Sue dysan - made up expert

[conniegirl]

Having recently had a conversation with a friend, she was saying that anyone over 18stone shouldn’t be riding. And someone that heavy is “ in worlds strongest man territory”. As someone who has never been light and in my adult life has never been under 13st (not for want of trying, for a brief period I was eating like a nutritionist and having Personal training 5x per week, but I’m 5’8 and built like a cob. But as it turns out I have a health issue which causes me to hold onto fat)
I generally find that people misjudge how much people weigh, and are to quick to condemn. At 20%, an 18stone rider + tack would need a horse of 635kg- which to a lot of horses with some substance and bone is more than a reasonable weight, I’ve certainly owned horses of 600-650kg who were not fat! But I suppose that 20% rule was the aim of this study, though if there has been misconduct then it could invalidate study as someone above has said. I think some more research does need doing into this area, as it’d be nice to have some “ industry guidelines”

Lol! WSM the lightest tends to be around 22 stone, Eddie hall when he won WSM was 206kg which is just a smidge over 32stone. that is definitely too heavy to get on a horse though he could probably pick mine up and carry him!

 

[ApolloStorm]

Lol! WSM the lightest tends to be around 22 stone, Eddie hall when he won WSM was 206kg which is just a smidge over 32stone. that is definitely too heavy to get on a horse though he could probably pick mine up and carry him!

Quite!! But demonstrates the point that some people have really skewed views on how heavy people are.

 

[rabatsa]

I think horses back then were considered old at 9, possibly partly because nobody cared how much weight they carried as long as they were still on their feet.
.

I would also think that lack of internal parasite control played a part in short livespans. I think that probably horses were a lot tougher, just look at racehorses and how they have altered.

 

[maya2008]

The bottom line is that WE ARE ALL TOO HEAVY FOR OUR HORSES.

There is nothing beneficial to a horse at all, nothing that improves welfare, in being ridden.

Now that...my pssm mare would disagree with, as would the vet in regards to her. Left in the field to recover from a field injury for 9 months, she wasted away to almost nothing. When we brought her in again, the saddle fitter was astounded as there was ‘no muscle anywhere’ - obviously some, but a horse of otherwise good weight had enormous muscle wastage due to her condition. I got back on, bareback it turned out as no saddle would fit even with pads etc and flocking adjustments. A few minutes a day built gradually and 18 months later I had the pleasure of lending her to a friend for a hack - watching that mare gallop up the hill beside me, muscles rippling, clearly fit and healthy, made all the hard work and endless patience worth it. She won’t live as long as she might because it would be cruel to retire her, but she has latched onto my little girl and is being the first ridden of her dreams. I still need to ride as she needs to be worked correctly to keep certain muscles, but she is a happy, healthy looking horse now, where out of work she was not.

My TB would also disagree - before her retirement she had freer movement behind and her locking stifles bothered her less/not at all. I worked hard to keep the muscles around those ligaments built up and strong, so everything moved correctly. Now they are more of a problem and I absolutely could not put anything feisty in with her as she would not be able to defend herself.

My youngsters fight at the gate to be ridden first, shove their heads in each others’ headcollars and generally are eager to go out and explore. We have no stables, being caught only ever means work. Interestingly, if they have hurt themselves, they hang back and stay away. Then I know something is wrong!

For my herd, where work mostly means a fun hack, they love their work for the variety it provides. For some of them, it provides health benefits also.

I am sure though for a healthy horse in the wild, riding would provide no benefit at all...

 

[horsimous]

I thought something was a bit amiss with some of her articles as she almost seemed to decide the outcome and then skew the write up to fit it.

 

[HashRouge]

Clearly subjective definition applies here - too heavy is heavier than me - but I'm fine, and a great rider. Horsey people like to use themselves as the benchmark for 'reasonable weight' and 'reasonable ability'.

I do get your point, but I'm not sure it's hugely helpful. Yes, we all like to think we don't do any damage to our horses by riding them and yes, they aren't designed to be ridden so probably that's not true BUT unless we are going to call for an outright ban on any riding, at all, we need to talk about what constitutes too much. You can come back at me and say "well, any weight is too much", but that doesn't help anyone - unless we are going to ban riding completely. Perhaps the question should be rephrased - what weight can a horse be expected to carry without it risking long-lasting harm to their physical health? And we know this is possible, because there are plenty of retired horses enjoying their old age with a bit of arthritis, yes, but otherwise seemingly unharmed by their ridden careers (I've certainly got one).

