It happened again.

[PinkvSantaboots]

It might be a bit of excitement with the poles Arabi will start jogging and throw himself about even just walking over poles in hand.

But if your worried speak to your vet.

 

[Goldenstar]

I would back off to single poles dotted around the school do that for a week then try the four in a line again .

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would back off to single poles dotted around the school do that for a week then try the four in a line again .

This is actually a good point I only start with 2 in a row with any rehab I don't continually go over them either I will walk round the whole school then go over again rather than turn and go again.

It's quite an intense work out if they are not used to it.

 

[Goldenstar]

Single poles allowed you to desensitise a reactive horse more easily than a line which can excite them .
never let him be sure where your heading him walking over single poles on the curve is good work I like to use two poles on opposite half’s of a circle raised on the inside ( just slightly at first ) .I start the circle at about 15 m diameter and gradual make it smaller .
I had one who was very excitable when poles where introduced it just took time to get him to settle down and work could start .
he was time consuming I did ten minutes five times a day to keep him settled .

 

[J_sarahd]

Thanks guys, I’ll see how she reacts with just one or two poles. I assumed 4 would be good because she’s done a fair bit of polework (in-hand and ridden). and doesn’t really get excited by them

 

[J_sarahd]

A bit of an update - things seem to be going quite well. We are doing lots of groundwork, in-hand poles, in-hand hacking and lunging.

We’ve introduced trotting on the lunge again and it’s been a bit hell raising. The first time, I gave up very quickly as she was just bucking and rearing everywhere and the second time, she was definitely feeling some kind of way as there were people on the other side of the hedge and there was squealing and tail up - bearing in mind that this mare has been schooled whilst combine harvesters go past the hedge, let alone people. But she did eventually settle to produce a lovely stretchy trot on both reins.

I’ve noticed though that she is more reluctant on the left rein, which is the way she doesn’t step through as much with her hind leg when doing small circles. Not sure if it’s just a coincidence - as she was rather fresh both lunges - or something to keep an eye on or what? Strangely, that’s the way I’d consider her stronger rein.

All in all, things are going quite well. I’ve still got the overwhelming feeling that I’m not doing things right or that I’m doing the wrong thing. But, from reading facebook posts and blogs, I think that’s normal for rehabbing a horse from anything.

 

[J_sarahd]

So I have made the decision to send Nova on rehab livery. She is going on Monday and I don’t know quite how I feel about it. Part of me is relieved and happy but the other part of me feels like I’m letting her down and I’m not good enough to rehab her. Deep down, though, I know this is the best thing for both of us.

I was saying to a friend that if it were “normal” rehab, I’d find it hard but not as hard as kissing spine rehab. I didn’t quite realise how difficult it is when you’re not only building their strength up but also changing their way of going. She has become a little bit tricky to handle (I have warned the rehab place of this) and honestly, it’s just becoming too much for me so I think I’ll really appreciate the break. I have ponies I can ride for the 6 weeks she’s away, which I’m so grateful for.

I’ll miss her as she is such a nice person and I love seeing her everyday but the yard is only 6 miles from my house so I can go and visit her. I’m trying to give myself some positivity that after all this, she will be such a good horse and we can still go on to achieve my goals (holding on to that hope until it’s evident that it won’t happen - if/when -, so please no one burst my bubble!)

 

[ycbm]

You've done the right thing for you both. I hope you get her back transformed.
.

 

[Bernster]

Is it KS rehab? If so, I’d agree it can be quite tricky. I have a now retired KS mare. Her rehab went well but I had a great yard who helped me. It took a lot of time and gradual work to get there. I did think about sending her to a proper rehab facility so I totally understand why you’d want to (please check it’s a reliable one!). 6 weeks probably only gives you the start tbh. Mine took over 6 months to get fully back to work.

I also assume the KS has been treated, plus any secondary or related issues (which seem v common) so her behaviour is not due to ongoing pain etc. Sorry to ask but I tend to think that, if a horse improves with rehab and training, that’s a sign it’s going well, but if it gets worse, that may be a sign of an undetected problem.

 

[J_sarahd]

Is it KS rehab? If so, I’d agree it can be quite tricky. I have a now retired KS mare. Her rehab went well but I had a great yard who helped me. It took a lot of time and gradual work to get there. I did think about sending her to a proper rehab facility so I totally understand why you’d want to (please check it’s a reliable one!). 6 weeks probably only gives you the start tbh. Mine took over 6 months to get fully back to work.

