Facebook - Horse shot by livery owner

[mulledwhine]

I have used the facilities here several times over the years and it's always been pleasant. Pony clubs often hire the facilities for training and camps I believe as well. I certainly would not consider giving any money to anywhere where they consider this behaviour acceptable over non-payment of a debt! Selling a horsr to cover unpaid livery debts is one thing but this? Just appalling.
Dread to think what will happen to the poor RSPCA'S equines now as not good to be associated with this.

Seriously!!!! You still will want to use this facility?????

Head bang on desk

 

[mulledwhine]

Apologies, just re read, I was so angry I only read the first bit

 

[Red-1]

It was a captive bolt gun. If they're not touching flesh they ain't going to harm you.

I don't know about that, reports said it was a .38, which is a revolver, not a captive bolt.

Other than a hole in the head of the horse I am interested as to how, in the dark, you would know what type of gun was used?

I honestly don't know what I would do. Finding my shot horse dumped in my garden, with deranged gunman possibly outside (well he is not inside that much is certain), I don't think running inside and phoning the Police is way out there. I suspect I would be wailing at my horse's head, calling the vet, but I don't know that, especially if I had two toddlers or young children in the house. In that case I suspect locking the door and calling the Police was entirely the correct course of action.

I am more amazed that most of the liveries have stayed. My deposit, bond and a month up front would not make me leave my horse in the yard of such a different thinking person.

I also disagree that the loaner is as guilty. She is indeed guilty of non payment of £30. She is not guilty of shooting the horse, and delivering it to a family home and dumping it over the wall.

To the poster asking about the head in bed scenario - it would be more than criminal damage of the sheets, it would actually be burglary as they would have entered as a trespasser in order to commit the criminal damage to the sheets.

What kind of a wacky world do we live in where we even have to discuss such things?

 

[Sandstone1]

If anyone had done that to one of my horses......

Quite, I'm afraid if it was my horse and the law was doing nothing, then I would be taking steps myself.

 

[Red-1]

Oh, and to add, I wonder what the RSPCA's stance is to trying to load a 16.3hh horse into a cattle trainer?

I am sure if someone was to try to load with force a similar horse into a similar trailer at a hunt meet then there would be a rumpus.

 

[rockysmum]

One thing I have been considering, why was there not this kind of outrage when they did this before?

Why were there not 52 page threads on here, Facebook campaigns, petitions, pages in memory etc etc

Apparently plenty of people knew about it at the time.

The difference? The three he did this to before were traveler horses. Do we have different standards depending on who the owners are?

 

[mulledwhine]

I agree that there is no justification for this, but I would like to know the full story of what actually happened here.



I don't know why people assume that wanting to know the full story equates with trying to justify what has happened.

I am confused.

Agreed!!!, #confused #disgusted

 

[cobgoblin]

I have been following this dreadful story over the last couple of days.
The thing that keeps jumping out at me, despite the conflicting reports is that, to me, this guy actually seemed to want to kill this horse. There were so many other ways of dealing with the situation at any point, especially as he knew where the loaner lived and it was only one mile away. If he couldn't catch the horse, what difference would one day have made anyway?
Ghastly situation, poor owner, loaner and horse!

 

[Goldenstar]

One thing I have been considering, why was there not this kind of outrage when they did this before?

Why were there not 52 page threads on here, Facebook campaigns, petitions, pages in memory etc etc

Apparently plenty of people knew about it at the time.

The difference? The three he did this to before were traveler horses. Do we have different standards depending on who the owners are?

No I don't think so those horses according to what I have read were dumped on his land he has to put up a notice then after fourteen days ( I think ) he can get rid of them that's very different to shooting a horse belonging to a customer in arrears when the horse belongs to someone else .

 

[Red-1]

One thing I have been considering, why was there not this kind of outrage when they did this before?

Why were there not 52 page threads on here, Facebook campaigns, petitions, pages in memory etc etc

Apparently plenty of people knew about it at the time.

The difference? The three he did this to before were traveler horses. Do we have different standards depending on who the owners are?

I doubt the owners of the previous cases went to the Police and press.

In fact recently there was a coloured cob stabbed at the roadside, and because the vet and authorities were involved, and the press got the story and there was plenty said about how awful that was too.

Awful is awful, no matter who owns the horse.

