Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
But horse ownership is not a right nor a necessity?
horse market seems a bit overpriced!??
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But horse ownership is not a right nor a necessity?
Lipglosspukka
Well-Known Member
I'm not upset about it. I have horses and once the current ones go, I have no intention on getting another.
I feel sorry for the younger generation. I came from a working class family living in council accommodation. My parents scrimped together £800 to buy me a pony. They covered the weekly DIY livery rent which was just £10 a week. I worked one weekend day and one evening to afford the other bits. But it was doable.
They would never have found 4k plus to get the same type of pony today.
I just find it a shame.
I feel sorry for the younger generation. I came from a working class family living in council accommodation. My parents scrimped together £800 to buy me a pony. They covered the weekly DIY livery rent which was just £10 a week. I worked one weekend day and one evening to afford the other bits. But it was doable.
They would never have found 4k plus to get the same type of pony today.
I just find it a shame.
Wishfilly
Well-Known Member
Without meaning to be harsh, I think your family may have faced much bigger problems today. Like not being able to access council accommodation, and perhaps living in inadequate/overcrowded housing and being at risk of homelessness if you were evicted (which can be done at the landlord's whim).
I do think it is a shame that a lot of children will never get to experience owning a pet, never mind a pony, because house ownership is out of reach and their parents can't find rental accommodation that allows children and pets.
MuddyMonster
Well-Known Member
I can see your point (and I do agree people may be priced out) but I think 'normal' people have always had to compromise. Or, at least I have
I haven't paid huge sums (less than £2,000) for either of my horses but I bought my first horse as an older boy looking to step down into a much quieter lifestyle (he taught me loads) and my current pony I bought as a 5 year old 13.3hh/14hh less popular breed of native pony. I couldn't have afforded a 5 year Connemara at the time as they were like 3-4 times the price
I wouldn't have been able to buy him when I was a young twenty something at the start of my career as he is now - a low level teenaged schoolmaster-y type. I made him into one. It took longer and there hace been ups and downs but it was all do-able on a (at times) small ish budget. He's not 'proper' competitive material but he gets around a Prelim dresage test without being competitive for a nice afternoon out, would pop a small course and you can hack him anywhere. Hacking is my 'thing's I don't need him to be competitive
Although I can afford to spend more these days, I don't have an unlimited budget and when I look for Number 2 I'm still quite prepared to either buy slightly smaller than most people want, not the prettiest, unfashionable breed, older, younger or compromise on minor ailments etc to get an uncompetitive but safe hacking horse (or a blank canvas with a nice attitud to make one). From what I've seen, they are still out there for less than five figures.
Of course I have friends that have been able buy more competitive, more talented horses & I have friends that have bought bigger houses than me. As is life!
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marmalade76
Well-Known Member
Not when you already have all that ie, if your husband is a farmer or a contractor (as in my case). As it happens, I did pay £4k for the last horse I bought but a PPI refund paid for him. I also have two others I had for nothing (a freebie and a loan).
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Would you say that about a Boat or a high quality mountain bikes why is a horse different .
In my book nice safe horses should command a premium.
blitznbobs
Well-Known Member
horses are expensive to produce -- and are in demand. People have time and spare money at the moment hence the prices go up. Once the furlough scheme ends and people lose their jobs the market may well be flooded.
spacefaer
Well-Known Member
@Ambers Echo
With regard to your post about buying /selling - I think it's an art which can be learnt but the inherent love is something you are born with ?
I love horse shopping - the promise of a nice young ID and the potential of making something nice out of him.
I love horse selling - the matchmaking of right horse to the right person. Of the horses my OH and I have sold over the years, I'd say 90% are still in the homes we sold them to.
And there are agents -a couple of my friends do it professionally and I have done it for friends in the past. It's fun spending their money ??
With regard to your post about buying /selling - I think it's an art which can be learnt but the inherent love is something you are born with ?
I love horse shopping - the promise of a nice young ID and the potential of making something nice out of him.
