Pandering to overweight riders

[Winters100]

well if everyone was weighed, no one would feel persecuted, the scales are the scales

True, but imagine the time that it would take. Surely a more efficient way is to ignore the ones which are obviously a sensible weight for the horse and focus on the ones who are marginal / over. Maybe allow those who are marginal, or who look heavier than they are, to volunteer to be weighed before tacking up. I just do not see how being weighed in this context would make anyone feel persecuted, because they have chosen a sport where weight is important. To me there is too much emphasis on how people feel about this and too little on animal welfare.

 

[tristar]

True, but imagine the time that it would take. Surely a more efficient way is to ignore the ones which are obviously a sensible weight for the horse and focus on the ones who are marginal / over. Maybe allow those who are marginal, or who look heavier than they are, to volunteer to be weighed before tacking up. I just do not see how being weighed in this context would make anyone feel persecuted, because they have chosen a sport where weight is important. To me there is too much emphasis on how people feel about this and too little on animal welfare.

but that is a judgement in itself, who decides who is marginal, ? level playing field is fairer and may throw up some surprises

knowledge would be power for all tracking weight ratios

no emphasis where all are weighed

the end game is win win for the horses

everyone knows where they stand weight wise

 

[Tiddlypom]

True, but imagine the time that it would take. Surely a more efficient way is to ignore the ones which are obviously a sensible weight for the horse and focus on the ones who are marginal / over.

'Oi, you fat bastard, come over here and get weighed'

That would go down a storm.

All riders to be weighed, no exceptions/back handers/favouritism. That's the only fair way. As said, some people (me included) weigh a lot more than you might think at a glance.

I am very prepared to be weighed at any RS or other riding establishment. I do think that some establishments should make it clear beforehand whether they want to know the naked rider weight, or rider dressed for riding with boots, hat etc, which adds nearly a stone.

 

[AmyMay]

You do not mention horse welfare once in your post. In my opinion embarrassment, uncomfortable situations or being “sad” should not take precedent over that.

It’s literally in the second paragraph. Although it’s what the whole post is about….

 

[tristar]

'Oi, you fat bastard, come over here and get weighed'

That would go down a storm.

All riders to be weighed, no exceptions/back handers/favouritism. That's the only fair way. As said, some people (me included) weigh a lot more than you might think at a glance.

i know its not funny really, but that made me laugh,![the first line]

[you are a braver man than me gunga din]

 

[FestiveG]

Given that lighter riders used to have to carry lead, weighing must have been/ is the norm in eventing. Jockeys are weighed at every race, it isn't a huge step for competitions to weigh people. However that still does not address the issue of leisure riders who are too heavy for their horse.

 

[Winters100]

'Oi, you fat bastard, come over here and get weighed'

I did not suggest that anyone be insulted when being called in to be weighed. You are the one who is assuming that every unsuitable combination is due to body fat, in many instances this will not be the case.

I also suggested that those who might feel that they looked 'marginal' could simply present themselves in advance in order to avoid being called in for weighing if this is what they prefer.

To me it is simply a waste of time to weigh every single horse / rider, have a visual inspection of the horse to establish that the horse itself is not overweight, when there will be many combinations who are quite clearly well within the set rule.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I disagree.

It has to be all riders to be weighed, no fear or favour.

Otherwise, the tittle tattle would soon start, accusations of favouritism or vindictiveness, etc.

 

[HuskyFluff]

As a fat person I always find these threads interesting. I have a lovely horse that everyone tells me is a weight carrier (she isn't) and I'll be fine. Nobody has said I'm too heavy for her. In fact they argue with me when I say that I am! OK, I am 5'8" and can carry a certain amount but it is bleeding obvious that I'm too fat to ride. I don't know if people don't want to upset me by agreeing with me. or they genuinely think I'm ok - if the latter then more education is definitely needed!

Incidentally @sbloom is one of the few people who have agreed with my assessment of my weight and fitness to ride

ETA - I also don't think that anyone classified as the upper end of overweight into obese etc has good balance - I find myself being much more careful about doing things (e.g. going down stairs) as I am far more unstable fat than I am when not overweight.

 

[Winters100]

As a fat person I always find these threads interesting. I have a lovely horse that everyone tells me is a weight carrier (she isn't) and I'll be fine. Nobody has said I'm too heavy for her. In fact they argue with me when I say that I am! OK, I am 5'8" and can carry a certain amount but it is bleeding obvious that I'm too fat to ride. I don't know if people don't want to upset me by agreeing with me. or they genuinely think I'm ok - if the latter then more education is definitely needed!

