Oliver Townend Fence 4 (Shallow Springs)

[Honey08]

I thought the last fence was deliberately off a turn to try and reduce the likelihood of running too long into it and splatting.

Yes that’s the theory, but it never looks pretty at Badminton. They push them up the hill, pull them back for the fence, then push on for the finish. There seem to be more ugly finishes/collapses at Badminton than Burghley or Bramham, for example, where the fences aren’t on a curve. I don’t like the arena start/finish- it must take the horse’s attention when the crowd cheers as the horse approaches the last fence. I much prefer the start/finish at Burghley.

 

[ester]

Yup that's my impression of having been to both a fair bit now. The turn is supposed to balance them but viewing it it often seems to do the opposite

 

[suebou]

No comments on the winners series of photos showing horse leaving a leg/ tripping and another fabulous recovery from the rider?

 

[ester]

If you link them and start a thread there probably would be ?

 

[Kat]

I watched Maxim Livio on the live stream, it has been cut from the replay. However I recall them looking fine over the first two thirds of the course, the horse started to tire but didn't look more tired than many others, he looked a bit more tired over the second last but he still picked up and jumped, he was clearly flagging coming to the last but it wasn't obvious that he was too tired to complete safely. He picked up to jump and looked as though he was going to jump it but the landing gear just didn't work and he crumpled.

I obviously don't know what the rider felt but I don't think the officials should be criticised, there was limited time to make a decision and they were approaching the last fence.

 

[Honey08]

No comments on the winners series of photos showing horse leaving a leg/ tripping and another fabulous recovery from the rider?

To be fair, a lot of people said that the first half of her round hasn’t been pretty and that the hold seemed to have worked out for her.

 

[teapot]

No comments on the winners series of photos showing horse leaving a leg/ tripping and another fabulous recovery from the rider?

LC has a core of steel and is as fit as they come! She was also the first to admit the hold did them some good, and think it was the eggs fence (??) that gave them a wake up call.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I didn't think that London 52, judging on the way that he jumped before the hold, would complete the course. For whatever reason he was finding some of the questions pretty hard. I assessed him as not scopey enough for Badminton. It was not pretty. He was much better after the hold - the hold certainly worked in his favour.

No comments on the winners series of photos showing horse leaving a leg/ tripping and another fabulous recovery from the rider?

How about rather than just dissing folk for not mentioning the photos, you post a link to them ?‍? I haven't seen them, so can't comment.

 

[TheMule]

I didn't think that London 52, judging on the way that he jumped before the hold, would complete the course. For whatever reason he was finding some of the questions pretty hard. I assessed him as not scopey enough for Badminton. It was not pretty. He was much better after the hold - the hold certainly worked in his favour.

How about rather than just dissing folk for not mentioning the photos, you post a link to them ?‍? I haven't seen them, so can't comment.

Not scopey enough?! The horse is insanely talented IMO!
I think he would have got round as the main questions were out the way, but I think she had gone out pretty hard and fast and his lack of TB was slightly catching up with him in the most intense part of the course so I don’t think he would have gone inside the time.

 

[suebou]

I didn't think that London 52, judging on the way that he jumped before the hold, would complete the course. For whatever reason he was finding some of the questions pretty hard. I assessed him as not scopey enough for Badminton. It was not pretty. He was much better after the hold - the hold certainly worked in his favour.

How about rather than just dissing folk for not mentioning the photos, you post a link to them ?‍? I haven't seen them, so can't comment.

Laura has posted them on her own page. Not for me to link I’m afraid. I thought they were both incredible bits of riding but reading this thread, I can see there’s different opinions…. He clearly left a leg on the fence and she continued ??‍

 

[shortstuff99]

They're on her public page

Link here, she did a great job and a good seat!

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=548981493290164&id=100045349546091

 

[Red-1]

he rode the first element a bit behind the balance, then remembered the second element was wider and flapped a flappylegs and seat thing threw the reins at the horse, lovely pony club style, probably the horse thought he had asked it to take off.


the reason he stayed on is not because he so brilliant, is that as he fell to the right the horse turned to the right and picked him up and saved him, or he would have been decked

I saw Oliver give a frantic kick a couple out too. I dare say he was trying to correct confidence, line, engagement or 'something' but it seems that the horse thought it was to take off, so he did.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=515383100061197&extid=NS-UNK-UNK-UNK-IOS_GK0T-GK1C&ref=sharing

I actually thought the horse was very obedient!

