Helgstrand…

[SEL]

I personally think who you associate with says a lot about what you consider okay. There are local trainers and yard owners I’d never dream of using because I Know full well they are hard on horses. I just couldn’t/wouldn’t go there. It’s simply wrong.

I know a super talented teen who got a job as a working pupil with one such trainer on an Eventing yard. She lasted a week then walked when she realised how they treated horses. She is now on another brilliant eventing yard. People can choose to say ‘no, I refuse to go along with this. I refuse to excuse or normalise this’.

So if AP is neck deep in with the Helgstrands she should be held accountable for that. It’s not ‘awkward’ - she’s complicit.

I'd agree whilst remembering she's very young (19) and wouldn't be hanging about on their yard. It's easy to dismiss rumours if they don't line up with what you see, especially for someone young who wants to believe everything is ok.

It'll be interesting to see if they make any sort of statement.

 

[SEL]

They need to be stopped

Why don't you start a new thread?

 

[Observer]

I thought this was a discussion about Helgstrand? Can’t we have a separate discussion about the other horse weirdos? Sadly there seems to be a lot out there

she has been spreading madness in Ireland I shall let it stop. and people can gradually find out and make their assessments

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I'd agree whilst remembering she's very young (19) and wouldn't be hanging about on their yard. It's easy to dismiss rumours if they don't line up with what you see, especially for someone young who wants to believe everything is ok.

It'll be interesting to see if they make any sort of statement.

Oh I didn’t realise she was so young.

Well I think she could protect her own reputation if she distances herself unambiguously now, saying - perhaps truthfully- that she had no idea what was going on. And cutting any sort of business ties with the brand and yard.

 

[ycbm]

she has been spreading madness in Ireland I shall let it stop. and people can gradually find out and make their assessments

It's absolutely normal on this forum for threads to go down different avenues. I for one am grateful for the heads up, now the second one on two diffeent threads, about two different people whose views have been recommended by someone whose pointers I've trusted in the past. I'll be more cautious in future.

I'm sorry you've taken such a lot of stick for trying to protect people and horses from Internet charlatans. Honestly, we aren't normally this bad!
.

 

[reynold]

Further report on H&H

Rollkur and bleeding mouths in second part of undercover documentary at Helgstrand Dressage

Rollkur and aggressive riding are featured in the second part of TV2's Operation X documentary filmed undercover at Danish stable Helgstrand Dressage

www.horseandhound.co.uk

The financial holding company don't seem to be worried or that unhappy with this quote from the above H&H report

A spokesman for Waterland Private Equity which owns the Global Equestrian Group – of which Helgstrand Dressage is part – told H&H:

“We endorse Helgstrand Dressage’s distancing from the horse training activities shown in the documentary from TV2. Since TV2 obtained the hidden footage in January, Helgstrand Dressage has undergone a thorough review and has implemented various measures and improvements on animal welfare and in its business practices and employee working conditions,” said the spokesman.

“We note that Helgstrand Dressage has taken the criticism to heart and will learn and evolve from this and we are confident that the company will continue to advance its frontrunner position within the sector and set high standards for the equestrian industry.”

 

[catkin]

Further report on H&H

Rollkur and bleeding mouths in second part of undercover documentary at Helgstrand Dressage

Rollkur and aggressive riding are featured in the second part of TV2's Operation X documentary filmed undercover at Danish stable Helgstrand Dressage

www.horseandhound.co.uk

The financial holding company don't seem to be worried or that unhappy with this quote from the above H&H report

A spokesman for Waterland Private Equity which owns the Global Equestrian Group – of which Helgstrand Dressage is part – told H&H:

“We endorse Helgstrand Dressage’s distancing from the horse training activities shown in the documentary from TV2. Since TV2 obtained the hidden footage in January, Helgstrand Dressage has undergone a thorough review and has implemented various measures and improvements on animal welfare and in its business practices and employee working conditions,” said the spokesman.

“We note that Helgstrand Dressage has taken the criticism to heart and will learn and evolve from this and we are confident that the company will continue to advance its frontrunner position within the sector and set high standards for the equestrian industry.”

That statement actually doesn't say anything more than 'we had a look and our primary goal is still business'

 

[SEL]

That statement actually doesn't say anything more than 'we had a look and our primary goal is still business'

With the unspoken message of making sure they vet their grooms better so undercover work can't happen again no doubt.................

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Hopefully their customers wll make their feelings known and the smart business decision will end up being to ditch Helgstrand. It always ends up being about money.

 

[sbloom]

I hadn't heard any of that about BN, I have just seen a few posts. Consider me updated.

 

[Cortez]

That statement actually doesn't say anything more than 'we had a look and our primary goal is still business'

Actually it says “we’re sorry we got caught and we’ll try not to get caught again”. If they need an undercover video to tell them that bleeding mouths are bad then there isn’t much hope.

 

[ycbm]

.

 

[Burnttoast]

https://www.facebook.com/NfuglsangEP/posts/pfbid0FkhqMG3Y9UVumWVrDodpiYcPy2GiZ5U9eC8Btd8CHMSQWLvJCc8atdpausJeqCGrl

 

[ThreeFurs]

https://www.facebook.com/NfuglsangEP/posts/pfbid0FkhqMG3Y9UVumWVrDodpiYcPy2GiZ5U9eC8Btd8CHMSQWLvJCc8atdpausJeqCGrl

Who he? Niels Fuglsang is a Danish politician who was elected as a Member of the European Parliament in 2019. A member of the Social Democrats, he sits with the Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats in the European Parliament.


