Foxhounds at Crufts

[Binkle&Flip]

Not a short memory thankfully. Simply a greater understanding of the situation since that time.

 

[rosie fronfelen]

Not a short memory thankfully. Simply a greater understanding of the situation since that time.

aye, such a long time ago-9 days?

 

[Binkle&Flip]

A long time in forum politics

 

[avthechav]

The Best of Breed Foxhound at Cruft's this year is Dazzleby Dandelion, and she is owned, handled and bred by me, and if the pack responsible for letting me use their stallion hound on my bitch had their choice, she would have been hunting with their pack. It was quite evident from a very young age that this hound was destined to become a star. She has already had numerous awards, and is highly regarded in knowledgeable circles. She is a beautiful, elegant and correct hound. It is rather sad that some on this forum dismiss her so callously, when knowing nothing of her breeding or background.

I have been striving for many years to promote both Foxhounds and Foxhunting both in the UK and in Europe.

Incidently, Dandelion is by the Duke of Beaufort's Milton, and she would hunt for England if you let her.

Hi Dazzleby- thats so much for posting. That is really interesting and puts my mind at rest that yes in fact there is a direct link between hunting and the foxhound showing!..as for dismissing your hound, I yet again will just say that I know nothing, I was simply observing the differences btwn your bitch and thh hounds from my local hunt!- however as the poster from the foxhound rehoming association pointed out the difference that my untrained eye are seeing are likely to be due to individual blood lines favoured with particular hunts.

So was the other poster correct in saying that your breeding bitch was imported from abroad?...and also DO the KC recognise all hunt bred hounds, as someone suggested that they may not?

Many congratulations on your weekend it sounds like you had a well deserving successful outing!

...and I love the poster who suggested that I may not have actually been looking at a fox hound hahahaha, I may be idle and ignorant but I can read the legend on the bottom of the screen as well as having hunted...well at least a few times!

 

[EAST KENT]

Then let the poor bitch hunt for Lordy`s sake!

 

[muffinino]

As an aside, why are foxhounds ineligible for CCs at Crufts or other dog shows? Is it because they also have hound shows? It was mentioned that they cannot become Champions but not why. Genuine question, please don't flame me!

 

[EAST KENT]

There is not enough interest in them to have gained enough numbers involved in showing them at KC shows,simply. Most times I have looked at a catalogue and it has been one or two per class,you need to generate a lot more than that to get the KC to issue Challenge Certificates for a breed.
Maybe also the KC consider they have their own shows and indeed are a different world to show dogs, just as most hunting people would think as well.

 

[muffinino]

Thank you for replying, EK, it was bugging me

 

[Dazzleby]

I have posted images of some of my hounds in action in the photo section. Two of the pics show the remarkable action of the foxhound at full stretch, and were taken during a visit to Holland. Incidently Daresbury's full brother Darkwood has been used on a number of occasions, as his is an outstanding hunting hound, and his progeny can be seen in the hunting field. Daresbury although he is now 8yrs old put up a very fine performance at Cruft's and gained Reserve Best Dog to my young doghound by Milton.

Daresbury has had the most amazing life, not only has he hunted for several seasons, he has travelled through Europe on many occasions, and in 2006 we visited Poland staying for 5 days to compete at The World Show in Poznan. He was shortlisited down to the final Best 10 scent hounds in the world. He adores his life, and has been a great ambassador for the breed.

This is Dazzleby Foxhounds showing the world how great the Foxhound is.

 

[mad4foxhounds]

you will find that part of the main reason for the Kennel club not awarding our breed CC's is the fact it comes down to money...over seas kennel clubs able you and your hound to win equivalent to CCs. and there are even less out side of uk being shown, with maybe apart from Australia.
yes many foxhounds are on the mfha stud book ect, but the true breeders and enthusiasts do believe this breed shouldnt be over bred, and that the breed has been top secret for years, those who are able to gain a foxhound trust and love are rewarded, and those that cant tell people the breed is thick and can only do one thing, happily i have proved these people wrong with more than one hound, in more than one times,

 

[Alec Swan]

I wonder if there will be those who would agree with me, when I say that the Show Bench, en masse, are responsible for the bulk of the damage done to the bulk of our breeds.

I've always assumed, obviously wrongly, that disciplined Masters have refused to allow their hounds to be used, outside of hunting. They seem to have found their way to Crufts.

I also wonder Dazzleby, if in 10 years, or less, when we see hounds and probably in haute couture couples, being paraded around Knightsbridge, by those who would require the right accessaries, then you may just realise the damage which you are doing.

They're hounds. They aren't pets. They're going to be sort out by those who have no possible comprehension of the canine mind, or worse still, that of the hound.

Have you plans to sell on the puppies which you produce? If you're linked up to showing, then presumably you will. I understand that you'll be super selective, when it comes to deciding who may be eligible to have one of your pups, but the problem will come, when your selected customer, decides that money matters, and there is a flood of unsuitable puppies being sold to unsuitable owners.

