Sense check please on a mild lameness plan?

[Caramac71]

I can only speak from my own experience but (over a long period) we had several highly recommended vets, chiros, chirovets, physios who all spent time watching the horse move and none were able to get to the root cause. Tom Beech was our final resort, I asked him for his honest opinion on whether we should give up and retire the horse. I can’t remember if he saw her move on our early visits but he has got to the bottom of her issues and we now have a happy rideable horse.

I’m quite shocked at the accusations made by people that have never seen him work. In my experience he is far from arrogant or lazy! And I have never felt he tries to take my money unnecessarily. In fact, on one occasion he arrived for the booked appointment, did his usual assessment, found she only needed minimal treatment, and then said there was no charge as he’d not needed to do much more than a check up.

He’a always responsive if we’ve got any problems, asks for videos if we have concerns and gives advice inbetween visits.

I would agree that he works differently to other professionals we’ve used but I only have positive things to say about him.

 

[teapot]

He's not tweaked something in the field/feeling the hard ground?

Have you had him scanned with thermography techniques? I know it's probably the latest fad, and not a true diagnostic tool, but I work with someone who scans and it sounds really interesting!

 

[fredflop]

Rob Jackson worked miracles on one of my horses... and was hopeless with another of them. (Long story I can discuss in PM if needed!)

 

[ycbm]

I think you might have taken my place on the clinic today Michen (I had to cancel earlier in the week). So its interesting to hear your thoughts!

Hmmm the not watching Bear move/trot up is an odd one, i'd definitely have been left confused.
The more I think about it though, the more I think I like the idea...
I booked to see Tom because I wanted him to look at the whole horse, something vets so rarely do ime. I think we can fixate on the obvious problem/lameness and ignore the underlying cause. On that basis, I can see why Tom might be successful in cases where the true cause hasn't been found(?)

That's a very good point.
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[scats]

I know it's late but I'm just thinking that no one has ever seen me trot up, or required me to yelp during prodding to assess my own SI issues ?. It's pretty obvious when they start prodding ?

Very true! My chiro only has to try and move me a certain way to get a complete resistance of my SI joint (although it’s usually accompanied by a pained groan!)

 

[Trouper]

The whole point of using someone like Tom is that they do do things differently. If he trotted up and did just the same tests that conventional vets do, there would be no point in travelling to use him. He can tell more from what is under his hands than what is before his eye.

However, no, he is not a miracle worker and I have had to pts one of mine when we just ran out of road with him and there was nothing else we could do. I would still trust Tom to find things that my own vet had clearly overlooked but, if there is very little to find, then that will be the result!!! I have happily been in that position, too, and the bill was worth every penny for my peace of mind.

 

[Tiddlypom]

The whole point of using someone like Tom is that they do do things differently. If he trotted up and did just the same tests that conventional vets do, there would be no point in travelling to use him.

Of course an osteo vet treats a horse differently to a conventional vet, that's not the issue here though, is it.

Watching the horse move before treating it is a fundamental requirement of a thorough assessment, though, especially with a subtle offness. If people are happy to shell out £250 to someone who bypasses this part, then grand to them.

 

[Michen]

Of course an osteo vet treats a horse differently to a conventional vet, that's not the issue here though, is it.

Watching the horse move before treating it is a fundamental requirement of a thorough assessment, though, especially with a subtle offness. If people are happy to shell out £250 to someone who bypasses this part, then grand to them.

I’m happy to spend £250 on someone who bypasses any part that we’d expect them to do “normally”, if what they do do helps my horse.

A shame that I won’t be able to confirm the latter bit either way. Although if I popped Bear on the lunge and he was cantering left lead every single time on left rein. I’d call that an outstanding success!

 

[Michen]

I can only speak from my own experience but (over a long period) we had several highly recommended vets, chiros, chirovets, physios who all spent time watching the horse move and none were able to get to the root cause. Tom Beech was our final resort, I asked him for his honest opinion on whether we should give up and retire the horse. I can’t remember if he saw her move on our early visits but he has got to the bottom of her issues and we now have a happy rideable horse.

I’m quite shocked at the accusations made by people that have never seen him work. In my experience he is far from arrogant or lazy! And I have never felt he tries to take my money unnecessarily. In fact, on one occasion he arrived for the booked appointment, did his usual assessment, found she only needed minimal treatment, and then said there was no charge as he’d not needed to do much more than a check up.

He’a always responsive if we’ve got any problems, asks for videos if we have concerns and gives advice inbetween visits.