"I'M TAKING THE HEGLSTRAND SCANDAL TO THE EU. I have today written to the European Commission to ask if they are aware of the animal welfare problems that exist within horse racing. And whether they are considering introducing measures to ensure proper animal welfare within equestrian sports. It is the first step to get this problem on the agenda in the EU. Equestrian sport is huge in Europe, and if we can lead the way in this area, we can set standards for the sport in general. I am incredibly happy about all the constructive comments and inputs I got on my last post about the Operation X documentary about Helgstrand dressage. I am, among other things, became aware that this is certainly not an isolated case, and that it does not only apply to dressage but also to other disciplines within equestrian sports. It is clear to me that there is a general problem that requires political action. Finally, keep contacting me with suggestions, comments, or suggestions for people to talk to. I am collecting and will continue to work on this matter. I can promise that."

 

[tristars]

wow, i like him!

thank you TreeFurs

 

[reynold]

Andreas Helgstrand to miss Paris 2024 – as three Helgstrand Dressage instructors reprimanded

The Danish federation and riding instructor association have announced further measures against Andreas Helgstrand and Helgstrand Dressage

www.horseandhound.co.uk

Helgstrand himself and now 3 of his 'instructors' suspended by Danish Federation. Nothing yet from FEI.

Helgstrand is banned at least until end of 2024 so will not be at the olympics

 

[tristars]

well that will be some shock to h dressage, missing the o`s

 

[LEC]

I was watching someone on YouTube the other day and they basically said every professional rider is complicit as they will either use these methods or know someone who does. I would agree, we are, but unlike child safeguarding where there are strong protocols in place, there is nothing for horses and competing and nor will there ever be. Things have got better and I think they will continue to get better but where there is money there will be issues. The FEI is also absolutely spineless because they are slow moving and set up for bureaucracy and not agile in this kind of thing plus they have to dance to the tune of federations and money.

 

[SO1]

I was watching someone on YouTube the other day and they basically said every professional rider is complicit as they will either use these methods or know someone who does. I would agree, we are, but unlike child safeguarding where there are strong protocols in place, there is nothing for horses and competing and nor will there ever be. Things have got better and I think they will continue to get better but where there is money there will be issues. The FEI is also absolutely spineless because they are slow moving and set up for bureaucracy and not agile in this kind of thing plus they have to dance to the tune of federations and money.

I don't think it is just money though there are probably amateurs who also use these methods due to believing that they will help them be more competitive. I doubt very much those that don't compete use these training methods.

 

[reynold]

Helgstrand Dressage to record all training – in the ‘wake of poor riding’

Helgstrand Dressage announced it will install cameras in its riding hall to capture training following the broadcast of undercover documentary Operation X

www.horseandhound.co.uk

Helgstrand to install professional camera equipment in all of it's riding halls.

However Helgstrand himself also states in the above article that:

Anders added that he “would like to make it clear that there is no talk of a systematic review” of Helgstrand Dressage’s training.

So the draw reins and rollkur will continue is what he's implying there..

 

[4Hoofed]

For “safety monitoring” rather than a review of training techniques. They regret nothing and really don’t care… probably more interested in making sure they don’t get caught again than preventing cruelty. Should be ripped apart by FEI, and their government so their business can’t go on as they clearly don’t care.

 

[fjp]

There seems to be a massive lack of accountability at a senior level - they’ll ‘put up cameras’ implies that the riders are sneaking around behind the back of top level staff using covert abusive methods. The whole response seems to suggest that Andreas and co were completely unaware that this was happening - which cannot be the case if they had the sort of oversight needed to know the abilities/talents/progress of the horses in training. The bits of video of the undercover journalist also shows Andreas looking distinctly unhappy about the line of questioning.
So no, ‘cameras’ won’t cut it if they mean an in-house monitoring by those who have already shown themselves to be unethical. An open livestream maybe….

 

[Caol Ila]

Ach, ye ken it’s all just damage control.

 

[tristars]

helgstrands own riding/training/warmup processes are proof they are` aware `of the methods used in the `riding halls` [conveyor belt processing plant]

the buck stops at the top, the way he rides his own horses in public is the methodology set for all those who work beneath him and train and ride for him

 

[tristars]

There seems to be a massive lack of accountability at a senior level - they’ll ‘put up cameras’ implies that the riders are sneaking around behind the back of top level staff using covert abusive methods. The whole response seems to suggest that Andreas and co were completely unaware that this was happening - which cannot be the case if they had the sort of oversight needed to know the abilities/talents/progress of the horses in training. The bits of video of the undercover journalist also shows Andreas looking distinctly unhappy about the line of questioning.
So no, ‘cameras’ won’t cut it if they mean an in-house monitoring by those who have already shown themselves to be unethical. An open livestream maybe….

its called bull.... [think of large pile of manure]

 

[lizziebell]

Two top horses move to new riders while Helgstrand barred from team duties

Helgstrand Dressage has announced that two of Andreas Helgstrand's top horses will be campaigned by new riders during 2024

www.horseandhound.co.uk

Maybe I’m seeing this too much in black and white, but seriously poor judgment by these riders taking on Helgstrand horses!

 

[millitiger]

Two top horses move to new riders while Helgstrand barred from team duties

Helgstrand Dressage has announced that two of Andreas Helgstrand's top horses will be campaigned by new riders during 2024

www.horseandhound.co.uk

Maybe I’m seeing this too much in black and white, but seriously poor judgment by these riders taking on Helgstrand horses!

To be fair, they've both had their own accusations to deal with in the past regarding training methods!

 

[TheMule]

Out of the frying pan, into the fire

 

[shortstuff99]

Rather than start a whole new thread but sort of along the same lines but a big trainer in America with a junior group.

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[splashgirl45]

Very nice so called trainer, horses need punishing , should have flipped him over, what on earth is she telling these youngsters to do , all of the horses seem unhappy , takes swishing and putting heads up, it all looked very depressing and I’m sure there are many more just as bad or worse