Should there be a weight limit for people at shows (and if so, what and how?!)

[ester]

There are limits for games
'
A rider weighing over 54kg may not ride a pony 128cm or under.
▶
A rider weighing over 60kg may not ride a pony 133cm or under.
▶
A rider weighing over 66kg may not ride a pony 138cm or under.


Though weighing kids can be problematic, more so than just 'hurt feelings'.

 

[palo1]

There are limits for games
'
A rider weighing over 54kg may not ride a pony 128cm or under.
▶
A rider weighing over 60kg may not ride a pony 133cm or under.
▶
A rider weighing over 66kg may not ride a pony 138cm or under.


Though weighing kids can be problematic, more so than just 'hurt feelings'.

Yes, weighing young people is hugely problematic for lots of reasons - I really don't know how that could be done safely (other than some form of weighing and relating that directly to the horse/pony in question without figures being shared with the rider or publicly) and fairly but with adults it could be.

 

[windand rain]

The issue with young people being told they are too big for ponies is some will starve themselves to stop growing. Having a young friend that did that when she was younger as she adores ponies. The other issue is native ponies might only be 13hh but are built to carry more so a 13hh highland can carry much more than a 13hh show pony and everything in between so height of pony doesnt relate to the ponies weight anymore than the height of a child relates to the childs weight. Outgrowing ponies much loved ponies is always painful for children.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

If you want to ride the zip wire in Snowdonia they weigh you. They need to know how to tension the harness. There is no fuss made about it. Just a queue for weighing, a weight written in big black marker pen on your hand so that the people a the top strapping you in can clearly see it. As can everyone else of course! It's a safety critical issue so it just happens very matter of factly. Some people may self exclude if they don't want to be weighed. Others may find it uncomfortable but deal with it so they can ride on the zipline.

I think a 20% rule in competition can be treated the same way - it's a welfare rule, end of. A licence to compete is a good idea. Or spot checks. And the message would then filter down. Governing bodies need to set stadards and that would slowly change perceptions about what is and is not ok. Plus who would sponsor a rider who is not eligible to complete on welfare grounds?

 

[sbloom]

This is why we need research, to find out if there are step points where the increased weight actually is an issue. ETA I do agree traditional ponies are stronger. Sadly they seem to be being bred more and more like little horses.
.

Or not, Fells for example being bred small and round, and kept overweight more than ever before, in part I swear, because of the "cute hairy" thing.

I think weighing children is very problematic, I'm not sure how we solve this but as a professional I am crying out for some official guidance to help me navigate this. I have fitted for a LOT of borderline people, if I knew everyone was dealing with the same guidelines I could walk away knowing they were less likely to be fitted for a saddle by a cowboy.

 

[Cortez]

It's not about "safety ", it's about cruelty. Sorry, but eff "feelings" : if you are damaging, injuring or hurting horses you should plainly and obviously not be riding.

 

[Dexter]

It's not about "safety ", it's about cruelty. Sorry, but eff "feelings" : if you are damaging, injuring or hurting horses you should plainly and obviously not be riding.

Which is fine for adults, but not for children. Weighing children in public is as damaging to some as carrying extra weight is to horses. Potentially more so in vulnerable children.

 

[Cortez]

Which is fine for adults, but not for children. Weighing children in public is as damaging to some as carrying extra weight is to horses. Potentially more so in vulnerable children.

So, what? Let the pony suffer? Allow the kid to think it's OK to hurt an animal? Sorry, but that's never going to be right, ever.

 

[windand rain]

So what? Let the pony suffer? Allow the kid to think it's OK to hurt an animal? Sorry, but that's never going to be right, ever.

No it is never acceptable and some children are obese and overweight their ponies largely speaking are also obese or overweight. It is up to stewards to speak to parents and judges to put them down the line until people realise fat is not acceptable in any form. Pony club should also have a word with guardians as should riding schools etc. Home owned ponies then its up to yard managers to suck it up and tell not advise guardians at that point the only kids missed will be those who hack out and keep ponies at home. Until social media and competition are on board the ponies will continue to suffer Same with professionally produced show horses without a condition score of 3 or less on a 5 scale they should go straight to the bottom of the line no matter how lovely a ride or how cleanly they jump in workers this is the only way they will learn

 

[Roxylola]

I've followed this but not commented up to now. I agree that public weighing feels wrong especially for the young. However, nobody genuinely doesn't know they're overweight - probably even more so in the young.
Also, if that's the rule to compete then you know its coming, parents can step up and weigh their kids in advance and see that they simply will or will not be able to compete and take appropriate action. It's a bit different if it's just publicly sprung on the day but if it's part of the process it's expected.

