I’m not sure what to think….

[Sossigpoker]

I hope you said something.......?

Pointless with this "groom". She'll just shout "well he shouldn't be so ignorant then ". Even when yard owner shouted at her to not hit him on the face. Bitch just shouts back at yard owner.
This goes on everywhere , this is why I dream of having my own place one day.
I see people lose their shit all the time , it is the society we live in, people have no respect for anyone or anything. Just look at the feral kids running around without any respect, happened here just last night. When you live in a society where you do what you want and anyone with an opinion can feck off, this is what you get.

 

[luckyoldme]

I saw an Olympic event rider beating a horse unmercifully, when I had taken my own horse for a lesson at a venue. It was 2012, just before the London Games.

I was riding my own horse, my lesson had just finished, my trainer left the arena and I was walking mine off to cool down. The other, visiting, rider came into the area, the horse initially looked to be working well, but then did something to displease the rider. The rider beat it with a whip, including round the head, then got off and toecapped it in the tummy, beat it from the ground, got back on, did some more, got off AGAIN to kick it...

I was aghast!

BUT - it was a big man with a whip, in a foul temper. My own horse was shaking and wanting to spin in fear. I had my hands full. I *could* still have shouted out, but I don't think he would have stopped.

If I had had a phone, I would have filmed him, but I was cooling down from a lesson and my phone was in the box. The big, violent, foul man was also nearer the gate than me. When I could, I simply left, took my horse with me, went on a hack as I simply wanted to get away from the violence.

When I eventually got home I rang my trainer, whose place it was, and reported what I had seen. They said they didn't mind if I reported them, but they hadn't seen it, as they had left already. Some credit to them as he wouldn't have done it in front of them.

So, we have an Olympian, who would doubtless say I (low level competitor) was being silly and hysterical, and no evidence. If I had reported to the FEI, he *should* have been banned, but would not have been on a 1-1 complaint, with me being lower level, ranking, experience etc.

Backlash.

Yes, I would have feared backlash.

I later found out he had threatened to injure the (temporary) farrier, as a threat just in case he lamed the horse before the Olympics. The farrier was also older, and simply packed up and went home!

The worst bit?

2 worst bits actually.

The man is successful.

The man advertised he was setting up his own yard after this, and was promoting his sympathetic training methods.

Who is he?

I still fear backlash and won't say. Other that it wasn't a team GB rider.

Had he threatened violence on my own horse, I would simply have walked away. But I am older than this rider who uploaded the clip.

I hasten to add that what Mark Todd did was less than 1% of what the other rider did. I don't think he had completely lost it. I also don't think he would threaten the rider.

I am not proud that I didn't yell out, try to stop the big man, but I also forgive myself. I kept my own horse safe, and that is what I felt I could do.

Although I don't agree with what MT did, it is not on the scale of what I have seen from others, such as the man above.

I totally get why you didn't yell out red .
I was in the forces in the 80s and now looking back it was outrageous what we experienced and hard to explain the total lack of power we had.
These days , with phones in hand it's much easier to back up a claim and I cant be the only one who feels it's a positive thing that finally position in rank, privilege or power no longer exempts people from the boundaries of decent behaviour.
Mark Todd ...get that into you. That video exposes your true being for the person you are and also the stupid clowns who applauded your methods .

 

[eahotson]

I saw an Olympic event rider beating a horse unmercifully, when I had taken my own horse for a lesson at a venue. It was 2012, just before the London Games.

I was riding my own horse, my lesson had just finished, my trainer left the arena and I was walking mine off to cool down. The other, visiting, rider came into the area, the horse initially looked to be working well, but then did something to displease the rider. The rider beat it with a whip, including round the head, then got off and toecapped it in the tummy, beat it from the ground, got back on, did some more, got off AGAIN to kick it...

I was aghast!

BUT - it was a big man with a whip, in a foul temper. My own horse was shaking and wanting to spin in fear. I had my hands full. I *could* still have shouted out, but I don't think he would have stopped.

If I had had a phone, I would have filmed him, but I was cooling down from a lesson and my phone was in the box. The big, violent, foul man was also nearer the gate than me. When I could, I simply left, took my horse with me, went on a hack as I simply wanted to get away from the violence.

