Should there be a weight limit for people at shows (and if so, what and how?!)

[Wonderling]

Jockeys, boxers and other athletes are weighed prior to competition, so riders and horses after arriving take horse and gear to be weighed - its simple to enforce, without having to put judges in the sensitive position of declaring someone unsuitable by looks alone, as they could be very wrong.

Competitions etc exalt an average leisure rider into the sphere of the professional equine industry. If you want to compete at that level you take riding seriously anyway, and rules are already to be adhered to, and a weight rider/horse % ruling would be another rule, that ultimately forces the industry and participants to take horse/rider welfare seriously. It would exalt the industry in the eyes of jo public who just see slobbering gags and spurs and thinks all horse riding is cruel.

Enforcing horse/rider weight % in the leisure sector of private owned horses would be very difficult. If it was made law for all riders of equines to be 15%, say, i can see a very busy future of RSPCA inspectors with weighing equipment answering troves of calls.

The competing wing of the equine industry sets the ruling - and can enforce it with ‘weigh-ins’ - the leisure industry is ‘advised’ a preferred %.

All of this can only be off the back of rigorous scientific studies proving that there is a definite % of weight carrying that a horse can comfortably carry, to know % thresholds.
There’s already many studies, and these should be re-done, updated with wider parameters of taking readings from the horses. A vast indepth study of all types and breeds is well worth doing to get this serious issue addressed. Then use the results as a ’gold standard’ enforceable within the industry, starting within the professional competing circles.

Its a shame the study never came through as it should have from Sue Dyson, i imagine she was trying (maybe too hard) to get some kind of guideline in place.

I hope it does end up happening somehow, 30 years ago this definitely was not an issue I ever saw, nowadays its common place, who knows how this will end up with no line drawn for fear of too many 'factors'.

 

[Hallo2012]

Jockeys, boxers and other athletes are weighed prior to competition, so riders and horses after arriving take horse and gear to be weighed - its simple to enforce, without having to put judges in the sensitive position of declaring someone unsuitable by looks alone, as they could be very wrong.

Competitions etc exalt an average leisure rider into the sphere of the professional equine industry. If you want to compete at that level you take riding seriously anyway, and rules are already to be adhered to, and a weight rider/horse % ruling would be another rule, that ultimately forces the industry and participants to take horse/rider welfare seriously. It would exalt the industry in the eyes of jo public who just see slobbering gags and spurs and thinks all horse riding is cruel.

Enforcing horse/rider weight % in the leisure sector of private owned horses would be very difficult. If it was made law for all riders of equines to be 15%, say, i can see a very busy future of RSPCA inspectors with weighing equipment answering troves of calls.

The competing wing of the equine industry sets the ruling - and can enforce it with ‘weigh-ins’ - the leisure industry is ‘advised’ a preferred %.

All of this can only be off the back of rigorous scientific studies proving that there is a definite % of weight carrying that a horse can comfortably carry, to know % thresholds.
There’s already many studies, and these should be re-done, updated with wider parameters of taking readings from the horses. A vast indepth study of all types and breeds is well worth doing to get this serious issue addressed. Then use the results as a ’gold standard’ enforceable within the industry, starting within the professional competing circles.

as much as i agree with the idea i just don't think its viable for the average competition centre to have horse and rider scales, and imagine all the horses that wont stand on the scales (mine inc probably) and the stress of the queue (in bad weather), with all the people that cant keep their horses away from other horses, or the kickers, etc etc........i cant see it happening.

the elite team riders have regular sessions with physio and nutritionist so weight is probably recorded at those sessions?

 

[PapaverFollis]

You could do random spot checks based on a random number generator or similar rather than "that person looks big". So you check 10% of competitors. (I suppose judges and officials could contrive to have anyone they have particular concerns about "randomly" selected.)

A generous limit does not need to be based on particularly rigorous science in my view. You'd probably need more supporting data for enforcing 15% but 20% would require less justification?

The rules could also be designed to enforce horses being a healthy weight in some way... condition scoring the horse at the same time? Rather than allowing people to create a higher weight limit for themselves by feeding the horse cattle cake... ?