 

[Rowreach]

Laura has posted them on her own page. Not for me to link I’m afraid. I thought they were both incredible bits of riding but reading this thread, I can see there’s different opinions…. He clearly left a leg on the fence and she continued ??‍

I get (got) what you’re saying and I agree. Why does one rider get flamed when a similar incident is ignored?

I have my own views on this year’s track (I’ve never seen so many top riders have to work so hard, or comment on how tough the track was - usually people who’ve romped round say what a brilliant ride they’ve had, but most of them looked relieved to be done). But if you think OT should have pulled up after his mistake, then anyone else who survives leaving a leg/twisting in the air/pecking on landing should too.

 

[TheMule]

The stats indicate that it was a significantly easier xc than 'normal'. The global clear rate at 5* is 50%

 

[ycbm]

They're on her public page

Link here, she did a great job and a good seat!

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=548981493290164&id=100045349546091

I absolutely admire her stickability. Top class. But these days I hate looking at pictures of a horse scrabbling to keep control of its half a ton of weight and not break its neck or a leg. I struggle to support the use of horses at top level any more, and I have a good idea what Joe Public thinks when they see pictures like those. For all sorts of reasons, not least climate change, I think Equestrian sports at the Olympics are time limited now.
.

 

[Goldenstar]

I didn't think that London 52, judging on the way that he jumped before the hold, would complete the course. For whatever reason he was finding some of the questions pretty hard. I assessed him as not scopey enough for Badminton. It was not pretty. He was much better after the hold - the hold certainly worked in his favour.

How about rather than just dissing folk for not mentioning the photos, you post a link to them ?‍? I haven't seen them, so can't comment.

London 52 is probably the best horse in world atm he has huge amount of scope and a very very quick mind he is a purpose bred warmblood with eventing in mind .
They don’t run these horses as much as they used to be . I think that can lead to the horses being overly keen XC at a big one .
Those stills show a horse with its eyes open he knows exactly how he’s going to get a leg on the ground and save himself his rider who is extremely strong and fit is in a position to survive the forces of gravity and stay with her horse .
The training of event horses so they are thinking for themselves and listening to the rider is an amazing skill both OT’s horse and London52 show this in spades in these two incidents .

 

[Rowreach]

The stats indicate that it was a significantly easier xc than 'normal'. The global clear rate at 5* is 50%

View attachment 92421

I don’t think you can take a comparison like that and read anything into it. That isn’t statistics …

 

[J&S]

I might be delving in "cancel culture" terrotory here but I think that the sports of xc riding/steeple chasing etc derived from the military and so the essence of it was to "deliver the message" as fast as possible, during war or peace. The cavalry would have been trained to ride over and through all terrain at a terrific pace (see those films of the italians going down sheer drops, jumping rivers etc!) and the riders job would have been to stay on his horse what ever. I am not a great OT fan but this is exactly what he did, he stayed in the plate and carried on, Laura too, I have nothing but admiration for them.

 

[eahotson]

Am copying and pasting a PUBLIC Facebook post by Natalie McGoldrick. An equine vet and 4* rider who, in my humble opinion, talks a lot of sense.

As this thread is in Tack Room it is public and therefore equates to posting on Facebook rather than being in a members only part of the Forum.

