Should hunting with hounds be banned?(poll)

[The Fuzzy Furry]

What you're describing is illegal and should be stopped. They are not allowed to start as a group on a time trial.

There are frequent time trials on the A roads around here and I've never in over 30 years seen what you have described.

I have, though, been out with drag hunts that trashed verges parking, blocked roads parking, left horse shit all over urban roads outside people's homes, trashed bridleways, went on land where the land owner said not to, held up traffic for long periods, had hounds run into roads and be hit, killed sheep, caused horses in fields we passed to get into a dangerous frenzy, upset dog walkers ....

And I do question whether we are now simply too over populated for such antisocial behaviour.

Obviously then, our regions differ greatly in observed entitlement from 'sporting' people.
I too comment from 1st hand regular experience over many years.

 

[SEL]

I'm ok with drag hunting and the blood hounds. Theoretically I'm ok with trail hunting too but there's too many reports of hounds off trail for me to believe hunts are consistently following the law. I've seen hounds go after foxes that have broken cover.

On private land I am pretty ambivalent about what hunts get up to but where they cross public land / roads / bridlepaths then I think there should be a code of conduct and I think at the bare minimum that includes contacting residents and repairing damage - including damage to public bridlepaths.

One of the posters above pointed out this is the Horse and HOUND forum. I think that publication in its current form is on borrowed time unless they and hunt supporters sort out their sport so all packs operate within the law and with courtesy to the public.

 

[SEL]

Time trials around here are a nightmare. I raised two complaints with High Wycombe cycling club about dangerous behaviour on the road in 2022 and was totally ignored. Racing by another name.

 

[I'm Dun]

It doesn't sound like the same incident- on the video I'm thinking of, the rider was undertaken by more than one cyclist, and there were also other cyclists passing a (distressed) horse far too close on the other side (which may not be illegal but was certainly inconsiderate. I'll see if I can find it, although it's perhaps not super relevant to the thread.

I know the one you mean and it looked terrifying for the poor girl caught up in it.

 

[Clodagh]

They are pretending to trail hunt at the moment but actually hunting fox. If all hunting is banned they can't do this any more, simply being out with a pack of bhounds managed from horseback would be illegal.
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The original ban (as you know) was worded very ambiguously. Equally, legally, how easy would it be to draw up legislation that stipulated which breed of dog is or isn’t allowed to be worked in multiples?

 

[Sandstone1]

Do you mean all hunting with dogs? And is this specific to foxes? I have working bred whippets, I dont work mine but they have relations who do an excellent job of pest control. My youngest does regularly pick off squirrels and rabbits though.Same with terriers and ratting. I dont think theres anything better for a big rural rat infestation, than a pack of ratters.

For what its worth fox hunting, aka trail hunting cant carry on. They have been absolute idiots about it and brought this upon themselves. I dont think theres any way at all it can be salvaged now.

Blood hounding is a totally different beast and I cant see any reason why that cant continue.

I am specifically thinking of hunting with packs of hounds. I do understand that some dogs are used for pest control. Ie rats, squirrel etc but for the purposes of this poll I'm talking about organised packs of hounds

 

[Rowreach]

Organisers ban cyclist for life after horse is hit at Windsor Triathlon

Two cyclists have been banned from Human Race events following an incident at Royal Windsor Triathlon last month when a horse and rider were hit. In a viral video released on Facebook, horse rider Jennifer Katherine revealed footage from her helmet camera which showed cyclists pass on both...

www.maidenhead-advertiser.co.uk

 

[Fred66]

They are pretending to trail hunt at the moment but actually hunting fox. If all hunting is banned they can't do this any more, simply being out with a pack of bhounds managed from horseback would be illegal.
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The law would be a nightmare and the consequences of trying to write the law could be catastrophic for your average pet owner.

If foot followers adopt 2 hounds each, kennel them and pay kennel fees for them and then exercise them on private land whereby other like minded people do the same prosecution could be even more problematic than it is now.

Banning exercising dogs off the lead even on private property would have quite significant consequences to the general public even if unintended.

 

[Fred66]

I am specifically thinking of hunting with packs of hounds. I do understand that some dogs are used for pest control. Ie rats, squirrel etc but for the purposes of this poll I'm talking about organised packs of hounds

Its illegal to use dogs for ratting or hares, albeit mice and rabbits are ok, squirrels are ok too.

 

[Sandstone1]

Its illegal to use dogs for ratting or hares, albeit mice and rabbits are ok, squirrels are ok too.

Well hunting fox with hounds is illegal but it's happening...As I said the poll is for organised packs of hounds. I'm just interested in what people think.

 

[Wishfilly]

The law would be a nightmare and the consequences of trying to write the law could be catastrophic for your average pet owner.

