The SNP and Mrs Nicola Sturgeon

[Buddy'sMum]

It would be great entertainment no more free university funded by England ,etc etc perks you have in scotland that are not available south of the border .

So the Northern Irish, Welsh and Scots don't pay tax?

Her only other hope would be increasing taxes and the big buisness that at the moment contributes to what you say comes to westminster will move south of the border because taxes will be lower.

Genius! Yes, the North Sea oil and gas industry will relocate to...the Thames? And of course businesses are going to flock to England for the lower taxes and, of course, for access to the European single market...oh wait...

 

[Judgemental]

I hope Mrs Sturgeon looks carefully at the failed coup in Turkey and reflects that Turkey wants to become a member of the EU.

Does she really want Scotland to be members of a club with such potentially unstable members.

If she is wise, she and her colleagues will 'hunker down' and make the best of what they have.

We might not be ideal in terms of her ideological political aspirations but 'better the devil you know than the devil you don't'.

Mrs Sturgeon needs to become far more worldly for her own good and the people of Scotland. She is still very immature so far as the international world stage is concerned.

Plainly an EU military force will have been advanced in the minds of the remaining 27 EU leaders as a result of the situation in Turkey, in order to deal with that type of scenario. Also it gives the 27 an excuse to form an EU military force made up of a collective of army, navy and air-force personnel who are nationals from each country.

If Scotland cedes to the EU, they will have to be party of that EU military force and supply Scots personnel.

It simply will not work.

I hope Mrs Sturgeon would not think any Scot's regiments could take an operational role in any EU adventure.

 

[popsdosh]

So the Northern Irish, Welsh and Scots don't pay tax?



Genius! Yes, the North Sea oil and gas industry will relocate to...the Thames? And of course businesses are going to flock to England for the lower taxes and, of course, for access to the European single market...oh wait...

This may make interesting reading and is the most recent figures.
www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn06625.pdf

The things I find most interesting are the figures the Scottish government leave out before feeding it to the population as it puts a completely different perspective on things apparently you are not going to need any defence etc.. So with independence tell me how they will balance the books keeping the population and businesses happy. They will have to become magicians

 

[Alec Swan]

Considering the current chaos within the EU, and specifically the worrying problems in Turkey, which though not members will impact heavily upon the rest of Europe, any plans for a separate link between the EU and Scotland, is nothing short of madness. Perhaps when 'things' settle down? Will they, settle down that is? I would be most surprised.

Though Scotland's problems with Westminster are serious and entrenched, we are all a part of the UK and despite the current level of apparent immaturity on the part of Mrs Sturgeon, the bond is still in place and it will remain, I pray.

Alec.

 

[popsdosh]

I hope Mrs Sturgeon looks carefully at the failed coup in Turkey and reflects that Turkey wants to become a member of the EU.

Does she really want Scotland to be members of a club with such potentially unstable members.

If she is wise, she and her colleagues will 'hunker down' and make the best of what they have.

We might not be ideal in terms of her ideological political aspirations but 'better the devil you know than the devil you don't'.

Mrs Sturgeon needs to become far more worldly for her own good and the people of Scotland. She is still very immature so far as the international world stage is concerned.

Plainly an EU military force will have been advanced in the minds of the remaining 27 EU leaders as a result of the situation in Turkey, in order to deal with that type of scenario. Also it gives the 27 an excuse to form an EU military force made up of a collective of army, navy and air-force personnel who are nationals from each country.
Maybe its a service England could lease them or a PFI deal.

If Scotland cedes to the EU, they will have to be party of that EU military force and supply Scots personnel.

It simply will not work.

I hope Mrs Sturgeon would not think any Scot's regiments could take an operational role in any EU adventure.

Well as I have found out the Scottish government have no budget for defence or at least dont account for it when making up the books so maybe she thinks the EU will supply it for free in exchange for Scotland gracing them with their membership.

 

[Judgemental]

Well as I have found out the Scottish government have no budget for defence or at least dont account for it when making up the books so maybe she thinks the EU will supply it for free in exchange for Scotland gracing them with their membership.

No money for defense, can't pay the membership fee and not enough money for the NHS. Mrs Sturgeon and SNP are hopelessly ridiculous and should stop wasting everybody's time.

 

[Alec Swan]

No money for defense, can't pay the membership fee and not enough money for the NHS. Mrs Sturgeon and SNP are hopelessly ridiculous and should stop wasting everybody's time.

That's all very well and you may well be right, but it doesn't solve the sense of unhappiness felt by a great many Scots towards being a part of the UK, does it?