 

[Smitty]

You’ll likely end up with fatter horses though.

Im also unaware of any studies that most scientists would consider even a little bit rigorous

How about having a max weight for each height, 12.2 6st, 13.2 7st etc

This is just an example !!

I think if someone is too heavy to ride their particular horse, they should be told, however hurt their sensibilities may be. If they have any feelings for the horse at all, they will accept the judgement. Poor horse has no say at all ...

 

[RachelFerd]

Jockeys, boxers and other athletes are weighed prior to competition, so riders and horses after arriving take horse and gear to be weighed - its simple to enforce, without having to put judges in the sensitive position of declaring someone unsuitable by looks alone, as they could be very wrong.

Competitions etc exalt an average leisure rider into the sphere of the professional equine industry. If you want to compete at that level you take riding seriously anyway, and rules are already to be adhered to, and a weight rider/horse % ruling would be another rule, that ultimately forces the industry and participants to take horse/rider welfare seriously. It would exalt the industry in the eyes of jo public who just see slobbering gags and spurs and thinks all horse riding is cruel.

Enforcing horse/rider weight % in the leisure sector of private owned horses would be very difficult. If it was made law for all riders of equines to be 15%, say, i can see a very busy future of RSPCA inspectors with weighing equipment answering troves of calls.

The competing wing of the equine industry sets the ruling - and can enforce it with ‘weigh-ins’ - the leisure industry is ‘advised’ a preferred %.

All of this can only be off the back of rigorous scientific studies proving that there is a definite % of weight carrying that a horse can comfortably carry, to know % thresholds.
There’s already many studies, and these should be re-done, updated with wider parameters of taking readings from the horses. A vast indepth study of all types and breeds is well worth doing to get this serious issue addressed. Then use the results as a ’gold standard’ enforceable within the industry, starting within the professional competing circles.

I'd prefer a 'license to compete' system, where at the start of each season you've essentially had sign off from a vet that horses are fit and healthy to compete and the horse/rider partnership is appropriate. Professional riders could have dispensation via qualifications, but each horse should/could still have veterinary agreement to compete. I think it could be a useful way to tick a lot of social license and basic welfare boxes in one go. No need to mess around at every single event.

And yes, this would put off the very casual competitor - but we all have vaccination visits from the vet - so why not extend that into a 'fit to compete' note?

 

[PurBee]

You’ll likely end up with fatter horses though.

Im also unaware of any studies that most scientists would consider even a little bit rigorous

Yep, where’s theres human will, theyll find a way!

The rigorous studies need to be done, to make this enforceable - current studies done, the study pool of horses is far too small to set a legal limit based on that data already collated. All they currently do is offer us a rough guide, based on their small study groups.

 

[PurBee]

as much as i agree with the idea i just don't think its viable for the average competition centre to have horse and rider scales, and imagine all the horses that wont stand on the scales (mine inc probably) and the stress of the queue (in bad weather), with all the people that cant keep their horses away from other horses, or the kickers, etc etc........i cant see it happening.

the elite team riders have regular sessions with physio and nutritionist so weight is probably recorded at those sessions?

Yeah, the difficult practicalities would be multifold, and would involve designing a stream-lined system like weighing horses on a pad thats flush with the ground outside, rather than in a scary building. Having 1 horse/rider at a time walk along and stand for 10 seconds to record weight. For this to be a booked weighing rather than a huge queue etc.

If all is willing to train horses to do the most remarkable things, and organisers are willing to put in X time and money to host and perpetuate professional equine sports - is it really too unrealistic to factor-in time/money for weigh-ins?
Is everyone too busy and their horses so untrained that they cant stand for 10 seconds on a pad and be weighed?

 

[PurBee]

I'd prefer a 'license to compete' system, where at the start of each season you've essentially had sign off from a vet that horses are fit and healthy to compete and the horse/rider partnership is appropriate. Professional riders could have dispensation via qualifications, but each horse should/could still have veterinary agreement to compete. I think it could be a useful way to tick a lot of social license and basic welfare boxes in one go. No need to mess around at every single event.

