Panorama tonight - racing industry and slaughterhouses

splashgirl45

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if its closed down that makes even fewer places for animals, surely its the people that need prosecuting for animal cruelty , i couldnt have watched it as the images would have stayed with me, it has upset me enough without watching..but i think it would be better to go after the individual people so they cant work in an abbatoir again
 

Keira 8888

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if its closed down that makes even fewer places for animals, surely its the people that need prosecuting for animal cruelty , i couldnt have watched it as the images would have stayed with me, it has upset me enough without watching..but i think it would be better to go after the individual people so they cant work in an abbatoir again
Absolutely agree with you x
 

fankino04

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if its closed down that makes even fewer places for animals, surely its the people that need prosecuting for animal cruelty , i couldnt have watched it as the images would have stayed with me, it has upset me enough without watching..but i think it would be better to go after the individual people so they cant work in an abbatoir again
I'm a bit torn between there needing to be more places so horses travel less or just no places so the local knackerman or vet is called out and job done at home with unstressed horse. Obviously no horse abattoirs in the UK means no horsemeat from here if you ban live international export but if Bute isn't supposed to enter the food chain then there shouldn't be any horses in the food chain. I can see the argument for both and as a vegan am definitely conflicted but this place definitely needs something doing about it (not sure if shut down or something else)
 

Odyssey

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I apologise for coming across rant on this thread, but it's so heartbreaking to be on the other side of it dealing with what is ostensibly a 'waste product' of an industry that gets away with turning a blind eye to it and constantly states that they 'love horses'. In a few weeks I'll have to make a call on what exracers can realistically be re-homed. The other sweet beautiful ones will politely follow me onto a box to be PTS by a huntsman because physically or mentally they could not cope with the system that produced them. Charities and rehoming people are left to cover the vets costs and physio costs out of their own pocket, while the owners just buy a fresh new batch to destroy. It is truly heartbreaking. And these are horses that I'm 100% sure were shiny and well fed on a beautiful yard being cared for by grooms who were fond of them. But they still come out the other end with such a slim chance at a good life.

This with bells on! The appalling end endured by the poor horses that end up in badly run abattoirs is just the final insult to them when they're no longer of use to those who supposedly love them! Even if the horses are in training at the best yards, the endemic welfare issues can't be disputed, they're ridden and expected to perform in a very damaging way for their immature bodies (and minds). The horses are a disposable commodity, however loved they might be by their grooms, who look after them to the best of their ability in a system that's purely for the benefit of their owners and trainers, not the horses.

Thank goodness for the charities who pick up the pieces for a fraction of the discarded horses, but they shouldn't have to do this job, and make heartbreaking decisions to have to put horses down. It's the same issue as in greyhound racing, but luckily for the dogs they make fantastic pets, even for novice owners, so at least the majority now stand a good chance of finding loving homes when their racing days are over. I've now got my 5th. If only this was the case for TB's, which are vastly overbred to produce a few winners.
 
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Jim bob

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Ok I have just watches it. First thing. What the he'll is that guy doing with a rifle!?! So many bad practices going on..
It makes me so angry and upset that these horses. The grey winning over 170k can end up in a abattoir. I aren't saying that horses that win money should have a good life. They all should. But at the same time once that horse is sold by the owner or trainer there is nothing more they can do.
 

rabatsa

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I thought that. Somebody on the inside must have got the chip out of the dead horse then replanted it into the other one?
There is a way to replicate chips. They do not have to be dug out of a dead horse. Anyone who has sheep that lose a tag can get a replacement tag which has the same number in the chip. So the technology is out there and no doubt unscrupulous people have aquired it and put it to their own uses.
 

ester

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Ok I have just watches it. First thing. What the he'll is that guy doing with a rifle!?! So many bad practices going on..
It makes me so angry and upset that these horses. The grey winning over 170k can end up in a abattoir. I aren't saying that horses that win money should have a good life. They all should. But at the same time once that horse is sold by the owner or trainer there is nothing more they can do.
you might want to read the link I posted earlier.
 