 

[sbloom]

Thanks for joining the thread, pedilia,

The main beef about the saddle is that it patently did not fit the very heavy rider, though it may well have fitted the horse.

I have seen too large riders being sold too small brand new saddles by ‘well known name’ saddle fitting companies, with the rider’s arse squidging out over the back of the cantle. This messes up the whole weight distribution thing.

I applaud any discussion about saddle fit for larger riders and the realities of it, but it always seems to fall to saddle fitters to sort this. We have a fixed length ribcage, and unless we're working with alternative styles of saddles, I firmly believe that 99% rider's weight should be on, and not beyond, the ribcage. Some believe the panel can extend beyond the back rib but the tree must be up to the back rib only. I believe that's a difficult judgement call, and that some horses don't even like a saddle TO the back rib, fitting beyond it will always be higher risk. And not all horses can take wider seats and rear panels either.

Do I turn the customer away (and I have done!) for them to find another saddle fitter who will fit them something (to whatever standard), or do I find the best compromise, with remedial padding to help absorb shock and spread pressure, knowing at least I'm doing my best by them? Recommending they ride less and do more in hand work to build those rider carrying muscles and improve posture?

When, as riders, will we even THINK about can a horse take a big enough saddle for us, when we buy them, perhaps asking the vet when we have them vetted? Do vets know enough about this? When will we ask our equinebodyworkers to tell us whether we really ARE a bit too big for the "saddle platform", and ask why there are dents under the back of the saddle under what looks like a really well fitting saddle? Do bodyworkers know enough about this?

I think this is a massively difficult topic, but I do resent that after a vet and bodyworker have seen the horse, which is the case before we see most recently purchased horses, that it's down to us to tell the rider they've bought the wrong horse?

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I am actually quite shocked at 22 stone.

I’m not riding until I shift the 5kg I’ve put on over the last few months, and that is more than double my weight.

I’m hugely disappointed not to be in the saddle right now but I’ve made a call based on wanting Mim to still be going for a potter down the lanes at 30 +.

I’m sure Mim could carry me now, and I’m sure she wouldn’t even notice the difference. But carrying something every day is wearing, and her soundness in 20 years time is as important to me as her soundness tomorrow.

I totally understand Shils point re “we are all too heavy”. To me it’s about mitigating the degree of damage we inevitably cause. I know I’m heavier than I can be at this weight, so I’ll be as light as I can be. I appreciate that’s a different number for everyone but at some point common sense has to say that you know you are going to cause long term pain.

 

[windand rain]

I still think in it all we have to recognise the damaged caused by the horse being obese itself lower joint problems must be exacerbated by the horse carrying 100kgs of fat itself even if it might cause fewer back issues

 

[tristar]

I would also think that lack of internal parasite control played a part in short livespans. I think that probably horses were a lot tougher, just look at racehorses and how they have altered.

i have books from many years ago, a lot of the tb horses who won at the highest levels are recorded as living to 25 to 30 years, the true lifespan of a horse

its debatable whether horse management was worse or better then or whether horses were tougher

 

[TPO]

I still think in it all we have to recognise the damaged caused by the horse being obese itself lower joint problems must be exacerbated by the horse carrying 100kgs of fat itself even if it might cause fewer back issues

Yip and like I said before many see this big (fat) horse that is 200kgs overweight and say "I'm less than 20% of 700kgs" when really, if calculating by %, it should be a % of the IDEAL 500kg bodyweight.

Figures made up for illustrative purposes only ?

Then you are down the rabbit hole of people not recognising fat horses...

100% agree with @sbloom post. One of many reasons that I didnt last long as EBW/saddle fitter was that exact scenario. I went to see one older wee welsh C where the owner was far too big. Weight aside she was far too tall (5ft10 I think she said) to ever fit into the 17" she had and my judgement was that horse would be better in a 16.5" max. The lady was also heavy built and over the back of the saddle due to that and long thighs.

The pony has a sore back with raised bruising, it was lame hand walking and had zero topline. It physically struggled carrying her.

I advised getting a vet for the lameness. I suspected hocks and arthritis, but I'm not a vet.

I let her feel the raised swollen areas on her horses back and advised a rest from ridden work and to look I to physio/massage after the vet had okayed it. She told me physio for horses was nonsense and her horse didnt need it before proceeding to tell me how much she got out of sport massages for her back and shoulders ? this was a clever well educated woman who couldn't equate her niggles to the horse who carried her possibly needing similar attention.