Hugely upsetting to see that the Facebook ground jury and “experts”, most of whom couldn’t even get round a 90, have yet again been out in force today. I would hope none of you who have written vile comments about ANY of the riders tackling Badminton today, follow this page. If you do, kindly b****r off now.
Cross country riding at that level (I only have experience at the level below, but I would imagine it’s similar) is intense. As riders, we have to make split second decisions as to whether to push for a long stride, or hold for a short; sometimes the horse takes that decision away from us. If we’ve survived a sticky jump, we make the split second decision as to whether to carry on and see how our horse feels over the next fence, or to pull up; today, that decision for Oli was whether to pull up at pretty much the biggest 5* in the World.
STOP the vile comments!!! STOP posting screen shots to demonstrate how the ground jury were incorrect, and yet you (most probably sat at home on your sofa, having never jumped bigger than an 80) were absolutely correct, and the ground jury were blind. Just mutter to yourself, and SHUT UP! YOU, the Facebook expert, are not about to be asked by the Badminton ground jury to give your opinion, so shut up! Please remember which owner/stud Oli now rides for, and why. I’m sure most of the “experts” stating how “vile” Oli was for not jumping off to check how his horse was, post those ridiculous “Be Kind” profile photos. Practice what you preach.
When we Event at a high level, we will know by the next fence at the very latest, if our horses aren’t right, and we will pull up. Most of us don’t need to get off to know if our horse has injured itself. When my horse, Harry, suffered an 80% rupture of his tendon whilst out on XC at the 3* Europeans, I had a huge battle to pull him up. I could just feel that something wasn’t right. I didn’t need to pull up and get off to know. Just as Oli didn’t need to get off Swallow Springs today to know if he was injured. The way he carried on jumping, he clearly just suffered a bruise at worst.
These top horses are probably looked after much better than a lot of your own horses. These horses wouldn’t have to wait a minute, let alone a day, to see a vet for anything, to try and avoid an emergency fee. The fitness of these horses is monitored to the millimetre; I’ve seen more welfare issues with fat/unfit horses (and riders) competing at grassroots. There are also more pressing welfare concerns with ponies that are so overweight that they have to live in a stable for 20 hours a day to avoid laminitis. These Event horses receive the best of everything.
Watch Badminton, and enjoy watching the absolute TOP equine athletes you will ever be lucky enough to see. The ground jury honestly don’t need your help. More than anything, these riders, who work harder than anyone I know, don’t need to read your s**t on social media.
Rant over.

https://www.facebook.com/southcoastequinevets/photos/a.544042175653007/5195681840488994/?__cft__[0]=AZW1-H-Lov04XB_h_IjcPl-zJIJfy3GRttbYrU3oWWI0gakoaQaoSU-E2K2deGMr6IXZp2GoID4030cnWouxRz.WreYXICHhuOFc3rEtq4BoMZvn0JwI1FCmFPTOHbLdIJtZq484FTJKb7jQ2LQuBn4KT&__tn__=EH-R

Pammy Hutton once wrote that Mr.Mrs Bloggs may not know much about the finer points of dressage but they do know animal cruelty when they see it.I don't think that you have to have ridden round Badminton etc. to pass an opinion.I have a trainer who has and she is often disgusted at some of the things she sees.I don't watch horse sports (any) very much these days.

 

[TheMule]

I don’t think you can take a comparison like that and read anything into it. That isn’t statistics …

I agree that comparing 3 years is limited, but he chose a 'typical year', 2017 and a 'hard year', 2014 to be reasonably representative. And the 50% stat is across a number of events over a number of year.

 

[meleeka]

This just popped up on my FB. Laura’s hatcam https://fb.watch/cX7P6ZZJPw/

 

[shortstuff99]

I absolutely admire her stickability. Top class. But these days I hate looking at pictures of a horse scrabbling to keep control of its half a ton of weight and not break its neck or a leg. I struggle to support the use of horses at top level any more, and I have a good idea what Joe Public thinks when they see pictures like those. For all sorts of reasons, not least climate change, I think Equestrian sports at the Olympics are time limited now.
.

I do feel the pictures make it look a lot more dramatic then the video. On video it was half a second of left a leg and then all legs were on the ground and he was away.

 

[tristar]

Pammy Hutton once wrote that Mr.Mrs Bloggs may not know much about the finer points of dressage but they do know animal cruelty when they see it.I don't think that you have to have ridden round Badminton etc. to pass an opinion.I have a trainer who has and she is often disgusted at some of the things she sees.I don't watch horse sports (any) very much these days.

may be an evolved view point

sure you are not alone

 

[Sossigpoker]

I agree that comparing 3 years is limited, but he chose a 'typical year', 2017 and a 'hard year', 2014 to be reasonably representative. And the 50% stat is across a number of events over a number of year.