When I eventually got home I rang my trainer, whose place it was, and reported what I had seen. They said they didn't mind if I reported them, but they hadn't seen it, as they had left already. Some credit to them as he wouldn't have done it in front of them.

So, we have an Olympian, who would doubtless say I (low level competitor) was being silly and hysterical, and no evidence. If I had reported to the FEI, he *should* have been banned, but would not have been on a 1-1 complaint, with me being lower level, ranking, experience etc.

Backlash.

Yes, I would have feared backlash.

I later found out he had threatened to injure the (temporary) farrier, as a threat just in case he lamed the horse before the Olympics. The farrier was also older, and simply packed up and went home!

The worst bit?

2 worst bits actually.

The man is successful.

The man advertised he was setting up his own yard after this, and was promoting his sympathetic training methods.

Who is he?

I still fear backlash and won't say. Other that it wasn't a team GB rider.

Had he threatened violence on my own horse, I would simply have walked away. But I am older than this rider who uploaded the clip.

I hasten to add that what Mark Todd did was less than 1% of what the other rider did. I don't think he had completely lost it. I also don't think he would threaten the rider.

I am not proud that I didn't yell out, try to stop the big man, but I also forgive myself. I kept my own horse safe, and that is what I felt I could do.

Although I don't agree with what MT did, it is not on the scale of what I have seen from others, such as the man above.

Dear God. I wish I didn't believe you but I do sadly. You did the best you could in the situation you were in.

 

[Sossigpoker]

I am on a livery yard.It has its little ups and downs but there is one thing I can say.I have never seen staff/liveries abuse their horses.I heard that one member of staff did so many years ago.Was caught by yard owner and sacked on the spot.

This groom is the only full timer and YO can't really get any staff so she won't be sacked. I've told the YO before that this girl behaves like all girls her age I've seen , everything escalates to violence when they don't get their own way , but she just said "I've never seen her do that ".
But she's probably conveniently forgotten about it as she can't afford to do anything about it as can't do the yard by herself.
I hope one day I will have my phone out and film it when the girl loses her shit.

But again, I've seen every single young girl behave like that at some point, it is far from rare

I got pissed off with my horse yesterday and guess what I did? I walked away to calm down.

 

[tristar]

just watched that video, the horse comes up to a bit of a puddle, goes oops, man rushes up to horse hits with stick, rider clutches at horses mouth so horse cannot go forwards, man hits horse again etc.

oliveira the great would have explained to them that if the horse did not like something or was afraid, to re assure it, show it there is nothing to fear, then the horse would remember that kindness and have confidence in the rider next time it sees something scary.

i think most people would have got off and led it to the edge of the water, anyway the bloke is lucky not to have got his head kicked off

 

[Sossigpoker]

Someone who runs a yard around here is always being recommended for livery....but having seen her beat a horse with a whip when it didn't stand at the mounting bloc , I'd rather put mine in my garden than within a mile of her.


Violence is just so acceptable in this society.

 

[tristar]

T

But thats the whole point is it not? Things need to change and they will.
How is chasing a horse in to water teaching it any thing?
It is just showing it to be more afraid of the man behind with the stick than the water,
It should be taught not to be afraid of the water in the first place.
Yes Mark Todd has had huge success in eventing but at what cost to his horses?
Just because things have always been done a certain way does not mean it does not have to change.
We should evolve in our way of treating animals and if that means in time to come we do not ride then so be it.
Before anyone asks yes I do ride but I like to think I am a sympathetic rider.
Have I ever used a whip? Yes I have in younger days before I knew better but was never comfortable doing so. Times change and you are always going to get people who say but what about this and what about that but things will slowly change as more abuse comes to light to the general public and because of the use of mobile phones and social media that change is going to get faster.

i agree completely with this way of thinking

i get the feeling there are big changes on way

 

[ycbm]

if the horse was afraid [something], to re assure it, show it there is nothing to fear,

On another thread I posted how this, in the wrong (usually inexperienced but not always) hands, this is actually a recipe for confirming to the horse that it is right to be afraid. And this is how the stable mentioned above ends up with a steam of horses coming in for remedial work who walk all over their owners.

