Should there be a weight limit for people at shows (and if so, what and how?!)

[Upthecreek]

Sorry to quote facts again but people become overweight by consuming more calories than they burn off and that is a choice. That isn’t meant to be cruel or nasty, but that is the truth.

Lots of things we choose to do are detrimental to our health. Drinking alcohol is a choice, smoking is a choice and consuming more calories than we burn off is a choice. All of those choices have potential consequences for our health and wellbeing. But it’s when those choices are detrimental or harmful to others (people or animals) that we should be brutally honest with ourselves and really question those choices and whether it is ethical to continue to do activities which negatively impact others as a consequence.

My genetics dictate that I could very easily become overweight. The only reason I am not is because I am very careful to ensure that calories in don’t exceed calories out. It takes careful management, but it is possible. I don’t judge people who are overweight, I just think they should choose to participate in alternative activities to horse riding.

 

[SEL]

Sorry to quote facts again but people become overweight by consuming more calories than they burn off and that is a choice. That isn’t meant to be cruel or nasty, but that is the truth.

Quite a bit more challenging than that for some of us on certain medications!!

 

[Upthecreek]

Quite a bit more challenging than that for some of us on certain medications!!

I’m in that boat myself so had to reduce my calorie intake and increase my exercise to mitigate. Or stop riding.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I hate these debates and personally I think weight comments should be kept to your bloody self.

With my build I always look heavier than I am, even when I’m a 10 I look heavy when riding. Things like this are very discriminatory and are a very slippery slope.

 

[GreysForDayz]

I recently went from 13 stone to 10.5 stone. I'm not sure you can really see it in pictures of me sat on the horse. But the horse sure as heck felt it!

Losing weight and keeping it off is hard. We have a sh*tty food environment and a stressful general environment and it is a big fight, especially if, like me, you have rubbish genetics too. But I decided it was one I needed to face up to for my horses' wellbeing. Mine are a 15.2 and a 16 hh solid built cobs. I still think 10.5 stone is a much happier weight for them than 13. Just because they could carry more doesn't mean I should be happy to make them do so.

I run 20 plus miles a week but I still have to limit my food to two meals a day of non-processed, low sugar, minimal and unrefined grains to maintain. I'm 5ft7 and broad shouldered and well-muscled but 10.5 stone is not a particularly low weight even so, I still have plenty of body fat and could lose another half stone without even sniffing "underweight". I'd probably get told I was skinny but truth is we've all normalised carrying too much fat. I really enjoy my food and was definitely addicted to sugar and am prone to comfort eating... especially as it eases my ASD related anxieties when I'm pigging out on a big bowl of pasta. But actually I need to find healthier ways to cope!!

I get that it is hard and don't judge people for being overweight. However I think people need to be really honest with themselves when they are about to get on a horse.

 

[SEL]

I too recently have seen a lady win in dressage on a good size Sec D - but she was huge and didn't really fit in the saddle. I was taken aback and had a sneaky FB stalk to find she regularly produces young horses. Recent photos winning in the show ring and commenting that they'd put up "fit not fat'" horses. The irony wasn't lost on me.

I think the more that is done to publish the effects of over weight riders on horses the better. Then it isn't personal and hopefully people can start to make the right decisions for their horse's welfare

 

[RHM]

I think we can all agree the 20% rule is fairly ludicrous for bigger horses. According to that my horse could happily carry 18.5 stone. Over double what she currently carries!

Although I fundamentally believe that no one has a right to ride horses. And I’m some circumstances it is undoubtedly cruel. I couldn’t imagine how a steward could enforce this or would want to, seen as it’s such an emotive topic. I can really see how it could kick off and I wouldn’t want to be the person telling someone to go home!

I believe most people ride because they love their horse. If there was clear scientific guidance which was well publicised then that would go along way. No one seems to agree on what is appropriate, particularly when it’s adults on ponies. And if half the people on your yard are telling you it’s fine then they are the half you will understandably listen to if your desperate to ride.

In some cases it’s desperately hard to loose weight. But surely having clear guidelines would give people the clarity/goal they need. Particularly if the dangers of going over the prescribed weight limit were more well known eg risk of arthritis

 

[maisie06]

I gave up riding when my weight started getting out of control. I wouldn't dream of sitting on a horse these days!

