Finding horse

Update nine million.

Good and bad news.

Good news, horse passed the vetting.

Bad news, a couple of findings that may be problematic.
First I'm not too worried about as he's only a baby horse - minor positive on right hind leg (2/10), most likely weakness as baby, but possibly something in joint (I'm leaning towards weakness as totally sound on all other tests and he's been turned away). Only major issue is leg would be excluded from insurance for however long until exclusion could be feed, all going well.

Second is a bit trickier. Small lesion type thing on his neck, bit scabby and new hair growth. Said could either be healed ringworm (which I'm not fussed about as healed) but could be a flat sarcoid. Vet said he had lots of experience with them and should be able to treat but could be £50 to a few hundred quid (and obviously either way skin would be excluded on insurance until whenever if they can unexclude) so potentially not great. I'm on holiday in Italy for week starting tomorrow but I'm going to ring my vet once we land to ask their opinion on it either way and what they think if it is a sarcoid. Have also asked if owner could get an opinion from their vet.

I really like this horse and he could be lovely, not sure what to do but hoping there is some way to test for healed ringworm! Might be sneaky and ask for some money off as it might be a small sarcoid.

Some thoughts would really be appreciated on any of it; it's all getting to be a bit of a palaver!
 
Sarcoid wouldn't bother me to be honest, provided small, non reactive and not in the way of tack. Loads and loads of horses have them - my last horse did, and my new mare has a small one under her stomach.
 
It's on the neck/face bit, sort of upper jawline so could be a problem with bridle if it is a sarcoid. She's sent me a picture so I'm going to forward to my vet and see what they think.

She says it's a rub from horse having headcollar on in field... So not healed ringworm or a sarcoid!
 
Have you looked on breed club pages for partbreds? Indigo stud springs to mind as Janet George often has backed and ridden away part ID four year olds in your budget.
 
I always find it interesting how different people have differents concerns/priorities.
Id not be too bothered about the lesion but would likely walk away on a 2/10th hind limb flexion on the assumption the horse was a fair sum of money
 
I think if the horse is for you to sell on, then a sarcoid may turn into a pain in the bum.

It wouldn't bother me, and I have had several horses with sarcoids, successfully treated. I would be tempted to send the picture of it to Liverpool Vets who will definitely be able to tell you whether it is a sarcoid or not.
 
Horse is just turned four and been turned away for a few months. Fully sound on all surfaces, straight, tiny circle. Most likely weakness due to age and lack of muscle and strength.

My vets won't look at the picture, but have asked me to try and get full vet history for them to look over and suggested their vet take a look and share the report. Horse is 5.5k.

That's the thing, could be a sell on if it's not the horse for getting up to high level so a sarcoid, and in that place could be difficult. I don't know a huge amount other than I try to avoid, so looking at the picture I don't know. Could be any of the three options!

I've seen a £300 dartmoor Hill pony that looks nice. 12hh ;)
 
ihatework said:
I always find it interesting how different people have differents concerns/priorities.
Id not be too bothered about the lesion but would likely walk away on a 2/10th hind limb flexion on the assumption the horse was a fair sum of money
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Ditto. A 4yr old shouldn't be 2/10 lame on any tests. Weak is one thing, but 2/10 is noticeably unlevel, so I wouldn't touch it unless it had clean xrays/scans
 
12hh pony is all of 10mins away so getting a friend to look at it if free this week as I'm in Italy. If not I'll go see it when I get back.

I just don't know about the PRE. I'm always a little dubious about flexion tests especially when I'm not there, as there's no hard and fast rule about how long or high you hold the legs. And being a baby I'm pretty sure it's going to be a weakness thing.

A friend sent me details of a friend of hers horse who is being sold. It is over budget but by God can it jump. And got a decent set of paces. Reminds me I need to bug about getting walk video. She said they might come down with the price...
 
If it is a sarcoid I would be asking for a reduction in price based on the cost of treatment. Presumably if it passed the vetting, the vet feels like the unlevel-ness won't be an issue for your aspirations so wouldn't hugely bother me. Could also ask for a discount - I got my last one for half price as he had just passed a vetting with the proviso that his feet were uneven. Never affected him and at 6 he is now competing at medium with his new owner.

Tbh though you don't sound hugely enthused about the horse to begin with so I would probably give it a miss - it would have to be something I really loved or an absolute bargain for me to take the chance.
 
I've stopped being enthused about anything I think. Just so convinced that there will be something wrong and then find out there is, either pre vetting (yay not spending money!) or post vetting.

I do like the look of PREs so trying very hard not to let how pretty he is cloud my judgement!