Alec.

 

[Shutterbug]

You lot will only believe what you want to believe that much is obvious.

Scotland pays 3.5 billion to the UK defence budget and gets 1.4 billion less than rUK spent within Scotland on defence areas.

We manage to run our NHS way better than our English counterparts from the budget we get (not subsidised by England as previously stated and proven in links provided and which none of you are eager to discuss or read)

I know who is wasting my time and it ain't Nicola Sturgeon. Are any of you even reading what I write or are you just blanking it and going back to the DM headlines cause it's what you want to hear?

I give up, you clearly have your minds made up and no amount of evidence to the contrary will convince you otherwise.

Incidentally Turkey are years away from being in the EU. Cyprus and thei human rights issue aside they have failed to get anywhere near passing the 35 required areas to join and too many countries are against them joining. But I'm sure you're not interested in facts, just speculative and dramatic headlines from third rate newspapers. Knock yourselves out I'm clearly wasting my time trying to talk any sense to any of you

 

[popsdosh]

You lot will only believe what you want to believe that much is obvious.

Scotland pays 3.5 billion to the UK defence budget and gets 1.4 billion less than rUK spent within Scotland on defence areas.

We manage to run our NHS way better than our English counterparts from the budget we get (not subsidised by England as previously stated and proven in links provided and which none of you are eager to discuss or read)

I know who is wasting my time and it ain't Nicola Sturgeon. Are any of you even reading what I write or are you just blanking it and going back to the DM headlines cause it's what you want to hear?

I give up, you clearly have your minds made up and no amount of evidence to the contrary will convince you otherwise.

Incidentally Turkey are years away from being in the EU. Cyprus and thei human rights issue aside they have failed to get anywhere near passing the 35 required areas to join and too many countries are against them joining. But I'm sure you're not interested in facts, just speculative and dramatic headlines from third rate newspapers. Knock yourselves out I'm clearly wasting my time trying to talk any sense to any of you

I have just given you an official government document with up to date figures. So whos wrong here! And approved by SNP

 

[Alec Swan]

How is Scotland's income earned then? How does Scotland generate wealth and at a level sufficient to sustain self sufficiency?

Alec.

……..

Oil would just be an extra bonus

……..

Scotland pays 3.5 billion to the UK defence budget and gets 1.4 billion less than rUK spent within Scotland on defence areas.

We manage to run our NHS way better than our English counterparts from the budget we get (not subsidised by England as previously stated and proven in links provided and which none of you are eager to discuss or read) ……..

I give up, you clearly have your minds made up and no amount of evidence to the contrary will convince you otherwise.

…….. Knock yourselves out I'm clearly wasting my time trying to talk any sense to any of you

Can you support your argument and explain just how Scotland generates the wealth of which you speak? Can you explain which are the core industries which provide the £3.5 billion to support the UK Military? Can you explain where the money comes from and how it is earned which supports your health sector?

In short; Can you list for me the industries upon which Scotland is so reliant and from where your claimed for figures and facts are derived? The ship building industry and the coal industry have been abandoned, and shamefully in my view, the fishing industry rights were GIFTED away to the EU, and the list goes on and on. ……..

There are wonderful and far thinking Unis, but they don't in themselves generate much in the way of wealth, there is a whisky producing industry which I agree prospers, agriculture is in a sound state with beef and lamb production being on a sound basis for now, but with the well timed 'scares' the market over any 10 year period is mercurial, ……..

…….. and then there's Oil which you seem to feel is a bonus! Have you not noticed that crude oil prices have been in free-fall and that the risk and worry in and around Aberdeen over job security is in the minds of many? Has it occurred to you that the Scottish oil industry and the infrastructure which supports it is in the main owned by the oil companies and that they've invested millions to explore for a product which on the world market, is of low grade? To suggest that oil will ever support Scotland and that they'll become another Dubai, really doesn't make for any sense.

I'm sorry that others seem to ignore you and your claims, and I can only speak for myself, but your argument has little to support it in clear, evident and obvious fact, from what I can see.

Alec.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Have any of you actually opened any of the links provided to you?? They all state perfectly the answers to the questions you are posing?

I agree with shutterbug, it is clear that you want to keep your small minded political opinions and you clearly don't want to be educated and continue to look and act like political infants.

Continue your sturgeon bashing, makes no odds to us that you wish to believe newspapers bias journalism rather than facts handed to you on a plate. At least me have a leader who has a plan, not s bunch of silver spooned idiots run round trying to keep their trust fund.

