The SNP and Mrs Nicola Sturgeon

Judgemental said:
Hold hard a moment. What is wrong with Trident being based as Faslane. It employs 15,000 huge. Also a huge number of ancillary industries are benefiting Scotland.

Don't you want the money and benefits to the economy.
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it directly supports 520 civilian jobs (according to the MOD via a FOI request). Along with 3.5K Navy, 1.5K contractors and another 1.6K civilian jobs affected (but not directly relying upon) Faslane. Not quite 15,000. How long will these missiles actually be useful-how long will the technology be applicable?

FWIW I dont have strong feelings pro or anti NW. They might be a necessary evil, noone really knows for sure. But again, Scottish MPs voted categorically to not renew, Scotland doesn't want it-gives you about 20 years to find a new site. Why so reluctant?
 
MotherOfChickens said:
it directly supports 520 civilian jobs (according to the MOD via a FOI request). Along with 3.5K Navy, 1.5K contractors and another 1.6K civilian jobs affected (but not directly relying upon) Faslane. Not quite 15,000. How long will these missiles actually be useful-how long will the technology be applicable?

FWIW I dont have strong feelings pro or anti NW. They might be a necessary evil, noone really knows for sure. But again, Scottish MPs voted categorically to not renew, Scotland doesn't want it-gives you about 20 years to find a new site. Why so reluctant?
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I have never informed myself on the subject however, in the last 24 hours, I am told the Americans and French use the facility, for repairs and the like, because we have exceptional technical skills for which they are billed.

They, particularly the Americans like the location so I am told. Understandable.

Also I suppose it's out of the way of prying spying eyes.
 
and a thread about hunting without a noseband got nearly 2k views in a day, so I think you have some way to go/don't need to worry about an invasion of NS fans just yet....
 
Oh, well it will definitely be the biggest view rate on this thread, if you are only comparing to yourself you will always be the winner :D.
 
dibbin said:
... and therein lies the rub.
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Perhaps I should have used the word 'hitherto' but having informed myself, it is now clear your 'Nicola' is a complete failure.

1. Failed in the Trident vote.

2. Hopelessly out of her depth so far as the EU is concerned - to Euro or not to Euro, that is the question.

3. Failed on Independence.

4. Plainly upset Downing Street.

5. Upset us hunting chaps.

6. She exhibits a remarkable lack of patriotism.
 
Judgemental said:
Perhaps I should have used the word 'hitherto' but having informed myself, it is now clear your 'Nicola' is a complete failure.

1. Failed in the Trident vote.

2. Hopelessly out of her depth so far as the EU is concerned - to Euro or not to Euro, that is the question.

3. Failed on Independence.

4. Plainly upset Downing Street.

5. Upset us hunting chaps.

6. She exhibits a remarkable lack of patriotism.
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Those are all opinions. No informing necessary, it would appear. Patriotism, in particular, is wholly dependent on where you're standing.
 
ester said:
If that is the case why are you so worried about what she does and says?
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The SNP are disruptive on Sturgeon's gratuitous narcissistic juvenile instructions, so far as purely English & Welsh matters are concerned, which is not in the best interests of folk in England & Wales.

There are enough problems in the world without British subjects being childishly difficult.
 
dibbin said:
Those are all opinions. No informing necessary, it would appear. Patriotism, in particular, is wholly dependent on where you're standing.
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Patriotism means one does not try and infer with and or undermine our military capability. E.g Trident which is exactly what the SNP are doing and their wicked vote opposing Trident in the H of C last night, was a measure of their intent to damage the United Kingdom.
 
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Patriotism means pride in one's country. You can argue until you're blue in the face (and I suspect you will) but for many Scots, particularly those who support the SNP, that will always be Scotland and not the UK.
 
Judgemental said:
Patriotism means one does not try and infer with and or undermine our military capability. E.g Trident which is exactly what the SNP are doing and their wicked vote opposing Trident in the H of C last night, was a measure of their intent to damage the United Kingdom.
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the SNP aren't saying that you can't have it. again, why can't it be elsewhere?
 