Incidentally @sbloom is one of the few people who have agreed with my assessment of my weight and fitness to ride

ETA - I also don't think that anyone classified as the upper end of overweight into obese etc has good balance - I find myself being much more careful about doing things (e.g. going down stairs) as I am far more unstable fat than I am when not overweight.

And good for you recognising the issues. Being whatever size you are is nothing to be ashamed of, and lots of us struggle with our weight. You are to be admired for recognising the welfare issues for the horse and acting appropriately.

 

[Winters100]

I disagree.

It has to be all riders to be weighed, no fear or favour.

Otherwise, the tittle tattle would soon start, accusations of favouritism or vindictiveness, etc.

But how long would it take? Surely some common sense should prevail over people's feelings that they are being somehow targeted. And how is it vindictive to be called in to be weighed, because if you are complying then there is nothing to fear, and if not then it is normal that you are weighed. Accusations of favourtism could be dealt with by having several people able to select marginal combinations, stewards / judges / a committee / vet. Personally I could not give a hoot if I was called in to be weighed, I would be surprised if anyone thought that I was marginal, but certainly not offended or bothering to accuse anyone of being 'vindictive'.

 

[Cortez]

let us know how you get on with that method

I have already said that I have told people they were too heavy for their horse/pony, both when judging* and teaching. I was not impolite, but practical. Some people listen, some do not.

I've also eliminated horses for lameness.

*dressage and showing.

 

[Winters100]

I was not impolite, but practical. Some people listen, some do not.

And this is what is ideally needed. Knowledgable experts who can make a call. BUT in this case they need to be supported, no blaming them because someone had their feelings hurt. Yes, it may be seen as subjective, but is every judge in dressage / showing not making a call on how they see things?

 

[Flame_]

I disagree.

It has to be all riders to be weighed, no fear or favour.

Otherwise, the tittle tattle would soon start, accusations of favouritism or vindictiveness, etc.

Not really, it would be a total waste of time in many instances. It's a bit like the "challenge 25" stuff for buying over 18 year old goods in supermarkets. IDing people who are clearly in their 50's would only make everybody involved feel ridiculous.

I actually don't support any of this stuff. Horses in most events carry their riders for a few minutes, if the rider's too big they probably don't do very well and soon they give it up for a bad job. The horses really coping with proportionately heavy loads are the hackers (riders on board for usually at least an hour), hunters (riders on board 4 hours plus), handicapped jump racers (horses performing at absolute physical capacity) and top level weighted endurance horses (riders on board for 12 hours plus).

A chubber on a pony doing a prelim dressage test is perhaps a drop in the ocean.

People should be generally encouraged and supported in being well matched with their equine partners but I suppose the difficulty is mainly when people gain weight and can't face or aren't able to part with the horse they have, and to replace it with another, or accept giving up riding all together.

Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that it's not really a competition issue, and if it was it would be a bit hypocritical when some competitions have minimum weights.

 

[tristar]

I have already said that I have told people they were too heavy for their horse/pony, both when judging* and teaching. I was not impolite, but practical. Some people listen, some do not.

I've also eliminated horses for lameness.

*dressage and showing.

did you weigh them?

i was a bit concerned you may end up in a and e

 

[tristar]

But how long would it take? Surely some common sense should prevail over people's feelings that they are being somehow targeted. And how is it vindictive to be called in to be weighed, because if you are complying then there is nothing to fear, and if not then it is normal that you are weighed. Accusations of favourtism could be dealt with by having several people able to select marginal combinations, stewards / judges / a committee / vet. Personally I could not give a hoot if I was called in to be weighed, I would be surprised if anyone thought that I was marginal, but certainly not offended or bothering to accuse anyone of being 'vindictive'.

your approach is unrealistic

 

[JosephJmc]

I'm another guy too heavy to ride. I wouldn't want to compromise horse welfare (or my own safety). Being conscientious and realistic about weight should be encouraged. Unfortunately I do think people underestimate it, personally speaking I do too. those who don't step on a scale regularly might be surprised. We don't put boxers in a ring out of their weight class for good reason.

 

[Orangehorse]

I reckon 14 stone is a reasonable limit, which is in place at many establishments.