If foot followers adopt 2 hounds each, kennel them and pay kennel fees for them and then exercise them on private land whereby other like minded people do the same prosecution could be even more problematic than it is now.

Banning exercising dogs off the lead even on private property would have quite significant consequences to the general public even if unintended.

If the goal was to ban everything including bloodhounds, I actually think it would be very easy to write a law which stated that a large group of riders (obviously you'd have to put a number on it, but let's say 5+) can't ride out with a large group of dogs (again, let's say 5 for ease)- how many ordinary pet owners ride out in this way? You could add something in there about following a scent if people thought it was necessary, but I think it could be easily made about the number of riders and dogs together, rather than ownership.

 

[Fred66]

If the goal was to ban everything including bloodhounds, I actually think it would be very easy to write a law which stated that a large group of riders (obviously you'd have to put a number on it, but let's say 5+) can't ride out with a large group of dogs (again, let's say 5 for ease)- how many ordinary pet owners ride out in this way? You could add something in there about following a scent if people thought it was necessary, but I think it could be easily made about the number of riders and dogs together, rather than ownership.

You didn’t read what I wrote, foot followers

 

[ycbm]

So if you are exercising your dogs and a fun ride is in the area you are breaking the law ?

You're getting desperate here Fred.
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[Old school]

Delighted hunting is legit in our jurisdiction. 300 in lamb ewes and free range poultry operation. They are a vermin, first hand experience. A few excitable TB horses for a bit when hunt is about. But definitely not to the extent of it being for ‘days’ as other unfortunate posters seem to experience. Adding a goat to the yard was a far more upsetting experience for the horses.

 

[Wishfilly]

So if you are exercising your dogs and a fun ride is in the area you are breaking the law ?

If you're on horse back, with 5+ dogs and you start riding along with a fun ride, then I'd suggest that's an absolutely terrible idea to be honest...

 

[Wishfilly]

Delighted hunting is legit in our jurisdiction. 300 in lamb ewes and free range poultry operation. They are a vermin, first hand experience. A few excitable TB horses for a bit when hunt is about. But definitely not to the extent of it being for ‘days’ as other unfortunate posters seem to experience. Adding a goat to the yard was a far more upsetting experience for the horses.

Police investigate hunting allegations after sheep dies in south Northants fox hounds incident

Police are investigating alleged ‘illegal hunting’ after a sheep drowned when foxhounds ran amok through a field at Moreton Pinkney.

www.banburyguardian.co.uk

How would you feel if this were your sheep?

There are other ways to control foxes.

 

[Rowreach]

Its illegal to use dogs for ratting or hares, albeit mice and rabbits are ok, squirrels are ok too.

Wrong. Perfectly legal to control rats with dogs under current legislation.

 

[Clodagh]

Its illegal to use dogs for ratting or hares, albeit mice and rabbits are ok, squirrels are ok too.

Is it? There’s many packs of terriers hunting rats on you tube (and great viewing it is, too). I think you are wrong there.

 

[ycbm]

Delighted hunting is legit in our jurisdiction. 300 in lamb ewes and free range poultry operation. They are a vermin, first hand experience. A few excitable TB horses for a bit when hunt is about. But definitely not to the extent of it being for ‘days’ as other unfortunate posters seem to experience. Adding a goat to the yard was a far more upsetting experience for the horses.

Why can't you shoot them? What do you do in late spring when you have lambs and no hunting? In summer when you have hens and no hunting?

Interestingly, it's been reported by the hunt lobby that there are now fewer foxes in areas where there is no hunting. Make of that what you will but it sounds like good news from your point of view.
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[nikicb]

Why can't you shoot them? What do you do in late spring when you have lambs and no hunting? In summer when you have hens and no hunting?

Interestingly, it's been reported by the hunt lobby that there are now fewer foxes in areas where there is no hunting. Make of that what you will but it sounds like good news from your point of view.
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Kind of linked to this I guess..... we live in West Berkshire in a small hamlet. We are surrounded by estate land. All I can see from our house is fields, the odd bit of woodland, less than ten houses and a new vineyard on the opposite side of the valley. Now, they do shoot pheasants in the neighbourhood, so I am not sure how much fox culling goes on, but..... in the 14 years we have lived here, I could count the number of foxes I have seen within 1/2 a mile of our house on one hand. I saw more when I stayed in London (Canning Town for LIHS) for three nights last December. They were scavenging bins etc., but looked pretty healthy. I do think they are becoming more urbanised.

 

[Fred66]

Is it? There’s many packs of terriers hunting rats on you tube (and great viewing it is, too). I think you are wrong there.

You are correct, I have just reread the section of law, I think there was talk of making it illegal but it is exempt.