As @sbloom said there were things I tried to advise to make life better for the horse. As she was insisting on carrying on riding there were saddle set ups that would make things slightly better for the pony. Owner said she wasnt spending money on an older horse, would be keeping that saddle and just wanted the standard reflock. I gave in hand exercises to help the ponys core strength and advised cutting down on ridden time until vet had seen the horse but it all fell on deaf ears.

Owner continuously told me how much they loved the pony and how amazing a pony she was ?

She clearly thought she was fine to ride that wee pony regardless.

If there was a proper (authorised!) study done then maybe vets, trainers, saddles, physios, etc would feel empowered to speak up on behalf of the horse and have more than common sense as back up?

 

[Not_so_brave_anymore]

I would find it much more useful for someone to compile a comprehensive list of early "warning signs" to look out for in a ridden horse. There's too many variables to even try and come up with any sort of rule of thumb really.

You can't do right for doing wrong sometimes. It's really easy to dismiss pain responses as behavioural problems. But it's equally easy to throw money at "diagnosing" a tricky horse when actually in some instances they DO just need a firmer hand and more exercise.

Oh ignore me, I'm rambling - I'm just having an anxious pony day!

 

[tristar]

Now that...my pssm mare would disagree with, as would the vet in regards to her. Left in the field to recover from a field injury for 9 months, she wasted away to almost nothing. When we brought her in again, the saddle fitter was astounded as there was ‘no muscle anywhere’ - obviously some, but a horse of otherwise good weight had enormous muscle wastage due to her condition. I got back on, bareback it turned out as no saddle would fit even with pads etc and flocking adjustments. A few minutes a day built gradually and 18 months later I had the pleasure of lending her to a friend for a hack - watching that mare gallop up the hill beside me, muscles rippling, clearly fit and healthy, made all the hard work and endless patience worth it. She won’t live as long as she might because it would be cruel to retire her, but she has latched onto my little girl and is being the first ridden of her dreams. I still need to ride as she needs to be worked correctly to keep certain muscles, but she is a happy, healthy looking horse now, where out of work she was not.

My TB would also disagree - before her retirement she had freer movement behind and her locking stifles bothered her less/not at all. I worked hard to keep the muscles around those ligaments built up and strong, so everything moved correctly. Now they are more of a problem and I absolutely could not put anything feisty in with her as she would not be able to defend herself.

My youngsters fight at the gate to be ridden first, shove their heads in each others’ headcollars and generally are eager to go out and explore. We have no stables, being caught only ever means work. Interestingly, if they have hurt themselves, they hang back and stay away. Then I know something is wrong!

For my herd, where work mostly means a fun hack, they love their work for the variety it provides. For some of them, it provides health benefits also.

I am sure though for a healthy horse in the wild, riding would provide no benefit at all...

no one will ever convince me that riding a horse correctly is bad for it, the time and effort taken to produce a properly schooled horse is a passage of joy in itself, and to see an animal grow and change in posture and self esteem beats winning rosettes any day

if you have never gone down that road don`t tell others it does not exist, if you are not knowledgeable enough to travel it why try to tell others it can`t be done

horses are like people in the way they can enjoy movement and mental stimulation and have the intelligence to learn and to feel the benefits of regular gymnastics, and generally taking part in life thats what its for, not sitting on the sidelines or in a stable 23 hours a day or hanging around in the mud bored stiff, and when man and horse come together something wonderful happens and both rise above the everyday

of course if you are too lazy to make the effort l don`t try to drag others down with you

 

[Annagain]

Yip and like I said before many see this big (fat) horse that is 200kgs overweight and say "I'm less than 20% of 700kgs" when really, if calculating by %, it should be a % of the IDEAL 500kg bodyweight.

Figures made up for illustrative purposes only ?

Then you are down the rabbit hole of people not recognising fat horses...

100% agree with @sbloom post. One of many reasons that I didnt last long as EBW/saddle fitter was that exact scenario. I went to see one older wee welsh C where the owner was far too big. Weight aside she was far too tall (5ft10 I think she said) to ever fit into the 17" she had and my judgement was that horse would be better in a 16.5" max. The lady was also heavy built and over the back of the saddle due to that and long thighs.

The pony has a sore back with raised bruising, it was lame hand walking and had zero topline. It physically struggled carrying her.

I advised getting a vet for the lameness. I suspected hocks and arthritis, but I'm not a vet.