 

[xTrooperx]

Hard one as we are all different shapes and sizes I am larger in size than most people I know who ride, yet I am lighter in weight. one friend is 14st yet beautiful shapely figure boobs and hips flat stomach so you would automatically assume they would be quite light. And certainly would not question weight after just seeing.

 

[Hallo2012]

I'd prefer a 'license to compete' system, where at the start of each season you've essentially had sign off from a vet that horses are fit and healthy to compete and the horse/rider partnership is appropriate. Professional riders could have dispensation via qualifications, but each horse should/could still have veterinary agreement to compete. I think it could be a useful way to tick a lot of social license and basic welfare boxes in one go. No need to mess around at every single event.

And yes, this would put off the very casual competitor - but we all have vaccination visits from the vet - so why not extend that into a 'fit to compete' note?

much better plan.

id be more than happy with that.

and yes people can gain weight, as can horses BUT i doubt anyone is going to purposely fluctuate down to 15/16% for Jan only to expand back up to 20%+ over each year, EVERY year so it would still work IMO

 

[Cortez]

Hard one as we are all different shapes and sizes I am larger in size than most people I know who ride, yet I am lighter in weight. one friend is 14st yet beautiful shapely figure boobs and hips flat stomach so you would automatically assume they would be quite light. And certainly would not question weight after just seeing

Weighing machines were invented precisely to solve this problem.

 

[FestiveG]

The stewards at most shows are volunteers, getting people to steward currently is tough going. If stewards are then going to be asked to challenge people regarding their weight ratio to their horses weight, there will be even fewer people willing to give up their time.

 

[Julia0803]

I think it’s a really interesting discussion, but agree with some other posters: stating what is fair for a horse to carry is not making negative judgments about a person who is above that weight in and of themselves. Just that in relation to that particular horse they are too heavy.

(I suppose I also have skin in this game as I’ve recently made a concerted effort to loose weight for my horse. I have an under active thyroid and found that my weight had really crept up without any changes to diet- a pretty sad state of affairs tbh! But the whys are irrelevant in terms of how it impacts my cob!)

I do however remember being quite surprised when looking at a local saddlers website. On their notes about fitting saddles they stated:

‘We apply the generally accepted rule of 10% body mass ratio to competition, and 15% for regular riding’

I had never previously heard 10% touted as ‘generally accepted’. Tho I suppose you could also question ‘competition’- are we talking about local unaffiliated prelim, or 3* eventing?!

I don’t know whether 10% is a reasonable figure, but it would undoubtedly limit the pool of horses a regular adult with a normal BMI could carry, as it would suggest that an average 450-500kg small horse/large native could only carry 7-7.5stone which i think is lighter than the majority of adults. I’m not making judgements that, if it’s not practical we should ignore it, more that if that was what was generally agreed most people would have to ‘size up’ as it were and there would be a large drop in demand for most averagely sized horses).

 

[Winters100]

Which is fine for adults, but not for children. Weighing children in public is as damaging to some as carrying extra weight is to horses. Potentially more so in vulnerable children.

But no one is suggesting weighing them in the middle of the showground and shouting out the results. And this is a voluntary activity, so if your child is too heavy for the pony you have the option to address this in advance. Amber's Echo gave a good example above, people who do not want to be weighed have the option not to compete. Let's put this in perspective, would you let someone who was too heavy for your horse ride them anyway just because a refusal might hurt their feelings? I certainly would not.

 

[Glitter's fun]

Tell a child from the beginning that "this is the pony you are riding just now but not for ever". You wouldn't expect a child to stay in the same school class for years in case they were damaged by moving up. No one is "too heavy" or "too fat", that's a matter between them & their doctor but there's surely a tactful way of telling a child they need to be promoted to a bigger pony now?

 

[Glitter's fun]

The stewards at most shows are volunteers, getting people to steward currently is tough going. If stewards are then going to be asked to challenge people regarding their weight ratio to their horses weight, there will be even fewer people willing to give up their time.

Just thinking aloud here but shows delegate first aid to St. John's Ambulance all the time. Would a welfare charity do the weigh-in for a donation?

 

[Glitter's fun]

Me again, one more then I'm done!

No one has mentioned the age of the horse. You can show ridden from 4yrs but a horses spine stops developing at 6.....

