Indigo Irish Draughts - please read, a heads up.

Status
Not open for further replies.
I've known people with considerable legal and business experience whose wills have caused problems after death - including one not being properly executed. That one was a sudden death so perhaps he just kept thinking he'd get round to it (although that really wasn't the person he was) & the other was unclear enough to warrant a tonne of legal fees. I don't think the solicitors covered themselves in glory with either of those.

If Janet had discussed arrangements for her horses with a solicitor then perhaps she thought that was job done - but from the statement they've made on FB it sounds like she sadly ran out of time.
 
criso said:
I can still see the page but the post has been removed with the list of horses sent to the dealer so the link on the first page here won't work.
Click to expand...
The original Indigo Irish Draughts FB page still exists, but the executor has now taken over as admin and removed the former member of staff who took over as admin after Janet's death. Presumably the executor had access to Janet's log in details and was able to do this.

The new admin has removed the post I linked to in post#1, and all comments in it.

A new Indigo Irish Draughts 2.0 group, not under the control of the executor, has been set up to continue the discussion about the sold on horses. The original post is back up on there, but without the earlier comments including that from the professional Irish Draught breeder who had tried to assist in dispersing the horses to suitable homes or to PTS.
 
Full list of the horses that were sold

Indigo Final Saga
Indigo Pure Arrogance
Indigo Flight
Indigo Hosanna
Indigo Jubilee
Indigo Moon River
Indigo Diamond Surprise
Fleur (no indigo prefix)
Corraslira Cleo
Indigo Lady Ella
Indigo Hussy
Indigo Reflection
Indigo Tralee Rosebud
 
Cortez said:
Without intimate knowledge of the circumstances you cannot know that efforts to find buyers were perhaps unsuccessful, and rather than put down the remainder the executor was persuaded to pursue another avenue. Speculation without knowledge is not particularly useful.
Click to expand...
I do have a little insight into what was offered . Buyers came forward and offered to buy a number of them . In fact as mentioned by others a reputable breeder who knew Janet well offered a solution . Their advice / help was ignored .
Cortez said:
Having a comprehensive plan and communicating your wishes clearly is essential if you want to be sure of what happens after your death.
Click to expand...
Totally agree . Let’s hope one good thing comes out of this , in that we all make damn sure we have water right wills with every detail given .
 
Cortez said:
I wonder how many people commenting have ever had to deal with the sale of 18+ horses in one go? To someone who isn't a horse person and unlikely to understand the finer points of soundness or suitability, it would be almost impossible to implement without the input of a specialist. A horse dealer is precisely the avenue that would be reasonable to employ.
Click to expand...
absolutely 100%. Cortez has made the most sensible and reasonable comments on this whole thread. I applaud her intelligence and realism.
 
Just for info I have completed a new will this week however until all completed my old one stands. So whilst my solicitor knows about the new one obviously if something happens in the interim then the old one legally stands. Wishes and desires are not legally binding unless included on the will formally. Fortunately my friends would do the right thing? I assume? But one never ever knows.
 
Last edited:
Remember too that it's not just about stating your wishes as to what you would like to happen to your animals, it's about making provision for them, so that this is possible. I remember drafting a Will for a chap (in the days when I had a proper job) who wanted his whole estate to go to the care of his parrot. The Will was very detailed as to who looked after the parrot, with fail safes, and who was responsible for the money, and whether there was enough to allow for the lifetime of the bird. Potentially he could have just gifted the parrot to a friend and thought the job was done, but what about the friend's life, finances, desire to be a parrot owner? All those things were covered.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I think the point is that many of the horses weren't actually fit for sale and at least one alternative had been offered.
Click to expand...
This 100%, for those who are posting without reading or taking aboard posts from people who knew the set up 😬.

Should Janet have set her affairs in order and made it clear what was to happen to the horses in the event of her death? Absolutely yes, and she had been in ill health for a long time.

After her death, enquiries from good known people about particular horses were rebuffed. These were people known to Janet and the yard staff. Not people wanting to buy for a pittance, but genuine buyers who were turned away. So early opportunities to reduce the number of horses left at the stud were not taken.

Then the professional Irish Draught breeder stepped in, who was in the process of assessing what/which horses were fit to be sold, or ought better be PTS. He was rebuffed.

I don't know many of the horses listed, or their individual issues, but I do remember one, who I rode several times. Who on earth advised the executor to sell on to a dealer the 18yo Brooklet, Indigo Pure Reflection, who had lived at the stud for 16 years or so after Janet took her back when she failed to settle after being sold as a young horse?
 
Last edited:
I am sorry for these horses and can only hope they end up in good homes or resting peacefully. I know little about the case but can see all sides (except that of unscrupulous dealers).

At least Janet will never know this outcome occurred, little consolation but you know what I mean. It is certainly a good reminder to make provision for our animals in a way that is practical and able to be upheld when we have passed on.
 
Indigo Pure Arrogance (Buck), the gelded and somewhat sharp former working stallion, was returned PDQ by a purchaser when sold by a dealer in Cheshire, who tbf may have been herself been unaware that he had been a working entire. The purchaser certainly wasn't aware. She intended to keep him but it didn't work out at all.

So he's now popped up for £6k in Yorkshire, and lost a year in age.
 
Please everyone sort out your wills. Not only for your animals safety but for everyone’s peace of mind.