I would agree that he works differently to other professionals we’ve used but I only have positive things to say about him.

That’s great to hear. And I agree, I found him very personable and I liked how he explained things.

In hindsight I wish I’d asked him whether/why he didn’t want to see the horse move but I got swept up with it all and didn’t really think about it as much until after. I didn’t think mentioning it in a report would ignite quite such a conversation, so I regret that somewhat now!

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I can't be the only person who's looked at their horse standing in the field and thought they looked lame and known which limb is the issue? All it is is noticing a change from what is normal.

He sees horses with issues day in and day out, he must be attuned to knowing what different issues look and feel like.

Not trotting up wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.

 

[Trouper]

In hindsight I wish I’d asked him whether/why he didn’t want to see the horse move but I got swept up with it all and didn’t really think about it as much until after. I didn’t think mentioning it in a report would ignite quite such a conversation, so I regret that somewhat now!

Please don't regret it! These conversations are good to have and everyone's point of view is valid. I find they help to settle my mind on what I believe and what I would want to do for one of mine.

 

[Michen]

Hmmm bad news on the Bear front. Still lame under saddle.

I am a bit reluctant to turn him away when we don’t actually know what it is, in case it’s something that needs box rest/walking/even surgery. Although it mostly blocked to the fetlock there is a chance it could be in the foot and the fetlock is sore as a result, so I’m at a bit of a loss.

We blocked the fetlock joint specifically today and it made no difference.

I am pretty much out of insurance money but tempted to chuck some money sending him to an orthopaedic surgeon to see if they can have more success in finding what’s wrong.

I guess there is a possibility of something like a pedal bone fracture even that’s not showing on x ray, and it’s that kind of thing that’s worrying me about going undiagnosed.

Argh! It’s very frustrating when his left canter lead is mostly back and he feels really good.

 

[milliepops]

oh that's frustrating
good news about bog tho.

 

[Michen]

Really frustrating. I was convinced he would be sound!

 

[fredflop]

Can it be given an mri?

 

[Michen]

Can it be given an mri?

Yep at my expense.

 

[Tiddlypom]

How frustrating.

He's young, you understandably really want to know what's going on.

Your idea of a referral to a really good orthopaedic vet sounds the most likely way to narrow down wtf it is, if you can stand the £££s that might be incurred.

Ruddy horses.

 

[ycbm]

Hmmm bad news on the Bear front. Still lame under saddle.

I am a bit reluctant to turn him away when we don’t actually know what it is, in case it’s something that needs box rest/walking/even surgery. Although it mostly blocked to the fetlock there is a chance it could be in the foot and the fetlock is sore as a result, so I’m at a bit of a loss.

We blocked the fetlock joint specifically today and it made no difference.

I am pretty much out of insurance money but tempted to chuck some money sending him to an orthopaedic surgeon to see if they can have more success in finding what’s wrong.

I guess there is a possibility of something like a pedal bone fracture even that’s not showing on x ray, and it’s that kind of thing that’s worrying me about going undiagnosed.

Argh! It’s very frustrating when his left canter lead is mostly back and he feels really good.

What a pain. You really don't have much luck with horses the last few years, do you? I'm hoping that you can get this issue straight and then have a few years of completely uneventful Bog and Bear owning. I had three years of horse going wrong once, I know how it feels when it just never stops.
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[Red-1]

Oh no, sorry to hear that. Hoping your vet will have some ideas. X

 

[iknowmyvalue]

Sorry to hear this, I hope you get some answers soon.

MRI might not be a bad shout, the cause of Henry’s 2 mystery lamenesses were only visible on MRI. Admittedly those lameness were more severe, but still.

But agree, might be worth seeing what an ortho vet at one of the big hospitals thinks.

 

[Michen]

What a pain. You really don't have much luck with horses the last few years, do you? I'm hoping that you can get this issue straight and then have a few years of completely uneventful Bog and Bear owning. I had three years of horse going wrong once, I know how it feels when it just never stops.
.

Thanks. I said that to my vet and he said well how many people would have got me out at what are really small, subtle things that could easily have been ignored.

Sometimes I wish I could be the person that happily does that!!

 

[Michen]

How frustrating.

He's young, you understandably really want to know what's going on.

Your idea of a referral to a really good orthopaedic vet sounds the most likely way to narrow down wtf it is, if you can stand the £££s that might be incurred.

Ruddy horses.