Polos Mum

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re. choice of gun, others might find this interesting.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0309174015300346#bb0170

Not particularly safe use noted.

I appreciate this study is on the physical impact of the projectile and how this makes sense - but to use a long barrel doesn't it need two people one to hold the horses head and one to use the gun? I can't see how you can stand close enough with a long gun to keep a horse calm and relaxed and get it at the right angle.

All his waving about seemed to suggest he was struggling with the same physics.

Sadly seen too many with the pistol and it seems much less intrusive and less stressful to the horse vs. a larger rifle.
 

Wishfilly

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Not sure I can bear to watch but apparently it exposes the fact that thousands (yes it says thousands) of racehorses, including many young horses and previously successful horses, are sent to slaughterhouses each year. When will action be taken to stop this cruel and awful wastage in this industry? Never - because the betting industry is too powerful? At least something is being said in the programme about the dark side of what actually goes on. It's too often swept under the carpet and the general public's perception is that racing is a fun day out with lovely hats.

Over 4000 thoroughbred foals are born in GB each year, and nearly double that in Ireland- clearly they don't all go on to be successful racehorses or find pet homes, so what did you think happened to them? And honestly, a clean death in a slaughterhouse is not the worst outcome for these animals.

I have long said the wastage in the thoroughbred industry is far worse than the "high profile" deaths on the tracks- the scale of it is staggering.

The only thing I'm surprised about is that people are surprised.

No-one is going to stop wealthy studs from breeding so many foals each year, so this will continue to happen- I'm not convinced it's even that linked to betting, because most of these animals will never see a racetrack, and even now there is not the demand for thousands of unbacked thoroughbred youngsters every year.
 

honetpot

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I'm a bit torn between there needing to be more places so horses travel less or just no places so the local knackerman or vet is called out and job done at home with unstressed horse. Obviously no horse abattoirs in the UK means no horsemeat from here if you ban live international export but if Bute isn't supposed to enter the food chain then there shouldn't be any horses in the food chain. I can see the argument for both and as a vegan am definitely conflicted but this place definitely needs something doing about it (not sure if shut down or something else)
There are very few horses fit for human consumption, but there is a market in animals for rendering, so although it does cost the owner money to have them shot at home, at the moment you can, 'shop around'. The last pony I had euthanised, ten minutes before he was rubbing his bum on a tree in the paddock, and it cost me £140, booked in.
I think most people have a huge problem with actively ending an animal's life, a lot of people who go racing or even own a race horse, its a social thing, a nice day/evening out, where you get dressed up, it's easier to think that they go to, a farm, and live a lovely life, than have that conversation, the horse is coming out of training, is it better to have it euthanised? I could have bought for a nominal amount several flat horses, out of training, people think they are being kind to the horse, just like the people who are selling their horses for £500 on Preloved, think they are giving an animal they love a chance, when really its a fairy story they tell themselves to make them feel better.
Ex racers are by product of an industry, just like the dairy industry has had to face up to the shooting of bull dairy calves and find solutions, you would think that the racing governing bodies, who have an immense amount of control would have started tackling the problem, and retraining is only a very small part of the solution.
 

Wishfilly

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Also, just to add to my previous post, I think a lot of these animals are not OTTBs or RoR in the traditional sense, although they may have been in training for a brief period.

A lot will be nice-ish young horses that could theoretically go on to be a nice riding horse for someone, but it is the sheer numbers. Due to a previous job, I'm aware of how many young, unnamed (which means they haven't raced or come near racing) horses are sent to slaughter each week. Obviously I don't know how healthy they are, but I would imagine a lot are perfectly healthy, and as I say could have a nice life elsewhere- but I don't think anyone has the capacity to rehome 20-30+ young thoroughbreds each week!

The other side of this is that it's mainly the males who go to slaughter at a young age. The females will often be sold as low end broodmares- perpetuating the cycle.

