Pandering to overweight riders

[Kaylum]

There are loads of younger

So, my plan.

From 2024

All County level and above shows and regional and above competitions in any discipline and extreme endurance events to weigh horse and rider if any official asks for that to happen. All qualifiers to be warned on entering the qualifier that this rule is in place at the next level. Officials briefed that 20% is the rule.

All horses above condition score 3/5 prevented from participating. For its own sake and so as not to corrupt the 20% measurement.

Sit back and wait for the outrage, which will storm round social media and leave nobody in any doubt that there's are serious welfare issues going on.

Find funding for better research and adjust the percentage if that research suggests it.




Pass the wand please.

.

Absolutely agree.

Our local nurtionist was at the gys with with her weighbridge. People were able to weigh their animals, which was a big step forward.

There was also a rule about being asked to dismount if considered too heavy for the horse by the judge.

Our rescues are weighed every 2 weeks as we now have our own weighbridge.

 

[Kaylum]

Throw in submitting weight of horse and rider with tack on entry forms, people might be making an educated guess but it would at least force them to consider it

I like this idea.

 

[cobgoblin]

A lot of focus on rider weight, but if you're going to tell someone they are too heavy for their horse then the horse has to be weighed and assessed too. It would be totally impossible except at top level competition.

For the ordinary rider, a guide on horse type, size and weight carrying ability ( in figures ) and the same for the rider might be useful. Perhaps the breed societies could contribute. Put the chart everywhere possible.
I did once find a chart like this but it was limited to horse and pony, so useless.

 

[Sossigpoker]

I wonder how we'd judge suitable weights here, the befores and afters? How much % difference might there be from one to the other? (sorry for German link, is safe, must be my VPN!) Before and after rehab:

Bei Facebook anmelden

Melde dich bei Facebook an, um dich mit deinen Freunden, deiner Familie und Personen, die du kennst, zu verbinden und Inhalte zu teilen.

www.facebook.com

and before and after better saddle (along the lines I'm talking about, loading the horse well, optimising the skeleton of both):

In that Facebook link I don't need to know the rider's or horse's weight to know that the rider is too big. When the backside doesn't fit in the saddle, you know they are just too big. I'm sure you know that this will push the weight to the back of the saddle. I know two rider's locally who are too big , one of them even rides ponies and probably weighs at least 12 stone if not more. All of their horses, funnily enough, have contracted back muscles.

 

[Sossigpoker]

I do agree with some riders being too heavy for the horses, but I do think it is directed mainly at female riders? I never hear anyone say anything in RL about men being too heavy for their mounts, when female riders are more commented on. I even do it myself. Men weigh a lot more than women, even though they may appear trim.

You only need to look at most hunting photos to see big men with big guts and arses, who probably shouldn't sit on any horse let alone jump it.

 

[sbloom]

In that Facebook link I don't need to know the rider's or horse's weight to know that the rider is too big. When the backside doesn't fit in the saddle, you know they are just too big. I'm sure you know that this will push the weight to the back of the saddle. I know two rider's locally who are too big , one of them even rides ponies and probably weighs at least 12 stone if not more. All of their horses, funnily enough, have contracted back muscles.

The link should be to one post showing before and after a prolonged rehab, the topline of a horse. It was not meant as a discussion on anything else on her page.

 

[GrassChop]

It is simple.

"No horse attending this event should carry over xx% of its 3/5 condition score weight".

xx to be set at the maximum weight for a balanced rider on a well muscled horse.

That would be such a huge step forward for horse welfare that for the moment there is no point thinking about adding the judgement call of how much xx should be reduced for an unbalanced rider/green horse/weak conformation/ etc etc etc
.

I do agree with this. I'm just thinking of the arguments that people might have to come back with to justify that their horse can carry more than a finer horse, for example but on the basis of setting weight rules to start with, that is a good idea.

 

[SEL]

Throw in submitting weight of horse and rider with tack on entry forms, people might be making an educated guess but it would at least force them to consider it

Weight tapes might not be 100% but they are easily accessible, cheap and a starting point.

In fact the only one of mine who was significantly different was 40kg more on the weighbridge - she was fit at the time too (we will not discuss her current retired weight......)

 

[GrassChop]

If that's you in your avatar you aren't too heavy to ride
.

How do you know?

 

[littleshetland]

You only need to look at most hunting photos to see big men with big guts and arses, who probably shouldn't sit on any horse let alone jump it.

I remember watching 'It's Otto' and marvelling at how him and his rider (ahem...) got over those huge jumps....

