PTS

[ycbm]

I've found male vets to be quiet and respectful rather than openly comforting.
I guess this could be misconstrued as being uncaring.

There are also vets who find killing a horse very upsetting, and maybe they have to shut down a bit to hold it together themselves and get through the process. That would come across as very uncaring, when it is anything but. The last thing anyone needs is a vet falling apart, I'll settle for distant but professional if that's how they cope with a job they find distressing.
.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I don’t think I’d want a vet to try and comfort me. I can hold it together calmly until they leave. If a vet cried I’m not sure I’d handle that... is that weird?!

No, I thought the same as you when I read about the vet crying.

 

[meleeka]

I had a horrible experience with one of mine. By the time the decision to pts was made i’d had enough of the attitude of the attending vet. This was over the course of three visits during the day. I think part of my anger was directed at him because i was obviously distraught, but he was awful. In the end I left my OH to deal with the deed while i took my other one for a walk. I made sure I didn’t even see the vet on that last visit. Thankfully his pts skills were better than his bedside manner and I vowed never to let him on my yard again. luckily he left the practice shortly after.

I did pay my bill because ultimately, my horse didn’t suffer unduly he did the job that I paid him for. subsequent times i’ve had one pts have been calm and kind, but not emotional for the vet and I think they were spot on.

 

[paddy555]

There are also vets who find killing a horse very upsetting, and maybe they have to shut down a bit to hold it together themselves and get through the process. That would come across as very uncaring, when it is anything but. The last thing anyone needs is a vet falling apart, I'll settle for distant but professional if that's how they cope with a job they find distressing.
.

this. I don't want vets putting their arm around me although I have one who would and he would be equally upset as i was. (lovely man)
My policy is get them here, get horse PTS (and if I have already decided they are told not to examine it) try and remain cheerful with normal conversation, thank them many times and get them out. Then I can deal with me.

I would prefer distant. Their job is to remain detached. All I care about is if they are good at getting the stuff in.
If he was an efficient vet I would use him again whatever his bedside manner. Efficiency is all that matters to me at a time like this.

 

[Gamebird]

OP, I'm an equine vet and would be happy to answer questions re the drugs used to help put your mind at rest. I would standardly use 2 syringes for euthanasia, one with sedative (either one drug or a combo of 2-3) and one with euthanasia solution. There are a couple of main euthanasia drugs and choice of which to use depends on vet preference.

Re the passport - as others have mentioned, it is now standard to sign it and is a legal requirement. Basically every horse has had a sachet of bute at some point in their life, and if you don't know their full history you have to assume they have. It is our legal responsibility to sign that section of the passport, and isn't actually up to the owner whether it is signed unless the owner can guarantee the horse has never received drugs that make it ineligible for the food chain (ie owned the horse it's whole life and it has never needed veterinary treatment).

Also re the consent form (which I would guess is what the disclaimer was). Unfortunately, in the current litigation culture, vets have to cover themselves against all eventualities - gone are the days when those older male vets could do whatever they wanted, those of us now in the profession sadly live our life in fear of being sued and it is reflected in extra paperwork. One part of this is signed consent for procedures including euthanasia. Now, there are definitely cases where some vets may choose not to do this, perhaps where they have a long term relationship with clients, but even if they do ask for a form, it is not meant to cause distress or as a suggestion that you are not a "good client" but simply as part of protocol.

I am also an equine vet, of over 20 years standing. Threads like this make me want to either cry, or hang up my stethoscope. There is just no way of doing right for doing wrong. I think it is time to retire from social media.

 

[paddi22]

I would prefer distant. Their job is to remain detached. All I care about is if they are good at getting the stuff in.
If he was an efficient vet I would use him again whatever his bedside manner. Efficiency is all that matters to me at a time like this.

yeah I'd be the same. I don't expect a vet to put their energy towards comforting me or dealing with my emotions. they have a hard enough day without having to act as counsellors for every client as well. we don't pay them to be therapists, we pay them to put the animal to sleep as peacefully as possible using their professional skills.