As a statistician ,.just came here to say that just because the completion rate appears higher , this is in no way evidence of the course being easier.
We could calculate statistics for this purpose and do some significance testing , but that would involve a lot more than just the XC completion rates.
Don't forget that there was a hold on the course , which alone may have helped some combination complete the course, as well as other potential influences.

 

[Lexi_]

Laura has posted them on her own page. Not for me to link I’m afraid. I thought they were both incredible bits of riding but reading this thread, I can see there’s different opinions…. He clearly left a leg on the fence and she continued ??‍

But it’s not at all the same sort of incident as Oli’s one so why the comparison? I don’t agree with the people saying he should have been automatically pulled up, but their reasoning is that it was quite close to a horse fall. If you’re going to automatically eliminate any horse that catches a toe or knee on a fence even when it causes no incident whatsoever, then there’s literally no point running an XC competition. Not every jump will be textbook.

 

[milliepops]

But it’s not at all the same sort of incident as Oli’s one so why the comparison? I don’t agree with the people saying he should have been automatically pulled up, but their reasoning is that it was quite close to a horse fall. If you’re going to automatically eliminate any horse that catches a toe or knee on a fence even when it causes no incident whatsoever, then there’s literally no point running an XC competition. Not every jump will be textbook.

i agree with what you're saying, but i can also understand making the comparison, because "almost a horse fall" is by definition *not* a horse fall, and therefore laura's toe catch is kind of similar, in being an incident where the consequence in terms of the horse maybe picking up an injury are unknown but the rider is able to continue.

 

[Cragrat]

But it’s not at all the same sort of incident as Oli’s one so why the comparison? I don’t agree with the people saying he should have been automatically pulled up, but their reasoning is that it was quite close to a horse fall. If you’re going to automatically eliminate any horse that catches a toe or knee on a fence even when it causes no incident whatsoever, then there’s literally no point running an XC competition. Not every jump will be textbook.

But the forces on London's body as he whacked, twisted and scambled over the fence are comparable, IMO, to Shallow Springs

 

[Fred66]

Pammy Hutton once wrote that Mr.Mrs Bloggs may not know much about the finer points of dressage but they do know animal cruelty when they see it.I don't think that you have to have ridden round Badminton etc. to pass an opinion.I have a trainer who has and she is often disgusted at some of the things she sees.I don't watch horse sports (any) very much these days.

Probably not true as a statement anyway, otherwise there wouldn’t be so many overweight horses.
Cruelty can be subjective , to some even riding a horse is cruel

 

[sakura]

I absolutely admire her stickability. Top class. But these days I hate looking at pictures of a horse scrabbling to keep control of its half a ton of weight and not break its neck or a leg. I struggle to support the use of horses at top level any more, and I have a good idea what Joe Public thinks when they see pictures like those. For all sorts of reasons, not least climate change, I think Equestrian sports at the Olympics are time limited now.
.

I agree completely. I was an avid eventing fan for such a long time but my opinion has continued to evolve and change over the years.

Equestrianism was actually ranked as the least popular Olympic sport in the USA in 2012. (https://www.statista.com/statistics...ian events,their least favorite Olympic event.)

That's 10 years ago, and I don't think the sport has done itself any favours since.

 

[Annagain]

I agree completely. I was an avid eventing fan for such a long time but my opinion has continued to evolve and change over the years.

Equestrianism was actually ranked as the least popular Olympic sport in the USA in 2012. (https://www.statista.com/statistics/237289/least-favorite-olympic-events-among-americans-in-2012/#:~:text=In this year, equestrian events,their least favorite Olympic event.)

That's 10 years ago, and I don't think the sport has done itself any favours since.

The USA isn't necessarily representative of the whole world though. Equestrianism will barely be on most Americans' radar. If you asked the same question in the UK, Australia, NZ, Germany you'd probably get a different answer. Some of America's most popular sports (overall, not just Olympic sports) - baseball and basketball for example - wouldn't get a look in in other countries.