IME ignoring the behaviour (or an "oh get on with it") is far more effective than reassurance, which can be interpreted as approval of poor behaviour.
.

 

[ycbm]

i think most people would have got off and led it to the edge of the water, anyway the bloke is lucky not to have got his head kicked off

I wouldn't have got off. I'd have asked all the riders to go stand the other side, because in my view that horse was refusing at least as much because it was being asked to leave the others as it was because of the step.
.

 

[tristar]

I saw an Olympic event rider beating a horse unmercifully, when I had taken my own horse for a lesson at a venue. It was 2012, just before the London Games.

I was riding my own horse, my lesson had just finished, my trainer left the arena and I was walking mine off to cool down. The other, visiting, rider came into the area, the horse initially looked to be working well, but then did something to displease the rider. The rider beat it with a whip, including round the head, then got off and toecapped it in the tummy, beat it from the ground, got back on, did some more, got off AGAIN to kick it...

I was aghast!

BUT - it was a big man with a whip, in a foul temper. My own horse was shaking and wanting to spin in fear. I had my hands full. I *could* still have shouted out, but I don't think he would have stopped.

If I had had a phone, I would have filmed him, but I was cooling down from a lesson and my phone was in the box. The big, violent, foul man was also nearer the gate than me. When I could, I simply left, took my horse with me, went on a hack as I simply wanted to get away from the violence.

When I eventually got home I rang my trainer, whose place it was, and reported what I had seen. They said they didn't mind if I reported them, but they hadn't seen it, as they had left already. Some credit to them as he wouldn't have done it in front of them.

So, we have an Olympian, who would doubtless say I (low level competitor) was being silly and hysterical, and no evidence. If I had reported to the FEI, he *should* have been banned, but would not have been on a 1-1 complaint, with me being lower level, ranking, experience etc.

Backlash.

Yes, I would have feared backlash.

I later found out he had threatened to injure the (temporary) farrier, as a threat just in case he lamed the horse before the Olympics. The farrier was also older, and simply packed up and went home!

The worst bit?

2 worst bits actually.

The man is successful.

The man advertised he was setting up his own yard after this, and was promoting his sympathetic training methods.

Who is he?

I still fear backlash and won't say. Other that it wasn't a team GB rider.

Had he threatened violence on my own horse, I would simply have walked away. But I am older than this rider who uploaded the clip.

I hasten to add that what Mark Todd did was less than 1% of what the other rider did. I don't think he had completely lost it. I also don't think he would threaten the rider.

I am not proud that I didn't yell out, try to stop the big man, but I also forgive myself. I kept my own horse safe, and that is what I felt I could do.

Although I don't agree with what MT did, it is not on the scale of what I have seen from others, such as the man above.

but ask the question, ultimately, did he teach the horse anything, did he improve it, did he advance his understanding of horses, and improve his relationship with that horse? er no, which shows the utter futility of his actions

i wish we could all be a bit braver just say something, anything, no matter who it is, when we see things

 

[Red-1]

‘lame this horse before the Olympic and I’ll knock your head off’ sort of thing?

It was more graphic, violent, specific, and nasty, than that, but yes, that was the general gist.

Also it's possible to have a new opinion on your own actions in a situation with the passage of time.

This. I have always had a 'knack' of training horses with a smaller amount of force than most. However, I have sometimes been in a situation where I have been told to do something, and felt my options were limited. I certainly have evolved and can look back and see that stuff I have done in the past was not up to my 'now' ethical standard.

....

i get the feeling there are big changes on way

This is true, I think, and welcome. What I worry about is the number of people who will be judged today on stuff they did on yesterday's standards.

 

[tristar]

i would always give the horse the benefit of the doubt,

this was a training session, i would have shown the the horse in any way possible, there was nothing to fear, 5 minutes in a lifetime is nothing, its about either showing its ok to go in the water, or convincing the horse that what the rider asks will be done because in the end what the rider asks is what the horse should do

 

[Rowreach]

I understand that it may be difficult in the moment to call out behaviour which can be anything on a scale from "makes you feel a bit uncomfortable" to "all out abuse", but the fact is that if we were a bit braver, then the people who go around waving sticks about or using inappropriate language would have that nipped in the bud before it becomes something far worse (or they get their names and lives ripped to shreds on SM some years later).