I also assume the KS has been treated, plus any secondary or related issues (which seem v common) so her behaviour is not due to ongoing pain etc. Sorry to ask but I tend to think that, if a horse improves with rehab and training, that’s a sign it’s going well, but if it gets worse, that may be a sign of an undetected problem.

Yeah kissing spine rehab. To be honest, I am happy to continue the work after and pay for the support I need. I just need someone with more knowledge and experience to get her into a place where I can more easily take over. I don’t think what I’ve done so far has been wrong or detrimental.

Yes she has been treated. She was improving and then since all the bad weather and now cold weather, she has been just a bit springy to bring in but only sometimes. Like yesterday, she was a dope on a rope but Saturday, she was flailing around. She was quite similar to this the same sort of time last year as I remember asking about it on my instagram. She was trying to nip me occasionally yesterday, when I in-hand hacked her but she is a dominant mare so not sure if that has something to do with it as it was very similar to how they move the herd.

 

[Bernster]

And the other important element ofc is the impact it has on the owner. It really can take its toll. Hopefully a prof set up will give you some piece of mind. I ended up doing 2 years of on/off rehab and, by the time I got the 3rd diagnosis, I called it a day for both me and her. She’s been happy as a pig in ssss at retirement livery ever since !

 

[meandmyself]

I'm still reading the thread but has she been tested for pssm? We have one at work who has it and she's much worse in the cold (which makes sense because it makes them stiff and sore!)

Hers is managed nicely by diet but I'm not exactly sure what they give her!

 

[J_sarahd]

I'm still reading the thread but has she been tested for pssm? We have one at work who has it and she's much worse in the cold (which makes sense because it makes them stiff and sore!)

Hers is managed nicely by diet but I'm not exactly sure what they give her!

This is interesting and I’d not thought of pssm as obviously when they found the ks, I didn’t really give anything else much thought!

 

[rextherobber]

I thought KS was caused by compensatory movement from "something ", rather than a thing a horse was born with? A bit like ulcers being a secondary thing. I have a horse that had ulcers, caused by KS, which turned out to have been caused by compensatory movement from a malformed C6. I also had the highly controversial hair test done for PSSM/MIM, when we were in our clutching at straws phase, she apparently has a form of it, but frankly it's nothing that keeping well rugged and a low sugar/starch diet wouldn't sort, if there was no other physical issue. I think an awful lot of horses with KS and/or PSSM/MIM have other issues going on. If you read some of the stories on the online PSSM groups, it does make you wonder why the owners are so 100% certain all of their horse's issues are PSSM related.
Good call with sending away for rehab, I hope you enjoy the break, and Nova comes home a happier horse!

 

[ycbm]

I thought KS was caused by compensatory movement from "something ", rather than a thing a horse was born with?

The surgeon who operated on mine said he sees them at 3 ages, those who showed problems from first being sat on, who were born with them, then around 7 which is either caused by how they were working or they can have been born with them but they are now affected by their work, then at around 12 which is normally caused by how they have been moving.

Mine was born with extra thick DSPs behind the saddle, there was simply no room for them .
.

 

[sbloom]

Because long term soundness is barely a consideration in breeding, and obviously research has been conducted into it, genetics are a component. I wonder if location is part of it too, ycbm's case, behind the saddle, is a less mobile part of the back, but under the saddle there is huge scope for the horse to lift and open up the spaces. I'm sure that correct work is more effective in the latter case than the former but for sure, it is SO often part of a compensation, but there are theories that those compensations can go right back to birth trauma, so not necessarily about an obvious more recent event causing the compensation.

I have seen one professional say that every single ks horse she has seen has npa I think in the hind feet, and hocks, suspensories, SI and front feet are often affected. Even standing the horse up and observing how it prefers to stand, and its musculature, can give us clues as to how it's moving. Correct the movement pattern and there's more hope for managing these conditions, especially if medical treatment can give a pain free window of time to get cracking.

 

[ycbm]

I have seen one professional say that every single ks horse she has seen has npa I think in the hind feet, and hocks, suspensories, SI and front feet are often affected. Even standing the horse up and observing how it prefers to stand, and its musculature, can give us clues as to how it's moving. Correct the movement pattern and there's more hope for managing these conditions, especially if medical treatment can give a pain free window of time to get cracking.

I struggled with Ace's front feet running forward for a year before we got a kissing spines diagnosis. I couldn't understand it at all, there seemed to be no reason for it. In that time he also developed a kind of "reverse dish" movement in his right fore, which was very noticeable because I made sure I bought a straight moving horse. That foreleg movement came straight after he was operated on.

He certainly opened my eyes to how kissing spines can affect others part of the horse.
.

