Sense check please on a mild lameness plan?

I would check it was actually the hoof/fetlock and no higher, check nothing broken or growing in there (and no arthritis, however small) then if inconclusive turn away properly (not on livery yard, in a settled herd at a retirement place or similar with plenty of space and not much need to run around and be silly). I would then leave for six months to a year. I turned away one after an operation that the vets didn’t think would come right. A year later I brought her back into work, corrected the uneven muscle development and she has been completely sound ever since.
 
maya2008 said:
I would check it was actually the hoof/fetlock and no higher, check nothing broken or growing in there (and no arthritis, however small) then if inconclusive turn away properly (not on livery yard, in a settled herd at a retirement place or similar with plenty of space and not much need to run around and be silly). I would then leave for six months to a year. I turned away one after an operation that the vets didn’t think would come right. A year later I brought her back into work, corrected the uneven muscle development and she has been completely sound ever since.
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He’s had everything blocked higher with no luck.

I’m not in a rush to turn him away anywhere else at the moment, he’s a companion for my other horse and his weight will be much better maintained with stabling on soaked hay during the day as they are currently.

Something to think about post summer.
 
scats said:
Very true! My chiro only has to try and move me a certain way to get a complete resistance of my SI joint (although it’s usually accompanied by a pained groan!)
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Flame_ said:
Keratoma is one of the few things they can address at these places that has a good prognosis with treatment, it should also be diagnosable by x-ray. IMO most of the complicated to diagnose stuff is as, or more, likely to improve with rest then conditioning than anything else.

OP. Could you turn him out in a small pen for a couple of weeks so the movement is really restricted than gradually increase the area? I'd do that then start conditioning next year.
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Not always, mine was found on xray only because it had taken a quarter of his pedal bone and was huge.

Others I have know were only found on mri.
 
Michen said:
He’s had everything blocked higher with no luck.

I’m not in a rush to turn him away anywhere else at the moment, he’s a companion for my other horse and his weight will be much better maintained with stabling on soaked hay during the day as they are currently.

Something to think about post summer.
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You basically need him to stop playing and just do boring mooching around, if it is soft tissue. Otherwise it won’t ever heal. A calmer of some sort to make him less likely to leap around maybe?

I would mri given what you have said, will hopefully get you a definitive answer. Then you can decide from there.
 
maya2008 said:
You basically need him to stop playing and just do boring mooching around, if it is soft tissue. Otherwise it won’t ever heal. A calmer of some sort to make him less likely to leap around maybe?

I would mri given what you have said, will hopefully get you a definitive answer. Then you can decide from there.
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Yes, I am aware of what’s required. Generally the horses are very chilled on summer routine as they are turned out late and bought in early. I am keen to keep an eye on him, and his weight for the time being.

I will find a solution that works best for myself and my horse.
 
I would have to know. So I'd likely be getting the MRI. But that's me.

I keep wanting to say, "or I would turn away" but the need to know about what it is and how to treat it would eat away at me. However, not everyone is this neurotic ?
 
CanteringCarrot said:
I would have to know. So I'd likely be getting the MRI. But that's me.

I keep wanting to say, "or I would turn away" but the need to know about what it is and how to treat it would eat away at me. However, not everyone is this neurotic ?
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I’m feeling the same. But I am also feeling unwilling to spend thousands of pounds on him.

Unwilling doesn’t mean won’t though ?
 
Really feel for you.
I'm another that would need to find out so would probably go for mri/further investigations *but* I dont think theres a right answer here more a personal choice.
 
hollyandivy123 said:
did the lameness only show under saddle, sorry if i have missed this point.
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Yep under saddle only. It was showing on trot up, until we medicated the fetlock and then that went away. But under saddle never really changed.

So I guess it does scream fetlock maybe?
 
I wonder if the fetlock is secondary, as in the actual cause/main problem is not the fetlock. My gut says hoof and/or fetlock, but idk how truly worthy my gut feeling is over the internet :p

Just remembered about a friends horse had some soft tissue thing in his hoof that was a very, very, subtle lameness, more noticeable when riding, and took awhile to get right. Spent a lot of time and money at one vets, when going to another, with a MRI right from the start would've actually be cheaper and yielded a quicker result. Of course now I can't recall exactly what *it* was.