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Animal welfare will always trump feelings, in my book. If I'm too heavy for my horse this doesn't necessarily mean that I'm fat, per say, but it means that I either need to lose weight or find a different mount. Which I have no problem with.

I think there is a way to tactfully weigh competitors and children. It's also a valuable lesson for a child to learn that their health and their animals health is important, and that animal welfare comes first. It's ok for a kid to learn and know when the get too big for their pony.

This (while not the best way) might even spur some parents into minding their kids weight, health, and nutrition a bit more...just as parents of many other athletes in other sports do.

Competing horses isn't a right, and this isn't about how you look. It's about the animal. I'm sure if this were to be put in place, there would be all sorts of uproar over equestrian sports being "skinny people sports" and "shallow" but that's not the point. Again, weight is measured in many other sports that don't even involve an animal, involving an animal gives even more reason IMO.

I'm basically the human equivalent of a Shetland pony, but I'll figure myself out if I want to be light enough for a certain horse, and/or I'll have one appropriate for my weight.

 

[palo1]

Thei idea of an annual licence to compete could be helpful too in that if you know your annual licence is up for review you would have time to address weight or horse issues in advance which would totally remove tricky showground showdowns and the onus on stewards to call out concerning combinations. At just under 15% of my lightest horse's capacity I would hardly likely want to pile on the pounds at any point in the licenced year; it would be a great motivator in fact to maintain a steady healthy weight. I already weigh every day so for someone like me who has to work a bit to stay on the right side of the equation it could be really supportive. I would NOT want to be weighed in at a showground though it happens in endurance and racing so deffo could be done...

 

[ester]

Not sure why we appear to be stuck on feelings, it’s not feelings that are the problem.

 

[palo1]

Not sure why we appear to be stuck on feelings, it’s not feelings that are the problem.

Quite - it isn't about feelings or even whether people are overweight per se; it is about horses weight carrying abilities and their welfare. That is why I think it could be really do-able. For someone like me it would be genuinely clear and helpful too; I have a relatively small horse (lightweight arab x ) and I have always maintained a personal weight for him. To have that validated and clarified and to know that others were on the same page would be really positive. As someone who hasn't always felt positive about these things, the emphasis on welfare feels much, much healthier than any emphasis on looks or personal weight though that is important for individual health too. It would be genuinely good to know that at any competition, regardless of how people might 'look' that they had been licenced to compete - I think it would genuinely help in the 'feelings' department too Everyone would know they were on the side of a welfare decision; surely a good thing?!

 

[ester]

To clarify I meant it’s not about feelings because mental illness is also not about feelings and some people seemed to have skipped this bit in terms of weighing people and the only issue being ‘feelings’

 

[CanteringCarrot]

To clarify I meant it’s not about feelings because mental illness is also not about feelings and some people seemed to have skipped this bit in terms of weighing people and the only issue being ‘feelings’

I actually did think about that. The bottom line still stands though: you're either too heavy for your horse or you're not.

Your mental illness doesn't exclude you from animal welfare rules/laws/regs/practices.


That sounds really harsh, I know. I do know that weighing people could be really damaging and anxiety inducing amongst other things, but the yearly competition license could be a half way point with private weighing, but yes, you'd still need to be weighed, and a decision would then be made based off of your weight and your horses weight.

How do you think this should be addressed?

 

[ester]

Of course, it just needs to be included in the assessment of risk and not referred to as hurt feelings which is very dismissive

 

[palo1]

To clarify I meant it’s not about feelings because mental illness is also not about feelings and some people seemed to have skipped this bit in terms of weighing people and the only issue being ‘feelings’

Sorry - I really didn't get that from the post. Mental health is definitely not just about feelings. I don't know you how you could ensure that weight related decisions are also safe from a MH point of view but I think that having clear and unambiguous guidance would also be better for people's MH than the vague sense of what might be ok that we have now.

 

[Goldenstar]

The stewards at most shows are volunteers, getting people to steward currently is tough going. If stewards are then going to be asked to challenge people regarding their weight ratio to their horses weight, there will be even fewer people willing to give up their time.

I have to say I think this a big issue who would put themselves forward to do this and there’s little point of weighing people without knowing what the horses weight is and even worse should be .

 

[ester]

I’m genuinely not sure either but think that for some cohorts it would need some serious planning as to how to avoid unintended consequences and still maintain good welfare.

 

[Goldenstar]

Imagine a maxi cob class with me in charge take that ID away and bring him back 180 kilo lighter and then I will weigh you.
Probably not the best job for me.