 

[dapple_grey]

I thought KS was caused by compensatory movement from "something ", rather than a thing a horse was born with?

There was a really interesting study published in H&H a few months ago involving the link between KS and genetics in Thoroughbreds. They studied two groups of TB's; the first were yearlings, unbroken and unraced but bred to do so. The second group were older TB's, all ranging between heavily and lightly raced. They X-rayed the backs of all the TB's and they found both groups had the same amount of kissing spines and there was no significant difference between the two. I'll try and find a link to the study.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

You are doing the right thing totally I would probably send a ks horse away for rehab as well, I've rehabbed mine several times for different things and that was hard enough.

Don't be hard on yourself the rehab yard will do a grand job and hopefully you will have a lovely strong fixed horse back x

 

[sbloom]

There was a really interesting study published in H&H a few months ago involving the link between KS and genetics in Thoroughbreds. They studied two groups of TB's; the first were yearlings, unbroken and unraced but bred to do so. The second group were older TB's, all ranging between heavily and lightly raced. They X-rayed the backs of all the TB's and they found both groups had the same amount of kissing spines and there was no significant difference between the two. I'll try and find a link to the study.

TBs still are bred to be fast, whether they raced or not. They need to be on the forehand to be fast....ultimately if horses aren't at least slightly pushing up in front then they're in at least a slight degree of compensation when they carry us and, in fact, much of the time. I find it fascinating when horses go through postural rehab that they move differently in the field, and often their personality "softens", calming if they're anxious types, and being more forwards and enthusiastic if previously shut down.

 

[IrishMilo]

Sounds like a great option. I think if something like this was needed for one of mine I'd do it now too. It's such a long old slog, especially in the horrible, muddy winter!

 

[rextherobber]

The surgeon who operated on mine said he sees them at 3 ages, those who showed problems from first being sat on, who were born with them, then around 7 which is either caused by how they were working or they can have been born with them but they are now affected by their work, then at around 12 which is normally caused by how they have been moving.

Mine was born with extra thick DSPs behind the saddle, there was simply no room for them .
.

This makes sense, mine was 13!

 

[SEL]

Rehab is exhausting especially in winter. I can remember vets asking me to build up the in hand work I was doing to two sessions either end of the day - it was February, I work full time and didn't have lights in my field "arena". I nearly cried

Plus rehab yards are experienced at dealing with horses when they get a bit tricky to handle so hopefully you'll have her back showing huge improvement by Spring

 

[J_sarahd]

Thank you everyone. I am feeling a bit better about it now that I’ve dropped her off.

She has settled in well. Me and the woman share a huge interest and adoration of Simon Coccozza, which makes me happy.

 

[ycbm]

She's got a beautiful head, hasn't she Sarah?
.

 

[Lamehorses]

The surgeon who operated on mine said he sees them at 3 ages, those who showed problems from first being sat on, who were born with them, then around 7 which is either caused by how they were working or they can have been born with them but they are now affected by their work, then at around 12 which is normally caused by how they have been moving.

Mine was born with extra thick DSPs behind the saddle, there was simply no room for them .

That's interesting, mine was diagnosed at 7, although in hind sight realised she was showing signs for the previous 9 months I'd owned her. Some days she would just politely grind to a halt infront of jumps & refuse to move. Other days she would seemingly happily jump a metre.
I later found out this started before I owned her.
Her main issue was also behind her saddle, which probably explains why jumping was the thing that triggered her.
I can't believe she never catapulted me over a jump, it was always a polite slowing

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

She's got a beautiful head, hasn't she Sarah?
.

She is lovely and has those big sad dear eyes

 

[CanteringCarrot]

She's got a beautiful head, hasn't she Sarah?
.

Just came here to say that!

Love a beautiful bay TB mare

 

[McGrools]

Thank you everyone. I am feeling a bit better about it now that I’ve dropped her off. View attachment 132294

She has settled in well. Me and the woman share a huge interest and adoration of Simon Coccozza, which makes me happy.

I love Simon Coozza too. Everything I ride atm does some nose to the floor steps. Xx

 

[McGrools]

There was a really interesting study published in H&H a few months ago involving the link between KS and genetics in Thoroughbreds. They studied two groups of TB's; the first were yearlings, unbroken and unraced but bred to do so. The second group were older TB's, all ranging between heavily and lightly raced. They X-rayed the backs of all the TB's and they found both groups had the same amount of kissing spines and there was no significant difference between the two. I'll try and find a link to the study.

That is really interesting. Would love to see the link.
Xx