I am invested in this now and want to know what it is ? of course it is your horse and your decision.
 
CanteringCarrot said:
I wonder if the fetlock is secondary, as in the actual cause/main problem is not the fetlock. My gut says hoof and/or fetlock, but idk how truly worthy my gut feeling is over the internet :p

Just remembered about a friends horse had some soft tissue thing in his hoof that was a very, very, subtle lameness, more noticeable when riding, and took awhile to get right. Spent a lot of time and money at one vets, when going to another, with a MRI right from the start would've actually be cheaper and yielded a quicker result. Of course now I can't recall exactly what *it* was.

I am invested in this now and want to know what it is ? of course it is your horse and your decision.
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So my vet says fetlock makes sense because of the poor hind feet, it can sometimes give them fetlock pain.

The feet are due some more x rays but look much better even to the naked eye.

He's defo not lame in front as I had the fronts blocked too. I'm not ruling out SI though, as it doesn't always block successfully.

But so tricky, do I MRI the fetlock/hoof or bone scan the whole horse :D
 
Michen said:
Yep under saddle only. It was showing on trot up, until we medicated the fetlock and then that went away. But under saddle never really changed.

So I guess it does scream fetlock maybe?
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ok sorry for the questions, feel free to ignore

1. lame on a circle or straight line under saddle?
2. lame on the same leg if you change your diagonal to the opposite?
3. lame on a circle or straight line with saddle, girth tightened for riding but no rider?
4. how is your bare back riding, if you pop on with no saddle and see if lame circle or straight with weight of a rider?

i ask this because to me it highlights back/higher up, the lameness being compensatory, especially as it didn't change under saddle. it could be a case of bad hoof balance, lead to compensation which is now showing it self up as this lameness.............just musings and i am sorry no magic wand or thought from me!
 
hollyandivy123 said:
ok sorry for the questions, feel free to ignore

1. lame on a circle or straight line under saddle?
2. lame on the same leg if you change your diagonal to the opposite?
3. lame on a circle or straight line with saddle, girth tightened for riding but no rider?
4. how is your bare back riding, if you pop on with no saddle and see if lame circle or straight with weight of a rider?

i ask this because to me it highlights back/higher up, the lameness being compensatory, especially as it didn't change under saddle. it could be a case of bad hoof balance, lead to compensation which is now showing it self up as this lameness.............just musings and i am sorry no magic wand or thought from me!
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Straight line and circle
Not sure
Lame with rider
Wouldn’t ride him bareback last time I tried he panicked ?

Vet says it’s not unusual to see subtle lameness with added weight of rider etc.

Agree, who knows though. Seems almost impossible to diagnose.

I’m also worried even if I take him to referral place the Adrenalin may make him look sound under saddle.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Can you get some good video taken at home of him under saddle which shows the lameness? Changes of pace and rein etc, maybe pole work too?

Then it's banked and you can show it to the referral vet if he's sound on the day?
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I can but what’s the point if they can’t see more lameness on the day, as I expect they would want to do their own blocks etc which would be fruitless if nothing to block? Sort of negates the point of taking him unless it’s in for something specific ie MRI scan.
 
as he came from ireland he may still be growing, having a growth spurt, right time of year, i would do in hand road walks, small polework in hand and day turnout, perhaps in at night for good rest periods, and perhaps back end big muscle massage incase he`s holding himself
 
tristar said:
as he came from ireland he may still be growing, having a growth spurt, right time of year, i would do in hand road walks, small polework in hand and day turnout, perhaps in at night for good rest periods, and perhaps back end big muscle massage incase he`s holding himself
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He’s basically done that for the last 6 weeks. In hand poles, long reining with a bit of riding. Pretty much all at a walk.
 
Michen said:
I'm not ruling out SI though, as it doesn't always block successfully.
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My very pragmatic vet did ultrasound my mare's SI and found very tiny arthritic changes but popped some steroid in anyway - she was like a different horse. Vet said she doesn't block SI any more but if suspicious will pop a small amount of steroid in and assess response.

I still think videos can be helpful. If you can catch the behaviour at home then it does help a vet think about next steps rather than relying on them showing subtle lameness when the adrenaline is up.
 
