Rosette stealers !!!!!

[shetland pony]

Haven't read all replies but part of the problem may be that when you've been to the effort to go to the show, people want to enter as much as possible, and showing classes fill gaps

 

[honetpot]

hmm ok then what happens if like one lady I know she took her young horse out to its first ever show and her first ever show. she was the only one in the novice class so won by default. by your rules her and her 4yr old baby would then no longer be able to do the novice classes ever again. Thats like saying you did the prelim 1 test, it was a total disaster and you scored 30% but because you are the only entry you got a red rosette and now you must do the novice dressage tests!

Oh and for RC clubs that run a points system for end of year trophies the novice class would be a nightmare!

For those who say good competitors shouldnt be allowed at local level
Yes I take my young horse out to local shows, he is a very nice young horse who also does the affiliated novice classes and affiliated opens, we have even done a couple of HOYS qualifiers and I've been showing for over 20 years. But you know what, he needs the time in the ring, we often have an issue to work through that can only be worked through at a show even if you cant see it whilst watching from the ring side, it could be that he has decided that galloping in a group is a good excuse to lose the plot or that judges with hats on are terrifying or my last one was that every horse on the show ground was his best friend and he couldn't possibly ever go away from them even if he had never met them before (doesn't do it at home its a security thing so the more I get him out the better he gets).
there is also the fact that a lot of people cant afford the £50+ per class entry fees at a lot of county shows.

I said affiliated competition, this is for showing. There are very few affiliated shows were there is only one entry, certainly in 25 years I have never been to one, in fact as affiliated shows are usually qualifiers for major championships the judge may not award first place if the entry is not of high enough quality. They do not have to be county shows, and the entries are not all £50. If your baby four year old is good enough to get a first place at a local riding club, well done, but there are ample opportunities to do other classes, don't keep going in the novice class at the same show against the same competitors, go HC or do another show. No one is saying that there should not be a good standard at local level but if you continue to be a big fish in a small pond you are fooling yourself, move over and let someone else have a chance.
As an adult do you really need to win to know whether you how good you are or not? We have won and thought sometimes the pony did not do its best and perhaps someone else should have got it or the judge was not looking at the same ponies, sometime its works against us, I usually know what the top 3 will be roughly. As I said we used to do it for fun and as a day out, I do not need my ego fed by competing against people who are not as experienced as us, and would rather come bottom in a line of good ones and learn.
I took my baby to a show and because of the timing we did the Open before the Novice, of course we were last, we were rubbish, but it is all time in the ring. The show was the same, the same with the ring only the judge was different, If we had won, highly unlikely I would have been very pleased and we would have done something else if we were out of the class for the rest of the year.
I do think that also if your horse is getting ring crafty, or is just too exited, the show ring with a bunch of novices is not the place to school it, the good ones are good because all the work is done before they get there.
I was once at a show were someone in our class had brought a pony it so they could give it a smack where no one would not know it, they were showing at county level and told me how well they had been doing, they then moaned when they did not win. I have also been to a small show, really small, where a producer has turned up with a lorry load of ponies and cleared the board in every class they entered. To the producer they were novices, ( but not for most people)and she was doing her job and she had every right to enter but the child that came fourth with and clear round and a tidy show will never know she was up against the horsey equivalent of David Beckham and the red, blue and yellow rosettes won by the producers ponies will probably end up in the bin.
Dressage is different, Prelim, Novice is the level of test, you could win with a result of 60% but the % is actually a better representation of how well you have done not the colour of the rosette, if you won with 30% you should be even off the yard and I would be ashamed. To be honest I used to do a lot of dressage writing and I would see the same people, doing the same test,month after month getting roughly the same scores, but they obviously enjoyed it so what was the harm, but most of them were not actually winning.

 

[SmallHunter]

Just because some has picked the correct class for their horse, turned it out correctly, as well as themselves and schooled it to a standard where it goes well for them and produces a good show does not make them a pot hunter it is called doing your homework and learning ringcraft. So many people think that showing is easy all you do is walk, trot and canter on both reins and gallop if appropriate but it isn't that simple it is about playing to your horses strengths and using ringcraft to show it off well.
When I started we looked like this I was 15 and my mare was 7 and now I can pick out at least 10 faults in 5 seconds

we did ok like that got some rosettes but never higher than 4th or 5th (normally out of 4 or 5 )