 

[MurphysMinder]

this. I don't want vets putting their arm around me although I have one who would and he would be equally upset as i was. (lovely man)
My policy is get them here, get horse PTS (and if I have already decided they are told not to examine it) try and remain cheerful with normal conversation, thank them many times and get them out. Then I can deal with me.

I would prefer distant. Their job is to remain detached. All I care about is if they are good at getting the stuff in.
If he was an efficient vet I would use him again whatever his bedside manner. Efficiency is all that matters to me at a time like this.

I think it very much depends on your relationship with the vet. When I had my pony pts last year the vet who came out was one who had dealt with her many problems over the years She juggled her appointments so she could be the one to do the deed, was absolutely lovely and yes did have tears in her eyes and gave me a hug. She also sent me in the house while pony was taken away and dealt with all that too. I very much appreciated her care and approach when I was facing a horrible decision on my own.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

this. I don't want vets putting their arm around me although I have one who would and he would be equally upset as i was. (lovely man)
My policy is get them here, get horse PTS (and if I have already decided they are told not to examine it) try and remain cheerful with normal conversation, thank them many times and get them out. Then I can deal with me.

I would prefer distant. Their job is to remain detached. All I care about is if they are good at getting the stuff in.
If he was an efficient vet I would use him again whatever his bedside manner. Efficiency is all that matters to me at a time like this.

Absolutely this! We usually use the local Equine Crem and because she is horsey, we know her socially. When she comes, she remains practical, sorts out where the deed is to be done, and waits until afterwards to do any chatting to try to remove the emotion from the situation. I remember on one occasion a discussion about the haylage bale we had in the yard. We always go in and leave her to do the winching on. That is one memory that I really don't want or need. And I certainly don't need her, or a vet patting me on the arm or bursting into tears.

 

[Apizz2019]

Absolutely this! We usually use the local Equine Crem and because she is horsey, we know her socially. When she comes, she remains practical, sorts out where the deed is to be done, and waits until afterwards to do any chatting to try to remove the emotion from the situation. I remember on one occasion a discussion about the haylage bale we had in the yard. We always go in and leave her to do the winching on. That is one memory that I really don't want or need. And I certainly don't need her, or a vet patting me on the arm or bursting into tears.

Each to their own I guess. I don't think there is a right or wrong way for vets to behave in this situation.

Some of us owners need a hug and some don't.

Either way, I'm sure we all appreciate vets have an incredibly hard job to do and whether we think it or not, they do counsel us through issues with our beloved equines, intentionally or not.

I know a vet very well in a personal capacity and it is the client counselling he finds to be more emotionally draining than the animals he treats.

 

[Birker2020]

I had a nasty experience when a previous much loved horse was pts as the vet didn't explain about movement/noises afterwards and it greatly affected me when I touched the horse and he moved and grunted (twice).

I was so distressed that I wrote to Horse & Rider Magazine Q&A page and had a lovely one page reply dedicated to euthanasia and what happens before, during and after.

I would urge all vets to explain to owners that this can and does happen and its just the body shutting down. I too came up with all conspiracy theories and goodness knows what until I read the letter from the vet who the magazine use for replies and I will never forget the kindness shown in explaining it to me in detail. I just hope it helped other owners.

And the sadness and anger at the vet at the hospital who never took the time to explain and left me frightened and very very upset.

 

[paddy555]

I had a nasty experience when a previous much loved horse was pts as the vet didn't explain about movement/noises afterwards and it greatly affected me when I touched the horse and he moved and grunted (twice).

I was so distressed that I wrote to Horse & Rider Magazine Q&A page and had a lovely one page reply dedicated to euthanasia and what happens before, during and after.

I would urge all vets to explain to owners that this can and does happen and its just the body shutting down. I too came up with all conspiracy theories and goodness knows what until I read the letter from the vet who the magazine use for replies and I will never forget the kindness shown in explaining it to me in detail. I just hope it helped other owners.

And the sadness and anger at the vet at the hospital who never took the time to explain and left me frightened and very very upset.

I'm sorry you were distressed.