 

[sbloom]

Sorry to quote facts again but people become overweight by consuming more calories than they burn off and that is a choice. That isn’t meant to be cruel or nasty, but that is the truth.

We are not bunsen burners, it absolutely is NOT that simple, and to say so IS cruel and super irritating to people. Please go look at Rebelfit.

There was an experiment done, reported back, or carried out, by Zoe, the app. They fed a group of people a blueberry muffin and measured their blood sugar at 3 or 4 hours, much later than had been monitored before. A significant minority spiked around 3 hours. Those that did ate 400 calories more at their next meal...we are asking a LOT of people that they should be much stronger than everyone else and ignore what was clearly an increase in their appetite caused by their own body chemistry. The people in the study carried on eating more calories pretty much long term than did the control group without the blood sugar issue.

Referring to calories in calories out is cruel for this reason and shows a fundamental lack of understanding of weight.

I will not be the baddie here, I'm really sorry to upset anyone. My OH is significantly overweight, if anyone said I was at all abusive to fat people he'd wonder if you'd met another Steph that looked like me. Any MH issue is a massive challenge, I understand all this is triggering, but there are very few comments on here at all that are in any way cruel, in fact many are thoughtful. But when you're being triggered there's a really massive filter comes up and seeing wood for trees is tough, I'm sure we've all experienced it.

Not sure what else to say.

 

[Barton Bounty]

My tongue is agony ???

 

[Kat]

We are not bunsen burners, it absolutely is NOT that simple, and to say so IS cruel and super irritating to people. Please go look at Rebelfit.

There was an experiment done, reported back, or carried out, by Zoe, the app. They fed a group of people a blueberry muffin and measured their blood sugar at 3 or 4 hours, much later than had been monitored before. A significant minority spiked around 3 hours. Those that did ate 400 calories more at their next meal...we are asking a LOT of people that they should be much stronger than everyone else and ignore what was clearly an increase in their appetite caused by their own body chemistry. The people in the study carried on eating more calories pretty much long term than did the control group without the blood sugar issue.

Referring to calories in calories out is cruel for this reason and shows a fundamental lack of understanding of weight.

I will not be the baddie here, I'm really sorry to upset anyone. My OH is significantly overweight, if anyone said I was at all abusive to fat people he'd wonder if you'd met another Steph that looked like me. Any MH issue is a massive challenge, I understand all this is triggering, but there are very few comments on here at all that are in any way cruel, in fact many are thoughtful. But when you're being triggered there's a really massive filter comes up and seeing wood for trees is tough, I'm sure we've all experienced it.

Not sure what else to say.

I would also suggest Dr Andrew Jenkinson's book "Why we eat (too much)" for a very clear explanation (supported by evidence) of why calories in/calories out is inaccurate and a gross over simplification.

 

[PapaverFollis]

It's really hard to explain why calories in vs calories out is kind of meaningless and often counter productive. Certainly as anything more than a very, very crude measure. It is so entrenched in our minds. But we are not bomb calorimeters.

Also exercise is so much less important than we are led to believe. (Fortunately I quite enjoy running my 20 miles a week anyway, especially now I'm two stone lighter! Plus I think it DOES help me because it gives me feel good soothing feelings that I then don't have to seek from eating...)

I recommend "Spoon-fed" by Tim Spector for his discussion on calories. My mum took part in some of his muffin-eating twin studies... which gave me a hint about what my body might be doing with different food types and allowed me to find a way of losing and maintaining weight that is working for me. Because my genes and probably my gut microbiome could be similar to my mum's I knew from her results that trying cutting out sugar and refined carbs would be a good thing for me to try. It was. I have some sweet treats now but have drastically reduced AND my tastes have changed too which has made things easier.

Weight management is complex and really quite individual.

 

[Upthecreek]

We are not bunsen burners, it absolutely is NOT that simple, and to say so IS cruel and super irritating to people. Please go look at Rebelfit.

There was an experiment done, reported back, or carried out, by Zoe, the app. They fed a group of people a blueberry muffin and measured their blood sugar at 3 or 4 hours, much later than had been monitored before. A significant minority spiked around 3 hours. Those that did ate 400 calories more at their next meal...we are asking a LOT of people that they should be much stronger than everyone else and ignore what was clearly an increase in their appetite caused by their own body chemistry. The people in the study carried on eating more calories pretty much long term than did the control group without the blood sugar issue.