I was working with someone last week, very well respected and knowledgeable in the sport (not equestrian), been in the role for many years, trains and assesses a lot of coaches and coach developers. They made a highly inappropriate comment relating to the "special" Olympics, which made me and visibly wince - but everyone else present laughed. Did I say anything at the time? Nope. Did I speak to them about it? Nope. Did I mention it quietly to someone else who was in a better position to mention it to them? Yup, and they did.

Am I going to wait a couple of years and destroy them publicly on Tiktok - absolutely not.

 

[tristar]

It was more graphic, violent, specific, and nasty, than that, but yes, that was the general gist.


This. I have always had a 'knack' of training horses with a smaller amount of force than most. However, I have sometimes been in a situation where I have been told to do something, and felt my options were limited. I certainly have evolved and can look back and see that stuff I have done in the past was not up to my 'now' ethical standard.


This is true, I think, and welcome. What I worry about is the number of people who will be judged today on stuff they did on yesterday's standards.

well said, thats it yesterdays standards are crumbling

 

[Sossigpoker]

well said, thats it yesterdays standards are crumbling

I so hope you are right.

 

[Rowreach]

I wouldn't have got off. I'd have asked all the riders to go stand the other side, because in my view that horse was refusing at least as much because it was being asked to leave the others as it was because of the step.
.

And as that video was a snapshot, we've no idea what went on before or how often the horse had been through the water, but it looked tired right from the start (so did the rider) and both looked like they thought they'd done the job and were finished.

There've been occasions like this where I've just said nope, the horse has done enough, thank you very much.

 

[luckyoldme]

but ask the question, ultimately, did he teach the horse anything, did he improve it, did he advance his understanding of horses, and improve his relationship with that horse? er no, which shows the utter futility of his actions

i wish we could all be a bit braver just say something, anything, no matter who it is, when we see things

Ages ago I met a guy who was well known in our area for being an unlovable rogue.he tried to muscle in on the sale of my business and was angry when I saw through him.
His horse was kept alongside mine and it shouldn't have been a problem. I didn't like him but I'm basically just a big standard person. My opinion of him shouldn't have mattered.
I tried to keep out of his way but he insisted on forcing a discussion centered round why I didn't like him. Four times I tried to walk away in a verbal attack during which he actually criticised my late father. At that point when he asked why I didn't like him I told him I thought he was a c***.
His outrage was instant and he basked in the sympathy of all who he talked to about my disgusting behaviour. Most of them sympathised then pm d me to say well said.
That is the problem. Fence sitters are every bit as bad as the folk doing the deeds.

 

[greenbean10]

I hate the video but also I am not at all surprised and I'm amazed so many people are. This kind of thing happens all. the. time.

In top level showjumping, beating horses in training to get them over a fence / if they stop etc is not seen as a big deal.

I appreciate watching good showjumping/eventing but IMO all you need to do is go to a few shows to see that the majority of professionals think it's okay to treat their horses like this. It is naive to think this is a rarity.

 

[Goldenstar]

TBh without the whole session it hard say but I would have the group at the other side of the water and the horses going round and coming towards the horses .
In low level training like that I would have all the horses going through the water first then trotting and cantering through on their own you dont see any the rest of the session .

Always defuse problems with water break them down into bits work on each bit then put all the bits together it’s the same with ditches and coffin type questions .
Someone as famous at MT once said to me don’t ever screw up with water or ditches or it comes back to bite you on the bum .
What that person meant was if it is never make it a problem then it never is a problem you might be able to wagon a horse through an intro water but if you won’t over an advanced .

 

[tristar]

On another thread I posted how this, in the wrong (usually inexperienced but not always) hands, this is actually a recipe for confirming to the horse that it is right to be afraid. And this is how the stable mentioned above ends up with a steam of horses coming in for remedial work who walk all over their owners.