And yes, this would put off the very casual competitor - but we all have vaccination visits from the vet - so why not extend that into a 'fit to compete' note?

Thats a brilliant idea - would totally negate having to do all the weighing faff at each show.

 

[Kat]

I'd prefer a 'license to compete' system, where at the start of each season you've essentially had sign off from a vet that horses are fit and healthy to compete and the horse/rider partnership is appropriate. Professional riders could have dispensation via qualifications, but each horse should/could still have veterinary agreement to compete. I think it could be a useful way to tick a lot of social license and basic welfare boxes in one go. No need to mess around at every single event.

And yes, this would put off the very casual competitor - but we all have vaccination visits from the vet - so why not extend that into a 'fit to compete' note?

A person can put a lot of weight on in a year.


Also do we trust vets to give a safe view on appropriate combinations? There's a vet who I have seen out competing who is far to heavy for their horse. While their Facebook profile picture showed them looking significantly too big for their horse they also had an article shared on their practice website about rider weight ?‍

Are these vets going to weigh riders and tack or trust reported weights or just judge it all on looks?

 

[Morgan123]

Great discussion. The way it works at the moment with the few shows that do this is: there is an attending vet with a horse weigh scales and a person weigh scales. If someone is too big (for example, an adult riding in a child's pony) they are asked to dismount, or if they prefer they can be weighed, to ensure they are within a 20% limit. The vet would take into account the condition of the horse - e.g if the horse is v overweight then that is accounted for.

Just to clarify - this isn't about overweight people, it's about anyone who is too big for the horse they're riding - this could include a perfectly healthy weight teenager riding a shetland, for example (as is quite common), or an average adult on a sec B pony. It's just about being "suitably mounted" within that 20% rule, which is the best thing we have so far.

Obviously, the current system isn't ideal because people feel singled out and it's VERY awkward for everyone involved, and it also means a vet being present (though to be fair, plenty of sports manage this very well within costs - e.g. endurance, every horse has at least two vet checks, and that's the cheapest sport around if you go by entry fee costs). Amazingly the current system doesn't put people off from infringing on the 20% rule at all, so it's not a deterrant. A lot of people are saying that peoples' vets and instructors should be telling them, but those people all are going to feel just as awkward mentioning it as any of us would! It's certainly not an easy topic to broach, nobody wants to upset anyone else and I'm sure we all feel like we're doing right for our own horses because X, Y, Z....

I really like idea of the person who said about random spot checks, that's a great idea.

 

[ester]

I've always found it interesting that it's so prevalent in showing- obviously partly because the smaller native ponies do seem to go better/fancier with a small pro on top. But it is also the one discipline where it might be easier to include suitability of combo/overall impression to be included as part of the criteria.

 

[palo1]

Great discussion. The way it works at the moment with the few shows that do this is: there is an attending vet with a horse weigh scales and a person weigh scales. If someone is too big (for example, an adult riding in a child's pony) they are asked to dismount, or if they prefer they can be weighed, to ensure they are within a 20% limit. The vet would take into account the condition of the horse - e.g if the horse is v overweight then that is accounted for.

Just to clarify - this isn't about overweight people, it's about anyone who is too big for the horse they're riding - this could include a perfectly healthy weight teenage child riding a shetland, for example. It's just about being "suitably mounted" within that 20% rule, which is the best thing we have so far.

Obviously, the current system isn't ideal because people feel singled out and it's VERY awkward for everyone involved, and it also means a vet being present (though to be fair, plenty of sports manage this very well within costs - e.g. endurance, every horse has at least two vet checks, and that's the cheapest sport around if you go by entry fee costs). Amazingly the current rule doesn't put people off from infringing on the 20% rule at all, so it's not a deterrant. A lot of people are saying that peoples' vets and instructors should be telling them, but those people all are going to feel just as awkward mentioning it as any of us would! It's certainly not an easy topic to broach, nobody wants to upset anyone else and I'm sure we all feel like we're doing right for our own horses because X, Y, Z....