 

[Fred66]

You're getting desperate here Fred.
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No I am pointing out that the law would be both difficult to write and difficult to enforce.
If I am out walking two dogs off the lead on private property where I have permission and someone else is doing the same then how can you make the presence of others on horseback unconnected to me or them an offence ?
I am not saying this would happen I am just pointing out that trying to write that law could have unintended consequences.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Our local drag hunt is nothing like hunting with the local foxhounds. The drag has their runner who is dragging scent in full view, the field and masters are fast & furious absolutely no chance they are fix hunting.

Quite and drag hounds rarely leave the sent trail(well they didn't when I went) they go over set course and jumps where as fox jump anything in their path, wire debris etc where horses get injured.

 

[Sandstone1]

I think the results so far are very interesting. Given that this is a forum of riders, country people , landowners and horse owners etc. I know it will never happen but what do you think the results would be if there were ever a National vote?

 

[moosea]

No I am pointing out that the law would be both difficult to write and difficult to enforce.
If I am out walking two dogs off the lead on private property where I have permission and someone else is doing the same then how can you make the presence of others on horseback unconnected to me or them an offence ?
I am not saying this would happen I am just pointing out that trying to write that law could have unintended consequences.

Wouldn't it just be a case of

All kennels to be licenced and registered with their local authority.

All dogs who stay more then 12 weeks and who are excersied off lead in open areas to have microchip and ear tattoo.

Exersicing more than 4 dogs from one kennel off lead to be outlawed.
Exersicing 5 or more dogs off lead in an open area to be illegal

That sort of thing would do it? Would prevent numpties from walking 8cdogs off lead in the local park and licensing of kennels would raise revenue

 

[minesadouble]

I think the results so far are very interesting. Given that this is a forum of riders, country people , landowners and horse owners etc. I know it will never happen but what do you think the results would be if there were ever a National vote?

The horse owning demographic has changed hugely in recent years.
I've owned horses/ridden for over 50 years, was brought up on a farm with a mum who bred horses, and we now have a large livery yard, I also used to run a large local show so I have seen this at first hand.

The majority of owners are no longer Country people, they keep their horses like overgrown pets and I may sound harsh, but, compared to 40 or even 15 years ago the level of knowledge of the average horse owner is pitiful.
Sad, but I assure you it's true!

 

[ycbm]

The horse owning demographic has changed hugely in recent years.
I've owned horses/ridden for over 50 years, was brought up on a farm with a mum who bred horses, and we now have a large livery yard, I also used to run a large local show so I have seen this at first hand.

The majority of owners are no longer Country people, they keep their horses like overgrown pets and I may sound harsh, but, compared to 40 or even 15 years ago the level of knowledge of the average horse owner is pitiful.
Sad, but I assure you it's true!

Are you suggesting that lack of knowledge about keeping horses means that people can't make reasonable judgements about fox hunting?

Because if you are, I know an awful lot of old horse people and country folk who disagree with fox hunting.
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[Clodagh]

Wouldn't it just be a case of

All kennels to be licenced and registered with their local authority.

All dogs who stay more then 12 weeks and who are excersied off lead in open areas to have microchip and ear tattoo.

Exersicing more than 4 dogs from one kennel off lead to be outlawed.
Exersicing 5 or more dogs off lead in an open area to be illegal

That sort of thing would do it? Would prevent numpties from walking 8cdogs off lead in the local park and licensing of kennels would raise revenue

I’d be stuck then!

 

[ycbm]

No I am pointing out that the law would be both difficult to write and difficult to enforce.
If I am out walking two dogs off the lead on private property where I have permission and someone else is doing the same then how can you make the presence of others on horseback unconnected to me or them an offence ?
I am not saying this would happen I am just pointing out that trying to write that law could have unintended consequences.

I don't think it would be at all difficult to write a law that would immediately stop mounted followers and all the antisocial behaviour that goes with them, and probably shut down most hunts through lack of revenue from mounted subscribers.

Foot packs of course are already illegal and yes they will be more difficult to stop. But easier if everyone is aware that 20 years on it's still happening and very much illegal and the police stop colluding to allow it.
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[minesadouble]

Are you suggesting that lack of knowledge about keeping horses means that people can't make reasonable judgements about fox hunting?

Because if you are, I know an awful lot of old horse people and country folk who disagree with fix hunting.
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As soon as I finished typing I realised that's how it looked!
My point was that Sandstone's description of the horse owning demographic is no longer 'landowners and Country folk' but more made up of urban dwellers who have not had what was once considered a 'traditional' horsey background.
I'm not suggesting that their opinion is not valid or that people who have had such a background are bound to support hunting, merely that the whole horse owners being 'land owning country folk' is now very far from the reality.