IME ignoring the behaviour (or an "oh get on with it") is far more effective than reassurance, which can be interpreted as approval of poor behaviour.
.

i am dealing with big, bold, intelligent horses, they understand when i say to them, its ok mate, their knees may buckle, their eyes pop, but in the end they get it, and so we go on and progress, we end up laughing about it, and in the evening they come and put their heads in my arms for a love or a scratch, which means more tome me than any rosette

i am not responsible for other peoples failure to educate their own horses

 

[scats]

Did the video emerge as a sort of comedy thing (I think someone said the rider had added funny music to it?) and then people didn’t like it and started sharing it, or was the rider posting this video to show that she didn’t agree with what happened?
I wonder why it is only being posted now?

 

[Red-1]

i am dealing with big, bold, intelligent horses, they understand when i say to them, its ok mate, their knees may buckle, their eyes pop, but in the end they get it, and so we go on and progress, we end up laughing about it, and in the evening they come and put their heads in my arms for a love or a scratch, which means more tome me than any rosette

i am not responsible for other peoples failure to educate their own horses

I think it is also about finesse with timing. I'm sure that when they even 'think' forward, you take the pressure off.

 

[Roxylola]

I was on a clinic last spring with a well known well respected coach. A young horse known to them was there with its owner, a stablemate was also on the clinic, me and I think 1 other horse.
Said young horse ducked left repetitively over a fence, even jumping a bigger fence as an evasion. We were all "parked" to the left of the fence. After a number of attempts, a fair amount of criticism and instruction (fair but maybe harsh) from the coach I finally said maybe if we go stand more over there it will draw the horse a bit that way...
The rider on the stablemate was a bit huffy amd said well, if it makes you feel better we can. Unsurprisingly the horse was foot perfect next time. I've often both as a rider and trainer used other horses to help out a bit, it was blindingly obvious to me but hadn't occurred to the coach.

The video shows frustration and a lost temper. I have some sympathy for the coach, its not acceptable behaviour, it wasn't the way to deal with the issue, but I do think it's been blown a bit out of proportion. That doesn't mean I think its acceptable, I don't but I also don't think it makes Sir Mark an animal abuser. He got caught up and made a mistake.

 

[Chianti]

I'm used to go to events and shows, and watch on the TV, show jumping and eventing. I now rarely do as I'm so suspicious of the riders. After Oliver Townend and the 'win ugly' comment I sort of gave up. How that man is picked to ride for his country I have no idea. I'm suspicious of most of them. The smiles at the end of the round and the praise for the horse. I just wonder what goes on at home. I was on a yard a few years ago and a girl had a lovely gelding she'd bought to do low level eventing. He did well at a couple of events and then started stopping going down steps. She took him for a lesson with a 4 star event rider. I heard afterwards that the rider had managed to get him down steps but had to beat the s##t out of him to do so - to the extent that he marked the skin. At home the horse still stopped going down steps and when they eventually got the vet out it turned out he'd got kissing spine. The rider still competes.

 

[dixie]

This is a view of someone who was at the actual lesson - not me but copied from Facebook, for balance I suppose. ?
I’ve not actually seen the video myself.

View on the MT video…

I have always learnt their are 2 sides to every story and the truth, but I think this one may be a megagon ??
Here is a fact I WAS IN THAT LESSON.. I watched this first hand and honestly I’m SHOCKED. Look at the offending beating stick being held by Mark Todd Eventing on a still from my video…. If nothing else this picture alone shows there is much more to the background and truth of this story.

The reason this did not blow up sooner is quite simply because there was nothing to blow up!
Now I’m not going to lie, the video doesn’t look great the way it is being shown now… but can you really tell the full story from a 13 second video??? Please do share the prior videos when he was poking your horse up the bum with half a tree branch and hitting the ground behind it still with all the green leaves attached… we were all laughing and joking. You represented back to the situation at least 3,4 maybe 5 times knowing that he was supposedly “beating” your horse!!??? Seriously?? And all the 20/25 spectators just watched and allowed this to happen??? Really??? And not ONE person came forward until nearly 2years on????
What if I told you that that stick he was using was so rotten and bug eaten that each swing it was literally snapping off and breaking with less force than the slap of a bare hand.. and that is how I saw it. Although I’d assume if I saw wrong you would have photo evidence of your horses welt/beat marks right??? ?‍

We all have different ways of training our horses and certainly not a single person I know would “beat” their horse BUT from time to time sometimes you do get a naughty horse who needs a sharp smack. A horse who has gotten away with something for long enough will need a sharper and more persuading slap… and sadly this was the situation. This horse had switched off to the rider and Toddy was asked to fix it along with the rider agreeing.