Now I am 26 and she is 18 and in those 11 years we learnt, we changed, and we schooled and now we look like this

and our results went from middle of the pack or propping uo the bottom of the line to top 3 most of the time except when we have a moment which even at 18 she does still have. We can't afford to affiliate so we make the most of what we can do and do it to the best of our ability by paying attention and learning and I didn't have to pay for the knowledge it is all freely available if you care to look for it and if anyone ever asks for help and advice I would help them in a heartbeat

 

[shetland pony]

Haven't read all replies but part of the problem may be that when you've been to the effort to go to the show, people want to enter as much as possible, and showing classes fill gaps for some people, might do a dressage, and then 2 or 3 jumpings especially when there are 3" increases, also sometimes when it's the first few shows for horse or nervous rider, you might be doing better than expected and want a go at the next class, I can understand some people using lower heights as warm up, considering some of the warm up rings, but you could ask for a discount and to not be included in the placings.

With dressage surely it depends on other competitors not wrong class, you could enter one week and come first, then do the same the next week and come last even with a higher percentage. Obviously people should move up but sometimes shows don't have many classes, you might want an early class before it gets busy, you might not be confident enough, the jump between tests could be too much, also some people move up at 70 and others might want much higher before they would go to the next level.

If it's an open class, then it's for anyone (but the same combination shouldn't enter novice etc.) With different heights, is being able to jump 3' much of an advantage in a 2'6", because it's the bits between the jumps that count, and it's the same for everyone, and most people enter a bit smaller that they jump at home.

With showing, it is subjective, and depends on the others entered that day, but I don't think you should jump back down a few levels, but what about when 'big' shows are too far away, not often, and local shows don't have classes high enough, you want more practice in between/out of season, or your at the show anyway?

People shouldn't be allowed to go in classes below their ability, unless a confidence knock etc. And not the same combination in multiple levels in same show. (Also local shows near me give discounts so the more you enter the cheaper it is, that could encourage it, oh it's only £2 more, when I competed a few years back I entered clear round as a warm up, so it doesn't effect other competitors.

 

[WelshD]

I said affiliated competition, this is for showing. There are very few affiliated shows were there is only one entry, certainly in 25 years I have never been to one,

I follow showing quite closely and am regularly seeing classes where there are just one or two entries even at very large affiliated shows - sign of the times? Geographical? Who knows

At a big summer championship show this weekend there was just one entry in a class where the prize money was £100 (the money wasn't awarded but that's another story)

 

[shortstuff99]

I think the only true 'pot hunter' that I've come across was at this years trailblazers championships. The horse was actually ineligible for the class the girl had entered which she did to purely try and win, she was found out however.

 

[Moomin1]

Dressage is different, Prelim, Novice is the level of test, you could win with a result of 60% but the % is actually a better representation of how well you have done not the colour of the rosette, if you won with 30% you should be even off the yard and I would be ashamed. To be honest I used to do a lot of dressage writing and I would see the same people, doing the same test,month after month getting roughly the same scores, but they obviously enjoyed it so what was the harm, but most of them were not actually winning.

My gripe with unaff dressage is more the standard difference in the judging. I've seen some horrendous tests done with horses unable to bend around the corner even never mind work in any type of correct outline and yet they walk away with high 60's and sometimes 70's.

 

[ester]

I said affiliated competition, this is for showing.

so won affiliated showing competition?
Affiliated to whom? There are a lot of society's with slightly different levels, including breed shows? What about local 'clubs' like South West Ponies- essentially unaffiliated but with their own championships?
I would be really surprised if there at that many people out winning affiliated/county competing at unaffiliated show, I certainly haven't seen anything of that quality that wasn't 4 yo in somerset or Wiltshire/hamps. There are plenty that would appear nice types are nice but wouldn't stand any where near the top of the line up county.

 

[gembear]

You could argue, why keep climbing the same mountain, year on year? Not everyone wants to be particularly competitive or ambitious, I understand that, and may be happy working at a particular level, but in that case, why not say, right I've done that on X, lets have a go at something new. Or go HC if you just want to take part "for the fun of it". Most small shows are more interested in maximizing their income I think and aren't going to refuse the entry money for HC!

Why should they have to go HC? they pay the same money as everyone else and sometimes people are comfortable doing what they are doing and enjoy it. sometimes they dont want to try something new, they may not jump, they may not want to go fast (games) they may not feel comfortable going any higher and why should they have to?
Personaly I've climbed snowdon 5 times in the last year, why? because I enjoy the walk. not because its a challenge or difficult but because I can have a lovely walk, a natter with friends and enjoy the view from the top. so tell me why should I go climb some other mountain?