It may be that I've completely missed the concept of the Foxhound and Crufts. I will be more than happy to be corrected.

Alec.

 

[JanetGeorge]

I wonder if there will be those who would agree with me, when I say that the Show Bench, en masse, are responsible for the bulk of the damage done to the bulk of our breeds.

I've always assumed, obviously wrongly, that disciplined Masters have refused to allow their hounds to be used, outside of hunting. They seem to have found their way to Crufts.

I'd agree with you 100%! And I'd go further - the Kennel Club wants shooting, en masse, for what they've ALLOWED to happen to many breeds!

I believe that the original 'show' foxhounds (and the ones I've seen couldn't catch a cold!) originated from Australia (and presumably were rejects from the packs they were in originally!) Australian foxhounds originally came from the UK, of course, and hounds have been exported by some very 'respectable' hunts here to Australian packs.

What happened after then ......

I had little to do with foxhunting in Australia - I was more into showjumping and eventing in my youth - but one pack (which will remain nameless) I DID see a bit of and frankly, they were the most ghastly lot of ill-disciplined hounds I have EVER seen - with a huntsman who didn't have a CLUE about pack control!

I would shudder if any 'pet' foxhounds came from THAT pack!

 

[JanetGeorge]

They're hounds. They aren't pets. They're going to be sort out by those who have no possible comprehension of the canine mind, or worse still, that of the hound.

On THAT point, I have a 'pet' foxhound - or rather a foxhound cross Lab (or as a friend described it, Fetch & Destroy!) Before I got her, she had been re-homed 5 times!!! She came from the Manchester area and I would guess she was the result of a liaison between a Lab bitch and a wandering Fell hound!

She had 'issues' - still does! A couple of years ago I saw a picture of a dog I believe was from the same litter - right age and location - and in the hands of the RSPCA. At least two dogs - from the same litter - in rescue situations! That suggests something!!

 

[Maesfen]

I so agree with both Janet and Alec.
Hounds are beautiful, intelligent animals but they do not deserve to languish as pets or show dogs, they should be doing what they have been bred for, for hundreds of years. I do have to wonder what the Masters (who I know of quite well) were thinking of letting a pet/show hound be mated to one of their stallion hounds, but then again, knowing them, perhaps I shouldn't be surprised.

 

[EAST KENT]

Completely agree with you..and I show my mini bull terriers extensively at Champ Shows too. BUT,the Foxhound is NOT a pet dog suitable for a show dog existence,my hounds that were walked here all needed more to life than an ordinary home could provide..they needed ,by nine months, to stretch their minds and bodies.
As for "gaining a foxhounds trust"...none of mine were the least bit distrustful and were great friends,yes I was Boss .till huntsman took over,but certainly I had their trust.

 

[rosie fronfelen]

I totally agree with all these views- Foxhounds have their festival at Peterborough and Builth in Wales,Crufts is not the place for them at all, i dread to think what our small hairies would think of it all, all they want to do is hit the hills and hunt.

 

[Fiagai]

I do believe there is a problem with working breeds versus Pets. Many traditional working dogs were bred for a temperament suited to work. The spectrum ranges from traditional hunting, herding to hunting dogs. As breeds these animals were never destined to be domestic pets. While there will always be the exception of individual animals, expecting these breeds to conform to pet standards is a potential recipe for a unhappy animal and in the case such as traditional fighting dogs placed in a domestic situation completly irresponsible and dangerous.

 

[Dazzleby]

I am very interested by all your replies.

I am very interested by the picture posted by Janetgeorge, your pet foxhound x is grossly obese, so I would say you are definitely not the type of person suited to an active canine.

I do not breed to sell to the pet market. I do not seek to make money from Foxhounds or any other breed for that matter.

The Foxhound breed standard was incorrect, and I had it changed, the KC were perfectly helpful.

It is down to individual breeders on choice of matings how they influence breeds.

Just because I do not bear the title MFH or Huntsman, does not mean that I cannot produce good, sound hounds capable of work in many spheres.

I was certainly good enough when hunts wanted me to walk and whelp their puppies and bitches, and all at my expense. I find it most amusing that apparently once these hounds reach a year old us mere mortals are not good enough for hounds!!!

Perhaps one thing that UK hunts should bear in mind, that the current system of using Ireland as a dustbin for their discarded hounds is a VERY poor idea. Many of these unfortunate hounds end up in rescue pounds in a very sorry state indeed.

My Foxhounds enjoy a VERY high standard of living, which is why they always look so happy and well and perform brilliantly whatever the occasion.

I repeat Dazzleby Foxhoundsseeks to promote Foxhounds and hunting both in the UK and Europe.

 

[EAST KENT]

Maybe so..but the poor things are deprived of doing and living as they are meant to. The very last thing any hunting people want to see is this breed in pet homes,it is by showing them at "cur dog" shows that this will happen.And..BTW ..do not be rude to someone as eminent and respected as Mrs George

 

[reindeerlover]

I find it amazing that the same people who say that ex racehorses can be trained to do anything are now saying that an intelligent dog cannot do anything but hunt in a pack! It may not be a dog for just anyone but I'm pretty sure that most people who would want one are capable of keeping it in a healthy condition. This is not something that can always be said of people with terriers or collies- they don't HAVE to work but they do HAVE to be stimulated and exercised, how is this any different?