If you wanted to solve this, having proper standards and gradings and restrictions on what can be registered as a thoroughbred broodmare might be a start. Restrict stallions to say, 50 coverings a year. Have restrictions on which stallions can be registered.

And I think it's the studs who ought to be held responsible- I know some (Darley/Goldophin obviously) do a lot to find the ones who don't make it homes. But they're also still churning out foals every year with no sustainable future.
 

meleeka

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I do think most racehorse owners manage to not think about ending an animals life, hence why they are passed to “dealers” to dispose of. That was what they said happened in Ireland in the programme. Those of us who are responsible owners understand that sometimes it’s the kind thing to do and that there are worse things than can happen to them. Hopefully some owners have now realised what the responsible thing to do is.
 

Tiddlypom

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British Horseracing Authority holds talks after slaughterhouse investigation https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57902663

'The British Horseracing Authority (BHA) has called for a UK abattoir to change its practices after a BBC Panorama investigation found evidence of race horses experiencing cruel deaths there.'

'BHA's welfare director James Given said: "We're all clear that the transporting of horses from Ireland to be euthanised in Britain must stop. So too should those practices in the abattoir featured in the programme, which appeared to cause distress to horses."'

'Horse Racing Ireland said it unreservedly condemned the practices shown in the footage from the abattoir.'
 

Wishfilly

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1.4m given by the industry towards rehoming racehorses!! That’s a miniscule amount of the money being made in the industry.

That's very roughly £127 per foal born last year- which in terms of costs of keeping a horse in e.g. a rehoming centre is not going to go very far. Obviously not every foal born will need to be rehomed, but it gives some idea of the scale.
 

ester

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I appreciate this study is on the physical impact of the projectile and how this makes sense - but to use a long barrel doesn't it need two people one to hold the horses head and one to use the gun? I can't see how you can stand close enough with a long gun to keep a horse calm and relaxed and get it at the right angle.

All his waving about seemed to suggest he was struggling with the same physics.

Sadly seen too many with the pistol and it seems much less intrusive and less stressful to the horse vs. a larger rifle.
It was my impression from previous 'stuff' that a long barrel was favoured not sure why but they must have a reason given that it is a bit unwieldy.
 

Wishfilly

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Actually, I do think the industry as a whole is responsible for the wastage. Yes, a lot of training yards look after their horses really well- probably better than many pet homes. But they are still feeding an industry where lots of young healthy horses are seen as "natural wastage".

I think a lot of people in racing look the other way to what goes on and say it's not their responsibility.

But then I left the industry partly because of what happens to horses that "don't make the grade".

I'm not sure people are surprised are they? I'm not, better that than they end up doing the rounds sold as novice rides by the bin end dealers while physically crocked but better not to have to do either at all and shoot them at home.

Personally, I think better they weren't born in the first place if their best possible outcome is either shot or bin end dealer, etc.
 

LadyGascoyne

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Stocktake everything that went through slaughter houses within a year of retiring from racing and fine the breeder, or importer if foreign. They can pass charges onto owners should they need to, and push the price of horses up which can’t be a bad thing.

Grade and restrict stallions and mares.

Charge owners a ROR surcharge for every horse they have in racing. Racing syndicates should have a named individual responsible for welfare. Selling off shares of horses should be limited, it only exacerbates the ownership without responsibility issue.

4000 foals a year is a lot of foals for the amount in racing.
 

palo1

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Tops spec Vet of the Year, Natalie McGoldrick has just written a brave post on Facebook saying how much she hated her time as a vet, in slaughterhouses. The horses were all terrified, without exemption, and so were cows and sheep.
I wish this was banned, and a humane destruction at home was compulsory.