I'm getting despondent in my search. I have just seen a nice looking 6yr old mare by Sir Donnerhall (I adore donnerhall lines) and the video of it is a jumping video, the guy selling it is a SJ so I can only guess has no idea about Sir D. as horse is 4.2k. So there's either something horribly wrong with it, or bargain of the week! No walk or trot or decent conformation shots so the decent canter may hide a tonne of sins. ;) see my scepticism!?

If the dartmoor is nice in person I might get it sans vetting, reback it, bring it on and find it a lovely little person. Would keep me occupied until I can find a nice competition horse.

Oh if only I'd had the 18k for my friends gorgeous, wonderfully expressive 3yr old KWPN!
 
I found a stunning PRE stallion for sale recently and it took all my willpower not to call them - they are lovely looking horses.

Given that you haven't fallen desperately in love with this horse, I would give it a miss unless they will reduce the price enough for you to take the risk. If you really loved him and loved riding him it may be worth having further scans for peace of mind and for insurance purposes.

If I had 18k the horse search would be a delight!

ETA: I also love Donnerhall - can you go to see that one before deciding on the PRE?
 
I'm waiting vet reports and second opinion on the lesion for the PRE.

I've contacted the guy but not heard back yet. I just can't understand the price he wants. Unless the Sir D is a mistake?

Friends friends horse is now sold.

But friend has a couple of baby horses due at her yard that might work.

All of this has happened since last update post. So my frustration is fully visible.

PREs are very beautiful, and I think that might be some of the pressure from my non horsey mother who is topping up the budget to be part owner. She thinks I should get him regardless. *Sigh*

It's a nightmare. If only the budget was 18k we'd all be swimming in wonderful horses!
 
As its a possible horse to sell on I wouldnt touch it with someone elses bargepole. People are split over sarcoids, but at least 50% of people wouldnt even consider one who had or had had one, which will impact on your future selling ability. The failed flexion is probably nothing, but is another thing that might come back to bite you on the bum. Then take into consideration that its a PRE and another whole boat load of people wouldnt want one as an expensive dressage horse

If you have one eye on a future sale then you need to give yourself the best chance of that, and it doesn't sound like this horse is that. I'd hang fire and look for the stereotypical warmblood gelding that most people are looking for as a high level dressage horse
 
Horsequest dressage youngstock ref 152376

impossible to comment on confo from that picture, but worth a request for pictures ?
 
Kylara said:
I've stopped being enthused about anything I think. Just so convinced that there will be something wrong and then find out there is, either pre vetting (yay not spending money!) or post vetting.

I do like the look of PREs so trying very hard not to let how pretty he is cloud my judgement!

I'm getting despondent in my search. I have just seen a nice looking 6yr old mare by Sir Donnerhall (I adore donnerhall lines) and the video of it is a jumping video, the guy selling it is a SJ so I can only guess has no idea about Sir D. as horse is 4.2k. So there's either something horribly wrong with it, or bargain of the week! No walk or trot or decent conformation shots so the decent canter may hide a tonne of sins. ;) see my scepticism!?

If the dartmoor is nice in person I might get it sans vetting, reback it, bring it on and find it a lovely little person. Would keep me occupied until I can find a nice competition horse.

Oh if only I'd had the 18k for my friends gorgeous, wonderfully expressive 3yr old KWPN!
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Is the 6yo called Lily by any chance? If so I viewed her a couple of months ago and found her to be incredibly hot and her feet looked a bit odd if I recall correctly. Think she was up for £6k at the time though.
 
It is yes. How very strange. Down from 6 to 4.2...hmmm

Frieed sent a loose trot video of the broken 3 year old coming from Holland. Looks quite nice. Shell get some video and pics for me when it arrives.

Nothing from the owner of the PRE. Think I may try to ring mother and have another chat, not sure she fully understands the while possible sarcoid thing and how problematic it could be. Hoping my friend is around to go see the dartmoor. Looks decent for turning into kiddy pony.

That one on HQ looks nice enough to ask for picture and video so will do that when I have access to a computer.

Tempted to get in contact with the sec A breeder we got our driving ponies from and grab one out the field ;)
 
Kylara said:
It is yes. How very strange. Down from 6 to 4.2...hmmm

Frieed sent a loose trot video of the broken 3 year old coming from Holland. Looks quite nice. Shell get some video and pics for me when it arrives.

Nothing from the owner of the PRE. Think I may try to ring mother and have another chat, not sure she fully understands the while possible sarcoid thing and how problematic it could be. Hoping my friend is around to go see the dartmoor. Looks decent for turning into kiddy pony.

That one on HQ looks nice enough to ask for picture and video so will do that when I have access to a computer.