On a more general note there are lots of sites eg BHS an vets giving details as to what happens. If anyone hasn't been thro this it may help if they do some research so they have a good idea what is going to happen and what they are actually going to do on the day. Do you want to stay with your horse? prefer to leave? how do you get the crem out? would you prefer shooting even what is that policy of your vet.
Pre warned may help with the distress

 

[paddy555]

I am also an equine vet, of over 20 years standing. Threads like this make me want to either cry, or hang up my stethoscope. There is just no way of doing right for doing wrong. I think it is time to retire from social media.

I hope you stay. All of mine (about 12 or possibly more) have been PTS by injection. Several different vets and all brilliant. All horses sedated, calm, kissed goodbye and final injection and that was it. No mistakes, all good vets. I don't now what OP's problem was. I suspect that the vet was worried there would be comeback and took the correct action to get the form signed. We will never know. I think the majority on here think you are all doing a pretty good job with PTS and one which many of us would hate.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I'd want a vet to remain practical and slightly detached on the day of PTS.

When the late maxicob was PTS, my usual vet did a superb job as usual, and the only indication that she was upset herself was when she had a slight crack in her voice when she asked after he was gone whether we had something to cover him up with.

I later rang through to the office for them to pass on my thanks to my vet for the fact that everything had gone as well as it could, and the girls were very grateful for the call, they said how hard it is for the vets.

 

[ester]

Mum was a bit surprised to have a hug from the vet the other week but I don't think she minded actually I know she didn't mind, it had been a pretty bad evening and she had no horsey person support while going through it.

 

[SEL]

I'd want a vet to remain practical and slightly detached on the day of PTS.

When the late maxicob was PTS, my usual vet did a superb job as usual, and the only indication that she was upset herself was when she had a slight crack in her voice when she asked after he was gone whether we had something to cover him up with.

I later rang through to the office for them to pass on my thanks to my vet for the fact that everything had gone as well as it could, and the girls were very grateful for the call, they said how hard it is for the vets.

We had a golden oldie PTS last year and when I saw the vet a few weeks later she said the owner (who had moved hours away but decided not to move her OAP) had sent her a lovely card.

I also sent a card through to the practice who looked after my little pony when she had her operation. They did an incredible job with her and also with the slightly panicking owner who couldn't visit due to covid.

Please, please don't hang up your stethoscopes vets reading this. Its so easy to be disillusioned when you go into a career to help animals and feel that you aren't living your dream. Vet suicide statistics are really bad too, so we really need to put ourselves in their shoes more often and understand how tough their job is.

 

[meleeka]

I had a nasty experience when a previous much loved horse was pts as the vet didn't explain about movement/noises afterwards and it greatly affected me when I touched the horse and he moved and grunted (twice).

This happened to me too at the first pts I saw (not my horse but a friend who couldn’t cope and left me to it). it really affected me at the time, even though the vet explained once it had happened. I think it’s the reason I don’t hang around anymore after it’s done. When it was my own I walked away as she fell.

 

[MurphysMinder]

As the mother of a vet can I say how much your cards , thank you gifts etc are appreciated by the vets who must get so disheartened reading some of the comments posted .

 

[SEL]

As the mother of a vet can I say how much your cards , thank you gifts etc are appreciated by the vets who must get so disheartened reading some of the comments posted .

I think we also need to remember how young some of them are. On my last yard we had one of those emergency colics on a wet, cold, rainy winter night. It was an old horse and obvious to all of us that there was no hope. The vet on the call out was really young and I suspect was hoping for an easy 'get some fluids into it' type case. She did her job quickly and professionally but looked absolutely broken as she left.

 

[honetpot]

There are also vets who find killing a horse very upsetting, and maybe they have to shut down a bit to hold it together themselves and get through the process. That would come across as very uncaring, when it is anything but. The last thing anyone needs is a vet falling apart, I'll settle for distant but professional if that's how they cope with a job they find distressing.
.