I so agree with this and have never understood why horses at least can't be humanely destroyed at their place of residence, whether that be private, livery, race yard etc. Of course some folk would cheat on that of course but it should be possible, relatively easy to legislate and so, so much more humane than transport, often for hours to an abbatoir. There is simply no need for horses to have to go to an abbatoir. On that note, we do need more abbatoirs so that any animal for slaughter has less far to travel. The programme last night shone a nasty light on some elements of racing but a far grimmer light on our attitudes and organisation of death and disposal of animals generally. All owners of horses should be prepared, truly prepared; financially and emotionally to stand by their animals and see them safely, humanely euthanised at the end of their days. Racing has a lot of problems and there are also far too many people prepared to move horses on where those horses should actually just have a dignified end in a decent situation.
 

palo1

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But surely the people in the racing industry know and have known for a long time about what really goes one and yet nothing has changed for years.

Yes, but making content that is inaccurate, if only by suggestion makes it laughable. I am furious that the BBC has been so casually dire when raising these issues is important. If there was a programme about racing greyhounds and a wiry lurcher kept featuring it would probably seem more clear but anyone working with horses can tell the difference between a coloured warmblood and a TB. It's just shoddy programme making and the subject deserves both greater accuracy and attention to detail.
 

palo1

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I am struggling to understand the point of transplanting a microchip from a dead horse into a live one. Surely that would be on record as a dead horse, you couldn't claim it was the horse that was already known to be dead. Am I missing something?

Record checking of equine passports is...non-existant in my experience. I have never been asked for a passport to record prescribed bute (nor to check that my horses are signed out of the food chain which they all are). I have passports going back a number of years here. Removing a microchip is child's play for someone who has motivation to do that.
 

criso

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My vets are very good at checking, they tend to have a quick look when doing vaccinations and if it's not my regular vet will check when prescribing.

My previous tb had a French passport and that had 2 pages:- one that said destined for the food chain one that said not so we had to be careful with our est and n'est pas when checking where to sign.
 

palo1

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I am reluctant to raise this but watching the programme was dire in lots of ways. I did wonder if the reason why the 2 horses were in the kill room together though was because they couldn't be safely or humanely separated and the vet made the call that the two should go in together rather than continue to stress them by trying and failing to separate them/lead them away from each other. That thought is frankly heart breaking for me. :( I know that there are vets who will be desperately lacking in compassion doing this job but what was recorded was obviously illegal. Yet everybody on that few frames was organised about it so I did wonder if perhaps, in spite of everything there may be reasons why those two horses were together. I don't think it takes a huge leap of imagination or understanding to know that at times 2 horses would be utterly panic-stricken to be separated. I also think it may be virtually impossible at times to get a horse in the right position in that situation to use the right way of dispatch and that the vet and other people must have questioned and possibly sanctioned the use of shooting some horses from a distance for safety reasons. Panorama didn't address any of those issues at all but used them to present an audience pulling bit of cheap programme making. It is just terribly, horribly sad really. Racing has problems, TB breeding and disposal is certainly one of those. Our system of abbatoirs and the way we turn away, culturally speaking, from facing up to the deaths that we directly and indirectly cause through animal farming and leisure have a huge part to play in this sorry business. I certainly didn't think what the BBC aired deserved the title 'The Dark Side of Racing'. It is far more embedded than just racing.
 

DabDab

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Record checking of equine passports is...non-existant in my experience. I have never been asked for a passport to record prescribed bute (nor to check that my horses are signed out of the food chain which they all are). I have passports going back a number of years here. Removing a microchip is child's play for someone who has motivation to do that.

I think that highlights the varying levels of compliance from even by now pretty established regulation - my vets have never so much as looked at one of my horses over the stable door without having the passport in their hand first.

There is so much exceptionalism in every part of horse industry that going back 10-15 years I would have said that it is almost impossible to enforce any form of regulation in any part of it. But I have been surprised in the last few years that things do seem finally to be changing. I never thought I would see the day when the majority of UK yards abided by UK labour laws, and while we are not there yet, I do think it is possible now. So who knows, maybe the industry does have the ability to change. Racing is certainly the one that has the money to lead the way. A national, properly regulated re-home scheme would be a good start, and an end of travel to slaughter for those that can't be rehomed.
 

ycbm

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Mine check. I have heard of vets who will not take on horses unless their passports have been signed out of the food chain, so they have no need to ask for any passport on subsequent visits.
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