 

[ycbm]

I'm another guy too heavy to ride. I wouldn't want to compromise horse welfare (or my own safety). Being conscientious and realistic about weight should be encouraged. Unfortunately I do think people underestimate it, personally speaking I do too. those who don't step on a scale regularly might be surprised. We don't put boxers in a ring out of their weight class for good reason.

If that's you in your avatar you aren't too heavy to ride, though if you're tall then that would be why you are finding trouble with weight limits at riding schools (from your other thread).
.

 

[Goldenstar]

I reckon 14 stone is a reasonable limit, which is in place at many establishments.

Reasonable limit for what ?

 

[ycbm]

Horses in most events carry their riders for a few minutes

You've missed off the warm up, it's very rarely a few minutes in total and many people do more than one class in the day.
.

 

[sbloom]

Someone I would love to work with, and have talked with her about it maybe happening one day. The translations never help but here's one person actually pressure testing the aspects of saddle/rider fit I've been talking about.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid033MBUNPPXzD1TYBpCAphA55xZKyq741YBPvmsr9A6LcndAA7b9MPz8te39CGAZ2f5l&id=100063581261749

 

[SpotsandBays]

Someone I would love to work with, and have talked with her about it maybe happening one day. The translations never help but here's one person actually pressure testing the aspects of saddle/rider fit I've been talking about.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid033MBUNPPXzD1TYBpCAphA55xZKyq741YBPvmsr9A6LcndAA7b9MPz8te39CGAZ2f5l&id=100063581261749

I think what you’re saying is very important - but how do you police all of the points within that post at competition? It just doesn’t sound feasible to me at all…
Yes the % scale doesn’t take into account lots of aspects (horse type, rider balance, horse fitness, equipment etc), but I think it is a start

 

[Winters100]

your approach is unrealistic

Is it not pretty much what some of the county shows are already doing?

 

[ycbm]

Someone I would love to work with, and have talked with her about it maybe happening one day. The translations never help but here's one person actually pressure testing the aspects of saddle/rider fit I've been talking about.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid033MBUNPPXzD1TYBpCAphA55xZKyq741YBPvmsr9A6LcndAA7b9MPz8te39CGAZ2f5l&id=100063581261749

Reducing pressure in the saddle by having the saddle fit the rider properly does not reduce pressure on the joints, because the horse is still carrying the same amount of weight. It may be better for the back, it may feel easier to the horse, but weight is still weight.

SB you've missed the questions as to what your personal weight limit % is. Do you have one?
.

 

[sbloom]

Reducing pressure in the saddle by having the saddle fit the rider properly does not reduce pressure on the joints, because the horse is still carrying the same amount of weight. It may be better for the back, it may feel easier to the horse, but weight is still weight.

SB you've missed the questions as to what your personal weight limit % is. Do you have one?
.

I would want to see more data, I would almost certainly accept 20% but have not read enough to know how low I would want to go. I make decisions based on real horse responses in individual cases in front of me, I do not have to make decisions like this for which I am glad.

 

[ycbm]

I would want to see more data, I would almost certainly accept 20% but have not read enough to know how low I would want to go. I make decisions based on real horse responses in individual cases in front of me, I do not have to make decisions like this for which I am glad.

It must be a tough task sometimes to be diplomatic, I couldn't do it, I don't think.

 

[sbloom]

I also should not have focused just on pressure testing, Equimetric closely analyses functional movement, posture, being as objective as possible. She looks at everything in the round and would offer, I believe, one of the very best approaches to determining if the saddle/rider load is causing compromise. Worth following for anyone interested in the cutting edge info coming through in this area.

 

[ycbm]

So, my plan.

From 2024

All County level and above shows and regional and above competitions in any discipline and extreme endurance events to weigh horse and rider if any official asks for that to happen. All qualifiers to be warned on entering the qualifier that this rule is in place at the next level. Officials briefed that 20% is the rule.

All horses above condition score 3/5 prevented from participating. For its own sake and so as not to corrupt the 20% measurement.

Sit back and wait for the outrage, which will storm round social media and leave nobody in any doubt that there's are serious welfare issues going on.

Find funding for better research and adjust the percentage if that research suggests it.




Pass the wand please.

.

 

[Roxylola]

Throw in submitting weight of horse and rider with tack on entry forms, people might be making an educated guess but it would at least force them to consider it