I can see both sides of the argument. As someone that only started unaff dressage over a year ago, i'm a novice rider on an experienced horse. He's competed up to elem in his prime, but that doesn't mean he does the perfect dressage test for everyone. He's a lazy sod and will put in zero effort if you don't ride him correctly.

We started with an intro for our first test and won, second test was prelim 12 & we came 5th.
Second time intro we came 4th, second test prelim and came 6th.
third time intro we came 3rd, second test prelim we came 1st.

Now I won't do any more intro's and will stick to the prelims because I feel even though i've only won 1 out of 3, i've gained enough confidence and experience to go for two prelims. The intro is suppose to be for novice riders or horses to get on their feet. However, if I totally lost my confidence or had other issues, I wouldn't disregard entering an intro again in the future if I needed it.

What I do roll my eyes at though is a girl who has been riding some time, with her experienced horse, wearing spurs... who always enters the intro and wins. I'm sure the last one she got 69%. She didn't even bother with the prelim. That is pot hunting.

 

[conniegirl]

I said affiliated competition, this is for showing. There are very few affiliated shows were there is only one entry, certainly in 25 years I have never been to one, in fact as affiliated shows are usually qualifiers for major championships the judge may not award first place if the entry is not of high enough quality. They do not have to be county shows, and the entries are not all £50.

you realy need to get to more shows then I know 3 RIHS qualifiers this year that have had 1 entry and anouther few that have less than 3. White rose county small hunter class is a classic example, 1 entry RIHS class. Infact if you look at most small hunter classes or show hack classes the entries have been very low accross the board.
Last year there was a coloured HOYS qualifier that had 3 entries in it
In fact this year alone I've stewarded or ridden at at least 10 affiliated shows where there have been empty classes or classes with only 1 exibitor.

If your baby four year old is good enough to get a first place at a local riding club, well done, but there are ample opportunities to do other classes, don't keep going in the novice class at the same show against the same competitors, go HC or do another show. No one is saying that there should not be a good standard at local level but if you continue to be a big fish in a small pond you are fooling yourself, move over and let someone else have a chance.

I think you need to go to specsavers, mine is a 5yr old, my friends is a 4 yr old and she was a total novice, She won her class as she was the only one in it! and novice classes are for novice ponys/horses which by deffinition a 4yr old IS!!!
infact at affiliated shows my 5yrold is automaticly a novice regardless of any 4yr old results under some society rules.
Why should I go HC on a horse that is a novice, I pay the same money as everyone else.
Novices should be novices for the whole season.

I do think that also if your horse is getting ring crafty, or is just too exited, the show ring with a bunch of novices is not the place to school it, the good ones are good because all the work is done before they get there.

Novice classes are for novice horses not novice riders. I know how to school a horse and how to get it set up for the county shows and there are somethings that just cannot be schooled at home and yes sometimes that means taking him to a show where I can give him a smack if nessecary or where I'll be forgiven for booting him in the ribs to get his attention back because he has seen a pony in the next ring that is honestly his bestest long lost buddy.

To the producer they were novices, ( but not for most people)and she was doing her job and she had every right to enter but the child that came fourth with and clear round and a tidy show will never know she was up against the horsey equivalent of David Beckham and the red, blue and yellow rosettes won by the producers ponies will probably end up in the bin.

and how exactly do you propose that producers get thier young horses with young new riders out and give them ring experiance? throw them in the deepend with the big boys at the county and affiliated shows? thats a beautiful way to terrify the riders and hence terrify the pony.

Dressage is different, Prelim, Novice is the level of test, you could win with a result of 60% but the % is actually a better representation of how well you have done not the colour of the rosette, if you won with 30% you should be even off the yard and I would be ashamed. To be honest I used to do a lot of dressage writing and I would see the same people, doing the same test,month after month getting roughly the same scores, but they obviously enjoyed it so what was the harm, but most of them were not actually winning.

we have all had days where everthing has gone wrong, the judge has hated your horse and the horse has decided that it is going to canter every trot etc.
the first dressage test I did on my last horse we had a 79% but only managed a second. The judge wasnt overly gerenous with that either, it was a fab test. A week later, same test, different judge and different setting my horse decided the world was going to eat him we had a sub 40% result but still a 2nd. He was an extremly talented but extremely quirky youngster. By your reconing should I or shouldnt I have left the yard? My new youngster has yet to do a dressage test.