I love horse selling - the matchmaking of right horse to the right person. Of the horses my OH and I have sold over the years, I'd say 90% are still in the homes we sold them to.
And there are agents -a couple of my friends do it professionally and I have done it for friends in the past. It's fun spending their money ??
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
Well I may be wanting their services sometime....
Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
I paid more for my mare (5yo smart Irish cob) 9 months ago than I've paid for any horse ever. She's not done a whole lot other than hack, school, a pleasure ride since then, but tbh I wouldn't take less than twice what I paid for her because she is an absolute gem and the type who will do whatever I ask, whenever I ask it, and is a total pleasure to own. Horse like this don't grow on trees and they are worth the money.
However she is not for sale
AdorableAlice
Well-Known Member
Spot on. I have just sold a homebred for a fair bit, but it did not cover his costs. A brilliant home has made up the deficit though and he is happy so all is well.
flat3
Well-Known Member
teapot
Well-Known Member
I know of a 10 year old that's done bugger all and is for sale at £35K
When you think Mary King was selling King Robert for £40K as a decent Novice event horse, poss intermediate with the right person, tell me how horse prices for the generic amateur are not beginning to take the mic a little?
When you think Mary King was selling King Robert for £40K as a decent Novice event horse, poss intermediate with the right person, tell me how horse prices for the generic amateur are not beginning to take the mic a little?
sport horse
Well-Known Member
I think care is needed not to compare a pony to a horse. Your costings would not even touch the edge of keeping a 16.2 sport horse. Shoeing £87/set every six weeks, rising to £90 next week. Feed at least £25 per week, bedding shavings £10 upwards/bale, winter grass of no feed value for working horse.
The cost of horses (not ponies) has risen as there was a huge reduction in breeding numbers throughout Europe and Ireland about 5/7 years ago when breeders found that prices for the finished article did not meet their costs - breeding numbers dropped by as much as 50% and this will now be feeding through into the ridden horse market.
When you find that people expect to buy a horse for £2.5k but then spend £2k on a saddle plus bridles and every imaginable weight of rug, you realise that the horse is the smallest part of their budget!
ester
Not slacking multitasking
but pony costs have gone up too?
spotty_pony
...
I'm hoping to be looking next year... possibly the prices may have settled down a but by then but I am not holding out much hope.
DirectorFury
Well-Known Member
I'm finding a really big gap in the market, regardless of price, for smaller adult all-rounders that won't set the world on fire but are sensible and don't have a large % TB or WB breeding. There seems to be a big split in the ads that I see - there are the sporty competition horses and the hairy cobby types, but really not much in the middle. There are a lot of 16.2+ IDs and ISHs but I'm only bloody 5'4, 15.2 is more than big enough for me! Maybe they exist but don't come on the open market.
I'm also noticing, strangely, that most of the horses for sale at the moment are geldings - have breeders been retaining mares in the hope that the market will pick up?
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I'm also noticing, strangely, that most of the horses for sale at the moment are geldings - have breeders been retaining mares in the hope that the market will pick up?
You must've missed the 6 figure 6yo that had done nothing but would make an ideal hunter! With a little questioning, it turned out they meant American Hunter/Jumpers which explained the price tagI know of a 10 year old that's done bugger all and is for sale at £35K
When you think Mary King was selling King Robert for £40K as a decent Novice event horse, poss intermediate with the right person, tell me how horse prices for the generic amateur are not beginning to take the mic a little?
.teapot
Well-Known Member
You must've missed the 6 figure 6yo that had done nothing but would make an ideal hunter! With a little questioning, it turned out they meant American Hunter/Jumpers which explained the price tag
Think we all know the US market is bonkers!
daydreamer
Well-Known Member
I decided I wanted a Morgan as I also didn’t want a big TB or WB and I also didn’t really fancy a connie which just about seemed the only mid-sized all rounder types. Morgan’s are pretty rare though especially in this country. I ended up paying £3500 for a 6mo 2 years ago. I probably should have haggled! I don’t really think that was too much though for a very well bred youngster. In my head he wouldn’t be worth much more now but who knows with the current market
He should make about 15.2, is a very intelligent and sensible chap who has been very forgiving of me as a first time youngster owner.