 

[millikins]

Well I opened the link from popsdosh, the official Govt figures........

 

[Alec Swan]

Have any of you actually opened any of the links provided to you?? They all state perfectly the answers to the questions you are posing?

…….. not s bunch of silver spooned idiots run round trying to keep their trust fund.

Why we're so reliant upon the spin which it always seems is attached to 'statistics' I'm not sure, but we do. The answer, it seems to me, is that if Scotland could be self supporting and sufficient (with EU assistance of course!), and that if Scotland is a net contributor to the UK economy, then why hasn't Brussels welcomed Mrs Sturgeon with open arms? Perhaps the answer is that Brussels also raises an eyebrow to the claims.

With the certainty that you and the authors of the reports which you quote seem to have, why is it that the SNP aren't now marching on for a further Independence referendum? Clearly, the remainder of the UK are a drain upon Scotland's wealth generating abilities so with the blessing of possibly only one, spread your wings and fly!

Alec.

 

[Countryman]

Continue your sturgeon bashing, makes no odds to us that you wish to believe newspapers bias journalism rather than facts handed to you on a plate. At least me have a leader who has a plan, not s bunch of silver spooned idiots run round trying to keep their trust fund.

Have you heard of Theresa May? Certainly not a 'silver spooned idiot trying to keep her trust fund'...!

 

[popsdosh]

Have any of you actually opened any of the links provided to you?? They all state perfectly the answers to the questions you are posing?

I agree with shutterbug, it is clear that you want to keep your small minded political opinions and you clearly don't want to be educated and continue to look and act like political infants.

Continue your sturgeon bashing, makes no odds to us that you wish to believe newspapers bias journalism rather than facts handed to you on a plate. At least me have a leader who has a plan, not s bunch of silver spooned idiots run round trying to keep their trust fund.

All my answers for me are in my link which is official figures signed off by the scottish government they lead you to question what you are being fed in Scotland to keep you all running after her! As much as she would hate to hear it all the time the SNP are doing well in scotland we will always have a conservative majority south of the border so long may she continue. Of course that may be why the government are indeed feeding her ability to maintain her power.

 

[Buddy'sMum]

Well as I have found out the Scottish government have no budget for defence or at least dont account for it when making up the books so maybe she thinks the EU will supply it for free in exchange for Scotland gracing them with their membership.

Total nonsense. May I suggest you refer to Chapter 3 for details of defence spending in recent years:
http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0049/00495386.pdf

And for Alec who seems to think whiskey production is the only industry in Scotland:
http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0049/00493256.xls

 

[Buddy'sMum]

Have you heard of Theresa May? Certainly not a 'silver spooned idiot trying to keep her trust fund'...!

Or elected by the people!

 

[ROG]

The party leader needs only to have the backing of the parliament team they lead

That leader has already been elected to parliament by the public

This is why Corbyn is so silly - he does not have the backing of the team - Theresa May does

 

[ester]

Anyone that thinks they elect the prime minister in this country is a bit daft tbh

 

[Goldenstar]

Anyone that thinks they elect the prime minister in this country is a bit daft tbh

Of course they are .
And you don't want to rushing off having general elections every five minutes it damaging to the country expensive and takes politicians eyes off the ball .
Does anybody really think that with the acts in France, Brexit and the main buffer between us and IS madness in turmoil we should have a general election .
And that forgetting the small point that the PM has no right in law to call an election( thank the lib demos for that ) .

 

[Judgemental]

Of course they are .
And you don't want to rushing off having general elections every five minutes it damaging to the country expensive and takes politicians eyes off the ball .
Does anybody really think that with the acts in France, Brexit and the main buffer between us and IS madness in turmoil we should have a general election .
And that forgetting the small point that the PM has no right in law to call an election( thank the lib demos for that ) .

Goldenstar, how right you are, there cannot be a general Election until 2020 becasue of The Fixed Term Parliament Act.

I suppose it can be amended to hold an election using the inbuilt statutory instrument but I am not sure. Either way. the PM cannot simply decide to have a General Election as in days of yore.

Oh the halcyon days of Anthony Eden, Mamillan, Alec Douglas-Hume, Harold Wilson, Jim Callaghan, Edward Heath, Margaret Thatcher, John Major, Gordon Brown, who simply called an election when they fancied. Yes I know I have omitted one, he that is not mentioned on the Hunting Forum.