You obvioulsy havn't produced many young horses for the show ring if you think they magicaly turn up and start winning at affiliated shows having never been out before or that all issues can be solved at home.

So yes i will continue to take my young horse out to local shows to give him the experiance and to iron out his issues and yes occassionaly it is nice to just have a day out showing where there is no pressure, no politics and where you stand a good chance of a red rosette as it gets very disheartening competing at county level sometimes with the faceyness and politics of the big qualifiers.

 

[LittleRooketRider]

It's not just young kiddie classes... I took one of our babies to a local show to do a novice workers - so 2ft/2ft3 was won by a girl I presumed was on a youngster or just happy at that height who I then saw competing in the open workers - 3ft/3ft3!

 

[Nancykitt]

There are a number of shows local to us - I expect it's a similar situation for lots of you. Although all are RC shows some are considerably more 'prestigious' than others and run a lot of qualifiers for the bigger shows. It's known that if you go to one of these you can expect the standard to be high at times. Occasionally producers will turn up at these shows with green horses and often win; the members sometimes pull their faces but technically these people aren't doing anything wrong.
Then there's the tiny local shows where it really is just about fun and nothing else. There's one not too far away from here and it used to be a great day out where everyone was friendly and people encouraged each other to have a go. Sadly (in my view) some really serious competitors have started going and wiping out the locals. When this started to happen I stopped going because, to me, it's just not in the spirit of the thing.
I still can't see what pleasure there is to be had in wiping the board, month after month, when the competition isn't that great and winning comes easy. Lots of people have beaten me but there's isn't a great deal of cause for celebration there as I'm such a poor rider.

 

[SmallHunter]

Winning at showing is hard work at whatever level if you think competing and winning should be easy then you haven't understood what a competition is.
You wouldn't take a horse that can't jump showjumping and then complain when you get beaten by horses that can jump.
You wouldn't go to dressage and not bother to learn the test and complain when you get beaten by those who did learn it.
So why is it OK to complain if you are beaten at showing by someone who knows what they are doing and does it well?

 

[honetpot]

so won affiliated showing competition?
Affiliated to whom? There are a lot of society's with slightly different levels, including breed shows? What about local 'clubs' like South West Ponies- essentially unaffiliated but with their own championships?
I would be really surprised if there at that many people out winning affiliated/county competing at unaffiliated show, I certainly haven't seen anything of that quality that wasn't 4 yo in somerset or Wiltshire/hamps. There are plenty that would appear nice types are nice but wouldn't stand any where near the top of the line up county.

Your are completely right, there are several breed/show societies and some of them cater to local members and just have a couple of classes that are linked to major shows with large prizes, or very prestigious shows, its a bit like having the divisions in football. As I have M&M's although there is a breed standards, I think there is a NPS, BSPS type and then the breed shows which when you get the breed show where the breed experts can ruffle feathers. You think your animal is a good standard and you test the water, if its going really well you move up to the next level. In my area there are many really good animals about, steward so I see a lot of them close up, thankfully they do not usually turn up at the local riding club or PC show.
The showing societies, be it national or local are always trying to give people a chance to compete at their level, what ever that is, and have fun, at a very reasonable price for the amount of work that goes in to organising them. That is why its really ticks me off when someone has turned up with a very expensive animal( whether its well ridden or well produced is an other matter), in very expensive gear, but they just aren't getting the results they want so they turn's up at show where some of the kids( and some adults) have hacked to it, or its their only opportunity because they can not afford the entries and travel costs to go anywhere else. Some of the RC you can only win the points championship if your only a member and live in the area.
Lets put its this way,our pony was champion at our local riding club with my twelve year old daughter the first time we took him out, she had been a member since she was five, doing lead rein gymkhana on a different pony, we never showed him there again. We continued to do RC with her bargain basement TB who's highest place I think was fourth.

 

[ester]

Nancykitt that is my experience of 'local' shows too, some do tend to have more qualifiers and hence a slightly higher standard of entry - I knew which were which back in Somerset but am still learning here in wilts and have no transport anyway so less important.

My chap is the ultimate all rounder and just to throw it out there honetpot has been getting older since I've had him (22 now) so even if more typey would have been too old to move on and show with the big boys. He is typical local show material really, well enough put together, well schooled with lots of fans but old fashioned in type. I have all the gear now but never used to, although much of it these days (jacket and boots and nice jeffries traditional bridle were all courtesy of LizzieJ on here wanting me to look proper if I was going to be doing it!)