I let her feel the raised swollen areas on her horses back and advised a rest from ridden work and to look I to physio/massage after the vet had okayed it. She told me physio for horses was nonsense and her horse didnt need it before proceeding to tell me how much she got out of sport massages for her back and shoulders ? this was a clever well educated woman who couldn't equate her niggles to the horse who carried her possibly needing similar attention.

As @sbloom said there were things I tried to advise to make life better for the horse. As she was insisting on carrying on riding there were saddle set ups that would make things slightly better for the pony. Owner said she wasnt spending money on an older horse, would be keeping that saddle and just wanted the standard reflock. I gave in hand exercises to help the ponys core strength and advised cutting down on ridden time until vet had seen the horse but it all fell on deaf ears.

Owner continuously told me how much they loved the pony and how amazing a pony she was ?

She clearly thought she was fine to ride that wee pony regardless.

If there was a proper (authorised!) study done then maybe vets, trainers, saddles, physios, etc would feel empowered to speak up on behalf of the horse and have more than common sense as back up?

That's so sad, I don't understand why anybody would treat any horse like that, let alone an "amazing" pony she had clearly had for years. I tend to mix with people very like myself, who care for their horses in the same way so am a bit naïve, I suppose, when it comes to things like this - or I probably choose not to see it as it's more comfortable for me to think everyone is as good to their horses as my friends and I are. You must have to develop such a thick skin as someone who sees the whole range, knowing you can't help them all.

 

[Annagain]

no one will ever convince me that riding a horse correctly is bad for it, the time and effort taken to produce a properly schooled horse is a passage of joy in itself, and to see an animal grow and change in posture and self esteem beats winning rosettes any day

if you have never gone down that road don`t tell others it does not exist, if you are not knowledgeable enough to travel it why try to tell others it can`t be done

horses are like people in the way they can enjoy movement and mental stimulation and have the intelligence to learn and to feel the benefits of regular gymnastics, and generally taking part in life thats what its for, not sitting on the sidelines or in a stable 23 hours a day or hanging around in the mud bored stiff, and when man and horse come together something wonderful happens and both rise above the everyday

of course if you are too lazy to make the effort l don`t try to drag others down with you

To be fair I don't think Shils was advocating leaving horses in stables instead of riding them, she was simply taking the argument to the extreme to prove a point i.e. until (wo)man domesticated the horse for his/her purposes they did not carry any weight and were therefore never 'designed' to carrry weight. Of course, thousands of years of domestication, selective breeding and scientific advances mean horses are better evolved to carry weight now than they were and many enjoy that interaction with humans but that still isn't their biological raison d'etre.

 

[tristar]

and i am taking it to the middle point.

 

[tristar]

To be fair I don't think Shils was advocating leaving horses in stables instead of riding them, she was simply taking the argument to the extreme to prove a point i.e. until (wo)man domesticated the horse for his/her purposes they did not carry any weight and were therefore never 'designed' to carrry weight. Of course, thousands of years of domestication, selective breeding and scientific advances mean horses are better evolved to carry weight now than they were and many enjoy that interaction with humans but that still isn't their biological raison d'etre.

try reading what they actually said

 

[TPO]

To be fair I don't think Shils was advocating leaving horses in stables instead of riding them, she was simply taking the argument to the extreme to prove a point i.e. until (wo)man domesticated the horse for his/her purposes they did not carry any weight and were therefore never 'designed' to carrry weight. Of course, thousands of years of domestication, selective breeding and scientific advances mean horses are better evolved to carry weight now than they were and many enjoy that interaction with humans but that still isn't their biological raison d'etre.

Exactly; to say otherwise is to demonstrate a complete lack of understanding and knowledge about literally everything equine related from anatomy to training.

Ignorance is bliss I guess ??

 

[Shilasdair]

To be fair I don't think Shils was advocating leaving horses in stables instead of riding them, she was simply taking the argument to the extreme to prove a point i.e. until (wo)man domesticated the horse for his/her purposes they did not carry any weight and were therefore never 'designed' to carrry weight. Of course, thousands of years of domestication, selective breeding and scientific advances mean horses are better evolved to carry weight now than they were and many enjoy that interaction with humans but that still isn't their biological raison d'etre.

Exactly.
And while you can argue that exercise/movement is beneficial for the horse (and mimics their natural lifestyle) you can't really argue that carrying a human on their back is physically beneficial for them in itself.

I'm pointing out that we need to have a more intelligent conversation about harm mitigation than a blanket '22 stone is too heavy' and '11 stone is fine' (what, for a Shetland?).