Wishfilly
Well-Known Member
I know of a 10 year old that's done bugger all and is for sale at £35K
When you think Mary King was selling King Robert for £40K as a decent Novice event horse, poss intermediate with the right person, tell me how horse prices for the generic amateur are not beginning to take the mic a little?
I do think that's a bit ridiculous. I'd be surprised if they actually get that for him!
I'm finding a really big gap in the market, regardless of price, for smaller adult all-rounders that won't set the world on fire but are sensible and don't have a large % TB or WB breeding. There seems to be a big split in the ads that I see - there are the sporty competition horses and the hairy cobby types, but really not much in the middle. There are a lot of 16.2+ IDs and ISHs but I'm only bloody 5'4, 15.2 is more than big enough for me! Maybe they exist but don't come on the open market.
I'm also noticing, strangely, that most of the horses for sale at the moment are geldings - have breeders been retaining mares in the hope that the market will pick up?
You must've missed the 6 figure 6yo that had done nothing but would make an ideal hunter! With a little questioning, it turned out they meant American Hunter/Jumpers which explained the price tag
When I was looking I saw a fair few overheight connies/connie crosses that would fit this bill? Also some overheight, sporty welshies that are about 15hh.
But I guess a lot of people don't want overheight ponies, either?
marmalade76
Well-Known Member
I would have liked a Morgan but they're hard to come by. I bought an arab instead. Maybe one day..
windand rain
Well-Known Member
No such thing as an overheight welsh but agree that some dont want big ponies. There is definitely a dearth of amateur 15.2 horses which of course makes them even more sought after. To my mind there is a pony to suit most riders and no one needs a horse bigger than 16hh. Small horses are more durable, stronger and are the ideal shape for soundness. admittedly some are not but they are often the exceptions that prove the rule
spacefaer
Well-Known Member
With reference to small horses, several years ago, I tried to produce a few 15.2hh Welsh part breds, aiming them at the teenager/small adult market.
I found them to be not cost effective. For a nice, straightforward 6 year old gelding, with a low level competition record (80/90s), and a reasonable bit of worldly mileage, I could get about half the sale price of a 16.2hh.
That may be why there is a current shortage - the producers haven't caught up with the demand!
I found them to be not cost effective. For a nice, straightforward 6 year old gelding, with a low level competition record (80/90s), and a reasonable bit of worldly mileage, I could get about half the sale price of a 16.2hh.
That may be why there is a current shortage - the producers haven't caught up with the demand!
Bernster
Well-Known Member
On the horse height, is that a thing - there are more 16h plus horses as they get a better price? I’d think there are more female riders and shorter riders wanting something more like 16h, not a whopping big thing, but has the preference been for bigger horses? I‘m in the 15.2-16h bracket and keep seeing what sounds perfect, but a whole hand too big ?
PSD
Well-Known Member
I was really lucky with both my horses, my first was £500 (10years ago) as a yearling from the breeder and she was the best horse I’ve ever known. My current horse (3yo registered fell) cost me £700 last year straight from the breeder. I realise how lucky I am because I know the costs breeders have to put in when breeding and raising youngstock. I could easily get a decent price tag for my fell now simply from her breeding lines alone, nevermind the crazy covid prices!
However I think like some have said, the cost of everything has risen. My livery yard used to be the cheapest and most basic in the area (still is the cheapest) however many liveries left last year when the yo decided to raise the standard rent from £16pw to £22 - she knocked the whole yard down and built it back up with brand new stables and tack rooms and they still weren’t happy with the price increase. We have a new bedding supplier, so we pay either £6.50 for a bale of shavings or £10 for a more premium bale. Haylage/hay is charged dependant on the size of your horse and whether it needs the good stuff or the more laminitis friendly stuff. We have had a shower/clipping room built, a Walker and she is currently building a cross country field. Yet people were still annoyed with the £6 a week increase to reflect this.