Funny what you say about breed shows, I always presume that a royal welsh win means a lot more than hoys/rihs for the welshies .

 

[honetpot]

you realy need to get to more shows then I know 3 RIHS qualifiers this year that have had 1 entry and anouther few that have less than 3. White rose county small hunter class is a classic example, 1 entry RIHS class. Infact if you look at most small hunter classes or show hack classes the entries have been very low accross the board.
Last year there was a coloured HOYS qualifier that had 3 entries in it
In fact this year alone I've stewarded or ridden at at least 10 affiliated shows where there have been empty classes or classes with only 1 exibitor.

I think you need to go to specsavers, mine is a 5yr old, my friends is a 4 yr old and she was a total novice, She won her class as she was the only one in it! and novice classes are for novice ponys/horses which by deffinition a 4yr old IS!!!
infact at affiliated shows my 5yrold is automaticly a novice regardless of any 4yr old results under some society rules.
Why should I go HC on a horse that is a novice, I pay the same money as everyone else.
Novices should be novices for the whole season.


Novice classes are for novice horses not novice riders. I know how to school a horse and how to get it set up for the county shows and there are somethings that just cannot be schooled at home and yes sometimes that means taking him to a show where I can give him a smack if nessecary or where I'll be forgiven for booting him in the ribs to get his attention back because he has seen a pony in the next ring that is honestly his bestest long lost buddy.


and how exactly do you propose that producers get thier young horses with young new riders out and give them ring experiance? throw them in the deepend with the big boys at the county and affiliated shows? thats a beautiful way to terrify the riders and hence terrify the pony.



we have all had days where everthing has gone wrong, the judge has hated your horse and the horse has decided that it is going to canter every trot etc.
the first dressage test I did on my last horse we had a 79% but only managed a second. The judge wasnt overly gerenous with that either, it was a fab test. A week later, same test, different judge and different setting my horse decided the world was going to eat him we had a sub 40% result but still a 2nd. He was an extremly talented but extremely quirky youngster. By your reconing should I or shouldnt I have left the yard? My new youngster has yet to do a dressage test.

You obvioulsy havn't produced many young horses for the show ring if you think they magicaly turn up and start winning at affiliated shows having never been out before or that all issues can be solved at home.

So yes i will continue to take my young horse out to local shows to give him the experiance and to iron out his issues and yes occassionaly it is nice to just have a day out showing where there is no pressure, no politics and where you stand a good chance of a red rosette as it gets very disheartening competing at county level sometimes with the faceyness and politics of the big qualifiers.

I have actually produced all ours from scratch, if its not your full time job its does take planning, deciding when to go to next level, then you have set back, changing direction and coming at the problem a different way. The producers have an advantage because they usually have a couple of riders at shows and there is an extra pair of hands to ride a novice round, but that is what we would do take a something to ride and something for the trip out. I like youngsters, they are very fulfilling, showing for is part of their general education, on their way to big school.

 

[Nancykitt]

Winning at showing is hard work at whatever level if you think competing and winning should be easy then you haven't understood what a competition is.
You wouldn't take a horse that can't jump showjumping and then complain when you get beaten by horses that can jump.
You wouldn't go to dressage and not bother to learn the test and complain when you get beaten by those who did learn it.
So why is it OK to complain if you are beaten at showing by someone who knows what they are doing and does it well?

Not sure if this was aimed at me, but just to clarify...
I'm not complaining about being beaten by someone who knows what they are doing and does it well. I'm not actually complaining about being beaten at all because I no longer do any sort of competitive riding.
But one of the reasons I don't want to compete is the attitude of some (and I mean some, not all) seasoned, experienced riders that are very serious competitors and will go to any show because they seem addicted to red rosettes. The little local show was great fun when it was for people entering their very ordinary, un-flashy and much loved horses and doing their very best. When people winning at big shows and county level start turning up with their 'special' horses then it takes the fun out of it at that level.
There are many different levels to competitive riding. In an ideal world, there would be something for everyone to enjoy but that's not my experience so I simply don't do it any more. There was one woman with HOYS experience who turned up and said 'I don't settle for anything less than red'. Her pony totally outclassed the more ordinary gees and, of course, it did win everything. The point I'm making is - what's the pleasure in that for her? You've won at County, you've been to HOYS - what's the pleasure in going and whooping a load of riders who are in it for fun and may not have the time or resources to take things more seriously?