 

[millikins]

Total nonsense. May I suggest you refer to Chapter 3 for details of defence spending in recent years:
http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0049/00495386.pdf

And for Alec who seems to think whiskey production is the only industry in Scotland:
http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0049/00493256.xls

Now I read table 3.8 as indicating that almost the full amount of defense spending in Scotland is funded by the UK govt? Or have I read it incorrectly?

 

[ycbm]

Oh and meant to add, the oil only accounts for a fraction of Scotland's income

Even without oil, Scotland’s GDP per head is less than 1% lower than the rest of the UK’s

Oil would just be an extra bonus

But it's not GDP that pays the bills, it's tax revenues. What taxes does Scotland raise compared to its spending? And if Scotland is self sufficient why does the Barnett formula give you a higher amount per head of public spending than more deprived areas in other parts of the Union?

 

[Alec Swan]

……..

And for Alec who seems to think whiskey production is the only industry in Scotland:
http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0049/00493256.xls

I haven't read through the entire offering, but did rather smile at the fact that within Agriculture is included Fishing and Forestry!

What Fishing Industry would that be then? It was 'Gifted' to the EU by the UK. The Scottish Fishing Industry is dead, finished, gone. Quite shameful.

Forestry Exports? They can't really be serious. There is no Forestry Industry where the investments will ever be re-paid by any eventual product sale. Just about all the commercial forestry sites are no more than tax avoidance loopholes for those with money which they'd like to hang on to! The areas in Scotland which have been set aside for the production of timber had, what we see as 'vast' areas, been set aside for timber production but the set up costs and the extraction costs have run in to many £Billions, and our forestry land and though I applaud its existence, is no more than an amenity facility.

Agriculture? Beef and Lamb are viable exports as are the increasing value of top class breeding stock, but without the ESA and the vital LFA payments, they would be no longer. There is a continuing seed-potato supply system but the area involved is only the central basin between the Southern and Northern uplands.

There's a loosely listed Manufacturing and Construction section, and apart from the building of rigs for the oil industry, I'm wondering what they are. I'm more than happy to be wrong and have Scotland's manufacturing industry broken down in to the specific sectors, and explained to me. I'd like to know what Scotland produces and is sold abroad which brings in any sizeable revenue, apart from whisky.

Alec.

 

[Buddy'sMum]

Wasn't suggesting we should have a general election, I'm not that daft But it's a fact that the majority of unelected PMs have had a fairly dismal track record, with few managing to stay in the job very long.

 

[Alec Swan]

Buddy'sMum,

I'm not knocking Scotland, anything but. Westminster (indeed all the South) have neglected their duties and all but abandoned Scotland. There's a growing need for re-investment which will bring purpose and drive to the economy and put realistic hope in to future generations, rather than the flaccid existence which veils too large a part of too many Scottish communities.

Those Scots who want to be independent of England are fully entitled to 'want', but they have to consider the way forward. Those in the North of England are in the same boat, with areas being abandoned to recession, contributing nothing and being grudgingly maintained.

Without serious input from the South, then nothing will change, which is the crime of neglect.

Alec.

 

[Judgemental]

The following today from Reuters tells me three things.

1. Sturgeon is hopelessly delusional AND SHE IS ON AN IRRESPONSIBLE AND RECKLESS EGO TRIP.

2. There is no way Scotland can afford to stay in the EU and still be part of England, Wales and N. Ireland why should the UK put up with them, it will cost the UK. Bit like going to an Hotel and not being able to pay the bill.

3. If you give somebody a enough rope, eventually they will hang themselves.


"Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said she would not rule out the possibility of Scotland remaining in the European Union as well as part of Britain, which backed Brexit in a referendum mainly due to voters in England and Wales.

"When you are in unchartered territory you have effectively a blank sheet of paper in front of you then you have an opportunity to think things that may have been previously unthinkable," Sturgeon told the BBC's Andrew Marr Show.

Asked if Scotland could stay in the EU while England and Wales exited the bloc, Sturgeon said: "I don't think that should be ruled out at this stage."

Voters in Scotland rejected independence in 2014 but 62 percent backed remaining part of the EU in a referendum on June 23 in which the majority of voters across the four countries which make up the United Kingdom backed Brexit.

Sturgeon said after the Brexit result that a second independence referendum was now a possibilty, though she has also stressed that would not happen until it was clear most Scots were in favour of breaking from the United Kingdom.

In the wake of the shock vote, Sturgeon went on a flying visit to Brussels to meet EU executives and lawmakers.

According to sources, she discussed possible models for Scotland's future in the bloc, based on the fact that several states have some parts in the EU and some outside - as in the case of EU member Denmark and its non-EU territory Greenland.

