Helgstrand…

[Goldenstar]

OMG I thought that attitude had gone out years ago .
I would have flipped him over is she mad or is it so long since she has ridden she forgotten what it’s like,and steam coming out of my ears now my favorite beef just correction that’s that’s wrong no advice on how to improve things .

 

[shortstuff99]

If anyone things the documentary on Helgstrand may have harmed his credibility or top riders would want to distance themselves the answer is no

Isabell Werth Masterclass at Helgstrand USA: "As Much as Necessary, As Less as Possible"

It’s not a secret that I’m a total Isabell Werth’s fan and I had the chance to watch her one more time in a free Masterclass at the beautiful Windsome Farm of Helgstrand Dressage USA in Wellington, Florida, on 29 January 2024.

eurodressage.com

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Where has this whole thing gone? He got a ban for a year, but I have not heard (and admit, haven't massively looked for) any criminal prosecution intentions? Sponsors dropping him? Clients leaving him? It feels like he's gotten a slap on the wrist and everyone is now carrying on with their lives as normal.

And Isabel's comment re: Helgstrand's 'controversy' is 'mistakes need to be corrected' - it wasn't a mistake, it was the systemic horrific abuse of hundreds of horses over many years. Why is the industry making it so obvious they just aren't unsurprised by all of this?!

Just finished reading the article.. utterly disgusting. I didn't know Isabell was 'one of them'

 

[reynold]

Ludger - another one with questions to answer and a direct association with Helgstrand as both setups have the same parent company.

 

[Nicnac]

Disappointing. Jewellery vs. morals.

 

[ycbm]

Where has this whole thing gone? He got a ban for a year, but I have not heard (and admit, haven't massively looked for) any criminal prosecution intentions? Sponsors dropping him? Clients leaving him? It feels like he's gotten a slap on the wrist and everyone is now carrying on with their lives as normal.

And Isabel's comment re: Helgstrand's 'controversy' is 'mistakes need to be corrected' - it wasn't a mistake, it was the systemic horrific abuse of hundreds of horses over many years. Why is the industry making it so obvious they just aren't unsurprised by all of this?!

Just finished reading the article.. utterly disgusting. I didn't know Isabell was 'one of them'

View attachment 133295

If this is how people at the top are going to react, they will hasten the end, and deserve the end, of their sport. What an outrageous response to systematic horse abuse.
.

 

[millitiger]

Absolutely appalling that Isobell Werth was happy to be used as some sort of prop for Helgstrand and the fact he was there to compere it himself... It blows my mind that nearly 1,000 people attended.
People so easily swayed by a free burger!

The videos of the day don't look too hot either-

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Utterly depressing.

 

[Rowreach]

If this is how people at the top are going to react, they will hasten the end, and deserve the end, of their sport. What an outrageous response to systematic horse abuse.
.

It's a bit like the hunting thing, so much arrogance and disregard for justified criticism and questioning, and bam, it will be gone, and they have only themselves to blame.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

Utterly depressing.

Snap! Was literally just typing 'it's all just so depressing'.

Positive change in horse sports does not seem likely to come from the top.

 

[millitiger]

Just finished reading the article.. utterly disgusting. I didn't know Isabell was 'one of them'

I'm pretty sure her nickname was Queen of Rollkur...

 

[Rowreach]

Utterly depressing.

I read it early this morning and it genuinely blighted my day. Although I did coach a couple of people today who have horses which have been ridden a certain way by previous people, and it was a joy to have them going softer, freer and more forward, and to have conversations with riders who genuinely want to achieve this.

 

[I'm Dun]

If they had released the documentary in English it would have gained a lot more traction. I think most of the impact was lost by only small clips being shown. It allowed people to keep their head in the sand.

 

[ester]

and another out the woodwork, suspended

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An FEI spokesman told H&H dressage rider Cesar Parra has been “immediately provisionally suspended while the FEI investigates the disturbing and abhorrent images and videos in relation to his training techniques that have recently emerged”.

“Equestrian sport is built on a foundation of respect for our equine partners, with a duty of care to ensure their mental and physical wellbeing comes first, ahead of all competition and/or training ambitions,” the spokesman said.

“Through the FEI’s rules and regulations, the welfare of the horse, and any action or omission which causes or is likely to cause pain or unnecessary discomfort to a horse constitutes a violation of our rules and will be sanctioned. The FEI remains resolute in its commitment to upholding the highest standards of equine welfare and sanctioning behaviour which deviates from these principles, and will be actively investigating this case as a matter of urgency.

“As this is an open investigation, no further comment will be provided in relation to the alleged offences while the investigation is ongoing. The FEI is also collaborating and liaising with US Equestrian and the FEI’s provisional suspension and any subsequent sanctions will be recognised at the national level.”

 

[Nicnac]

and another out the woodwork, suspended

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Just read this on H&H - USEF seem to be more accountable than other country's national feds. Strange that the NL have banned bandages etc. but still seem to be blind to some of the ongoing practices.

 

[Surbie]

and another out the woodwork, suspended

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An FEI spokesman told H&H dressage rider Cesar Parra has been “immediately provisionally suspended while the FEI investigates the disturbing and abhorrent images and videos in relation to his training techniques that have recently emerged”.

“Equestrian sport is built on a foundation of respect for our equine partners, with a duty of care to ensure their mental and physical wellbeing comes first, ahead of all competition and/or training ambitions,” the spokesman said.

“Through the FEI’s rules and regulations, the welfare of the horse, and any action or omission which causes or is likely to cause pain or unnecessary discomfort to a horse constitutes a violation of our rules and will be sanctioned. The FEI remains resolute in its commitment to upholding the highest standards of equine welfare and sanctioning behaviour which deviates from these principles, and will be actively investigating this case as a matter of urgency.