 

[Amirah]

One thing I have been considering, why was there not this kind of outrage when they did this before?

Why were there not 52 page threads on here, Facebook campaigns, petitions, pages in memory etc etc

Apparently plenty of people knew about it at the time.

The difference? The three he did this to before were traveler horses. Do we have different standards depending on who the owners are?

I thought that too, if a stink had been raised the first time this happened then Kit might still be here. He got away with it back then and thought he could do it again, bet he's regretting it now.

The travellers' horses were just as innocent as poor Kit.

The lady who started the Facebook group has a donations page now, for getting horses relocated etc.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/in-honour-of-kit-and-the-horses-at-gg-centre

 

[Sukistokes2]

With the gypsy cobs ....again he killed! He did not sell to potters or offer them for sale for fifty quid, he slaughtered them, there is no doubt in my mind that this man is a total nutter who will go on to worst things.......if he has not already....!

 

[Honey08]

One thing I have been considering, why was there not this kind of outrage when they did this before?

Why were there not 52 page threads on here, Facebook campaigns, petitions, pages in memory etc etc

Apparently plenty of people knew about it at the time.

The difference? The three he did this to before were traveler horses. Do we have different standards depending on who the owners are?

No, of course not, but the owners probably didn't care much or publicise it on that occasion. They probably work on the some you win/some you lose theory when it comes to fly grazing, on that occasion it wax an epic lose..

 

[rockysmum]

I would be interested to know how many liveries have actually left the place, or people cancelled bookings. He might get away with it again when thinks calm down

 

[Moya_999]

I would be moving out asap if I was there, even if I had to do it secretly I would not stay at a yard with a sadistic prat like this.

Heart felt vibes to all concerned, such a beautiful mare, run free KIT over the Rainbow.

How anyone would stay at this yard is beyond me, you owe it to the memory of KIT and for your own horses to MOVE............................

 

[Dolcé]

I haven't previously commented on this post as I hate to pass comment where the facts are not truly known.
However the Cooper Wilson aspect has left me intrigued. He has shot a horse (livery) at our place and and as far as i can gather he is not actually licensed for horse slaughtering?
I have also been led to believe he is an 'animal communicator' who has, in the past, 'communicated' to an owner her horse 'wanted' to be destroyed and then shot the said animal???
This could all be fabrication but am merely repeating what I have heard. All very odd!!

Funnily enough, and I very much doubt it is me you are talking about, he pretty much told me the same thing about my pony. I had just been wondering how many other people he has told this to when your post popped up, anyone else? He went off my yard having convinced me he was a total fake! Why was I not surprised when his name popped up on this thread in relation to the 'murdered' horse! FWIW, my boy is happily munching in the field over a year later.

 

[Wagtail]

My vet told me about a male animal communicator who told someone their horse was depressed because he wanted to die. I am now wondering if it's the same person as most ACs are female and it's a very odd thing for them to say...

 

[YorksG]

The comments about the 'communicator' telling people that their horse wants to be shot, then offering to do the deed, concern me immensly. That type of behaviour pattern speaks of someone with grandiose delusions of their right of dominion over life and death.

 

[Leo Walker]

Didnt he get both ankles broken by the owners of the coloured cobs he shot? They could have come on to social media and called the polie, but looks like they choose to deal with it in a different way, and in light of what people have said here, I'm not sure I wouldnt have at least considered similar!

 

[Dolcé]

ooh Wagtail, depression was mentioned, and YorksG, yes, he did offer to do the deed for us. I was incredibly disappointed by the whole thing as he came very highly recommended by someone I have a lot of respect for. It was a waste of money and, had I been easy to persuade, would have ended the life of the little lad (but it would be the best for him you see!!) who was perfectly healthy but very shy.

Oh, and if I remember correctly he had a foul mouth which was very inappropriate around my children!

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Didnt he get both ankles broken by the owners of the coloured cobs he shot? They could have come on to social media and called the polie, but looks like they choose to deal with it in a different way, and in light of what people have said here, I'm not sure I wouldnt have at least considered similar!

is that actually true though? was it just from the one post we've heard about that?

I want to say of course he's a charlatan if he's a horse whisperer but one that goes around telling owners their horses want to die is a new level of weird and disturbing. But if this guy is relatively well known in the area, well 2 broken ankles (even if not the knowledge of how it happened) would have been known. He's no spring chicken, would have throughout two broken ankles would have put him out of action a fair while.