Speaking about her visit to Brussels, Sturgeon said her welcome had been much warmer than during her visits in the run-up to the independence referendum.

"What I encountered in Brussels was a warmth, an openness a great sympathy to the position that Scotland find itself in," she said on Sunday.

Sturgeon also said Prime Minister Theresa May's comments on Friday, saying Britain would not trigger formal divorce talks with the EU until a "UK approach" had been agreed, gives her a strong bargaining position.

"That put Scotland in a very, very strong position, that puts me in a strong position." (THAT IS WHAT IT IS REALLY ALL ABOUT!!!! MRS STURGEONS EGO)

(Reporting by Karin Strohecker and Costas Pitas; Editing by Angus MacSwan)

More From Reuters"

 

[Alec Swan]

……..

Speaking about her visit to Brussels, Sturgeon said her welcome had been much warmer than during her visits in the run-up to the independence referendum.

"What I encountered in Brussels was a warmth, an openness a great sympathy to the position that Scotland find itself in," she said on Sunday.

……..

It would be interesting to hear of the official response from Brussels, wouldn't it?

I suspect that Mrs S is applying a degree of spin.

Alec.

 

[Judgemental]

It would be interesting to hear of the official response from Brussels, wouldn't it?

I suspect that Mrs S is applying a degree of spin.

Alec.

Alec that is certainly the impression given and why does she keep on about 'the warm of her reception'.

For the benefit of recent posters, let us not lose sight of the fact the reason this issue is on this forum - because Sturgeon and the SNP Welched on the Foxhunting deal and they will never be allowed to forget their duplicitous conduct.

At the end of the day she is going to be 'scuddered' herself. Bet our Scots friends did not know I understood such Glaswegian slang.

What are the people of Scotland going to say, when EU VAT is at sky high EU levels and likely to go up, to compensate because of our departure, when their brethren over in the border are paying next to nothing in terms of VAT on fuel and heating costs for example.

I reckon Mrs May is a very clever lady and "come into my parlor said the spider to the fly" springs to mind.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

The following today from Reuters tells me three things.

1. Sturgeon is hopelessly delusional AND SHE IS ON AN IRRESPONSIBLE AND RECKLESS EGO TRIP.

2. There is no way Scotland can afford to stay in the EU and still be part of England, Wales and N. Ireland why should the UK put up with them, it will cost the UK. Bit like going to an Hotel and not being able to pay the bill.

3. If you give somebody a enough rope, eventually they will hang themselves.


"Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said she would not rule out the possibility of Scotland remaining in the European Union as well as part of Britain, which backed Brexit in a referendum mainly due to voters in England and Wales.

"When you are in unchartered territory you have effectively a blank sheet of paper in front of you then you have an opportunity to think things that may have been previously unthinkable," Sturgeon told the BBC's Andrew Marr Show.

Asked if Scotland could stay in the EU while England and Wales exited the bloc, Sturgeon said: "I don't think that should be ruled out at this stage."

Voters in Scotland rejected independence in 2014 but 62 percent backed remaining part of the EU in a referendum on June 23 in which the majority of voters across the four countries which make up the United Kingdom backed Brexit.

Sturgeon said after the Brexit result that a second independence referendum was now a possibilty, though she has also stressed that would not happen until it was clear most Scots were in favour of breaking from the United Kingdom.

In the wake of the shock vote, Sturgeon went on a flying visit to Brussels to meet EU executives and lawmakers.

According to sources, she discussed possible models for Scotland's future in the bloc, based on the fact that several states have some parts in the EU and some outside - as in the case of EU member Denmark and its non-EU territory Greenland.

Speaking about her visit to Brussels, Sturgeon said her welcome had been much warmer than during her visits in the run-up to the independence referendum.

"What I encountered in Brussels was a warmth, an openness a great sympathy to the position that Scotland find itself in," she said on Sunday.

Sturgeon also said Prime Minister Theresa May's comments on Friday, saying Britain would not trigger formal divorce talks with the EU until a "UK approach" had been agreed, gives her a strong bargaining position.

"That put Scotland in a very, very strong position, that puts me in a strong position." (THAT IS WHAT IT IS REALLY ALL ABOUT!!!! MRS STURGEONS EGO)

(Reporting by Karin Strohecker and Costas Pitas; Editing by Angus MacSwan)

More From Reuters"

where is there anything wrong with any of that? All sounds perfectly reasonable to me. You are the one reading too much into what she's saying due to your inherent bias.