On the day I’m not gonna lie, we were nearly wetting ourselves.. toddy hiding in the bush… horse approached water… started slamming the anchors on and out he would pop with what ever “weapon” he could find roaring from behind to get this horse in ?? Do you honestly think with his experience he would just have run behind a strange horse like that without consulting the rider?? Of course not. He knew that horse wouldn’t kick him/the rotten stick/the flappy tree because he was told by the rider! Jokes were still made about how appropriate it would be if he could hide and repeat this to help her on the actual XC course in competition ??
And this horse was not scared of the water, would happily jump in/run though but just wouldn’t step in and it said no.. the rider was left at a loss.

It’s very hard for these top riders to make huge improvements in a 60 or 90min group lesson. Generally they are teaching amateur riders with big dreams. And we are privileged to be able to have snippets into their ways of riding/teaching and subtle criticism of our bad habits.
In this instance he is damned if he fixed the situation quickly because now he’s a horse abuser… damned if he took an hour to fix it another way because the other 3 riders in the group would have been super pissed at their riding time being hogged… and he is damned if he just said oh well you problem as it would then be fed back ‘even Mark Todd couldn’t get my horse to jump into water’ ???

Equestrian world is so cut throat and all the snow flakes and keyboard warriors I am pretty sure have yanked/slapped/screamed at or got really frustrated with their horse from time to time. My groom once chased my nappy horse down the driveway with a straw broom stick poking and swishing it’s arse when he refused to go on a hack… at the time probably didn’t look pretty but it got the job done and that particular horse NEVER napped with me again ?? and has since gone on to become the best schoolmaster for all levels of rider. Rewind… say the groom didn’t chase her and poke/swoosh her arse with a broom and her napping got worse and more dangerous and boom… meat man maybe ?‍

I suppose my frustration here is WHY ARE WE SO QUICK TO TRY BRING EACH OTHER DOWN??? You are trying here to destroy a very kind and compassionate man who has done so much for the world of Eventing! You have edited and posted a video which does NOT tell the TRUTH and that is not fair!!
#BEKIND

 

[eahotson]

The 'why didn't the rider call it out at the time' comments smacks of some of the george morris situation to me.

To me it's pretty obvious why people don't call out all manner of things at the time. (see also the poster on here re. Lucinda Green's language)

Also it's possible to have a new opinion on your own actions in a situation with the passage of time.

I read the statement by Chloe who made some important points one of which is that she was only 21years of age at that time.She did not feel able to speak up to a much older Olympian sportsman.She was also frightened of the backlash which sadly she is getting now.It would help if people had somewhere they could voice their concerns,BSJA,BHS,British eventing/Dressage etc. where people would take note rather than having to resort to twitter et.al.

 

[eahotson]

This is a view of someone who was at the actual lesson - not me but copied from Facebook, for balance I suppose. ?
I’ve not actually seen the video myself.

View on the MT video…

I have always learnt their are 2 sides to every story and the truth, but I think this one may be a megagon ??
Here is a fact I WAS IN THAT LESSON.. I watched this first hand and honestly I’m SHOCKED. Look at the offending beating stick being held by Mark Todd Eventing on a still from my video…. If nothing else this picture alone shows there is much more to the background and truth of this story.

The reason this did not blow up sooner is quite simply because there was nothing to blow up!
Now I’m not going to lie, the video doesn’t look great the way it is being shown now… but can you really tell the full story from a 13 second video??? Please do share the prior videos when he was poking your horse up the bum with half a tree branch and hitting the ground behind it still with all the green leaves attached… we were all laughing and joking. You represented back to the situation at least 3,4 maybe 5 times knowing that he was supposedly “beating” your horse!!??? Seriously?? And all the 20/25 spectators just watched and allowed this to happen??? Really??? And not ONE person came forward until nearly 2years on????
What if I told you that that stick he was using was so rotten and bug eaten that each swing it was literally snapping off and breaking with less force than the slap of a bare hand.. and that is how I saw it. Although I’d assume if I saw wrong you would have photo evidence of your horses welt/beat marks right??? ?‍

We all have different ways of training our horses and certainly not a single person I know would “beat” their horse BUT from time to time sometimes you do get a naughty horse who needs a sharp smack. A horse who has gotten away with something for long enough will need a sharper and more persuading slap… and sadly this was the situation. This horse had switched off to the rider and Toddy was asked to fix it along with the rider agreeing.