I find it interesting that people are saying more people are too heavy for ponies (it's true - human height and therefore weight has shot up in the last century) but at the same time I remember a thread where I argued that Highland pony breed standards should be modernised to allow a larger, but still proportionate type (and was shouted down ). So as a society, do only short light women ride - and we exclude taller women, and men?

My feeling is that the best way of protecting horse welfare if we insist on riding, is to calculate it as a proportion of the horse's bodyweight (using ideal condition scores).

Incidentally, Tristar, I don't ride at the moment (my two are field ornaments) but have ridden/taught riding in the past.

 

[Willow1306]

I would find it much more useful for someone to compile a comprehensive list of early "warning signs" to look out for in a ridden horse. There's too many variables to even try and come up with any sort of rule of thumb really.

This has been done: The Ridden Horse Pain Ethogram. It was developed by the very same vet, who has done so much for equine welfare over the course of her career, that so many people on this thread are so quick to vilify.

Here is a quick link:https://www.eurodressage.com/index....longer-how-ridden-horse-pain-ethogram-evolved

 

[tristar]

ignorance is never bliss, if you live in the real world

 

[Shilasdair]

Perhaps this is also a good place to share this video again 'Recognising subtle lameness'

One of a very helpful series.
(Although - I've yet to hear an instructor say 'use a stronger bit/use more spurs/use more leg or ride him through it' so Devil knows who they are training with!

 

[tristar]

Exactly.
And while you can argue that exercise/movement is beneficial for the horse (and mimics their natural lifestyle) you can't really argue that carrying a human on their back is physically beneficial for them in itself.

I'm pointing out that we need to have a more intelligent conversation about harm mitigation than a blanket '22 stone is too heavy' and '11 stone is fine' (what, for a Shetland?).

I find it interesting that people are saying more people are too heavy for ponies (it's true - human height and therefore weight has shot up in the last century) but at the same time I remember a thread where I argued that Highland pony breed standards should be modernised to allow a larger, but still proportionate type (and was shouted down ). So as a society, do only short light women ride - and we exclude taller women, and men?

My feeling is that the best way of protecting horse welfare if we insist on riding, is to calculate it as a proportion of the horse's bodyweight (using ideal condition scores).

Incidentally, Tristar, I don't ride at the moment (my two are field ornaments) but have ridden/taught riding in the past.

but people will continue to ride so you are right we need a conversation, but its not just about weight the whole interaction of farriery, training methods, husbandry and weight and our expectations of what we hope to get from riding and what the horse can get from it, when i had an interest in saddlery i would sell about 20 saddles a week and learned a lot, that was many years ago, many saddle makers had never been near a horse. vets who never rode a horse, dubious farriers, trainers who had no idea about straightness etc

to gain a true pic they all need to work together, saddlers, farriers, vets, trainers from different areas and not in isolation, weight is only one issue, a fuller pic of how working a horse can be beneficial to horses lives because they are here and are going to be ridden

 

[ihatework]

That's so sad, I don't understand why anybody would treat any horse like that, let alone an "amazing" pony she had clearly had for years. I tend to mix with people very like myself, who care for their horses in the same way so am a bit naïve, I suppose, when it comes to things like this - or I probably choose not to see it as it's more comfortable for me to think everyone is as good to their horses as my friends and I are. You must have to develop such a thick skin as someone who sees the whole range, knowing you can't help them all.

And I’d imagine that is very similar to what Sue Dyson has seen in her long and very well respected career.
Probably many many lame horses that are ‘loved and adored’ by their owners who are either very bad riders or too heavy for their horses (or both). And very upsetting and frustrating having to try and treat these horses where owners are blind to reality. So I can see why she might be passionate enough about it to get to the point of doing the study, however poor that study was, and if the ethics regulations were forged as is alleged.

Seeing how it has come about doesn’t mean it’s right or condoned btw. Which is why, if this is proven, it’s so so saddening and super frustrating.

 

[Shilasdair]

but people will continue to ride so you are right we need a conversation, but its not just about weight the whole interaction of farriery, training methods, husbandry and weight and our expectations of what we hope to get from riding and what the horse can get from it, when i had an interest in saddlery i would sell about 20 saddles a week and learned a lot, that was many years ago, many saddle makers had never been near a horse. vets who never rode a horse, dubious farriers, trainers who had no idea about straightness etc

to gain a true pic they all need to work together, saddlers, farriers, vets, trainers from different areas and not in isolation, weight is only one issue, a fuller pic of how working a horse can be beneficial to horses lives because they are here and are going to be ridden

Agreed - but one step at a time!