 

[tristar]

taking dog to vet, pop dog on scales, pop off, 3 seconds, its not hard

the idea of introduction of weight limits might send a shock wave far and wide, and encourage riders to weigh themselves and their horses where poss thus introducing the concept of rider horse weight ratios,

many riders might wonder if they are too heavy, getting them to think about it seriously could encourage those on the heavy side to do something positive about weight before getting weighed at an event

and holey moley what if it spilled over to horses overweight , the start of the end for fat show horses and ponies including non ridden in hand

 

[ycbm]

How do you know?

Just look at the bone the horse has and the fat the rider doesn't. It would be a freak who weighed more than 20% of that horse when he was that size.

Common sense does work when you aren't near the boundaries.

 

[Cortez]

Publishing a rough guide with an outline of suitable compatible horse and rider weights would be a start.

I find many people do not know what horses are deemed capable of carrying, have never heard of the 15%/20% guideline, don't know what their horse weighs (or is supposed to weigh), don't know what an un-fat horse looks like, don't know (or acknowledge) what they weigh themselves, what their tack and clothing weighs, etc., etc.

In reply to ycbm above: men can be deceptively heavy buggers; it's all that muscle weighing more than fat.

 

[GrassChop]

Just look at the bone the horse has and the fat the rider doesn't. It would be a freak who weighed more than 20% of that horse when he was that size.

Common sense does work when you aren't near the boundaries.

But isn't this part of what we've been discussing? Weight cannot be properly judged by looking at it. Yes, he looks in proportion and suitable for the horse but we know by proof already shown on this thread that someone can look lighter or heavier than they actually are.

 

[GrassChop]

Publishing a rough guide with an outline of suitable compatible horse and rider weights would be a start.

I find many people do not know what horses are deemed capable of carrying, have never heard of the 15%/20% guideline, don't know what their horse weighs (or is supposed to weigh), don't know what an un-fat horse looks like, don't know (or acknowledge) what they weigh themselves, what their tack and clothing weighs, etc., etc.

That would be a good idea.
Unfortunately, a huge amount of people are in denial as well about their own and their horse's weight as well. There are far too many people that say "oh he's fine!" or "he's a cob, he's meant to look like that"

 

[ycbm]

In reply to ycbm above: men can be deceptively heavy buggers; it's all that muscle weighing more than fat.

And 20 percent is a lot of kilos.

 

[paddy555]

taking dog to vet, pop dog on scales, pop off, 3 seconds, its not hard

the idea of introduction of weight limits might send a shock wave far and wide, and encourage riders to weigh themselves and their horses where poss thus introducing the concept of rider horse weight ratios,

how are many riders able to find out what their horse weighs? many like me are on private yards a long way from the nearest weighbridge and without transport.
Everything I have read about weigh tapes is that they underweigh (that is iro discussing worming weights)

one may be able to have weight restrictions at shows however what about say hunting? I doubt they are going to give a damn and the vast majority of ordinary riders wouldn't even be aware of it let alone bother

But isn't this part of what we've been discussing? Weight cannot be properly judged by looking at it. Yes, he looks in proportion and suitable for the horse but we know by proof already shown on this thread that someone can look lighter or heavier than they actually are.

exactly.

 

[Kunoichi73]

Publishing a rough guide with an outline of suitable compatible horse and rider weights would be a start.

I find many people do not know what horses are deemed capable of carrying, have never heard of the 15%/20% guideline, don't know what their horse weighs (or is supposed to weigh), don't know what an un-fat horse looks like, don't know (or acknowledge) what they weigh themselves, what their tack and clothing weighs, etc., etc.

Absolutely agree with this. As someone who got back into riding a few years ago, my weight was never something I thought about in relation to riding. Particularly as I'm relatively light anyway - around 115 pounds and well below the limits set by every riding place I've seen. However, as I'm short and often ride smaller ponies and horses, I am actively now trying to reduce my weight in the interests of being much fairer to the animals that have to carry me.

 

[criso]

Everything I have read about weigh tapes is that they underweigh (that is iro discussing worming weights)

Just to confuse matters I had two weight tapes, one underweighed, the other overweighed.

I also have issues with portable weighbridges like the one used by feed companies, I compared it to the permanent and I assume state of the art one, at my local horsepital and they over estimated by a significant amount.

All these methods are great for giving a rough idea but in a show situation where you are talking about elimination, a margin of error of 30kg wouldn't be acceptable especially if you had a borderline case.

Not disagreeing with the principle but in practice could be difficult.