Right, my vet has spoken to Jessica Kidd (referral surgeon). She thinks we need to do a couple more blocks before potentially sending him to her- namely the digital sheath area and also the foot.

Given he did respond to the fetlock being medicated, albiet not entirely, it does seem that this could be a likely source of the issue. If we get a positive block then we can look to have him in to her for an ultrasound (potentially it wasn't showing up when my vet looked, or it was missed, so a second set of eyes could be useful).

I absolutely cannot believe I'm writing this, because it's all too similar to Boggle, where I thought he was going to need surgery to tidy up adhesions in the sheath. Also on the right bloody hind!!!! And it seems that Bear may have a similar type of injury.

Bleh. Will know more tomorrow after the vets been again!
 
Well it's not foot or anything below the fetlock (pastern area). But we did have a semi successful block into the digital sheath, but it took a while. Vet said usually if it is the actual sheath then the block would be fairly quick but because it took a good 30 mins there's a likelihood it's because the anesthetic has travelled.

So we are going to scan again tomorrow incase something was missed or wasn't showing originally.

Failing anything on scan, as it seems very much soft tissue I think I will simply treat as such with box rest and in hand walking rehab over the next 3 months as per Boggle. Unless there's a really compelling reason to MRI (ie could be surgical and need to know).
 
CanteringCarrot said:
Interested to see what the scan does or doesn't reveal.

But ugh, why can't horses just not do these things?!
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Tell me about it. And riding him for the vet today just made me think I actually really don’t even have much interest in keeping him. I’m “annoyed” and frustrated at all this but not heartbroken like I was with Boggle. The plan was he would be “mostly” loaned to my friend from the yard and I’d continue paying a good chunk of his costs and hunt him a bit so he has a use for me.

I’m afraid now that he doesn’t (well, likely doesn’t this winter at least), and that I’m still struggling to find a saddle for him without spending another 2k, I think I’m going to get him right/sound and then sell him- not that he would be worth much. I will make sure he’s in the best possible nick though and fully rehabbed.

Or full loan him but up to loaner to take on all costs, tack etc.

Is that awful? I am so fond of him but ultimately I feel different shelling out lots of money for him if he can’t be useful for me.
 
Michen said:
Tell me about it. And riding him for the vet today just made me think I actually really don’t even have much interest in keeping him. I’m “annoyed” and frustrated at all this but not heartbroken like I was with Boggle. The plan was he would be “mostly” loaned to my friend from the yard and I’d continue paying a good chunk of his costs and hunt him a bit so he has a use for me.

I’m afraid now that he doesn’t (well, likely doesn’t this winter at least), and that I’m still struggling to find a saddle for him without spending another 2k, I think I’m going to get him right/sound and then sell him- not that he would be worth much. I will make sure he’s in the best possible nick though and fully rehabbed.

Or full loan him but up to loaner to take on all costs, tack etc.

Is that awful? I am so fond of him but ultimately I feel different shelling out lots of money for him if he can’t be useful for me.
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Not awful. I'd shell out endless amounts for my heart horse but less so for the other...
 
Michen said:
Tell me about it. And riding him for the vet today just made me think I actually really don’t even have much interest in keeping him. I’m “annoyed” and frustrated at all this but not heartbroken like I was with Boggle. The plan was he would be “mostly” loaned to my friend from the yard and I’d continue paying a good chunk of his costs and hunt him a bit so he has a use for me.

I’m afraid now that he doesn’t (well, likely doesn’t this winter at least), and that I’m still struggling to find a saddle for him without spending another 2k, I think I’m going to get him right/sound and then sell him- not that he would be worth much. I will make sure he’s in the best possible nick though and fully rehabbed.

Or full loan him but up to loaner to take on all costs, tack etc.

Is that awful? I am so fond of him but ultimately I feel different shelling out lots of money for him if he can’t be useful for me.
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I mean, I get it and can see where you're coming from.

You might have to deal with a not so thrilled Boggle if you sell his Bear :p
 
FlyingCircus said:
Not awful. I'd shell out endless amounts for my heart horse but less so for the other...
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Thanks. Though I feel nervous about the idea of selling him even once sound. He’s had raised liver enzymes (now clear), shit feet (now improved) and now this injury, so he would be being sold either off the back of a box rest rehab or from the field once healed. Likely the latter.

Who would even want him ?
 
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