Referring to calories in calories out is cruel for this reason and shows a fundamental lack of understanding of weight.

I will not be the baddie here, I'm really sorry to upset anyone. My OH is significantly overweight, if anyone said I was at all abusive to fat people he'd wonder if you'd met another Steph that looked like me. Any MH issue is a massive challenge, I understand all this is triggering, but there are very few comments on here at all that are in any way cruel, in fact many are thoughtful. But when you're being triggered there's a really massive filter comes up and seeing wood for trees is tough, I'm sure we've all experienced it.

Not sure what else to say.

I have looked at Rebelfit and it’s an online health and fitness club. Weight management achieved through healthy eating and increasing physical activity. I am sorry for being cruel or irritating to people as that was not my intention. Consistently managing the calories I consume and adjusting my physical activity accordingly has always enabled me to manage my weight. I don’t see how that is so different to what Rebelfit is advocating.

 

[Lexi_]

The Diet Myth by Tim Spector is another really interesting read.

 

[sbloom]

I have looked at Rebelfit and it’s an online health and fitness club. Weight management achieved through healthy eating and increasing physical activity. I am sorry for being cruel or irritating to people as that was not my intention. Consistently managing the calories I consume and adjusting my physical activity accordingly has always enabled me to manage my weight. I don’t see how that is so different to what Rebelfit is advocating.

It's really not a health and fitness club, though it can look like it at first glance, but it's not what's at the core.

Set point weight - what weight your body gravitates to, and why. Working with the factors that affect set point weight - emotional relationship with food, genetics, environment, habits, behaviours....mental health is at the centre of much of this. And it's proven that physical activity is not the best way to lose weight - mind set is where to start, you clearly have that nailed, other people need much more help.

My set point weight has risen because of menopause. Exercise, especially aerobic, would have little effect, but I should exercise more for OTHER health benefits. As it is I have enough on my plate and I'll give myself a break for putting on a little weight - not doing so is highly likely to make me stressed, make me eat more, gain weight AND my set point rises. For now I'll sit with it and work on the other things in my life that make me stressed.

That's how Rebelfit works.

 

[sbloom]

The Diet Myth by Tim Spector is another really interesting read.

I think he's the Zoe app guy?

 

[PapaverFollis]

I think he's the Zoe app guy?

Yes he is.

 

[Dexter]

Is that the one who rides that hogged bay mare? Ray something or other

Ray The Goth. The fact she has a large following and has sponsorship says it all for me. The slow mo videos of her jumping are incredibly sad to watch.

 

[SmallPony]

The Diet Myth by Tim Spector is another really interesting read.

Giles Yeo also has some great books - "Gene Eating" and "Why Calories Don't Count" - he narrates them both on Audible, highly recommended as a mucking out/ poo picking listen! ?

 

[Goldenstar]

Being overweight is NOT a choice.
No one would choose the hell I live in every day. No one.

And I will not be gas lighted into believing that everyone on here is trying not to be judgemental or some not be downright nasty about it.

All this confirms to me that if my beautiful HW cob ever is show-able it wont be me doing it as I'm just not strong enough to deal with the nasty backbiting comments.
I get that some people have lost a stone, 2 or 3 because they needed to be slimmer.
No one understands the isolation of being huge and trying, trying, trying and failing to lose the 5, 6 or 7 stone they want to. Every time picking yourself up and trying to get your head in the right place to try again. And fail. Over and over.

For most it’s a choice to be overweight .
There’s nothing you can tell me about weight , the loss ,the gain , the messing with your head ,the whole merry go round .
The things you put off until you are slim I have been at this since my early teens .
If you are too heavy for your horse you should not be riding it 20% including tack is the maximum I think it reasonable to expect a horse to carry .
Horse welfare is horse welfare the fact that it’s hard to maintain a correct weight is not relevant .

 

[sbloom]

For most it’s a choice to be overweight .
There’s nothing you can tell me about weight , the loss ,the gain , the messing with your head ,the whole merry go round .
The things you put off until you are slim I have been at this since my early teens .
If you are too heavy for your horse you should not be riding it 20% including tack is the maximum I think it reasonable to expect a horse to carry .
Horse welfare is horse welfare the fact that it’s hard to maintain a correct weight is not relevant .