I was having a discussion about this yesterday with someone from the emergency services, in their role they see things no one would wish to see, and would be difficult for anyone to process. In the old days, self care was fags and a drink at the back of the wagon.
I know I have a 'mode', even when handling difficult situations at home, I was in that mode when my mother and father died. I know I look sometimes blank, which sometimes more perceived of not being aware what is going on, when I am fully aware and going through the options. At work, especially when my children were small, it was something I used every shift I worked on the children wards.
I was watching an interview with the actress Helen McCorey who described when playing Medea every night, who kills her children, she could not go through those emotions every night, so she learned the skill, to play the part, but not feel the part, still be aware of everything of every thing on stage and covey those emotions to an audience. You need that separation to protect yourself.
Unfortunately we are often judged on how we appear, and not how competent we are, do you want someone who expresses their emotions or someone who is competent in a difficult situation, but will still internally process what happened later? Are we allowed to be human, and accept some people are less good at looking sympathetic, or so affected by situations their only option is to shut down, but are capable.
The rate of suicide amongst vets is high as a proportion of the workforce, and there may be other factors that affect this, other 'emergency and health care' teams tend to work in larger groups and have established support networks
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18192654/

 

[Birker2020]

I'm sorry you were distressed.

On a more general note there are lots of sites eg BHS an vets giving details as to what happens. If anyone hasn't been thro this it may help if they do some research so they have a good idea what is going to happen and what they are actually going to do on the day. Do you want to stay with your horse? prefer to leave? how do you get the crem out? would you prefer shooting even what is that policy of your vet.
Pre warned may help with the distress

Thanks, I know more now and I've watched an excellent video on YouTube showing a grey horse called Sugar PTS with injection should anyone feel they want to watch it

which is very helpful and cleared up a lot of questions which I didn't really want to ask on here for fear of being picked apart again.

I'm just surprised all vets don't mention this. My own vet and I had this conversation one evening when she stopped to watch my horse for a while before leaving after I'd called her out for colic. She said she'd always told people about movement/noise after a horse is pts to warn them.

 

[Lurfy]

There are so many worse ways for horses to die than humane euthanasia. I've been present for several of these endings with different vets and am eternally grateful for their expertise in quickly and quietly dispatching my much loved horses. If the horse had a peaceful ending there is nothing else that matters to me. Signing whatever, asterisks wherever would not eclipse the fact that the horse was pts calmly.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I do really hope any vets that might read this thread are not adversely affected by it. I am sure 95 per cent of us on here appreciate what a difficult time any PTS must be for you, and soul destroying if you find yourself in a run of bad luck, with several animals to PTS over a short period of time, and add to that even one owner criticising the sequence of actions that you took during PTS must be very, very difficult to deal with.

My vet when I lived in the UK was sadly one of those who chose to take his own life, you couldn't have met a more caring and compassionate man, and his skills as a vet were second to none.

No I don't need you to comfort me on a PTS day, that is not part of your job. I just need you there being professional and efficient and helping me to help my horse leave this world as calmly and quickly as possible. My personal thanks to all of you that do this emotionally draining job day in and day out.

 

[AmyMay]

Well said Mrs Jingle ??

 

[Apizz2019]

Perfectly put, as always @Mrs Jingle

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Well said Mrs Jingle ??

When I was sitting at my late OH's bedside in hospital, having been called in early in the morning, one of the nurses offered me a hug. I declined because I knew that would be my undoing and the important thing was that my OH had a peaceful death.
I feel the same about hugs etc from a vet. I would rather they saved their tears for the journey back to the surgery as I will save mine until after they have left my yard. I have appreciated a card and flowers after pts from a small animal vet surgery in the past.