In Ireland there are many foxhounds who are in "pet" homes, having come from the hunt as not good enough or retired. They are kept on farms/yards etc rather than flats and they seem to have adapted rather well. Much preferable to being shot in the head and dumped on the muckheap I'd have thought.

 

[Alec Swan]

....... It may not be a dog for just anyone.......

You're right there. They aren't dogs, they're hounds and there's a world of difference. If you fail to grasp that point, then you cannot but fail to understand.

Perhaps those hounds which fail, could be retrained as Guide Dogs for the Blind.

Alec.

 

[rosie fronfelen]

SL, you mightb chuck you shot fox hounds on the muck heap in Ireland but here we bury them, with a certain amount of respect.

 

[reindeerlover]

You're right there. They aren't dogs, they're hounds and there's a world of difference. If you fail to grasp that point, then you cannot but fail to understand.

Perhaps those hounds which fail, could be retrained as Guide Dogs for the Blind.

Alec.

That's right, hounds. Like wolfhounds, greyhounds, deerhounds...... all types of dog. Bred for one purpose but slotting nicely into lots of different purposes. Thanks for the heads up on that one Alec

 

[reindeerlover]

SL, you mightb chuck you shot fox hounds on the muck heap in Ireland but here we bury them, with a certain amount of respect.

Well, I'm sure that makes all the difference.

 

[xspiralx]

Maybe so..but the poor things are deprived of doing and living as they are meant to. The very last thing any hunting people want to see is this breed in pet homes,it is by showing them at "cur dog" shows that this will happen.And..BTW ..do not be rude to someone as eminent and respected as Mrs George

Dazzleby is being far less rude than most of the other posters on this thread, yourself included.

Her foxhounds look happy and healthy, in excellent weight and condition. Any working dog, as farrierlover points out, needs plenty of exercise and stimulation, but it absolutely does not mean that can be found in one job or activity alone.

 

[EAST KENT]

You're right there. They aren't dogs, they're hounds and there's a world of difference. If you fail to grasp that point, then you cannot but fail to understand.

Perhaps those hounds which fail, could be retrained as Guide Dogs for the Blind.

Alec.

Could be an extremely interesting guide for any blind person

 

[Alec Swan]

That's right, hounds. Like wolfhounds, greyhounds, deerhounds...... all types of dog. Bred for one purpose but slotting nicely into lots of different purposes. Thanks for the heads up on that one Alec

It's a pleasure to be of help. None of the hounds which you've mentioned live on benches, and as a pack. There's a world of difference. Perhaps we will only have to wait for 10-20 generations, to see Foxhounds which have replicated the embarrassment which both the modern Deerhound and the Wolfhound have become.

Sad days, and you're wrong.

Alec.

 

[Alec Swan]

Could be an extremely interesting guide for any blind person

Providing, that is, that Charlie doesn't decide to use the zebra crossing, at the same time!!

Alec.

 

[Fiagai]

Providing, that is, that Charlie doesn't decide to use the zebra crossing, at the same time!!

Remins me of the "story" of Lucky....

"A Dog Called 'Lucky'!" - Europa Times, October 1993.

"We will not have him put down. Lucky is basically a damn good guide dog," Ernst Gerber, a dog trainer from Wuppertal told reporters. "He just needs a little brush-up on some elementary skills, that's all." Gerber admitted to the press conference that Lucky, a German shepherd guide-dog for the blind, had so far been responsible for the deaths of all four of his previous owners. "I admit it's not an impressive record on paper. He led his first owner in front of a bus, and the second off the end of a pier. He actually pushed his third owner off a railway platform just as the Cologne to Frankfurt express was approaching and he walked his fourth owner into heavy traffic, before abandoning him and running away to safety. But, apart from epileptic fits, he has a lovely temperament. And guide dogs are difficult to train these days." Asked if Lucky's fifth owner would be told about his previous record, Gerber replied: "No. It would make them nervous, and would make Lucky nervous. And when Lucky gets nervous he's liable to do something silly."

 

[Alec Swan]

Dazzleby is being far less rude than most of the other posters on this thread, yourself included.

Her foxhounds look happy and healthy, in excellent weight and condition. Any working dog, as farrierlover points out, needs plenty of exercise and stimulation, but it absolutely does not mean that can be found in one job or activity alone.

I'm sorry to have to contradict you, but I would think that Mrs. George has a far better understanding of the requirements of a Foxhound, than does Dazzleby.

Could you perhaps explain to me, just how you offer "stimulation" to a Foxhound, which is denied its natural existence? Agility tests, perhaps, or maybe obedience tests.

I'm also wondering just what the Master Of Foxhounds Association have to say about this.

Alec.

Ets. Fiagai, very funny!! a.