I really like idea of the person who said about random spot checks, that's a great idea.

It would certainly be easy to ensure rider-horse compatibility in terms of weight at endurance events and I like the idea of a licence to complete which is signed off annually. There would of course be issues with that - riders can gain weight etc but if there were concerns the competing body could ask for evidence of weight within the limits specified within say 30 days. I can see an issue for some competition bodies though as people for whom it was an issue would perhaps not apply for their licence to compete so would reduce funding for those bodies and it would make any competing even more expensive so not so inclusive for riders either. But as a measure for equine welfare I think it would at least open the discussion and bring into the public and the equestrian view that weight is a welfare issue which is at least starting to be addressed. It may be preaching to the choir somewhat but it would be a starting point.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

How about having a max weight for each height, 12.2 6st, 13.2 7st etc

This is just an example !!
.

Following on, if 14 hh was then 8 stone (50kg), I'd be stuffed then on 14hh ? lean fit pedigree native at 460kg and me currently at 13.2% with tack!

 

[AmyMay]

So are we accusing world class male riders in all disciplines of animal abuse now then? Genuine question??

I never said don’t address it, however more thought needs to go into it other than setting weights etc. more factors come into it than just weight

Interstingly, these world class male riders make every effort to keep their weights to a minimum for the very reasons being discussed here. Horse welfare and the ability of that horse to perform at its optimum level.

And yes, unfortunately for those who are easily offended, it is quite easy to judge from someone’s appearance whether they’re too heavy to be on a particular horse/pony. That’s not fat shaming, just common sense.

 

[AmyMay]

Look up Blog of a cob on Instagram ( I hadn't seen it before it was mentioned on this thread and I was horrified), this is what people are referring to when they talk about hanging over the saddle! I'm no expert but this one looks nearer 20st than 10.

Thump, thump, thump.

 

[Upthecreek]

I think providing horse and rider weight to enter and having spot checks of a certain percentage of competitors would be a good starting point. Now what about riders and horses who don’t compete?

 

[palo1]

I think providing horse and rider weight to enter and having spot checks of a certain percentage of competitors would be a good starting point. Now what about riders and horses who don’t compete?

I think having a standard at competitive events would help the message to filter down tbh and it may make it easier for vets, saddle fitters etc to raise the issue of rider weight in a more normalised kind of discussion. Potentially, non competitive combinations may not be doing the same level of work but that isn't always the case. I suspect that once competing bodies used any form of official calculation, Riding Clubs etc would follow suit and it would become just more part of the everyday conversation about equine welfare and riding which most people really do care about. It is a difficult issue for some people but not talking about it or addressing it anywhere won't help I don' t think. I do think that it being a formal part of competing would be a good start.

 

[ecb89]

If you feel strongly about overweight riders who are influencers please let their sponsors and companies they work with know.

 

[eahotson]

Our very last photo of my darling Bailey minutes before she was pts in June 2021. I stopped riding her 6 months before. She was 710KG and a big boned 17.1hh M/W and easily took my weight. Agree if I'd been schooling or jumping I would have been to heavy. We stopped jumping Oct 2016 and schooling June 2018, i then started putting on weight so we just hacked, our last hacks were 20 mins once or twice a week. I have a video of her on one of these hacks striding out, ears pricked forward. She never struggled carrying me. Or if she did it never showed and hand on heart I've never had anyone ever say i was too heavy for her and trust me there were enough people that would have if they felt i was.

I realise I am probably opening myself open to criticism by showing my photo but I want to share for those that have been upset by this thread.
View attachment 96398

lovely photo.I hope you have many happy memories.

 

[marmalade76]

How about having a max weight for each height, 12.2 6st, 13.2 7st etc

This is just an example !!
.

That wouldn't wouldn't work at all, there's plenty of cobs & natives of 13.2 that can comfortably carry a good bit more than 7st and plenty of taller TBs that couldn't carry more than a chunky 14.2 could.

 

[TPO]

Thump, thump, thump.

I hadn't seen her before. That page and Ray the goth make me so sad for the horses ?