 

[paddi22]

When I was sitting at my late OH's bedside in hospital, having been called in early in the morning, one of the nurses offered me a hug. I declined because I knew that would be my undoing and the important thing was that my OH had a peaceful death.
I feel the same about hugs etc from a vet. I would rather they saved their tears for the journey back to the surgery as I will save mine until after they have left my yard. I have appreciated a card and flowers after pts from a small animal vet surgery in the past.

this totally makes sense. when my mum died we had a night nurse who basically put her to sleep with morphine. she was a lovely down-to-earth lady who was calm and gentle, but didn't hug us or engage with us too much and left very quickly afterwards. I think that was wise behaviour on her part. I think if the professional was to encourage or allow a grieving person to suddenly release a huge amount of emotion in an interaction with them, then they can't just walk off after 5 mins and go to the next job leaving a wailing upset person. if someone is encouraging another person to release a lot of emotion then they need to be there to help them deal with it and process it. vets can't be everything to everyone, they are medical professionals there to do a job for the animal. much as they probably would want to comfort the person on a human level, they can't sit and hold someone while they cry for an hour, it's not practical time wise or healthy on any level for either of the parties. I can see why vets need to steel themselves a bit and be workmanlike. obviously if the have a very close relationship with the owner or pet they might let the mask slip a bit, but otherwise their job is to deal with the animal, not us really? .

 

[Pearlsasinger]

this totally makes sense. when my mum died we had a night nurse who basically put her to sleep with morphine. she was a lovely down-to-earth lady who was calm and gentle, but didn't hug us or engage with us too much and left very quickly afterwards. I think that was wise behaviour on her part. I think if the professional was to encourage or allow a grieving person to suddenly release a huge amount of emotion in an interaction with them, then they can't just walk off after 5 mins and go to the next job leaving a wailing upset person. if someone is encouraging another person to release a lot of emotion then they need to be there to help them deal with it and process it. vets can't be everything to everyone, they are medical professionals there to do a job for the animal. much as they probably would want to comfort the person on a human level, they can't sit and hold someone while they cry for an hour, it's not practical time wise or healthy on any level for either of the parties. I can see why vets need to steel themselves a bit and be workmanlike. obviously if the have a very close relationship with the owner or pet they might let the mask slip a bit, but otherwise their job is to deal with the animal, not us really? .

Yes, I don't want to be in the position of having to comfort the vet who is in tears on the yard, when I need to concentrate on my own grieving process.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I am also an equine vet, of over 20 years standing. Threads like this make me want to either cry, or hang up my stethoscope. There is just no way of doing right for doing wrong. I think it is time to retire from social media.

I’d say on the contrary, 99% of the replies are on your side.

 

[Red-1]

I don’t think I’d want a vet to try and comfort me. I can hold it together calmly until they leave. If a vet cried I’m not sure I’d handle that... is that weird?!

I am with you there. I used to have to deliver extremely bad news to people, strangers, and I was the same. I was there as a professional, to do a job. I would not have been able to complete my tasks, which were necessary, if I broke down each time.

I have had 2 PTS here, both times the vet was respectful, business like and calm. That is what I need. I will deal with my own emotions afterwards.

I am also an equine vet, of over 20 years standing. Threads like this make me want to either cry, or hang up my stethoscope. There is just no way of doing right for doing wrong. I think it is time to retire from social media.

That would be a shame. I used to work for a vet, looking after post op, as well as reception (and cleaning). I always thought of it as the animal is my client, not the person. It sounds like the animal was taken care of beautifully in this case. Thank goodness we have vets, like you, to help us with out critters.

 

[The Jokers Girl]

Correct or not, we should have been informed of any signature going into his passport, we were not. thank you.

Is your anger based on the fact your pony was signed out of the food chain, but you didn't want it to be and only found out after pts? It comes across this way in your posts. I'd be relieved if the vets signed my beloved pet out the food chain, not angry at them, as I wouldn't have to worry about what horrors they would go through once the end had come.
As far as I was aware the vets have a legal obligation to sign that section of the passport if they give them drugs, I.e. bute that means people can't eat the animal.

I'm sorry for what may be perceived as a blunt response but I am so confused by some of the posts I don't know how else to word it Have you misunderstood and thought they were signing them in?
Also why does it matter whether 2 or 3 drugs were used if you pony had a peaceful end?

I am sorry for your loss and hope you recover from your grief and anger and are able to move and on remember the wonderful times you had with your pet with happiness and not sadness x.