I can. It sounds awful but I also don’t really want to ? if it was Boggle there would be no expense spared but I don’t feel that way about Bear when he’s so young and unproven.

That said I’m not sure I could deal with the guilt if I did just turn him away and then he never came right because it was something that needed treating.

So £££ it is I suppose

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Did they find anything on xray? Sorry can't find the post to say if it was xrayed or not.

 

[Michen]

Did they find anything on xray? Sorry can't find the post to say if it was xrayed or not.

No nothing on X-ray or scan.

I’ve no idea what to do tbh. Keep swinging from referral to specialist or shove in field. Or even box rest and hand walk and treat like soft tissue.

Tricky.

 

[scats]

Sorry to hear this Michen. I do feel your pain on the luck stakes, I was ready to throw in the towel a few years ago, after 15 years of none stop bad luck.
FWIW, if Bear was mine, I would probably go for the MRI. I’m one of those people who needs to know whats going on so I can make a better plan of how to proceed. I’m not a very good ‘let’s see what happens’ person... I think it’s the lack of control I don’t like.

 

[Boulty]

Ah bugger! It's an awkward one... Probably would go for MRI in your shoes just to be in the know. (But then I do like to know... did take the fat one to Tom in the end... suspected gut pain & pony most unimpressed with new regime of having breaks from grass & wearing a muzzle when out) A less expensive next step might be to get a specialist or radiologist to review existing x-rays & any USS images just in case anything really subtle was missed as it does happen sometimes.

Ooor if pretty sure it's in the foot attempt barefoot rehab & see where you are with the lameness when you've got a good landing & back of the foot (also allows you to monitor how he's wearing his feet & if he's breaking over straight or rolling over to one side a bit?). Only musing about that as know he didn't have the best feet when he arrived although I believe they've improved a lot since? Perhaps not if you're genuinely including a pedal bone fracture as a possible though!

 

[Slightlyconfused]

No nothing on X-ray or scan.

I’ve no idea what to do tbh. Keep swinging from referral to specialist or shove in field. Or even box rest and hand walk and treat like soft tissue.

Tricky.

With my history with horses and lameness I always investigate to a point. Tell vet this is my l limit money wise, an dgo from there.

I definitely think its worth the mri, and a chat with the ortho guy. But then seeing what the mri picks up lob in a feild and ignore for a while.

If I hadn't of sent one of mine in I would have had a dead horse due to a huge keratoma in his hoof.

 

[Flame_]

With my history with horses and lameness I always investigate to a point. Tell vet this is my l limit money wise, an dgo from there.

I definitely think its worth the mri, and a chat with the ortho guy. But then seeing what the mri picks up lob in a feild and ignore for a while.

If I hadn't of sent one of mine in I would have had a dead horse due to a huge keratoma in his hoof.

Keratoma is one of the few things they can address at these places that has a good prognosis with treatment, it should also be diagnosable by x-ray. IMO most of the complicated to diagnose stuff is as, or more, likely to improve with rest then conditioning than anything else.

OP. Could you turn him out in a small pen for a couple of weeks so the movement is really restricted than gradually increase the area? I'd do that then start conditioning next year.

 

[Michen]

Thanks guys. I really don’t know what to do. It’s become more confusing now he’s not blocked to the fetlock again (mostly).

My vet had to go to a colic yesterday but I could do a few more blocks.. and rule out whether it’s hoof I guess?

Seems unlikely to be hoof though though I think. But if it was keratoma/pedal bone fracture we’d need to know about it. That said- he’d need surgery for the former- at my expense. Am unsure whether I want to be chucking several thousand at this horse.

My vet still thinks a likely culprit is something soft tissuey around fetlock area that we couldn’t see on scan.

I guess I could just do some serious guesswork and do a box rest/walking rehab to cover all basis then Chuck in field.

 

[Michen]

Keratoma is one of the few things they can address at these places that has a good prognosis with treatment, it should also be diagnosable by x-ray. IMO most of the complicated to diagnose stuff is as, or more, likely to improve with rest then conditioning than anything else.

OP. Could you turn him out in a small pen for a couple of weeks so the movement is really restricted than gradually increase the area? I'd do that then start conditioning next year.

The keratomas I’ve known of needed and MRI to be found.

I wouldn’t want to just blindly restrict his movement like that. AFAIK soft tissue injuries do best with controlled walking to ensure the structures heel well. I’d sooner just shove him in a field if not doing that as I think there’s less chance of them going bonkers.