advance this would not have happened.

 

[amandaco2]

I hope the liveries get away safely. Id also be forgoing any deposit to get my animals away, tho I do appreciate some wouldn't be able to...I hope they get lots of local help from yards if needed....

 

[thehorsephotographer]

As Clare Mo 3 says he is a notoriously evil man. He has in the past shot several gypsy horses (2 I know for certain since he boasted about them to a very close relative himself, the third was passed on second hand). Whether Cooper also shot the gypsy horses I don't know but be under no illusions that Cooper would not be fooled about whether a horse was sick or not - he's very astute and clued up. One would have hoped that his advice would have been to leave the horse to settle until the following morning and then ask the loaner or owner to remove it from the yard. Just why they were doing any of this at night raises questions as to their motive I think.

There is no justification for this act whatsoever. What I will say however is that where the loaner lives is literally a stones throw from the GG centre - the horse could have been walked there in under 5 minutes - it's literally round the corner rather than all this herding about trying to get it into a trailer in the dead of night.

 

[thehorsephotographer]

Just to be clear my horses are also kept very close to the GG centre, in common with a lot of others from the area the GG centre owners are known very well by my family.

 

[Moya_999]

lots of views here
https://www.facebook.com/pages/GG-centre/272405556178498?fref=ts

 

[diamonddogs]

...

The other liveries aren't talking and I do find that interesting

I don't. OK, I've got my horse on what looks to be a very nice yard with good facilities, at a very reasonable cost. It's convenient, and I can visit my horse when I want to. I abide by the rules, pay my bills and get on with everyone else there.

Then one day I find out the the owner and his family perform this outrageous act, then I find out that he's got form for doing similar in the past. I'm scared to even look at any of them the wrong way, knowing that my horse is at their mercy, and they have a stock of what might even be unlicensed firearms that he's not afraid to use.

Damn right I wouldn't be talking. Not on social media, not to the press, nobody down the local pub.

Can I just say though, I probably couldn't afford to lose my deposit either, specially as it seems quite normal to have to pay it before you move on (I never have, so I thought THAT was normal, and we pay in arrears, which isn't, but each yard is different, and what works for one might not for another), and I resent anyone making the implication that if I can't afford to lose my deposit then I shouldn't have a horse, as I'm clearly too poverty stricken to afford one. I do have a contingency fund for emergencies, but in the normal run of things, dipping into it to pay a deposit on a new yard wouldn't be considered an emergency.

Obviously this situation is not normal, and I'd find the money somewhere even if it meant selling my tack or something. In fact, I'd rather sell my horse than leave her on that particular yard if the situation was that dire (I speak hypothetically of course, but I couldn't leave her at his mercy for a minute longer than I had to).

 

[Spring Feather]

Well if my horses were there, and there was no more to this, then I'd class it as an emergency relocation and would have already moved them. Funny how we all see things differently.

 

[diamonddogs]

TBH, Spring Feather, mine would be off there even if there was more to it, because he's clearly a psycho, and has either bred a family of pyschos or they're too scared of him to do anything else but comply with his wishes. I've tried hard to imagine a circumstance that would make this all OK but there just isn't one, is there? Even if the loaner was an absolute nightmare, demanding this that and the other, threatening staff and other liveries, behaving in a violent manner, whatever else you can think of (and there's no evidence that she was any of these things), poor Kit didn't deserve to pay that price.

ETA: I'd hate to be in their shoes, I really would. I'd be beside myself with worry every minute my horse was there.

 

[Sheik]

There needs to be a clear understanding here. There were two men arrested. One of these was released WITHOUT charge. The other CHARGED. Doesn't this give us a clear understanding that perhaps the man who actually shot the horse was called to put it out of its misery and the actual perpetrator was the person that inflicted harm and suffering on the horse in the first place? A criminal can be very misleading and has been charged. But to prejudge the poor guy that shot the horse (that was suffering) has not!!!

 

[Moya_999]

There needs to be a clear understanding here. There were two men arrested. One of these was released WITHOUT charge. The other CHARGED. Doesn't this give us a clear understanding that perhaps the man who actually shot the horse was called to put it out of its misery and the actual perpetrator was the person that inflicted harm and suffering on the horse in the first place? A criminal can be very misleading and has been charged. But to prejudge the poor guy that shot the horse (that was suffering) has not!!!

Newby poster only posts on this thread saying the horse was suffering when already stated by the owner that she was not hmmmmmmmmmmm smells like a troll

 

[Sheik]

Newby poster only posts on this thread saying the horse was suffering when already stated by the owner that she was not hmmmmmmmmmmm smells like a troll

The horse was not suffering when the owner left it in the field. It suffered at the hands of the owner of the GG centre who went to the field late at night, hmmmmmm yeah. what was he doing there in the dark and with what equipment because the horse had string around its neck, not a halter.