Well yes, or maybe they just don't think there is a place for a armament....
I think you will find they were not the only MPs to vote against it, why is it so beyond the realms of possibility that they disagree with the existence of nuclear weapons at all, plenty of people do you know.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
the SNP aren't saying that you can't have it. again, why can't it be elsewhere?
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I simply do not understand why.

What is wrong with Faslane?

Scotland receives a wack of money - billions as a result of the base.

Why do the SNP want it elsewhere?

It is good to explain because there are millions of folk who think very badly of Sturgeon, the SNP and their policies as a result.

In effect therefore, they are not against a nuclear deterrent, so that ideology is not part of the thinking.

(My suspicions this is some whimsical notion that Sturgeon contrived at School rather like the anti-hunting arguments. Giving her some sort of platform to bounce off, rather than any tangible and meaningful practical contribution).
 
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MotherOfChickens said:
It doesn't matter that you don't understand why. One argument is that it s a big fat target-is that why you don't want it in the SW? With all the EU funding Cornwall will no longer be getting, perhaps they would like all the monies for it?
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I did wonder if that is what it was all about. If Faslane gets Nuked, we all get Nuked. We are a group of, poxy little islands 900 miles x 250 at best.

Aside from the fact there would be other Nukes, Plymouth being an obvious target etc remember Chernobyl and the Radiation Drift over the whole of the UK.

Don't worry about it.
 
I'm not worried, its one argument, its certainly not what its all about (ie some are fundamentally against nuclear weapons).
But the fact remains, if its so great and you want it-you can have it surely?
 
I think being located at faslane is something to do with the actual geology, deep water port or something, Im sure I read it somewhere,and no where else suitable ? Obviously there are deepwater ports elsewhere, but I think they are used for commercial shipping so you couldnt have a nuclear base alongside tourist vessels etc. I stand to be corrected though
 
You are correct Snuffles. Faslane is on the Gareloch. It's a deep water tidal loch with direct access to the sea. It's pretty well uniquely suited to being a submarine base. I can tell you it was also great fun to fish for mackerel from a canoe when I was ten! And am I the only forum member who has gone underwater in a nuclear sub? Even if we did stay in the loch :) ? It's one of the most striking memories of my childhood.
 
ycbm said:
You are correct Snuffles. Faslane is on the Gareloch. It's a deep water tidal loch with direct access to the sea. It's pretty well uniquely suited to being a submarine base. I can tell you it was also great fun to fish for mackerel from a canoe when I was ten! And am I the only forum member who has gone underwater in a nuclear sub? Even if we did stay in the loch :) ? It's one of the most striking memories of my childhood.
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Never been underwater but I have been show round one of the submarines they just voted to replace when she was commissioned .
They are absolutely huge when your up close and personal with one .
 
Goldenstar said:
Never been underwater but I have been show round one of the submarines they just voted to replace when she was commissioned .
They are absolutely huge when your up close and personal with one .
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I have been inside one of them. They may look huge on the outside, but they certainly aren't palatial on the inside. Quite the opposite of the Tardis, in fact.
 
fburton said:
I have been inside one of them. They may look huge on the outside, but they certainly aren't palatial on the inside. Quite the opposite of the Tardis, in fact.
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They are tiny were the crew live .
How anyone could stay in them for months and months is beyond me.
No daylight, no natural air all the air recycled with oxygen added but no smells taken out.
Yuk.
 
Assuming nuclear weapons have a positive effect on a country's security and world peace in general (I take it no one who is for Trident would take issue with that?), maybe Germany, a country in the Free West, should be encouraged and helped to join us in acquiring a Trident-like capability too. We could even share the costs and the benefits.

If they wouldn't want it, why not? Don't the same arguments and considerations apply to both our countries?

If having nuclear weapons gives us an advantage of some sort that we believe Germany shouldn't have, what is the nature of that advantage given the stated mode of use of such weapons?
 
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