 

[Equi]

I also hate seeing this. There was recently a very small local jumping training show. 50cm cross pole type one. Everyone was either old and on big fat cobs, or about 5 on little ponies.

Then comes in this older teen on a connemara jumping pony that has been trained by whitakers and totally wipes the plate every week. Based on the style of his riding, he was no nor was the horse NEAR novice.

 

[Nancykitt]

I also hate seeing this. There was recently a very small local jumping training show. 50cm cross pole type one. Everyone was either old and on big fat cobs, or about 5 on little ponies.

Then comes in this older teen on a connemara jumping pony that has been trained by whitakers and totally wipes the plate every week. Based on the style of his riding, he was no nor was the horse NEAR novice.

Yes, this is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about.
Hugely experienced riders with incredibly impressive horses turning up and competing well below their level. Is there really any fun in that?
There were people at our little local show kitted out in second-hand everything, looking clean and smart, but put them next to someone in premium gear, immaculate new boots with spurs, made-to-measure jacket - and it's very, very obvious.
I'm not denying anyone the chance to do what they want to do in terms of competing, but I think that the obvious pot-hunters do a lot of damage and can, in the long run, have a negative impact on swelling the numbers at the small local shows.

 

[Pigeon]

Winning at showing is hard work at whatever level if you think competing and winning should be easy then you haven't understood what a competition is.
You wouldn't take a horse that can't jump showjumping and then complain when you get beaten by horses that can jump.
You wouldn't go to dressage and not bother to learn the test and complain when you get beaten by those who did learn it.
So why is it OK to complain if you are beaten at showing by someone who knows what they are doing and does it well?

It's actually more comparable to someone whose horse wins at 1m10 entering a 2'3 fun class and beating all the kiddies on lead reins.

If you're really that good at showing, why do you feel the need to go to the local 'fun' shows and wipe the board? It must stem from insecurity or a failure to pin in more suitable company.

 

[dollymix]

I don't show and don't in principle agree with "pot hunters" but I will say that some people attend local shows over and over, despite having what others have deemed to be "county standard" horses, because they dont have the money for affiliated comps.

Often you need to register with a society, the shows are far away (so more expensive to get to), and in general, all the gear has to be "top quality" in order to get a placing.

Whereas they might be able to hack to local RC show, or catch a lift. They don't need to register with any society and the classes are generally cheaper.

Just playing devils advocate because as I said, I don't show, but I also know that not everyone can afford to compete at higher levels even if they and their horse are capable.

 

[SusieT]

If all of you who are so offended by these people are only there to 'better yourself', 'compete against yourself' and don't really care about rosettes why do you care if they win????
And why should the shabbiest least groomed pony win just because it looks like it's the poorest family rather than the people who have spent time and money on doing well? What if someone likes winning- why does your 'only there to have fun' viewpoint get priority over theirs (whose fun might be to pick the right class, prepare well and win??)?? If the class is open, accept that everyone can enter, otherwise find the novice class - and accept that some novices are better than others!

 

[SmallHunter]

It's actually more comparable to someone whose horse wins at 1m10 entering a 2'3 fun class and beating all the kiddies on lead reins.

If you're really that good at showing, why do you feel the need to go to the local 'fun' shows and wipe the board? It must stem from insecurity or a failure to pin in more suitable company.

But this is where as someone pointed out earlier the lack of understanding of showing comes in as lovely as my horse is and I adore her a HOYS or RIHS horse she is not. We are turned out correctly for that level she is schooled well enough for that level but she is not and never will be typey enough for that level of showing I can not change that about her and so we stick to a level where we hold our own. I am not a professional I do it for fun just as much as anyone else at a riding club show, I don't do novice classes, or classes aimed at beginners, i don't do family horse pony or fun classes or even riding club horse classes I stick to the proper showing classes like Hunters and Veterans.
I am certainly not insecure but I don't look at my horse through rose tinted glasses and I know her limitations

 

[sasquatch]

The level of competing I do is well below what most would call 'local' level - I compete in the jumping league my yard runs that has outside competitors and their All Silver Fun Days which include jumping and showing. I have very, very limited showing experience and knowledge.