 

[Moomin1]

Newby poster only posts on this thread saying the horse was suffering when already stated by the owner that she was not hmmmmmmmmmmm smells like a troll

The owner would hardly be likely to admit the horse was suffering.

 

[diamonddogs]

There needs to be a clear understanding here. There were two men arrested. One of these was released WITHOUT charge. The other CHARGED. Doesn't this give us a clear understanding that perhaps the man who actually shot the horse was called to put it out of its misery and the actual perpetrator was the person that inflicted harm and suffering on the horse in the first place? A criminal can be very misleading and has been charged. But to prejudge the poor guy that shot the horse (that was suffering) has not!!!

Your point being...?

There's a crime of aiding and abetting, you know. Unless he turned up after the event and decided that this poor mare had had enough and needed to be put out of her misery, which I doubt, he's as bad as everyone else who was there, and either took part or stood and watched.

Actually, I don't give a **** - they were all there, and were therefore all as guilty as each other. Anyone with a smidgeon of love and respect for animals would have done SOMEthing.

 

[Wagtail]

Can I just say though, I probably couldn't afford to lose my deposit either, specially as it seems quite normal to have to pay it before you move on (I never have, so I thought THAT was normal, and we pay in arrears, which isn't, but each yard is different, and what works for one might not for another), and I resent anyone making the implication that if I can't afford to lose my deposit then I shouldn't have a horse, as I'm clearly too poverty stricken to afford one. I do have a contingency fund for emergencies, but in the normal run of things, dipping into it to pay a deposit on a new yard wouldn't be considered an emergency.

You have a contingency fund for emergencies... THIS would be an emergency. I am talking about people who in an emergency could not find the funds to give an animal essential veterinary treatment. I am sorry, but they should not have animals. It is not fair on the animals. When we own horses in particular there are always going to be unexpected costs. Costs which you have made provisions for, and so I fail to see how you would think my comment would apply to you. None of us could 'afford' to lose money, not unless we are wealthy. I recently had to fork out over £500 for an emergency operation on my JRT. This was completely unexpected and has really hurt financially, but when you have animals you have to expect to have to fork out money which are beyond what you had budgeted for. I stand by my statement that anyone who cannot find money for these kinds of emergencies should not have animals.

 

[Overread]

We'll have to wait for the post mortem and any investigation to get an idea as to if the horse was suffering directly before it was shot. I wonder if the yard had CCTV installed as that would (if it were working and operating in the area that the horse was in) be pretty clear cut evidence.

Otherwise we only know what there was string/cable around the horses neck and legs at least when it was dumped. We can't say if any of that was present before or during the shooting.

edit Wagtail what about people who have their horse insured for medical purposes? They might be able to afford insurance and all the horses base costs whilst letting insurance cover any sudden major health bills.

Also its not out of the question that people have ups and downs in their income - a down period (eg job loss) could cause someone to be earning less than ideal to keep a horse; but who is otherwise able to meet costs (or arrange for delayed payment etc...).
Also if the centre offers full livery some might be away on business or other trips; and thus not be on-site to deal with any problems (ergo trusting the livery to do that).

 

[Wagtail]

I think what Sheik was trying to say is that the YOers son injured the horse by chasing it around the field with a JCB and dragging it to the gate with baler twine around its neck attached to said JCB. I think he/she was saying that Wilson then was called to end its suffering and had been released without charge.

 

[cptrayes]

but from what im gathering, its unlikely that anyone would serve a decent custodial sentence for doing so? (I dont know, just going off what ive read on this thread) fantastic that you are doing something pro active! Completely support you and will definitely be signing

That's the point of it really. If we put a proper value on the animal, the penalty for killing our stealing it will be much more serious, as it should be.

It's pretty outrageous to treat killing a five hundred pound worth horse the same way as kicking someone's car door in, which is what the law does now.

 

[cbmcts]

I think what Sheik was trying to say is that the YOers son injured the horse by chasing it around the field with a JCB and dragging it to the gate with baler twine around its neck attached to said JCB. I think he/she was saying that Wilson then was called to end its suffering and had been released without charge.

That's what I thought they were saying too

IF that was the case, there has to be potential for animal cruelty charges along with criminal damage? (Moomin?)
THere is no situation I can think of where it is acceptable to use farm machinery to drag a live animal - well, except maybe to remove it from a ditch or river if it was in mortal danger but you've have a vet to supervise wouldn't you?

 

[diamonddogs]

Sorry to be picky, Wagtail, but why didn't you quote my whole post? And include the bit where I said this would have been an emergency and what I would be prepared to do to find the money?

Anyhow, I wouldn't have to find a huge amount of money for a vet bill anyway at the moment because all my animals are insured for vet bills (I said at the moment, because none of them have any conditions right now that would mean they weren't covered) and more. Maybe it's just me, but I have a personal rule that if you can insure it, you do insure it.