Oliver Townend Fence 4 (Shallow Springs)

I agree with her point about the social media pile-on but not the way she made it.

I don't necessarily buy the argument that you have to be doing something at the same level to have the right to have an opinion. The way and the place you express that opinion is the issue.

I'm a massive rugby fan. I've never played but I've watched it week in week out since I was about 7, my OH is a former player, I've watched training sessions, club matches, school matches - everything up to the British Lions. Does that fact I've never played mean I can't recognise a forward pass, a knock on or a high tackle or even if one player is having a good or bad game? I may not have an understanding of WHY those things happened (as in the physical and mental demands not the basic physics) but that doesn't mean I can't recognise good or bad play when I see it. I can be privately frustrated when a team I support loses or plays badly or a kicker misses a kick and I can express that opinion amongst friends or even on a public forum but there's a difference between doing that and personal attacks on social media about it.

In the same way, we can say "that was a messy jump and a lucky escape for OT," or "TM rode into that bounce too fast in my opinion" but few of us will understand the demands on those riders and the decisions they have to make in real time on top of galloping horse so that's the bit we shouldn't be judging. We definitely shouldn't be turning those opinions into public attacks on their personalities, ethics or morals.

Having been at Badminton I was far more disgusted to see the sh!teventers unite stand with the photo board where you could put your face through the hole of the board than any of the riding I saw. The photo was of a rider getting horrendously left behind, socking the horse in the mouth, landing heavily on his back and clearly causing him a lot of pain. The expression on his face was very unhappy and they're exploiting this to make money. I know you could argue pro riders are 'exploiting' horses to make money but they're not deliberately capitalising on their pain. I disliked that page enough before I knew they had monetised it to the extent that they could have a huge stand at Badminton.
 
ihatework said:
Let’s be careful not to get dragged into what is being condemned.

At least she has apologised and will hopefully (?!) think twice about how she posts
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I think she’s only apologised for thinking that the person was a qualified McTimoney practitioner.
She is not coming across well at all!
 
shortstuff99 said:
Someone criticised that post on Facebook so she named and shamed them. It wasn't even a bad criticism, made me quite uncomfortable if I'm honest as she did what she accused the poster of doing. Bullying them to lose business. Very strange affair.
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She also named and shamed the people who liked her comment which I thought was a whole new level of petty ?
 
Wishfilly said:
I agree that he is from a pretty horsey background, and I do think he has perhaps put a spin on things to make a good story for the press. I do also think on a personal level he hasn't had the financial backing that some really top riders have. But I do also think that for whatever reason at times he has genuinely felt like a bit of an outsider within the eventing circuit- but maybe he just gives that impression?

I do think over the years he's learnt from his mistakes. But I also think his mistakes seem to get the spotlight shone on them far more than the mistakes made by others- I'm not sure why that is.
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tristar said:
agree with this, also the rider had the benefit of viewing the approach to the second element before riding it, the horse did not, he should have set up the horse better knowing it could land on top if taking off in wrong place
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Well! Actually it was a mistake by the horse - and they do sometimes make mistakes. He took off too early, Ollie was waiting for another stride and the horse took him by surprise and he was good to stick on board.

Some of the comments are laughable, frankly. When you are doing cross country things do not always go to plan, thinks happen in a split second, it is so, so, so easy when you are watching to make an informed comment, but when you are riding at a fast canter/gallop you are travelling at speed and a bit of loss of balance is magnified. You can also think "wow, that wasn't good, or pretty and I wish that hadn't happened" but if you are IN a competition then you obviously want to complete the competition if possible.

I was with a friend at a 3 day event and her horse really wacked one of the last fences on the cross country. She had quite a bruise. The vet came and looked, said there were no injuries apart from bruising and asked the rider what she wanted to do. The rider replied that she wanted to complete if at all possible, and the vet replied that the horse would not be harmed or suffer any long term effects from a round of show jumping and told us what to do to get the bruising down and get through the vet's inspection the next morning. She went on to complete the 3 days.

Now, I daresay that some people would have said that she should have withdrawn, but the horse didn't come to any harm and went on OK (in fact it was a degenerative foot problem that caused her retirement a couple of years later).

Competitive people are competitive. They enter their horses in competitions to try to win.
 
Fjord said:
On a slightly nicer note, I did really like the way that Ben Hobday fussed his horse after he came off. The first thing he did when he caught the horse was to give it a big rub on the face.
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Also the rider (forgotten his name) who had a horrible horse fall in which the horse's neck bent right back. We were so relieved to see them both get up. The rider was holding the horse and checking him over, clearly being very concerned about him, but the horse was able to walk away. Bet that one was sore afterwards, though, and the rider too.

ETA It was the Irish rider Cathal Daniels and Barrichello.
 
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Orangehorse said:
Well! Actually it was a mistake by the horse - and they do sometimes make mistakes. He took off too early, Ollie was waiting for another stride and the horse took him by surprise and he was good to stick on board.

Some of the comments are laughable, frankly. When you are doing cross country things do not always go to plan, thinks happen in a split second, it is so, so, so easy when you are watching to make an informed comment, but when you are riding at a fast canter/gallop you are travelling at speed and a bit of loss of balance is magnified. You can also think "wow, that wasn't good, or pretty and I wish that hadn't happened" but if you are IN a competition then you obviously want to complete the competition if possible.