The irony of RTG's instructor shouting bounce through the bounce as she banged about on the poor fat horse's back.

How have these people got 24k followers each??? No wonder there's such a skewed perception of what's acceptable

 

[Peglo]

I was at camp at the weekend and they had the weigh bridge for the horses . I weighed Tali and then asked if I could come back with my hat and tack so I could find out how much she was carrying. They said absolutely but was shocked I’d want to. I’m delighted I’m at 14.6% so just under the 15% mark but no one else wanted to find out their percentage. Not even the thin people. Maybe me doing it might make people have a think about it, you never know. Being close to the 15% mark made me get in the gym yesterday though when I was shattered and would’ve happily sat on the sofa.

 

[PurBee]

I think having a standard at competitive events would help the message to filter down tbh and it may make it easier for vets, saddle fitters etc to raise the issue of rider weight in a more normalised kind of discussion. Potentially, non competitive combinations may not be doing the same level of work but that isn't always the case. I suspect that once competing bodies used any form of official calculation, Riding Clubs etc would follow suit and it would become just more part of the everyday conversation about equine welfare and riding which most people really do care about. It is a difficult issue for some people but not talking about it or addressing it anywhere won't help I don' t think. I do think that it being a formal part of competing would be a good start.

There was s thread on here a few months back by a trainer who was asking how to discuss rider weight with the owner of the horse she was training, they felt it warranted it for the horses welfare. She wasn’t talking just a few kg’s overweight. She felt inclined to just cancel working with her client, rather than discuss it, for fear of being taken the wrong way.

So i think youre right, if it becomes backed by up to date scientific knowledge, all riders of all weights know what horse weight they can ride, and know our own personal limits. If enforced in comps, the knowledge would become more mainstream, and the professionals in the leisure industry would be in a more comfortable position, being supported by current knowledge and professional equine regulations, to broach the subject with leisure horse clients.

 

[muddybay]

A lot of the overweight riders on Instagram also have massively overweight horses as well which is even worse for the poor horses!

 

[Dave's Mam]

I'm not quite sure how to put this, but where is the difference between perception of weight / so called "Fat Shaming" / getting offended separated from WELFARE?
Everyone jumps up & down about tight nosebands & rubbish bitting etc, but where do you draw the line between an attack on you & the welfare of the horse that you're sitting on?

Disclaimer the "You" means everyone. & I calculated mine & I'm 13%.

 

[shortstuff99]

I've calculated mine and I'm 10% on the big potato and my big cob and 12.5% on the Baby Spanish. That is at their fit weight, which they all are currently.

 

[fetlock]

Great discussion. The way it works at the moment with the few shows that do this is: there is an attending vet with a horse weigh scales and a person weigh scales. If someone is too big (for example, an adult riding in a child's pony) they are asked to dismount, or if they prefer they can be weighed, to ensure they are within a 20% limit. The vet would take into account the condition of the horse - e.g if the horse is v overweight then that is accounted for.

Just to clarify - this isn't about overweight people, it's about anyone who is too big for the horse they're riding - this could include a perfectly healthy weight teenager riding a shetland, for example (as is quite common), or an average adult on a sec B pony. It's just about being "suitably mounted" within that 20% rule, which is the best thing we have so far.

Obviously, the current system isn't ideal because people feel singled out and it's VERY awkward for everyone involved, and it also means a vet being present (though to be fair, plenty of sports manage this very well within costs - e.g. endurance, every horse has at least two vet checks, and that's the cheapest sport around if you go by entry fee costs). Amazingly the current system doesn't put people off from infringing on the 20% rule at all, so it's not a deterrant. A lot of people are saying that peoples' vets and instructors should be telling them, but those people all are going to feel just as awkward mentioning it as any of us would! It's certainly not an easy topic to broach, nobody wants to upset anyone else and I'm sure we all feel like we're doing right for our own horses because X, Y, Z....

I really like idea of the person who said about random spot checks, that's a great idea.