I think prices of horses are quite high, especially for ones with issues but I can’t see them going back to how they used to be - where you could pick up a section a for £50! And I’m glad. It will stop people thinking horses are a cheap hobby and hopefully less to less cases of neglect. BUT I am not saying that simply because one has money to spend, it means they will care for the horse as they should. Obviously neglect can happen anywhere -
Money or not.
However I think like some have said, the cost of everything has risen. My livery yard used to be the cheapest and most basic in the area (still is the cheapest) however many liveries left last year when the yo decided to raise the standard rent from £16pw to £22 - she knocked the whole yard down and built it back up with brand new stables and tack rooms and they still weren’t happy with the price increase. We have a new bedding supplier, so we pay either £6.50 for a bale of shavings or £10 for a more premium bale. Haylage/hay is charged dependant on the size of your horse and whether it needs the good stuff or the more laminitis friendly stuff. We have had a shower/clipping room built, a Walker and she is currently building a cross country field. Yet people were still annoyed with the £6 a week increase to reflect this.
I think prices of horses are quite high, especially for ones with issues but I can’t see them going back to how they used to be - where you could pick up a section a for £50! And I’m glad. It will stop people thinking horses are a cheap hobby and hopefully less to less cases of neglect. BUT I am not saying that simply because one has money to spend, it means they will care for the horse as they should. Obviously neglect can happen anywhere -
Money or not.
j1ffy
Well-Known Member
I've been scanning through this thread with interest - there is such a wide range of needs, wants and experiences of horse purchasing / selling / ownership that it's difficult to generalise. I believe the pricing for sound, reliable horses is probably more realistic particularly given the costings laid out earlier in the thread.
The house comparison doesn't work for me but the sailing analogy seems to fit as a yacht is as non-essential as a horse for the vast majority of us. I've been looking to learn to sail (competent crew training) and the cost of a five-day course is around the £300 mark, which is doable for a lot of people but certainly not all. I'd expect to be able to hire a sailing craft of some sort for a holiday in future once appropriately qualified - it's not cheap but doable compared to other holidays. I certainly wouldn't expect to be able to buy my own quality, safe and well-maintained yacht along with mooring fees etc (I don't know anything about the costs btw, just guessing) without considerable saving and compromise of other hobbies / non-essentials.
Yet with horse riding, lessons are manageable on a similar basis yet horse ownership and keep can be incredibly cheap. This doesn't seem right. No-one would buy a yacht or other boat with issues unless they were capable of fixing them or could afford to have someone else do it, yet novice horse riders will buy a cheap horse and expect to be able to manage. It seems to me that this balance does need to shift to encourage more training and education rather than jumping into ownership, but I don't have any solutions to resolve this unless we were to go down a licensing route and this would be near-impossible to legislate or enforce.
FWIW (further to comments above), some friends of mine are on low income and live in council housing and have dogs and two ponies. The ponies have cost little (an ex-trotter from some friends) or nothing (an outgrown pony on loan) and they keep them on a rented field. They have very experienced people around them who have supported with training and lessons and the ponies have everything they need and the mum grew up with ponies / horses so knows what she's doing.
The house comparison doesn't work for me but the sailing analogy seems to fit as a yacht is as non-essential as a horse for the vast majority of us. I've been looking to learn to sail (competent crew training) and the cost of a five-day course is around the £300 mark, which is doable for a lot of people but certainly not all. I'd expect to be able to hire a sailing craft of some sort for a holiday in future once appropriately qualified - it's not cheap but doable compared to other holidays. I certainly wouldn't expect to be able to buy my own quality, safe and well-maintained yacht along with mooring fees etc (I don't know anything about the costs btw, just guessing) without considerable saving and compromise of other hobbies / non-essentials.