I see the 'pot-hunters' there, whilst I would have been jumping the 60cm and 70cm and no doubt many considered me a 'pot-hunter' myself, I stopped jumping the 60cm when I felt like it was becoming too easy.

However, even in the 70cm you can tell the winners or who you'd expect to place purely by the riders who come in on their horses and ponies who are known for jumping 1m20's affiliated. Whilst this isn't an issue, when they jump every class or start at 70/80cm and work their way up to the meter, it doesn't give an even footing to the rest of the competition who don't have horses with the same ability or schooled to the level of someone regularly competing the same horses round 1m20 tracks.

I find it incredibly satisfying to know my speedy little cob is beating the 1m20 horses with ease or losing by a few seconds or points of a second, but sometimes it's ridiculous when you can predict the top 3 - I know jumping is a lot fairer in that a fault is a fault, but when you're competing against a horse who is winning around 1m tracks in the 60 or 70cm class then it does become predictable as to who is winning.

I'm happy jumping round 70cm, it's a nice height for me and my horse as between fences he needs a lot of work and he's recently lost confidence and been out of work. Whilst he's capable of jumping much bigger, he isn't confident enough or ready to do it. So to be up against people who treat the 60s and 70s as a 'warmup class' it does become irritating. It can make you feel not too great come second to someone who is saying their win was easy and they didn't even have to try because they're winning much bigger classes. I find it most irritating when I have had a lovely clear from my horse, and a really nice round from him only to not be in with a chance of placing due to being against people who are treating the class as a warm up.

As I've said, I don't understand or do much showing, but I do understand jumping and find it ridiculous this happens even at the extremely local level - although I do think lots of the pony parents are as bad as the kids!

There's definitely a difference between them and those on green, inexperienced or horses who lack in confidence too. And the same for riders.

 

[rara007]

I have a reasonably smart native pony- he's no where near county standard on the flat (he's still in novice according to all the affiliated bodies, despite years of showing with his old owners), we don't look outclassed (IMO) but he's never going to be top of the shake up, and realistically as a 11YO gelding section D that's always gone pretty well that's not going to change. Some local show's by having the show saddle, bridle, saddle cloth, and having a well schooled pony, that's enough to not only win the class but go through to the championship. Others with qualifiers living in a very show heavy area, a few weeks before an affiliated show at the centre that's not enough. As such at my first unaff show with him I wasn't even placed- of the line up that was all 6 have now qualified for RIHS and a handful of those not placed too. The next unaffiliated show which was at a less flashy venue I did we won everything we did. The next we were genuinely over the moon at being placed 7th in a RIHS qualifier. A total life best for the both of us. There's now no 'close' county shows left this season and it's hardly worth a 3 hour drive to be bottom 1/4 of the line (unless your class is in the main ring or something ) . As I've done one county show and placed (ish) and won locally does that mean I now can't do the local shows?
At a show last october I was beaten in the championship to reserve (on another pony, at his first show) to a pony that was placed at Royal Windsor, qualified RIHS, placed Suffolk show, and was Welsh D performance champion for that year. It was a totally unaffiliated charity show- should they have been there? Absolutely, he was accompanying their other stallion to his first show and rather than waste a trip they entered the both of them. He by far in a way outclassed the rest of the show and thoroughly deserved his championship.
I'm off to an agricultural show this weekend with my veteran driving pony in a couple of ridden classes. He goes pretty smartly (BD elem, international driving) but he's barely ever shown, never won even locally as the times he's gone the local pony producers/show sponsors have been there, and to be totally honest isn't true to any type. He's not registered but has too much movement for a hunter pony. I'm taking him for the day out with a friend and am looking forwards to it. Am I wrong for having entered the novice? I'm within the rules (not to have won twice) and it'll be the biggest show he's ever gone to so I quite frankly don't care if anyone thinks that's wrong

 

[Nancykitt]

A

If all of you who are so offended by these people are only there to 'better yourself', 'compete against yourself' and don't really care about rosettes why do you care if they win????
And why should the shabbiest least groomed pony win just because it looks like it's the poorest family rather than the people who have spent time and money on doing well? What if someone likes winning- why does your 'only there to have fun' viewpoint get priority over theirs (whose fun might be to pick the right class, prepare well and win??)?? If the class is open, accept that everyone can enter, otherwise find the novice class - and accept that some novices are better than others!