Unmarried Auntie always said ‘My family know what I want’. There wasn’t a will and she had very little, didn’t own a property.
One reasonably distant young family member jumped in. Visited hospital often as lived close. Hospital staff incorrectly thought he was next of kin, goodness knows how. Almost everything was donated to a charity before my very elderly father, her older brother and next of kin, got to the house. Family memories gone in an instant.
It wasn’t valuable in cash terms but Dad cried when he realised what had gone.

When will we learn that not legally sorting our affairs however young we are leads not only to confusion but expense, acrimony and in my view the worst thing, that the deceased wishes are not carried out correctly.
 
Lexi 123 said:
Unfortunately I had a look at the new Facebook page it looked it turning’s into witch hunt.
Click to expand...

It doesn't read like that to me at all.

There are 6 posts in total. 2 of which are photos, another is a happy birthday to their Indigo horse. Another explains why the group has been set up and the last 2 share information about their attempts to find alternative options for the horses being sent to a dealer and trying to find them. The comments about the executor are very sad and aren't favourable, but neither do they seem nasty.

That's not a witch hunt in my book. They seem to be very concerned in tracing the horses and all credit to them for that.

Apologies - totally re-written rather than deleted.
 
Last edited:
Surbie said:
It doesn't read like that to me at all.

Rather that people are sharing their side of what happened, including information on the interventions to buy a lot of the horses that went to dealers. Fair enough - all of that was shut down by the person running the other page. And the rest of the posts (and there aren't many) appear to be focused on trying to trace the horses that went to the dealers.
Click to expand...
If there is any hint of legal dispute it is usual to remove obfuscation and make things available out in a neutral domain so that bias and favouritism is avoided. Presumably if people want to buy the horses they could go to the dealer and make an offer?
 
Cortez said:
Well of course it is; the internet loves a witch hunt, and the wilder and less rational the better.
Click to expand...
It is not an irrational witch hunt, it is mostly posts from people who were up at the sharp end sharing their attempts to get better outcomes both for the horses and as a consequence, for Janet's estate.

Attempts that were brushed aside and rebuffed.
 
Rupert2021 said:
Yes and removed a member of staff that worked for Janet for ten years up until the end
Click to expand...
You have no idea of the value of the estate and how they would have to be paid.
When my MIL died the bank arranged a cleaner, someone to cut the grass, asked the children what they wanted out of the house, sold the rest at auction and handled the sale of the house, so after all the fees the rest apart from a couple of bequests was divided for the children. I can not imagine how someone with a legal responsibilty could handle, the responsiblity of is it eighteen horses, at a reasonable cost,( grass livery at £25 a week, each?) unfortuately there are a lot of people who may be classed as experienced but unless they are charging a fee and have some sort of legal liabilty insurance their experience is worth nothing, in the paper trail of law and liability.
 
Cortez said:
If there is any hint of legal dispute it is usual to remove obfuscation and make things available out in a neutral domain so that bias and favouritism is avoided. Presumably if people want to buy the horses they could go to the dealer and make an offer?
Click to expand...
Sorry, I re-wrote my post. Where is the legal dispute?

Other than Buck, the other horses don't seem to have been traced as far as I can see.
 
Surbie said:
Sorry, I re-wrote my post. Where is the legal dispute?

Other than Buck, the other horses don't seem to have been traced as far as I can see.
Click to expand...
I have no idea of the ins and outs of this particular behest, but every executor has a legal route and best practice protocols to follow. It is absolutely amazing what happens when there is an estate to disburse.
 
Cortez said:
If there is any hint of legal dispute it is usual to remove obfuscation and make things available out in a neutral domain so that bias and favouritism is avoided. Presumably if people want to buy the horses they could go to the dealer and make an offer?
Click to expand...
Is there a hint of legal dispute? Who would be in a position to raise a dispute? JG obviously isn't and the horses can't. So long as the staff were dealt with correctly under employment law, and no-one has suggested that they weren't, no-one else has a legal interest, so far as I can tell.
Of course if there is evidence of financial/legal wrong-doing on the part of the Executor, the Law Society will be interested and would probably be IT literate enough to spot potential witnesses from their FB posts.
 
honetpot said:
You have no idea of the value of the estate and how they would have to be paid.
When my MIL died the bank arranged a cleaner, someone to cut the grass, asked the children what they wanted out of the house, sold the rest at auction and handled the sale of the house, so after all the fees the rest apart from a couple of bequests was divided for the children. I can not imagine how someone with a legal responsibilty could handle, the responsiblity of is it eighteen horses, at a reasonable cost,( grass livery at £25 a week, each?) unfortuately there are a lot of people who may be classed as experienced but unless they are charging a fee and have some sort of legal liabilty insurance their experience is worth nothing, in the paper trail of law and liability.
Click to expand...
Actually the value of the estate is a matter of public record and has been posted upthread.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Is there a hint of legal dispute? Who would be in a position to raise a dispute? JG obviously isn't and the horses can't. So long as the staff were dealt with correctly under employment law, and no-one has suggested that they weren't, no-one else has a legal interest, so far as I can tell.
Of course if there is evidence of financial/legal wrong-doing on the part of the Executor, the Law Society will be interested and would probably be IT literate enough to spot potential witnesses from their FB posts.
Click to expand...
There is always a possibility/hint of dispute where wills are concerned.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top