Tempted to get in contact with the sec A breeder we got our driving ponies from and grab one out the field ;)
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Don't despair, you will find something eventually. Remember HHO has a communal carthorse, you can borrow him if you get bored waiting for your dream horse to come along. He comes with a picnic and his own suitcase.

DSCF2334_zpsfv9hnemg.jpg
 
Friend is going to look at the dartmoor for me. I've been looking at sec A studs that are local.

Seen a loose video of KWPN that is coming and looks nice, fresh video will come when he arrives.

All so frustrating and people not responding to emails is driving me crazy. Half of the time there is no other option than email so I'm a bit miffed.

It's getting to the point that I'm convinced the horse world is hiding all the nice ones from me
 
Decided against the PRE after chatting to mother about the whole sarcoid thing. Finally understands how much of an issue they can be!

Horse will hopefully be something I will keep and get up as high as possible in dressage but if after 6 months turns out to be not as capable/not the horse for me then I will sell on and try again, so the potential selling on problems if he didn't work out are just too difficult.

If the darty is nice I'll take it on and keep looking for my dressage horse! I do enjoy working with the little ponies so that's an added bonus :) however as he is unregistered I'm going to have to take a look at what showing classes I can do! I only really do M&M related classes or WHP!
 
Update gazillion and two

Been looking. Not much about.

Had a chat to my friend who has the gelding by Krack C about one of her others (way over budget but now sold) and pot to chatting about the lovely gelding I looked at who failed the vetting. He's had rebalanced feet, new angles and Dutch wide web shoes and is perfectly sound. Her vet thinks he's doing great and will be sound for ages. She went mental at everyone about the xrays! Haha, but spent ages talking to vets etc who think he'll be OK. Apparently vet said nothing about flexion tests at the time and he trotted up sound after each test, and the front forelegs lameness vet said was left was mentioned on the right circle, so not too sure what happened there! Vetting vet not one we know well but not a huge amount of choice in the area!
He is really lovely and she's said I can have him at 4k if I like because we're friends, but he's not for sale to anyone else and she'll keep him and compete him herself until he has to be pls for whatever reason in his hopefully distant future, so no pressure at all. Not on any meds for the navicular at all either. I'm incredibly tempted as he's in full work at the minute with no problems, he's sound, has the new shoes, and her vet thinks he'll be fine for ages yet. He's just learned his changes in one session!

I think the terrible navicular really would already be showing the lameness but he's totally sound so leaning towards it not being a problem for a while and if it does hopefully a few years and can start on bute/whatever.

Insuring at 4k wouldn't be too hard either as xrays not needed ;)
 
Kylara said:
Update gazillion and two

Been looking. Not much about.

Had a chat to my friend who has the gelding by Krack C about one of her others (way over budget but now sold) and pot to chatting about the lovely gelding I looked at who failed the vetting. He's had rebalanced feet, new angles and Dutch wide web shoes and is perfectly sound. Her vet thinks he's doing great and will be sound for ages. She went mental at everyone about the xrays! Haha, but spent ages talking to vets etc who think he'll be OK. Apparently vet said nothing about flexion tests at the time and he trotted up sound after each test, and the front forelegs lameness vet said was left was mentioned on the right circle, so not too sure what happened there! Vetting vet not one we know well but not a huge amount of choice in the area!
He is really lovely and she's said I can have him at 4k if I like because we're friends, but he's not for sale to anyone else and she'll keep him and compete him herself until he has to be pls for whatever reason in his hopefully distant future, so no pressure at all. Not on any meds for the navicular at all either. I'm incredibly tempted as he's in full work at the minute with no problems, he's sound, has the new shoes, and her vet thinks he'll be fine for ages yet. He's just learned his changes in one session!

I think the terrible navicular really would already be showing the lameness but he's totally sound so leaning towards it not being a problem for a while and if it does hopefully a few years and can start on bute/whatever.

Insuring at 4k wouldn't be too hard either as xrays not needed ;)
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Insurance companies have ways of checking with earlier vets. I lost a horse with navicular at 8 years old , many years ago. At 500 quid as a hacker I may give a chance but not as a competition horse or a resale prospect.
 
Sounds very frustrating for you! Have you tried Brendon stud which is just outside Brighton? They are mostly sj bred but had a lesson on one of my friends horses from there recently and she was lush was like sitting on the equivalent of a Ferrari very nice moving. I also didn't feel at all small on her as I'm 5'2" with short stumpy legs and she is about 16.2hh. She's had a few from there and they all seem nice "people" as well. Would certainly look there if I ever win the lottery I'm not sure how much they go for but I think she has said before they sometimes do clearance sales.
 