I don't actually identify with a lot of the comments on this post but will respond to a few.
I can't see anywhere on this thread the suggestion that a 'shabby' pony should win just because a family is poor. Like I said, there are competitions at many different levels. There are little local shows for people who have no desire to go further and just want to enjoy a day out amongst friends. Then there are bigger shows for the more serious amateurs and then higher level competition.
What I am saying is that when those who belong at a higher level than the family fun show start going to those places just to win, it changes things. Even at the tiny shows people like as level a playing field as possible. Even very inexperienced people like to do well - but I still don't understand how a HOYS competitor can get pleasure from beating those who are maybe just starting out at the most basic level. Yes, of course the serious competitors want to win - but there are plenty of places for them to go and do just that, competing against people of a similar standard.
I see lots of clean and tidy, well-groomed and much loved ponies at these little shows. They are not scruffy and badly turned out but are very unlikely to go further than the lowest levels of showing. Doesn't mean they can't have a nice day out with friends. But when you get someone very successful turning up,who is very obviously in another league- and wiping the board- it leaves a very bad taste. Why haven't some of the local families 'spent the time and money' as you say- well maybe because they don't have the time and money?
This is why I opted out of competitive riding. I don't regret it at all.

 

[ozpoz]

I always remember the quote from a lovely little book"The Art of Showing" with beautiful 1950's photos.
"Teach your child to admire beautiful ponies and good riders, but always love your own pony best".

I do agree with the posters who feel you compete against yourself.

 

[ester]

The level of competing I do is well below what most would call 'local' level - I compete in the jumping league my yard runs that has outside competitors and their All Silver Fun Days which include jumping and showing. I have very, very limited showing experience and knowledge.

I see the 'pot-hunters' there, whilst I would have been jumping the 60cm and 70cm and no doubt many considered me a 'pot-hunter' myself, I stopped jumping the 60cm when I felt like it was becoming too easy.

However, even in the 70cm you can tell the winners or who you'd expect to place purely by the riders who come in on their horses and ponies who are known for jumping 1m20's affiliated. Whilst this isn't an issue, when they jump every class or start at 70/80cm and work their way up to the meter, it doesn't give an even footing to the rest of the competition who don't have horses with the same ability or schooled to the level of someone regularly competing the same horses round 1m20 tracks.

I find it incredibly satisfying to know my speedy little cob is beating the 1m20 horses with ease or losing by a few seconds or points of a second, but sometimes it's ridiculous when you can predict the top 3 - I know jumping is a lot fairer in that a fault is a fault, but when you're competing against a horse who is winning around 1m tracks in the 60 or 70cm class then it does become predictable as to who is winning.

I'm happy jumping round 70cm, it's a nice height for me and my horse as between fences he needs a lot of work and he's recently lost confidence and been out of work. Whilst he's capable of jumping much bigger, he isn't confident enough or ready to do it. So to be up against people who treat the 60s and 70s as a 'warmup class' it does become irritating. It can make you feel not too great come second to someone who is saying their win was easy and they didn't even have to try because they're winning much bigger classes. I find it most irritating when I have had a lovely clear from my horse, and a really nice round from him only to not be in with a chance of placing due to being against people who are treating the class as a warm up.

As I've said, I don't understand or do much showing, but I do understand jumping and find it ridiculous this happens even at the extremely local level - although I do think lots of the pony parents are as bad as the kids!

There's definitely a difference between them and those on green, inexperienced or horses who lack in confidence too. And the same for riders.

Well that would be easily resolved by the organiser putting a money limit on the classes as most wouldn't have got to fox without winning some. Though you must know some very odd people as I don't know anyone competing even disco and above let alone fox!! That would jump unaff 70cm, that is just bizarre.

 

[ester]

For me essentially showing is an excuse to make my pony look pretty, have a nice day in the sunshine with him, have a couple of people say how lovely he is/can't poss be 22, get a nice photo of him looking shiny and any rosette is a bonus. That is because he is what he is and I don't think it's a personal reflection on either of us if something is better conformed or goes better than him. Much more competitive dressage as that is a judgement on how good my schooling is .

 

[loobylu]

Erm, are competitions meant to be a 'level playing field'? Surely the idea is that the best on the day wins.
This is from someone who hasn't won a rosette since 2013! I was third from last in a BE100 on Sat. I was certainly not the third worst rider, and my horse jumped with ease, and was vastly more relaxed in the warm ups. I had an amazing day and was delighted.
I used to do a little showing with a hunter pony. Again I felt happy to be just behind the house/ rihs ponies in most line ups.