 

[ladyt25]

Apologies, just re read, I was so angry I only read the first bit[/QUOTE
Glad you you re-read! I have been there (not for about 5 years). Just goes to show you never know people!
As for the 'communicator' I have had him recently and he certainly did not tell me my horse was depressed! He did pick up some weird things about me though and was bang on with some things he said about my horse.
I still cannot comprehend he would destroy a healthy horse though as am aware he does not like having to do this when the RSPCA instruct him to

 

[FestiveFuzz]

I think that is harsh. I think she should feel guilty towards the man for not paying on time, but I don't think she should feel guilty for the shooting of the horse.

I am sure the lady did not foresee the outcome, nor would I have expected her to.

As the lady is known to read this thread I would like to tell her that I do not think you should feel guilty for this totally unexpected outcome, and I am very sorry for your loss.

Really? I think the alleged spoken agreement with the YO that any horse whose livery is in arrears will be shot/PTS means this is far from an unexpected outcome if you chose to refuse to pay your livery on time. I also don't buy the excuse that the YO was known to withhold bonds/deposits when terminating livery. Surely if you're unhappy with the arrangement you look elsewhere rather than moving on to the yard anyway and then trying to make up your own rules. Not to mention that I have never known a yard that doesn't expect the first months livery upfront.

I'm not for one moment condoning the mindless killing of an innocent horse but my sympathies lie with the horse and it's owner, not the loaner.

With the gypsy cobs ....again he killed! He did not sell to potters or offer them for sale for fifty quid, he slaughtered them, there is no doubt in my mind that this man is a total nutter who will go on to worst things.......if he has not already....!

I really don't get this. Time and time again we hear their are worst fates than PTS and yet here you're suggesting the mare should have been sold for meat/£50 for an unknown future. If it were my horse I know which outcome I'd prefer.

 

[ladyt25]

Really? I think the alleged spoken agreement with the YO that any horse whose livery is in arrears will be shot/PTS means this is far from an unexpected outcome if you chose to refuse to pay your livery on time. I also don't buy the excuse that the YO was known to withhold bonds/deposits when terminating livery. Surely if you're unhappy with the arrangement you look elsewhere rather than moving on to the yard anyway and then trying to make up your own rules. Not to mention that I have never known a yard that doesn't expect the first months livery upfront.

I'm not for one moment condoning the mindless killing of an innocent horse but my sympathies lie with the horse and it's owner, not the loaner.



I really don't get this. Time and time again we hear their are worst fates than PTS and yet here you're suggesting the mare should have been sold for meat/£50 for an unknown future. If it were my horse I know which outcome I'd prefer.

It's the same with people going off about the RSPCA and the horses they have at this yard and the fact many are destroyed. What do people think is going to happen? I don't see people jumping up to rehome these poor souls who have been seized by the RSPCA for various reasons. There's only so much space and, like council dog pounds there is sadly too many that they feel can't be rehomed. You only have to look at their rehoming website. The vast majority are very poor examples of coloured cobs. Who here has given these a home? I don't think you're in a position to judge. It's the owners' fault these poor animals end up with this happening.
I am not an RSPCA supporter by any means but too many unwanted horses is only going to result in one outcome.
That situation though has no relevance to this incident in my opinion though.

 

[Sukistokes2]

Really? I think the alleged spoken agreement with the YO that any horse whose livery is in arrears will be shot/PTS means this is far from an unexpected outcome if you chose to refuse to pay your livery on time. I also don't buy the excuse that the YO was known to withhold bonds/deposits when terminating livery. Surely if you're unhappy with the arrangement you look elsewhere rather than moving on to the yard anyway and then trying to make up your own rules. Not to mention that I have never known a yard that doesn't expect the first months livery upfront.

I'm not for one moment condoning the mindless killing of an innocent horse but my sympathies lie with the horse and it's owner, not the loaner.



I really don't get this. Time and time again we hear their are worst fates than PTS and yet here you're suggesting the mare should have been sold for meat/£50 for an unknown future. If it were my horse I know which outcome I'd prefer.