“As this is an open investigation, no further comment will be provided in relation to the alleged offences while the investigation is ongoing. The FEI is also collaborating and liaising with US Equestrian and the FEI’s provisional suspension and any subsequent sanctions will be recognised at the national level.”

Those videos are, in equal parts, horrifying and heartbreaking.

 

[humblepie]

Awful how the horses’ heads are tied down.

 

[splashgirl45]

I just can’t watch any more of these videos, depressing and very sad for these willing animals

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Just read this on H&H - USEF seem to be more accountable than other country's national feds. Strange that the NL have banned bandages etc. but still seem to be blind to some of the ongoing practices.

I was going to comment on the thread that was posted that the bandages thing was just 'greenwashing' considering the things they turn a blind eye to

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Just read this on H&H - USEF seem to be more accountable than other country's national feds. Strange that the NL have banned bandages etc. but still seem to be blind to some of the ongoing practices.

Yeah, I was sort of like, really? Of all of the things you're narrowing in on bandages? I mean, ok, but...



I'm not a bandage fan, and it's not that I don't agree with the ban, btw.

 

[lizziebell]

Where has this whole thing gone? He got a ban for a year, but I have not heard (and admit, haven't massively looked for) any criminal prosecution intentions? Sponsors dropping him? Clients leaving him? It feels like he's gotten a slap on the wrist and everyone is now carrying on with their lives as normal.

And Isabel's comment re: Helgstrand's 'controversy' is 'mistakes need to be corrected' - it wasn't a mistake, it was the systemic horrific abuse of hundreds of horses over many years. Why is the industry making it so obvious they just aren't unsurprised by all of this?!

Just finished reading the article.. utterly disgusting. I didn't know Isabell was 'one of them'

View attachment 133295

Good lord - Ludger Beerbaum !!! Another known for unsavoury training methods going back decades !

 

[Chianti]

I'd like to get that whip and repeatedly flick it across his backside and see how he likes it. I really think that competitive dressage is digging its own grave.

 

[Grassy]

Many years ago I worked for a supplement company & travelled round to yards selling & delivering the supplements. At a very posh, top dressage yard a “piaffe clinic” was taking place in the indoor school. Some dressage chap, who apparently was famous, was prancing about behind the horses tapping & flicking them with a long whip while everyone oohed & aahed, I felt very uncomfortable & thought the horses all looked stressed, the (very) rich owners all thought it was marvellous. I dropped off their order & politely said goodbye, they asked me if I would like to stay & watch & were quite affronted when I declined, kind of amazed that anyone would pass up this opportunity to gaze in wonder at this bloke prancing about with a long whip. It’s always stayed with me & was nowhere near on the scale of these videos, but I clearly remember feeling awkward & very uncomfortable like it was wrong.

 

[skydy]

I didn't realize, before I posted the Cesar Parra nightmare on the Equestrian News forum , that the topic was being discussed here.
There are links and updates on the post on that forum if anyone is interested.

 

[ycbm]

I've never been a ecstatic about classical training methods as other people seem to be. People like the Spanish Riding School teach the advanced moves by tying horses to pillars. That doesn't seem a whole lot different to me than holding on to the head with hands, other than that hands can let go and pillars won't. Its difficult to find pictures of any early training and this is a horse who has already learnt the impossibility of trying to escape the pillars. Of course horses know they can fight hands so probably take longer to submit to learned helplessness than they do to pillars. But is this really the pinnacle of horse training?

 

[Cortez]

I've never been a ecstatic about classical training methods as other people seem to be. People like the Spanish Riding School teach the advanced moves by tying horses to pillars. That doesn't seem a whole lot different to me than holding on to the head with hands, other than that hands can let go and pillars won't. Its difficult to find pictures of any early training and this is a horse who has already learnt the impossibility of trying to escape the pillars. Of course horses know they can fight hands so probably take longer to submit to learned helplessness than they do to pillars. But is this really the pinnacle of horse training?

View attachment 133496

At the risk of joining the “you don’t know what you’re talking about” gang, I have experience of training in pillars, both in Austria and in Spain, and it absolutely does NOT consist of tying a horse to a pole and hitting it, which is what I think you are getting at.

ETA that picture is not of the SRS, and is a rather poor example of a horse in pillars.

 

[ycbm]

I never mentioned hitting aything.
.

 

[ycbm]

ETA that picture is not of the SRS, and is a rather poor example of a horse in pillars.

Yes it's extremely difficult to find pictures, why is that?

The other one I had a choice of has the horse sat with its hocks on the surface of the school. I chose not to use that as it was too extreme.
.

 

[tristars]

i have a problem with other methods as they are seen to be hitting horses who are already performing [the whatever] it is they are being asked to do, when in a double bridle and carrying a rider wearing spurs

at least in the pillars the horse can explore its own feelings during training and adjust itself while learning, and the trainer can see the horses posture

 

[Cortez]

i have a problem with other methods as they are seen to be hitting horses who are already performing [the whatever] it is they are being asked to do, when in a double bridle and carrying a rider wearing spurs

at least in the pillars the horse can explore its own feelings during training and adjust itself while learning, and the trainer can see the horses posture

A tap with a schooling whip is not the same as hitting a horse, just as using a spur properly is not the same as gouging it. I am well aware that tools (which is what sticks and spurs are meant to be) can be used as weapons, but that does not make them inherently bad.

You have correctly described the advantage of using pillars, they are another tool that can help the horse to find his balance and confidence and rhythm without having to carry a rider. I have started many horses in pillars and never seen one upset or nervous in them, quite the opposite in fact. They are little understood in England, but please don’t dismiss or mistrust them because they are unusual there.