I was with a friend at a 3 day event and her horse really wacked one of the last fences on the cross country. She had quite a bruise. The vet came and looked, said there were no injuries apart from bruising and asked the rider what she wanted to do. The rider replied that she wanted to complete if at all possible, and the vet replied that the horse would not be harmed or suffer any long term effects from a round of show jumping and told us what to do to get the bruising down and get through the vet's inspection the next morning. She went on to complete the 3 days.

Now, I daresay that some people would have said that she should have withdrawn, but the horse didn't come to any harm and went on OK (in fact it was a degenerative foot problem that caused her retirement a couple of years later).

Competitive people are competitive. They enter their horses in competitions to try to win.
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it did not look that way to me
 
Thanks for the update. Several spinal fractures, albeit stable ones :oops:. More best wishes for a quick and full recovery.

Nicola is in intensive care and will be for the next week or so. She is able to breathe independently and is talking. She sustained no head injury.

There are several spinal fractures, but these are all stable and will not require any surgical intervention, but will be managed conservatively.

Other acute symptoms from the trauma are being managed in intensive care by the specialists at Southmead.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Thanks for the update. Several spinal fractures, albeit stable ones :oops:. More best wishes for a quick and full recovery.

Nicola is in intensive care and will be for the next week or so. She is able to breathe independently and is talking. She sustained no head injury.

There are several spinal fractures, but these are all stable and will not require any surgical intervention, but will be managed conservatively.

Other acute symptoms from the trauma are being managed in intensive care by the specialists at Southmead.
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:( I didn't see the fall but this sounds scary.
 
Thanks for the update - wishing Nicola a speedy and full recovery. Surely this puts everything into perspective. Yes horses do get a smack sometimes to remind them they have a job to do, and yes we all at whatever level including the professionals do not always get it right but when push comes to shove no one wants to see riders or horses harmed but accidents do happen.
 
tristar said:
it did not look that way to me
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I'd suggest an eye test then. It is very clear that Oliver was surprised that the horse took off so early.

You could also try listening to the interview where he talks about how he wanted to get an extra stride in and Andrew Nicholson who used to ride the horse thought it was a place to go on the long one.
 
Kat said:
I'd suggest an eye test then. It is very clear that Oliver was surprised that the horse took off so early.

You could also try listening to the interview where he talks about how he wanted to get an extra stride in and Andrew Nicholson who used to ride the horse thought it was a place to go on the long one.
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he rode the first element a bit behind the balance, then remembered the second element was wider and flapped a flappylegs and seat thing threw the reins at the horse, lovely pony club style, probably the horse thought he had asked it to take off.


the reason he stayed on is not because he so brilliant, is that as he fell to the right the horse turned to the right and picked him up and saved him, or he would have been decked
 
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Bradsmum said:
Thanks for the update - wishing Nicola a speedy and full recovery. Surely this puts everything into perspective. Yes horses do get a smack sometimes to remind them they have a job to do, and yes we all at whatever level including the professionals do not always get it right but when push comes to shove no one wants to see riders or horses harmed but accidents do happen.
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For me, this accident further highlights the needs for tougher rules to protect horses and riders. Nicola had a freak fall, and is seriously injured through absolutely no fault of her own or the horse; it’s a dangerous sport and she knows the risks better than anyone and is vastly experienced. But the very dangerous element of the sport is why tired horses need to be pulled up, and horses that crumple on landing need to be pulled up, to prevent any further injuries, or accidents at another fence. OT did nothing wrong coming into the fence; the horse missed and they were both lucky not to be injured.
That fall with the tired horse at the end was horrific, and the horse should have been pulled up before that happened.
 
scats said:
I think she’s only apologised for thinking that the person was a qualified McTimoney practitioner.
She is not coming across well at all!
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And now she apparently has a lot of respect for that prat Marlin, who himself behaves like a child and a bully and then whines when he gets it back. Can't stand him and I'm now unfollowing this vet too.
 
NinjaPony said:
For me, this accident further highlights the needs for tougher rules to protect horses and riders. Nicola had a freak fall, and is seriously injured through absolutely no fault of her own or the horse; it’s a dangerous sport and she knows the risks better than anyone and is vastly experienced. But the very dangerous element of the sport is why tired horses need to be pulled up, and horses that crumple on landing need to be pulled up, to prevent any further injuries, or accidents at another fence. OT did nothing wrong coming into the fence; the horse missed and they were both lucky not to be injured.
That fall with the tired horse at the end was horrific, and the horse should have been pulled up before that happened.
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Not picking on you specifically NP, but your mention of the Maxim Livio & horse fall has got me wondering about how that actually happened. They’ve cut his round from about fence 15 onwards on the XC footage, and while I don’t want to watch the actual fall again, I’m intrigued about the end of his round. I really don’t remember them looking tired or dangerous jumping the last few fences and I’m sure I’ve seen in one of his comments afterwards that the horse only ran out of energy in the last 100 yards ie well after the second last fence. Does anyone who was watching it have a clearer memory than I do? I mean I’m fine with being wrong and god knows you can’t pay 100% attention all the time during a 6+ hour livestream, but it felt like everyone watching it and posting on the XC thread was somewhat on high alert at that point, given the amount of problems that day, and I feel like I would have remembered if it was an Eliza Wallace type situation, and/or the commentators would have said something?