Have you read any of the stuff we've posted about it's NOT calories in, calories out? If it's a choice, making the right choice is 100 times easier for some people than others, people should not be beaten up for having it harder than others, they should be understood and helped. You're just making people feel worse.

 

[Goldenstar]

Quite a bit more challenging than that for some of us on certain medications!!

That of course is very true however for most it is simple it’s a choice if you eat something or don’t .
Educating your self about health has never been easier .

 

[Goldenstar]

Have you read any of the stuff we've posted about it's NOT calories in, calories out? If it's a choice, making the right choice is 100 times easier for some people than others, people should not be beaten up for having it harder than others, they should be understood and helped. You're just making people feel worse.

Insulin resistance ….if you gain weight easily you can’t eat carbs like some people can , I can’t eat blueberry muffins I would not dream of doing so .
It’s a choice if you are Insulin resistant you can choose to do something about it .

 

[sbloom]

That of course is very true however for most it is simple it’s a choice if you eat something or don’t .
Educating your self about health has never been easier .

https://www.facebook.com/WeAreRebel...Uq2jWvFzU2FK5YznqKw31vi4brDcLFRrkoFjvFLwQfiFl

 

[sbloom]

Insulin resistance ….if you gain weight easily you can’t eat carbs like some people can , I can’t eat blueberry muffins I would not dream of doing so .
It’s a choice if you are Insulin resistant you can choose to do something about it .

No, it's not, in the Zoe experiment it was about the timing of insulin release, the slower insulin spike caused the issue.

You have all the right stuff going on to have it relatively easy to make the choice not to eat muffins. Have some flipping empathy and stop thinking everyone is like you.

My mother used to think overweight people were lazy, but she thinks she's lazy, and her life has been made pretty miserable because of it. She's not lazy, she has ADHD like I do but she used that self judgement, harmful in itself, to judge the rest of the world. It was her problem, not that everyone else was lazy.

She's lost all interest in food so if anything is underweight now but the executive function deficit, and her other issues in life, meant her set point weight was higher than she wanted for years and years, and she was miserable about it much of the time. She was healthy, and her life was good in all other ways. Stressing about your weight makes you heavier. On average.

 

[Gloi]

Half the show horses are carrying over 100kg extra weight 24 hours a day before a rider gets on.

 

[Goldenstar]

No, it's not, in the Zoe experiment it was about the timing of insulin release, the slower insulin spike caused the issue.

You have all the right stuff going on to have it relatively easy to make the choice not to eat muffins. Have some flipping empathy and stop thinking everyone is like you.

My mother used to think overweight people were lazy, but she thinks she's lazy, and her life has been made pretty miserable because of it. She's not lazy, she has ADHD like I do but she used that self judgement, harmful in itself, to judge the rest of the world. It was her problem, not that everyone else was lazy.

She's lost all interest in food so if anything is underweight now but the executive function deficit, and her other issues in life, meant her set point weight was higher than she wanted for years and years, and she was miserable about it much of the time. She was healthy, and her life was good in all other ways. Stressing about your weight makes you heavier. On average.

Stressing about your weight while not changing your choices condemns people to treading the same path year after year .
It’s not necessary .

 

[Goldenstar]

Half the show horses are carrying over 100kg extra weight 24 hours a day before a rider gets on.

An other humongous serious unacceptable issue .
I saw a wince inducing of a very large rider on a hugely fat maxi cob on Facebook last week . The rider had the choice the poor horse has none.

 

[sbloom]

WHY are people not changing their choices?!! Arrgh.

The only thing I agree with is that riders should not weigh more than their horse can easily carry without developing compensatory movement patterns, or suffering health issues. I agree with you all on that, but the rest, such judgemental bunkum refusing to acknowledge what is it to be human in a modern world.

I'm off, apart from paraphrasing another post higher up - "youre making really sh*tty choices but I'm not judging you". Aren't you all lucky to be so GOOD.

 

[RHM]

Very interesting point regarding stress. The heaviest I’ve been was as a 17 year old, living in a very toxic environment and fairly depressed. My weight started dropping as soon as I left that environment and had been considerably lower ever since. Now I’m not going to lie and say I had a healthy relationship with food, and very clearly was overeating. Despite being in the gym hours a day I didn’t really loose. It’s certainly food for thought for those who are overweight.
I really do sympathise with those struggling. However, it doesn’t change my opinion that they should be riding if they are too heavy for the horse in question.