I can't offer an alternative solution off the top of my head tonight but would absolutely be dead set against children or teens having to be weighed on a showground. I'm not keen tbh on anyone being weighed on a show field but where youngsters are concerned in particular, no way.

 

[Dave's Mam]

Child or adult should not be too heavy for the pony. That is it. Full stop.

 

[Winters100]

I can't offer an alternative solution off the top of my head tonight but would absolutely be dead set against children or teens having to be weighed on a showground. I'm not keen tbh on anyone being weighed on a show field but where youngsters are concerned in particular, no way.

I get that it is not very nice, but I do not think that it would even be necessary to announce the weight to the competitor if they did not want to know, just to tell them whether they were inside the limit or not. It seems to me that we are in danger of ignoring physical pain to an animal for fear of hurting the feelings of people who choose to ride. For me this is not right. If you are super sensitive about the issue you can choose not compete, or better to choose a horse which is able to comfortably carry you, the horse has no choice. Parents of children and teens should be responsible in this regard, and should prepare their children for the fact that they may be weighed. If this is not acceptable they do not have to attend. We were weighed and measured at the start and end of every term at school, I do not really see the difference. For children's classes I would assume that it would be quite easy as there are already limits on age of child and size of pony - why not just state a weight limit and have each one weighed with tack when they register? Those who were sensitive could just check their weight at home and not attend if they were over.

Saying that someone is too heavy for a horse is absolutely not a comment upon them as a person, or upon their % of body fat. Maybe if those who are too heavy for their mounts were not able to compete more would choose suitable horses. I looked at the above mentioned 'Blog on a Cob' and I am shocked that this is seen by so many as acceptable. Perhaps it is time to inform brands which sponsor riders who are obviously too heavy for their mounts of the negative press which this gives them. This is simply cruelty, and I do not really see a difference between causing pain by making a horse carry someone who is too heavy (heavy, not fat), or causing pain by using a whip.

 

[palo1]

I get that it is not very nice, but I do not think that it would even be necessary to announce the weight to the competitor if they did not want to know, just to tell them whether they were inside the limit or not. It seems to me that we are in danger of ignoring physical pain to an animal for fear of hurting the feelings of people who choose to ride. For me this is not right. If you are super sensitive about the issue you can choose not compete, or better to choose a horse which is able to comfortably carry you, the horse has no choice. Parents of children and teens should be responsible in this regard, and should prepare their children for the fact that they may be weighed. If this is not acceptable they do not have to attend. We were weighed and measured at the start and end of every term at school, I do not really see the difference. For children's classes I would assume that it would be quite easy as there are already limits on age of child and size of pony - why not just state a weight limit and have each one weighed with tack when they register? Those who were sensitive could just check their weight at home and not attend if they were over.

Saying that someone is too heavy for a horse is absolutely not a comment upon them as a person, or upon their % of body fat. Maybe if those who are too heavy for their mounts were not able to compete more would choose suitable horses. I looked at the above mentioned 'Blog on a Cob' and I am shocked that this is seen by so many as acceptable. Perhaps it is time to inform brands which sponsor riders who are obviously too heavy for their mounts of the negative press which this gives them. This is simply cruelty, and I do not really see a difference between causing pain by making a horse carry someone who is too heavy (heavy, not fat), or causing pain by using a whip.

I think it is difficult to be 'definitive' just by looking at someone tbh though it seems likely that some of the riders discussed here; that post publicly on SM and identify themselves as influencers, are too heavy for their horses. If you went out to buy, for eg, a kayak or something else where the weight limits become a safety critical issue I wonder how that is dealt with by those that are not in the safe limit; perhaps that doesn't really happen. But for horses, the weight issue is a safety one and we do need to get that message out there. I wondered about contacting brands associatated with riders that appear overweight for their horses but without definitive data it just looks like fat shaming which I would not be prepared to do. At the same time, it is hugely discomforting to see riders that really seem far too big for their horses, gaining a following publicly. I think it is because ideas about and groups promoting body positivity perhaps haven't really engaged with equine welfare? Perhaps weight is not an 'allowed' discussion in body positivity groups - I don't know!!