On the day I’m not gonna lie, we were nearly wetting ourselves.. toddy hiding in the bush… horse approached water… started slamming the anchors on and out he would pop with what ever “weapon” he could find roaring from behind to get this horse in ?? Do you honestly think with his experience he would just have run behind a strange horse like that without consulting the rider?? Of course not. He knew that horse wouldn’t kick him/the rotten stick/the flappy tree because he was told by the rider! Jokes were still made about how appropriate it would be if he could hide and repeat this to help her on the actual XC course in competition ??
And this horse was not scared of the water, would happily jump in/run though but just wouldn’t step in and it said no.. the rider was left at a loss.

It’s very hard for these top riders to make huge improvements in a 60 or 90min group lesson. Generally they are teaching amateur riders with big dreams. And we are privileged to be able to have snippets into their ways of riding/teaching and subtle criticism of our bad habits.
In this instance he is damned if he fixed the situation quickly because now he’s a horse abuser… damned if he took an hour to fix it another way because the other 3 riders in the group would have been super pissed at their riding time being hogged… and he is damned if he just said oh well you problem as it would then be fed back ‘even Mark Todd couldn’t get my horse to jump into water’ ???

Equestrian world is so cut throat and all the snow flakes and keyboard warriors I am pretty sure have yanked/slapped/screamed at or got really frustrated with their horse from time to time. My groom once chased my nappy horse down the driveway with a straw broom stick poking and swishing it’s arse when he refused to go on a hack… at the time probably didn’t look pretty but it got the job done and that particular horse NEVER napped with me again ?? and has since gone on to become the best schoolmaster for all levels of rider. Rewind… say the groom didn’t chase her and poke/swoosh her arse with a broom and her napping got worse and more dangerous and boom… meat man maybe ?‍

I suppose my frustration here is WHY ARE WE SO QUICK TO TRY BRING EACH OTHER DOWN??? You are trying here to destroy a very kind and compassionate man who has done so much for the world of Eventing! You have edited and posted a video which does NOT tell the TRUTH and that is not fair!!
#BEKIND

Be kind to who? The rider? The trainer ? Or the horse?

 

[tristar]

There's a vast difference between getting annoyed or frustrated and beating up and/or inflicting pain on an animal.

I've managed to get annoyed and walk away. I've managed to suitably reprimand animals without terrorising them or inflicting pain. I've managed to train horses without ever using a whip, forcing them or beating them into submission.

If an idiot like me can manage it I'm not sure why anyone else can't...or more likely, won't.

But thanks for making it easier to know who to avoid posts from on here. Good luck with the gymnastics

it true there is no place for violence really
when a horse is standing on your foot, or about to crush you, you react how you need to to save yourself

when you are training it there is no place for sheer violence, it shows a shortcoming in the skills department

 

[TPO]

This is a view of someone who was at the actual lesson - not me but copied from Facebook, for balance I suppose. ?
I’ve not actually seen the video myself.

View on the MT video…

I have always learnt their are 2 sides to every story and the truth, but I think this one may be a megagon ??
Here is a fact I WAS IN THAT LESSON.. I watched this first hand and honestly I’m SHOCKED. Look at the offending beating stick being held by Mark Todd Eventing on a still from my video…. If nothing else this picture alone shows there is much more to the background and truth of this story.