One thing I don't understand - why are saddles so blooming heavy and uncomfortable? And why are so many of them still designed for a male pelvis?
Anyway, I digress.

 

[Sail_away]

Regarding the equestrian college weight limit - I think 15% including tack is more realistic than 20%. I’d be a little over 10% on mine with tack and he definitely couldn’t take twice my weight comfortably. 15% of a 550kg horse is 13 stone. Very few of their horses are likely to be 600kg+ weight carriers and it’s also worth bearing in mind they have to work a lot more hours than the average leisure horse. No it’s not convenient but there you go, it was a decision made for the welfare of the horses so good on them.

 

[sbloom]

The first of two blog posts about saddle platform length, study it and take a tape measure when going to view a horse to purchase! https://www.ahsaddles.com/post/2019/04/30/horse-shopping-saddle-length-part-1

One thing I don't understand - why are saddles so blooming heavy and uncomfortable? And why are so many of them still designed for a male pelvis?
Anyway, I digress.

Trees are designed to fit horses first and foremost, there is more variation between different female pelvises, than there are on average between male and female. It's a very individual thing, and the marketing hype behind "female friendly saddles" is just that. And the materials that go into them are on the heavy side, and that heft can also help stability. Plastic treed saddles can be lighter but they also often cant sit down and around the horse. You should only worry about weight of saddle being a factor if you struggle to lift it yourself, or if you're at the limit of what the horse can carry, The difference, with stirrups and pad etc, between the heaviest and lightest regular saddles is less than most people's weight can fluctuate in a year. A good fit is WAY more important.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I think this is a massively difficult topic, but I do resent that after a vet and bodyworker have seen the horse, which is the case before we see most recently purchased horses, that it's down to us to tell the rider they've bought the wrong horse?

You are coming at it from a different angle, though? The vet and bodyworker may be unaware that it will be difficult to fit a saddle to the horse that will fit the rider.

The saddle fitter that I now use works in conjunction with a chiro vet - if there is a mismatch between what the horse can take and what the rider needs, the rider will be told.

The ‘big name’ saddle selling and fitting company that I mentioned upthread wouldn’t know a correctly fitting saddle if it bit them up the bum. They also sold a brand new 18” saddle to a petite rider with a long backed horse, the rider was swimming in it from the start.

 

[tristar]

to be honest i have two saddles i use mainly thorowgood T6 and a crosby dressage and i find them both comfortable, they fit well as can be expected, i have other gp saddles, but don`t use them a lot, i am 5ft 6 and 10 stone my shape is athletic medium build so probably it should make it easier for me to suit many saddles, however i hate them to ride on, cumbersome and interfering is how i find a lot of them,

i find if the saddle fits the horse the horse moves efficiently under the rider, me, this makes it possible for me to follow the horse without undue movement and stay in balance, it helps the horse to flow under me unrestricted and lets me sit where i can be most effective to give subtle aids and feel the horse through my seat

it comes back to the holistic thing always fit. skill, farriery, training , conformation all the things that need be present to bring it all together.for me anyway

the worst saddle i ever had was made by a master saddler and cost a fortune, i always give the last word to the horse on saddle fit

hopefully as new materials come through lighter more shock absorbing panels will emerge, although i have had many leather saddles that were very light years ago, and rode on just about every make going then just to try them out, i did not find them comfortable

 

[tristar]

The first of two blog posts about saddle platform length, study it and take a tape measure when going to view a horse to purchase! https://www.ahsaddles.com/post/2019/04/30/horse-shopping-saddle-length-part-1



Trees are designed to fit horses first and foremost, there is more variation between different female pelvises, than there are on average between male and female. It's a very individual thing, and the marketing hype behind "female friendly saddles" is just that. And the materials that go into them are on the heavy side, and that heft can also help stability. Plastic treed saddles can be lighter but they also often cant sit down and around the horse. You should only worry about weight of saddle being a factor if you struggle to lift it yourself, or if you're at the limit of what the horse can carry, The difference, with stirrups and pad etc, between the heaviest and lightest regular saddles is less than most people's weight can fluctuate in a year. A good fit is WAY more important.

about 5 mins ago i sold a treed race exercise saddle to a race horse trainer, two weeks ago i sold a treeless one to another trainer,


what do you think about the use of treeless as opposed to treed race ex saddles, if you don`t mind please