 

[Peglo]

how are many riders able to find out what their horse weighs? many like me are on private yards a long way from the nearest weighbridge and without transport.
Everything I have read about weigh tapes is that they underweigh (that is iro discussing worming weights)

My riding club got the weigh bridge in at camp so everyone could weigh their horses and got a condition score. Otherwise I would have no idea. Could your yard arrange to get the vet out with theirs and everyone chip in?

I think I was the only one who got on with my riding stuff and tack to see what my total weight was.

 

[Cortez]

Weigh tapes are better than guessing, they also show loss or gain. There will always be quibbling, what needs to happen is that people become aware that there is a problem with horses carrying more weight than is acceptable. It is a welfare issue, nothing more.

 

[ihatework]

You are never going to be able to accommodate all the nuances involved.

But you probably could make an approximation of healthy horse weight based on height and type (low/mw/hw) and then assign a maximum permitted weight of rider in kg, minus kit. 15% for example.

Do-able yes

Open to challenge, whines, life’s not fair, but but but - no doubt

Enforceable under national rules - I suspect not

Worth doing as a guideline - i think so

 

[JosephJmc]

And 20 percent is a lot of kilos.

I was 14.5 stone in the photo. I wasn't aware of the horse's weight, but I was under the limit for the centre. That's around 92 kg.

 

[Glitter's fun]

My 2 pennyworth.

1) Establish that such a thing as "too heavy" exists, by bringing in a very high limit that no one would disagree with. (Say even 25%?)
Weigh-ins at competitions would need to be random & unannounced rather than have hundreds of scales/personnel.
Weigh horse & then rider holding their tack like a jockey is weighed. Actual weight confidential but percentage published. The very few that are over get sent home, the many that are nearer 20% get a warning that the limit may be reducing in future so they may need to start searching for a bigger horse.
Once it's happening at competitions, you would also have good reason for (voluntary) pre show season weigh-ins at yards.

2) There are so many clinics/lessons that will tell you how to improve your performance by doing xyz tinkering with fairly small margins. If the instructors spoke about the difference that say half a stone less would make to everyone's dressage score, for example, it would chip away at rider weight being unmentionable.


Progress on this will be very slow.
Keep talking about it & do it yourself.
It's hard! I've seen a pony that is in all respects absolutely perfect for me except her height is such that I'd need to spend the entire next 10 years of my life hungry. So it's bye bye Cilla & keep looking.

 

[Cortez]

Please be aware that my tongue is firmly rooting around in my buccal fat here, but how about we recalibrate towards these crazy ideas: being overweight is not a "positive" thing; mentioning it is not taboo; personal responsibility is a thing; thinking about the horse's welfare is a primary focus.

 

[Goldenstar]

One of the issues with animal welfare is it’s very difficult to micro manage
Really the only horses whose welfare you can micromanage is your own or ones you have sole care of and belong to other people.
For those involved with hire of horses I think they need to have a clearly stated policy
And say they will weigh you on the day if they consider it necessary
They need to booking horses for the riders coming the days of ten people ten horses and juggle them when they arrive really should be condemned to the past.
I don’t think it’s a thing for vetting it’s not in the remit of vets at a purchase vetting .
The vast majority of horses being ridden by overly heavy riders never get near a show .

 

[spacefaer]

As an aside, I don't think anyone complains about being compulsorily weighed to go bungee jumping (limit 118kg for anyone interested) Horses are such an emotive subject

A number of years ago, I had a friend who's daughter had a very successful competition pony which she adored. Child (aged 11/12) was devastated to be told that pony would have to be sold as she was "getting too big " for him. Child stopped eating, and was eventually hospitalised. At no point was she ever too heavy, just tall.

I've seen photos of a current BD competitor on a lightweight wb/tb type who is so much too big for her horse that her saddle is almost completely invisible. There were complaints made to BD but apparently nothing has been been done

 

[Skib]

how are many riders able to find out what their horse weighs?

I have no idea what my share horse weighs and if I asked, I fear it would be taken a suggestion that the yard had over fed her and under exercised.

I've seen a pony that is in all respects absolutely perfect for me except her height is such that I'd need to spend the entire next 10 years of my life hungry.

Riding works like that for me. I have to watch my weight constantly in order to go on riding. It isnt just the horse. My left leg and hip have to be able to take my entire weight plus clothing helmet and bp.

 

[humblepie]

I always take up the chance of having horse weighed if feed supplier offering it at a show. He was done in July and weight came in as same as the tape measure although in the past I’ve had variations. Different scales or got better at tape measure use.

 

[Cortez]

I have no idea what my share horse weighs and if I asked, I fear it would be taken a suggestion that the yard had over fed her and under exercised.

You could weigh tape her? How do they worm her if they don't know what she weighs?