Yet with horse riding, lessons are manageable on a similar basis yet horse ownership and keep can be incredibly cheap. This doesn't seem right. No-one would buy a yacht or other boat with issues unless they were capable of fixing them or could afford to have someone else do it, yet novice horse riders will buy a cheap horse and expect to be able to manage. It seems to me that this balance does need to shift to encourage more training and education rather than jumping into ownership, but I don't have any solutions to resolve this unless we were to go down a licensing route and this would be near-impossible to legislate or enforce.
FWIW (further to comments above), some friends of mine are on low income and live in council housing and have dogs and two ponies. The ponies have cost little (an ex-trotter from some friends) or nothing (an outgrown pony on loan) and they keep them on a rented field. They have very experienced people around them who have supported with training and lessons and the ponies have everything they need and the mum grew up with ponies / horses so knows what she's doing.
mariew
Well-Known Member
It's interesting, growing up in Sweden horse owning was a fairly exclusive thing, but it was the 3rd biggest sport at the time. Most people rode at good riding schools or shared/looked after for rides, privately owned or riding school ones. Not many kids had their own pony. A decent basic horse back then was 10k.
Part of me thinks this should still be the case as I have come across so many in my horse journey in England who doesn't pay livery because they can't afford it then do a runner and leave yo out of pocket, or will only call a professional as a last resort, (vet/saddler etc) because they can't afford it and will skimp on food/hay and not insure. All because it was really cheap to buy the horse in the first place, bit like buying a pet dog or cat :/ . So I'm in two minds about cheap horses for this reason. I don't think they should be cheap but I am outpriced at the moment so wouldn't mind prices coming down a bit lol.
Part of me thinks this should still be the case as I have come across so many in my horse journey in England who doesn't pay livery because they can't afford it then do a runner and leave yo out of pocket, or will only call a professional as a last resort, (vet/saddler etc) because they can't afford it and will skimp on food/hay and not insure. All because it was really cheap to buy the horse in the first place, bit like buying a pet dog or cat :/ . So I'm in two minds about cheap horses for this reason. I don't think they should be cheap but I am outpriced at the moment so wouldn't mind prices coming down a bit lol.
smolmaus
Well-Known Member
This is it lol
I have noticed one local dealer selling a lot of nice looking ponies to Sweden recently funny enough. Usually around the 3-5k mark, usually 4-5yo connies or small cobs. If Swedish horse prices have even just gone up with inflation in the last 10 years they'll be getting a bargain!
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
It's ridiculous. These sellers are just chancing their arm imho.I know of a 10 year old that's done bugger all and is for sale at £35K
When you think Mary King was selling King Robert for £40K as a decent Novice event horse, poss intermediate with the right person, tell me how horse prices for the generic amateur are not beginning to take the mic a little?
If you go over to Holland (and have the right contacts) you can see a number of horses over the course of a day and literally choose the horse for you, getting vetted by their vet and shipped over.
You can get a nice youngster for around £3 - £5K, the price is added on when dealers bring them over here, do a quick couple of week turnaround where they literally school them to death during the course of a week or a fortnight and then you have a £10K horse to sell.
Widgeon
Well-Known Member
Yes, this exactly. I bought my first horse for 6K, thinking that it was quite a bit but I was happy to spend that on a something that would hopefully be with me for twenty years or so. Despite the vet being happy with him on purchase he turned out to have issues that emerged very quickly with an increased workload, and his breeder flatly refused to have him back. For various reasons I won't go into legal action turned out not to be an option, and ultimately (it was a long and convoluted story) I lost every penny I spent on him, plus he destroyed my confidence and caused unending stress for almost a year. So that was great - *not*. I would never pay that much for a horse again. Second horse was an unvetted 11yo cob, less than £4K including tack, came with a good (recent) pony club record. Turns out he has arthritis but as I didn't pay all that much for him I wasn't too horrified, it just means his "running costs" are higher.