The reason this did not blow up sooner is quite simply because there was nothing to blow up!
Now I’m not going to lie, the video doesn’t look great the way it is being shown now… but can you really tell the full story from a 13 second video??? Please do share the prior videos when he was poking your horse up the bum with half a tree branch and hitting the ground behind it still with all the green leaves attached… we were all laughing and joking. You represented back to the situation at least 3,4 maybe 5 times knowing that he was supposedly “beating” your horse!!??? Seriously?? And all the 20/25 spectators just watched and allowed this to happen??? Really??? And not ONE person came forward until nearly 2years on????
What if I told you that that stick he was using was so rotten and bug eaten that each swing it was literally snapping off and breaking with less force than the slap of a bare hand.. and that is how I saw it. Although I’d assume if I saw wrong you would have photo evidence of your horses welt/beat marks right??? ?‍

We all have different ways of training our horses and certainly not a single person I know would “beat” their horse BUT from time to time sometimes you do get a naughty horse who needs a sharp smack. A horse who has gotten away with something for long enough will need a sharper and more persuading slap… and sadly this was the situation. This horse had switched off to the rider and Toddy was asked to fix it along with the rider agreeing.

On the day I’m not gonna lie, we were nearly wetting ourselves.. toddy hiding in the bush… horse approached water… started slamming the anchors on and out he would pop with what ever “weapon” he could find roaring from behind to get this horse in ?? Do you honestly think with his experience he would just have run behind a strange horse like that without consulting the rider?? Of course not. He knew that horse wouldn’t kick him/the rotten stick/the flappy tree because he was told by the rider! Jokes were still made about how appropriate it would be if he could hide and repeat this to help her on the actual XC course in competition ??
And this horse was not scared of the water, would happily jump in/run though but just wouldn’t step in and it said no.. the rider was left at a loss.

It’s very hard for these top riders to make huge improvements in a 60 or 90min group lesson. Generally they are teaching amateur riders with big dreams. And we are privileged to be able to have snippets into their ways of riding/teaching and subtle criticism of our bad habits.
In this instance he is damned if he fixed the situation quickly because now he’s a horse abuser… damned if he took an hour to fix it another way because the other 3 riders in the group would have been super pissed at their riding time being hogged… and he is damned if he just said oh well you problem as it would then be fed back ‘even Mark Todd couldn’t get my horse to jump into water’ ???

Equestrian world is so cut throat and all the snow flakes and keyboard warriors I am pretty sure have yanked/slapped/screamed at or got really frustrated with their horse from time to time. My groom once chased my nappy horse down the driveway with a straw broom stick poking and swishing it’s arse when he refused to go on a hack… at the time probably didn’t look pretty but it got the job done and that particular horse NEVER napped with me again ?? and has since gone on to become the best schoolmaster for all levels of rider. Rewind… say the groom didn’t chase her and poke/swoosh her arse with a broom and her napping got worse and more dangerous and boom… meat man maybe ?‍

I suppose my frustration here is WHY ARE WE SO QUICK TO TRY BRING EACH OTHER DOWN??? You are trying here to destroy a very kind and compassionate man who has done so much for the world of Eventing! You have edited and posted a video which does NOT tell the TRUTH and that is not fair!!
#BEKIND

That reply just makes it worse IMO

Firstly people have eyes and he was whipping that horse with a branch. Surely at this point that undeniable?

Secondly, how sad that even now people still try to excuse that kind of behaviour and "training" as acceptable and that the horse "deserved" it.

Thirdly even if he had been waving a feather duster at it, is that acceptable training? To be poking a horse, hitting it, waving things and running out behind it to chase, scare and intimidate it into doing doing what they want?

To me idiotic responses like that just confirm the depth of the sickness that there is within the horse owning/keeping/riding/training/competing sector.

 

[Cortez]

That reply just makes it worse IMO

Firstly people have eyes and he was whipping that horse with a branch. Surely at this point that undeniable?

Secondly, how sad that even now people still try to excuse that kind of behaviour and "training" as acceptable and that the horse "deserved" it.

Thirdly even if he had been waving a feather duster at it, is that acceptable training? To be poking a horse, hitting it, waving things and running out behind it to chase, scare and intimidate it into doing doing what they want?

To me idiotic responses like that just confirm the depth of the sickness that there is within the horse owning/keeping/riding/training/competing sector.

I'd be taking the view of someone who was actually there and knows the horse and the rider over the opinions of those who weren't any day.