In that specific set of circumstances, and I’m sure I said this elsewhere on Sat afternoon, there just wouldn’t have been time to make the decision, communicate it and get him pulled up. In other cases, riders do get stopped on course, so the power is there already for the ground jury to do it.

Now the answer’s obvious in this case isn’t it, the rider should have bloody well pulled him up as soon as he felt him tiring. I guess I’m just curious about what “tougher rules” for this sort of thing means? Stronger penalties after it happens? More encouragement for the ground jury to monitor and intervene?
 
Lexi_ said:
Not picking on you specifically NP, but your mention of the Maxim Livio & horse fall has got me wondering about how that actually happened. They’ve cut his round from about fence 15 onwards on the XC footage, and while I don’t want to watch the actual fall again, I’m intrigued about the end of his round. I really don’t remember them looking tired or dangerous jumping the last few fences and I’m sure I’ve seen in one of his comments afterwards that the horse only ran out of energy in the last 100 yards ie well after the second last fence. Does anyone who was watching it have a clearer memory than I do? I mean I’m fine with being wrong and god knows you can’t pay 100% attention all the time during a 6+ hour livestream, but it felt like everyone watching it and posting on the XC thread was somewhat on high alert at that point, given the amount of problems that day, and I feel like I would have remembered if it was an Eliza Wallace type situation, and/or the commentators would have said something?

In that specific set of circumstances, and I’m sure I said this elsewhere on Sat afternoon, there just wouldn’t have been time to make the decision, communicate it and get him pulled up. In other cases, riders do get stopped on course, so the power is there already for the ground jury to do it.

Now the answer’s obvious in this case isn’t it, the rider should have bloody well pulled him up as soon as he felt him tiring. I guess I’m just curious about what “tougher rules” for this sort of thing means? Stronger penalties after it happens? More encouragement for the ground jury to monitor and intervene?
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Tired horses can drop very quickly. Swear someone posted on here once about just how quickly it can happen and how it can feel.

I think if that happened, and the due process involved of someone radioing control, waiting for an answer, to then stopping the rider, you’d have seconds if that to get them to stop before the approach to the last fence.
 
teapot said:
Tired horses can drop very quickly. Swear someone posted on here once about just how quickly it can happen and how it can feel.

I think if that happened, and the due process involved of someone radioing control, waiting for an answer, to then stopping the rider, you’d have seconds if that to get them to stop before the approach to the last fence.
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That’s what I mean! If the horse was clearly knackered 2 or 3 out then there’s time to do it. 100 yards out from a fence, there just isn’t.
 
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Lexi_ said:
Not picking on you specifically NP, but your mention of the Maxim Livio & horse fall has got me wondering about how that actually happened. They’ve cut his round from about fence 15 onwards on the XC footage, and while I don’t want to watch the actual fall again, I’m intrigued about the end of his round. I really don’t remember them looking tired or dangerous jumping the last few fences and I’m sure I’ve seen in one of his comments afterwards that the horse only ran out of energy in the last 100 yards ie well after the second last fence. Does anyone who was watching it have a clearer memory than I do? I mean I’m fine with being wrong and god knows you can’t pay 100% attention all the time during a 6+ hour livestream, but it felt like everyone watching it and posting on the XC thread was somewhat on high alert at that point, given the amount of problems that day, and I feel like I would have remembered if it was an Eliza Wallace type situation, and/or the commentators would have said something?

In that specific set of circumstances, and I’m sure I said this elsewhere on Sat afternoon, there just wouldn’t have been time to make the decision, communicate it and get him pulled up. In other cases, riders do get stopped on course, so the power is there already for the ground jury to do it.

Now the answer’s obvious in this case isn’t it, the rider should have bloody well pulled him up as soon as he felt him tiring. I guess I’m just curious about what “tougher rules” for this sort of thing means? Stronger penalties after it happens? More encouragement for the ground jury to monitor and intervene?
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I was at Badminton for four days, and walked the course on Thurs/Fri, so on Saturday afternoon when there were so many people out on the course I sat in the Grandstand so I could watch the competitors start and finish their rounds, and also watch their rounds on the big screen, which was great.

I have to admit that I really don't like the final fence in the main arena. The horses have an uphill run into the Main Arena. They then have to negotiate a tight left hand turn on what can be slippery going, many are on the wrong leg or disunited as they approach the fence, and can misjudge the take off. I wonder if they could have a final fence approached on the straight, that is more forgiving and not with so much of a spread at the back of the fence?

I was unlucky enough to be in the Grandstand to see the French horse's fall on Saturday, just the same as I was unlucky enough to be there when Eliza Wallace's horse fell a few years ago. ? [ETA: 2017]
 
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Yes I think that was my understanding but it does seem to get awkward jumps generally, I don't think burghley uses a turn
 
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