Surely everything/ one deserves a chance, who is to say they would not have found homes! Your sympathy seems to be fickle...maybe these ponies don't deserve the consideration given a TB

 

[diamonddogs]

I'm still in a state of near shock over all this. So many questions.

We don't know the ins-and-outs of the situation as we weren't present at the time of the slaughter, but even if the YO was telling the truth about dangerous behaviour and he had to shoot it in the interests of the safety of his staff, there was no need to parade the body through the village and leave it on the front of her house - we've seen the pictures of the house, and the frontage isn't fenced off and is in full view of the public - a traumatic sight for anyone to witness, even of they're not an animal lover.

What I don't get is this - if he shot the horse using a humane killer and it died instantly, legally there's no case to answer (morally, he needs to be restrained in a public area with a report of his crime tied round his neck and left for anyone to deal with as they see fit). However, if the reports saying it WASN'T a humane killer are to be believed, there are several firearms charges they could make, the very least, discharging a firearm in a public place (I'm assuming the yard was open for any livery visiting, as some reports say that the gates were normally left unlocked). He may have held a licence for a humane killer, but some reports say a pistol was used, and I admit I'm ignorant of firearms and the law, I would have thought possession of a pistol capable of firing live ammunition of a calibre high enough to kill a horse would be highly illegal.

On the subject of paying in arrears, my yard does, and no deposit is requested before you move on. However, I appreciate this is unusual, and I know people who've had to pay a deposit and one month in advance before they were allowed to move their animal on to the yard so why did he accept the horse without payment? Odd.

Why would the YO go to the owner? His contract was with the loaner, and he may not even have been aware it wasn't her horse - not that he'd care about little things like legal ownership, since nothing I've read so far convinces me he acted within the law. I think if a potential YO said "Make sure you pay else we'll shoot the horse" to me, I'd think he was joking, specially as it doesn't seem to appear in the written contract. I mean, WTF?

RIP Kit - you didn't deserve any of this and I hope you're at peace now, wherever you are.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Surely everything/ one deserves a chance, who is to say they would not have found homes! Your sympathy seems to be fickle...maybe these ponies don't deserve the consideration given a TB

Wow that's quite the assumption you're making! As the owner of a coloured cob of unknown breeding I definitely don't think one horse's life is more valuable than another and my sympathy is far from fickle. I'm not familiar with the situation regarding the gypsy horses as there's not been much said on it but my point was regardless of breed or owner if I had the unfortunate choice of having the YO shoot my horse or sell for £50 I know which I'd choose. Yes everything does deserve a chance but we're in the middle of an equine crisis and there's no guarantee that that chance would mean the horse was better off than if it had been PTS.

 

[Clara Mo 3]

Hi, Just thought I would add my two pennies as I have read this thread with interest and I keep my horse close to this place. I know a lot of people are in too much shock to comprehend that this killing is simply over a £30 debt and think surely there must be more to this than we are hearing. Sadly, there probably isn't more to it than the small debt. The man in question (the livery owner) is renowned in this area for being a particularly evil man. In addition to the stories we have read on here, there are three others I can relate which may give you some idea as to the sort of individual he is. He once was owed some money for horse livery so he took the horse to a roundabout in thirsk and tethered it there (alive fortunately). A little odd maybe ? He fell out with an ex employee and took his farm vehicle (JCB/digger or something similar) to the guy's car which was parked outside his house and rammed it until it stood up on its end against the guy's garage wall - a little odd too I think. And he shot his daughters ponies when they decided they weren't as interested in them as they once were - surely one would remind said daughters how fortunate they were or sell the ponies.

So, shooting horses willy nilly and doing things that most of the rest of the population thinks crazy just seem to come as second nature to this individual and are not likely to stop here either if he gets away with it.

As for Cooper, well I am disappointed if he did this without having been given some convincing lies about why it needed to be done, he has looked after my pony before now and always been lovely (not the horse whispering that he does, I don't believe in it !), so this has really given me a kick up the bum with respect to him. I shan't be using either his or the livery's services again, that is for sure.

Kit's owner - I am devastated for you love, so sorry you lost her this way.

 

[blackandwhite]

Is anyone else getting fb posts asking for donations to allow the other liveries at the gg place to leave?

 

[ladyt25]

Is anyone else getting fb posts asking for donations to allow the other liveries at the gg place to leave?

Nope and why would they need donations?