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Kylara said:
Update gazillion and two

Been looking. Not much about.

Had a chat to my friend who has the gelding by Krack C about one of her others (way over budget but now sold) and pot to chatting about the lovely gelding I looked at who failed the vetting. He's had rebalanced feet, new angles and Dutch wide web shoes and is perfectly sound. Her vet thinks he's doing great and will be sound for ages. She went mental at everyone about the xrays! Haha, but spent ages talking to vets etc who think he'll be OK. Apparently vet said nothing about flexion tests at the time and he trotted up sound after each test, and the front forelegs lameness vet said was left was mentioned on the right circle, so not too sure what happened there! Vetting vet not one we know well but not a huge amount of choice in the area!
He is really lovely and she's said I can have him at 4k if I like because we're friends, but he's not for sale to anyone else and she'll keep him and compete him herself until he has to be pls for whatever reason in his hopefully distant future, so no pressure at all. Not on any meds for the navicular at all either. I'm incredibly tempted as he's in full work at the minute with no problems, he's sound, has the new shoes, and her vet thinks he'll be fine for ages yet. He's just learned his changes in one session!

I think the terrible navicular really would already be showing the lameness but he's totally sound so leaning towards it not being a problem for a while and if it does hopefully a few years and can start on bute/whatever.

Insuring at 4k wouldn't be too hard either as xrays not needed ;)
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Go back and read what you wrote at the time that he failed the vet! This is not a horse who is going to stand up to the work you want him to do, and 4k is far too much money for a horse which already has changes to the navicular bone at a young age. His breeding may appear to justify the price, but he's a gelding, so his bloodlines are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
He may well last a few years before he starts showing problems, but it is inevitable, and however many years training you have put into him will be wasted. You can't compete a horse on bute, and nor is it ethical to do so.
Do yourself a favour, and get something sound!

I have an unsound PSG horse - it's a heartbreaking, frustrating, and expensive game.
 
Auslander said:
Go back and read what you wrote at the time that he failed the vet! This is not a horse who is going to stand up to the work you want him to do, and 4k is far too much money for a horse which already has changes to the navicular bone at a young age. His breeding may appear to justify the price, but he's a gelding, so his bloodlines are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
He may well last a few years before he starts showing problems, but it is inevitable, and however many years training you have put into him will be wasted. You can't compete a horse on bute, and nor is it ethical to do so.
Do yourself a favour, and get something sound!

I have an unsound PSG horse - it's a heartbreaking, frustrating, and expensive game.
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^^^^^^^What she said ^^^^^^
 
Me three! Too much risk and potential bother, let alone the cost. Navi is degenerative and at that age I'd steer well clear I'm afraid. Ins company could well discount for prior history even without x Ray's.
 
Insurance companies ask for the passport so they can check which vets have done vaccinations, so they can check full medical history in a lot of cases
 
I'd obviously tell insurance, but xrays wouldn't be a requirement for insurance, and there is no history of anything as he has never been lame and shoes were swapped back after my vetting picked up the minor lame on circle and he isn't lame at all under saddle.

It's just that if he didn't have the xrays you'd have no idea as he's perfectly sound. And even before it was only minor lameness on circle that's been fixed by going back to Dutch wide web shoes.

He wouldn't be a sell on prospect but a keep going until he needed retirement or pts (plenty of space for that) as he easily has the capacity for adv med - could probably go out med now. :/

It's very tempting as he is seriously lovely. I might have a chat with my vet and see what they think. I've not seen a horse half as nice either.
 
Kylara said:
I'd obviously tell insurance, but xrays wouldn't be a requirement for insurance, and there is no history of anything as he has never been lame and shoes were swapped back after my vetting picked up the minor lame on circle and he isn't lame at all under saddle.

It's just that if he didn't have the xrays you'd have no idea as he's perfectly sound. And even before it was only minor lameness on circle that's been fixed by going back to Dutch wide web shoes.

He wouldn't be a sell on prospect but a keep going until he needed retirement or pts (plenty of space for that) as he easily has the capacity for adv med - could probably go out med now. :/

It's very tempting as he is seriously lovely. I might have a chat with my vet and see what they think. I've not seen a horse half as nice either.
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I'm with the others, I really wouldn't take the risk! It's true you might get away with it, but you might also be buying yourself years of problems. My sister has a gelding with navicular and in the 7+ years that we have owned him he was in full work for 18 months, at the very beginning. That is it. Since then he has been through the whole process of remedial shoeing, tildren, barefoot rehab etc. He is now sound enough for hacking and a bit of light schooling, but he will never manage more than that. If it hadn't been for the barefoot rehab he probably would have been PTS. My advice if don't take the risk.
 
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